someones gonna die

Sir Foxx said:
I think deception is inherent in a free market. To think otherwise is just naive. These companies have one goal, to make money. Once that fact is accepted, one can free themselves from the unproductive concern of:"Is this right?" or "Is this fair?". There are plenty of resources available to counter the erroneous from these entities.

As for the "kids", well that doesn't have anything to do with it. What, are we supposed to dumb down society because of youth? They shouldn't be messing with this stuff anyway, but if they are going to roll the dice, then the onus is on them to do it right. If they want to play, then they better be prepared.

I understand we have differing views here on this subject and I respect your view on this. I don't agree with it, but respect it.
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How about this then. If deception is alright then this is ok too. How about if my manufacturing plant is so full of contaminents that each tablet of M1T contains a crapload of carcinogens, and maybe some rat poison too just to make things nice. Then I can bottle it and instead of even calling it M1T, I'll say it is a brand new compound that is 10x more anabolic than anadrol and has no estrogenic or androgenic side effects.

So I take it everyone has the ability to test products for their purity. I guess everyone is a home chemist with years of technical skill. I think you need to rethink your stance.
 
Personally, I think every compound should be legal. If the government spent half as much money and time educating the populace to make informed decisions on what they put into their bodies instead of trying pushing thier somewhat ridiculous scare-tactic propaganda, we'd be a lot better off.

Then again, that's in a perfect world. Too many people just dont care enough about spending their time researching on their own, everyone just wants to pop a pill and get instant results. Bullshit advertising like the ad mentioned here just throws fuel on the fire.

These compounds shouldnt be available to kids at all. While I dont think they should be scheduled substances, something has to be done to keep them out of the hands of the still-developing teenager. Making PH's illegal to advertise and some funding spent on educating kids on the real effects of steroids and how they work in the body would probably be a great start.

I remember my old high school health class, and the movie they showed us about 'steroid abuse' - it was all about how you'd grow boobs and become a primordial, raging freak if you even thought about taking them.

I think the governments stance on drug use in general is the 'gateway drug'. It promotes ignorance. When curious kids actually try a substance and realize that there are positive effects associated with it, they forget all about the negatives, assuming that everything else they learned at school was an outright lie, and end up hurting themselves - for lack of education more than anything else.

A community like AM.com where research and open-minded thought are promoted and held in the utmost regard is a rarity. I dont know how many friends ive tried to turn onto this site and they just can deal with the information. They're too lazy to use the search engine. My friend who has been on 30 weeks of test and only gained about 10 lbs is one of them.

BV
 
well stated, Nullifidian. Puts it in perspective. I think it has been pretty effectively presented in this discussion, but that sums it up nicely, and uses a PH/PS example to which hopefully all can relate.
 
Nullifidian said:
How about this then. If deception is alright then this is ok too. How about if my manufacturing plant is so full of contaminents that each tablet of M1T contains a crapload of carcinogens, and maybe some rat poison too just to make things nice. Then I can bottle it and instead of even calling it M1T, I'll say it is a brand new compound that is 10x more anabolic than anadrol and has no estrogenic or androgenic side effects.

So I take it everyone has the ability to test products for their purity. I guess everyone is a home chemist with years of technical skill. I think you need to rethink your stance.
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No I don't. If some company did this, then the market would correct it. First by the consumers hearing about this companies misdeeds and no one buying their products, then by product liability for not putting in their product what the label claim is.
 
Sir Foxx said:
No I don't. If some company did this, then the market would correct it. First by the consumers hearing about this companies misdeeds and no one buying their products, then by product liability for not putting in their product what the label claim is.
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If that were true it would have already happened to 90% of the supplement market. For example, before ephedra was banned, pills had radically varying dosage levels, but they were flying off the shelves. Some of the ephedra products varied so much that some pills in any given bottle ahd no ephedra, and other pills had as much as 300%. The vast majority were underdosed, but when people took a couple overdosed pills in a row, they experienced adverse effects, as you would expect. After years of this happening, and some resulting even in death, the FDA had to step in to yank them.

Remember, the FDA yanked ephedra not because it in and of itself is dangerous. They yanked ephedra because standardization techniques were imprecise, and production facilities did not adequately regulate safe dosage in each pill. The American public though were mislead by the media into thinking the FDA yanked it because ephedra is dangerous, which as we know it isn't when taken in safe dosage. The FDA yanked it because it was impossible for a consumer to determine if they were taking a safe dosage no matter how informed they were.
 
"The FDA yanked it because it was impossible for a consumer to determine if they were taking a safe dosage no matter how informed they were."

This is the crux of the issue. 90% of the stuff on the shelves DO NOT MEET LABEL CLAIMS. There is no way for the consumer to know what he/she is taking. This is abyssmal.
 
I agree the market will tend to delete bad manufacturers but with this industry its harder to do. The products evolve so rapidly that here we are on this board trying like hell just to keep abreast of what is out there, judge what supps and protein are best and sort through all of the marketing (direct and indirect) BS.

As Will Brink reported once, he worked with a company where the motto of the CEO's was,

"We just throw **** at the wall and see what sticks."

He quit but the company lives on, preying on the ignorant. We do a decent job of policing this stuff ourselves and in a perfect world that's all that would be needed. But again we come to reality where the govt is always looking for something to do and it is the companies' responsibility to avoid this and in doing so protect their consumers. They failed in regards to PHs, they opened the door and let the Man in all whilst bickering amongst themselves about egos and who was going to pay for the PH lobby.
 
"They failed in regards to PHs, they opened the door and let the Man in all whilst bickering amongst themselves about egos and who was going to pay for the PH lobby."

This is 100% the truth.

I think Sir Foxx might say (not talking for you here, bro!) we also failed by continuing to purchase from them...and I agree, to an extent (not that this excuses their behavior).

I mean...who buys enough of those retarded "Muscle Mags" to keep them in business? Someone is buying them...There are four different choices at every supermarket. And we all know they're chock full of total decptive bullshit.

It's easier said than done, though...I think WalMart engages in some really shitty business practices...but when it comes to a $9 oil change, I look the other way...so I'm part of the problem, to an extent.
 
Brodus said:
It's easier said than done, though...I think WalMart engages in some really shitty business practices...but when it comes to a $9 oil change, I look the other way...so I'm part of the problem, to an extent.
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wow, $9?

i pay ~40 at pennzoil :frustrate
 
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