soy lecithin

baxtecal said:
how many tbs / day of soy lecithin is good for GAINZ?
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There are a couple HUGE threads on this if you use the search feature : )

But to give you some cliff notes while I"m here:

- All soy granuals should have a standardized amt of PA in them ranging from 4-7%
- Brands Fearn and Optima are the two top favs (mind being Fearn)
- Anywhere from 3-5 tbsp will be good to go
- I like splitting my servings pre/post workout (exercise stressors improve the effects of PA)

You can check out more of my feedback (and that of others) in those big threads. One is titled "I'm on Phosphatidic Acid Ya'll"
 
kboxer7 said:
There are a couple HUGE threads on this if you use the search feature : )

But to give you some cliff notes while I"m here:

- All soy granuals should have a standardized amt of PA in them ranging from 4-7%
- Brands Fearn and Optima are the two top favs (mind being Fearn)
- Anywhere from 3-5 tbsp will be good to go
- I like splitting my servings pre/post workout (exercise stressors improve the effects of PA)

You can check out more of my feedback (and that of others) in those big threads. One is titled "I'm on Phosphatidic Acid Ya'll"
Click to expand...

thanks i appreciate it man! i got the NOW brand and idk if it even has any PA in it... i see PC & PI
 
baxtecal said:
thanks i appreciate it man! i got the NOW brand and idk if it even has any PA in it... i see PC & PI
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Yeah some brands don't list it, and even those that do its just an estimate. Since we know for sure that the range of PA is 4-7% or so, I always like to go off of the lowest estimate to ensure I'm getting enough PA.

Research has showed that more is better, with the studied dose at 750mg. I like 1250+mg a lot better.

EDIT: I'll add in that Phosphatidyl Serene also activates mTOR vis the same MOA (just to a lesser extent), and that can be bought in bulk fairly cheap. Just another option to think about or add in. Otherwise Fearn SL is like $7/tub. That is my go-to.
 
kboxer7 said:
Yeah some brands don't list it, and even those that do its just an estimate. Since we know for sure that the range of PA is 4-7% or so, I always like to go off of the lowest estimate to ensure I'm getting enough PA.

Research has showed that more is better, with the studied dose at 750mg. I like 1250+mg a lot better.

EDIT: I'll add in that Phosphatidyl Serene also activates mTOR vis the same MOA (just to a lesser extent), and that can be bought in bulk fairly cheap. Just another option to think about or add in. Otherwise Fearn SL is like $7/tub. That is my go-to.
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Fearn says 15G has 1200mg PA. But, if math is correct 4% of 15G is 600mg. 7% is a little under 1200mg.

I suppose 2 Pre and 2 post will get the job done?

Also, dosing on PS? Can that be taken with PA for an even better effect?
 
Woody said:
Fearn says 15G has 1200mg PA. But, if math is correct 4% of 15G is 600mg. 7% is a little under 1200mg.

I suppose 2 Pre and 2 post will get the job done?

Also, dosing on PS? Can that be taken with PA for an even better effect?
Click to expand...

Even though Fearn says 1200mg, individuals here at AM have reached out to the company and that is an "estimate" based off of general standardized concentrations found in all SL.

Two tbsp pre and two post is a favored starting point. you may eventually want to bump to 5 tbsp, but I don't think anything over that is worth the cost benefit ratio imo. Others have ran up to 8 tbsp, but that's a lot of calories lol.

As for dosing on PS, I'd use PA dosing as a guide.

PS can increase mTOR up to 588%, whilst PA can increase mTOR up to 957%. They both work via the same MOA, so adding more PA or PS will (to an extent) always increase mTOR more than less.

I just offer it as an addition because it can be bought in bulk fairly cheap and comes without those SL calories/fat grams.
 
kboxer7 said:
There are a couple HUGE threads on this if you use the search feature : )

But to give you some cliff notes while I"m here:

- All soy granuals should have a standardized amt of PA in them ranging from 4-7%
- Brands Fearn and Optima are the two top favs (mind being Fearn)
- Anywhere from 3-5 tbsp will be good to go
- I like splitting my servings pre/post workout (exercise stressors improve the effects of PA)

You can check out more of my feedback (and that of others) in those big threads. One is titled "I'm on Phosphatidic Acid Ya'll"
Click to expand...

If you had to choose, would taking PA be more beneficial pre or post workout?
 
jgntyce said:
If you had to choose, would taking PA be more beneficial pre or post workout?
Click to expand...

Pre because exercise stressors increase the effect of PA.

So anywhere from 30min - 1 hour pre
 
750mg is the studief dose of PA, you can get that (typically slightly more) at 2tbs. you sure as heck in all likelihood do not need 4-5 tbsp. Im not being a wise guy, and realize people have played around with this a lot, but im just trying to keep this in perspective that you dont need to mega dose the stuff.
 
squirtguns89 said:
750mg is the studief dose of PA, you can get that (typically slightly more) at 2tbs. you sure as heck in all likelihood do not need 4-5 tbsp. Im not being a wise guy, and realize people have played around with this a lot, but im just trying to keep this in perspective that you dont need to mega dose the stuff.
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While I agree with you that people do tend to get a little crazy with hyper dosing many supps, PA is not one of those where less is more.

I belive it was Danes who has spoken to one of the researchers and the Dr. literally said, "more is better" in terms of increasing mTOR to a greater extent, and also confirming no adverse health reasons not to go higher.
 
squirtguns89 said:
750mg is the studief dose of PA, you can get that (typically slightly more) at 2tbs. you sure as heck in all likelihood do not need 4-5 tbsp. Im not being a wise guy, and realize people have played around with this a lot, but im just trying to keep this in perspective that you dont need to mega dose the stuff.
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2 tbsp. might not actually be 750mg due to the range being 4-7%.....so 3 tbsp. is the minimum to make sure you can get the required amount in the study
 
kboxer7 said:
While I agree with you that people do tend to get a little crazy with hyper dosing many supps, PA is not one of those where less is more.

I belive it was Danes who has spoken to one of the researchers and the Dr. literally said, "more is better" in terms of increasing mTOR to a greater extent, and also confirming no adverse health reasons not to go higher.
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im very familiar with SL. Im just pointing it out actual scientific evidence of approximate dosing....as anything else else would be recommended. and i didnt point out that because i disagree with higher dosing, im simply stating lesser doses also work, and at that range, its affordable to dose as a staple for most anyone. (for giving people options).
ma70

thats a fair point. although 2tbsp is enough to get benefits imo just based on common sense. but there are also other mechanisms behind it that pure PA do not have. PC-->PA metabolism, that someone ive spoke to has brought up. I think its more likely people are getting more PA rather than less than what theyre thinking, of course im not implying thats bad.
 
squirtguns89 said:
im very familiar with SL. Im just pointing it out actual scientific evidence of approximate dosing....as anything else else would be recommended. and i didnt point out that because i disagree with higher dosing, im simply stating lesser doses also work, and at that range, its affordable to dose as a staple for most anyone. (for giving people options).
ma70

thats a fair point. although 2tbsp is enough to get benefits imo just based on common sense. but there are also other mechanisms behind it that pure PA do not have. PC-->PA metabolism, that someone ive spoke to has brought up. I think its more likely people are getting more PA rather than less than what theyre thinking, of course im not implying thats bad.
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I have mentioned before. Taken from a study i was reading. Other Phospholipids such as PI,PE, PC , LPA,PS has all similar impact on mTOR activating.
PA,PS and LPA had the biggest effect

Copy/paste from the study:
"Like the PA molecule (phosphatidylcholine (PC), phosphatidylserine (PS), phosphatidylethanolamine (PE) or phosphatidylinositol (PI)), have a similar ability to activate mTOR signaling"
 
kboxer7 said:
While I agree with you that people do tend to get a little crazy with hyper dosing many supps, PA is not one of those where less is more.

I belive it was Danes who has spoken to one of the researchers and the Dr. literally said, "more is better" in terms of increasing mTOR to a greater extent, and also confirming no adverse health reasons not to go higher.
Click to expand...

I asked Dr Wilson about doses. Would 3g or more be more beneficial than a dose of 750mg (used in the study).
He said they have data supporting higher doses would be more beneficial
 
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