some ideas please

[benmayro]

i am a junior getting ready for football in the fall. i am 5ft 8in. i started lifting in december at 170lbs, bench 185, squat 300, and deadlift 385. yesterday was maxout day for football. i weighed in at 185, benched 265, squated 385 and deadlift 460(hexbar its what coach makes us use). those are good gains but at february maxout i was 180 benched 245, squated 375 and dwadlift 445. what can i do to expidite my gains, i cant/wont use to intense sups because of highschool sports rule. i am on right now a mas gainer only

 

[kingk0ng]

You'll want to try what Joe DeFranco calls Westside for Skinny Bastards.

Westside is the conjugate method, which is used by the strongest powerlifters in the world. It has been said the best way to train for overall performance is dynamic, repetition and maximum effort work.

Repetition effort builds muscular endurance, dynamic effort builds muscular speed strength/power and maximum effort builds muscular strength.

The routine you'll want to use is as follows.

MONDAY – Max-Effort Upper Body
TUESDAY – Dynamic-Effort Lower Body
WEDNESDAY – Off
THURSDAY – Repetition Upper Body
FRIDAY – Max-Effort Lower Body
SATURDAY – Off
SUNDAY – Off

​

MONDAY – Max-Effort Upper Body​

1. Max-Effort Exercise – work up to a max set of 3-5 reps in one of the following exercises:​

• Thick bar or regular barbell bench press​
• Barbell floor press​
• Rack lockouts / Invalid Link Removed​
• Incline barbell bench press (regular grip or close grip)​
• Close-grip bench press (index finger on smooth part of bar)​
• Weighted chin-ups​
• Board presses or foam presses​
• Chain bench press (*recommended for not-so-skinny bastards)​
• Band bench press (*recommended for not-so-skinny bastards)​
• Invalid Link Removed (*recommended for not-so-skinny bastards)​

1. Supplemental Exercise – perform 2 sets of max reps in one of the following exercises. (Choose a weight you can perform for 15-20 reps on the 1st set. Use the same weight for both sets and rest 3-4 minutes between sets).​

• Flat DB bench press (palms in or out)​
• Incline DB bench press (palms in or out)​
• DB floor press (palms in)​
• Barbell push-ups (wearing weighted vest)​
• Blast strap push-ups (wearing weighted vest)​
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• Invalid Link Removed​
• Chin-ups (don’t perform these if you chose to do weighted chin-ups for your first exercise)​

1. Horizontal pulling / Rear delt superset - Superset one exercise from “Group 1” with one exercise from “Group 2.” Perform 3-4 supersets of 8-12 reps of each exercise.​

Group 1​

• DB rows​
• Barbell rows​
• Seated cable rows (various bars)​
• T-bar rows​
• Chest supported rows​

Group 2​

• Rear delt flyes​
• Scarecrows​
• Face pulls​
• Seated DB “power cleans”​
• Band pull-aparts​

1. Traps – Perform 3 – 4 sets of 8-15 reps of one of the following exercises:​

• DB shrugs​
• Barbell shrugs​
• Safety squat bar shrugs​
• Behind the back barbell shrugs​

1. Elbow flexor exercise - Perform 3-4 sets of 8-15 reps of one of the following exercises:​

• Barbell curls (regular or thick bar)​
• DB curls (standing)​
• Seated Incline DB curls​
• Hammer curls​
• Zottmann curls​
• Iso-hold DB curls​

TUESDAY – Dynamic-Effort Lower Body​

1. Jump training – choose one of the following exercises and perform 5-8 sets of 1-3 jumps:​

• Invalid Link Removed​
• Vertical jumps​
• Broad jumps​
• Hurdle hops (jump over hurdle and land on ground)​
• Invalid Link Removed​
• Invalid Link Removed​
• Invalid Link Removed​

1. Unilateral exercise (w/ added ROM) – choose one of the following exercises and perform 2-3 sets of 8-10 reps:​

• Invalid Link Removed (holding DB’s or with a barbell)​
• Barbell reverse lunge, front foot elevated​
• Barbell reverse lunge w/ knee lift (front foot elevated)​
• Step-ups (box height slightly above knee)​

1. Hip extension exercise – choose one of the following exercises and perform 3 sets of 8-12 reps:​

• 45-degree hyperextensions​
• Reverse hyperextensions​
• Pull-throughs​
• Swiss ball back bridge + leg curl​
• Glute-ham raises​
• Romanian deadlift​
• Forward sled dragging, upright posture (3 sets of 30 yards)​

1. Weighted Abdominals – choose one of the following exercises and perform 4 sets of 10-15 reps:​

• DB side bends​
• Offset barbell side bends​
• Barbell Russian twists​
• Low cable or band pull-ins​
• Hanging leg raises​
• Weighted Swiss ball crunches​
• Spread-eagle sit-ups (holding DB over chest)​
• Standing sit-ups (using a band or a high pulley)​

THURSDAY – Repetition Upper Body​

1. Repetition Exercise – choose one of the following exercises and perform 3 sets of max reps OR 4 sets of 12-15 reps:​

• Flat DB bench press (palms in or out)​
• Incline DB bench press (palms in or out)​
• DB bench press on Swiss ball (palms in or out)​
• DB floor press (palms in)​
• Push-up variations​
• Chin-up variations​
• Invalid Link Removed​

1. Vertical pulling / Rear delt superset - Superset one exercise from “Group 1” with one exercise from “Group 2.” Perform 3-4 supersets of 8-12 reps of each exercise.​

Group 1​

• Lat pulldowns (various bars)​
• Chin-ups (don’t perform these if you chose to do chin-ups for your first exercise)​
• Straight arm pulldowns​

Group 2​

• Rear delt flyes​
• Scarecrows​
• Face pulls​
• Seated DB “power cleans”​
• Band pull-aparts​

1. Medial delts – choose one of the following exercises and perform 4 sets of 8-12 reps:​

• DB lateral raises​
• L-lateral raises​
• Cable lateral raises​
• DB military press​
• DB side press​

1. Traps / Arms superset - Superset one exercise from “Group 1” with one exercise from “Group 2.” Perform 3 supersets.​

Group 1 (Perform 8-10 reps)​

• DB shrugs​
• Barbell shrugs​
• Safety squat bar shrugs​
• Behind the back barbell shrugs​

Group 2​

• Barbell curls (8-10 reps each set)​
• DB curls (8-10 reps each set)​
• Seated Incline DB curls (8-10 reps each set)​
• Hammer curls (8-10 reps each set)​
• Zottmann curls (8-10 reps each set)​
• Iso-hold DB curls (8-10 reps each set)​
• DB triceps extensions (10-15 reps each set)​
• Triceps pushdowns (15-25 reps each set)​

1. Grip / Forearms – choose one of the following exercises:​

• Wrist roller (2-3 sets of 2-3 reps)​
• Thick bar or heavy DB holds (2-3 sets of max time)​
• Plate pinch gripping (2-3 sets of 2-3 reps)​
• Captains of Crush gripper (3 sets of max reps each hand)​
• Rice digs (3 timed sets)​

*DON’T train your grip/forearms if you’re planning on deadlifting the next day.​

FRIDAY – Max-Effort Lower Body​

1. MAX-EFFORT LIFT – work up to a max set of 3-5 reps in one of the following exercises:​

• Invalid Link Removed (regular bar, Invalid Link Removed, cambered bar, buffalo bar)​
• Invalid Link Removed (regular bar, safety squat bar, cambered bar, buffalo bar)​
• Straight bar deadlifts (traditional style, sumo style)​
• Invalid Link Removed​
• Rack pulls (partial deadlifts)​
• Invalid Link Removed – (remember, your max-effort lifts don’t necessarily have to be limited to just barbell exercises!)​

*Bands and/or chains can be incorporated into all of the above exercises for the not-so-skinny bastards reading this article.​

1. UNILATERAL MOVEMENT – choose one of the following exercises and perform 3 sets of 6-12 reps:​

• Bulgarian split squat variation (holding DB’s or with a barbell)​
• Reverse lunge variation​
• Step-up variation​
• Walking lunges​
• Backward sled drags (3 sets of 30 yards)​
• Forward sled drags, 45-degree angle (3 sets of 30 yards)​

1. HAMSTRING / POSTERIOR CHAIN MOVEMENT – choose one of the following exercises and perform 3 sets of 8-12 reps:​

• 45-degree hyperextensions​
• Reverse hyperextensions​
• Pull-throughs​
• Swiss ball back bridge + leg curl​
• Glute-ham raises​
• Romanian deadlifts​
• Forward sled dragging (upright posture)​

1. Ground-based, high-rep abdominal circuit – Example: Invalid Link Removed. Perform 10-20 reps of each exercise and go through the circuit 2-3 times. Rest 1-2 minutes between circuits.
   
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   ​

​

 

[HondaV65]

Hopefully you will be lifting all your life. I started 30 years ago and wish to hell this book had been available then ...

Invalid Link Removed

I'd rather meet and have a conversation with Mark Rippetoe - than to have one with President Obama.

When you first start - you have no foundation. There's no need to do complicated "isolation" moves. If you want to increase gains you need to lift heavier to pack on more muscle - and for that you need good old fashioned barbell training ... COMPOUND MOVES.

Curls for biceps? Why? Do pullups instead - works the biceps and the lats at the same time.

The Squat and Deadlift are the two most valuable moves to pack on mass - but they are potentially dangerous also. That's why I recommend Rippetoe's book - he goes into more detail on each exercise than you'll ever want to know.

Here's a great lead-in from his book ...

The human body functions as a complete system – it works that way, and it likes to be trained that way. It doesn’t like to be separated into its constituent components and then have those components exercised separately, since the strength obtained from training will not be utilized in this way. The general pattern of strength acquisition must be the same as that in which the strength will be used. The nervous system controls the muscles, and the relationship between them is referred to as “neuromuscular.” When strength is acquired in ways that do not correspond to the patterns in which it is intended to actually be used, the neuromuscular aspects of training have not been considered. Neuromuscular specificity is an unfortunate reality, and exercise programs must respect this principle the same way they respect the Law of Gravity.

Rippetoe, Mark (2012-01-13). Starting Strength (Kindle Locations 164-170). The Aasgaard Company. Kindle Edition.

 

[kingk0ng]

Hopefully you will be lifting all your life. I started 30 years ago and wish to hell this book had been available then ...

Invalid Link Removed

I'd rather meet and have a conversation with Mark Rippetoe - than to have one with President Obama.

When you first start - you have no foundation. There's no need to do complicated "isolation" moves. If you want to increase gains you need to lift heavier to pack on more muscle - and for that you need good old fashioned barbell training ... COMPOUND MOVES.

Curls for biceps? Why? Do pullups instead - works the biceps and the lats at the same time.

The Squat and Deadlift are the two most valuable moves to pack on mass - but they are potentially dangerous also. That's why I recommend Rippetoe's book - he goes into more detail on each exercise than you'll ever want to know.

Here's a great lead-in from his book ...

Rippetoe is a great author. The only issue I have with his writings is I think you should pull on the horizontal plane if you push on it. Bench presses are prefound for scapula protraction and internal humeral rotation and in order to defeat the imbalance you'd need to train rows, which retracts the scapula and stimulates the external rotators. With that said I think rows should be a staple with any program in which bench presses are a staple as well.

 

[benmayro]

Thanks for the reply guys, and king kong that's a great workout I think I might try it! That book sounds extremely helpful

 

[benmayro]

I have been doing the buckeye bench, what are you guys opinion on it?

 

[42 and 6]

I wish I would have figured this out in the early days when I had trouble gaining size:

Rest more.

Specifically your rest (recovery) is often neglected because it's not glamorized like workout routines and diets. There's also more money to be made in hawking diets/foods/supplements and workout vids/books/etc. than telling someone that they need a nap, or an extra hour of sleep a night. But the strength and power "triangle" so to speak, is made up quite equally of workout, diet, and recovery. SS and WSB are strong suggestions, definitely look into them. Just don't forget to get more rest.

 

[benmayro]

I work out Mon. Wed. And Friday... I run 2-3miles tues and sat. Do you think it's to much.. Just for saying sleep, mon-thurs I normally hit the hay around 10 and wake up at six thirty. Friday and Saturday is a little Iffy though.

 

[ZiR RED]

I work out Mon. Wed. And Friday... I run 2-3miles tues and sat. Do you think it's to much.. Just for saying sleep, mon-thurs I normally hit the hay around 10 and wake up at six thirty. Friday and Saturday is a little Iffy though.

There's no reason to run 2-3 miles for football. You won't cover this distance in a game, and if you move at that speed during a game you'll find yourself on your ass or the bench.

Start doing some running that is football appropriate. Maybe 150 yard shuttles on tuesday and some 20's or 30's and agility drills on saturday.

And you might also want to check out 5/3/1 for football by Jim Wendler

Br

 

[benmayro]

that is really smart, ima gunna break out the old track spikes haha. i used to love track until i realized how much i hated it haa

 

[machorox123]

There's no reason to run 2-3 miles for football. You won't cover this distance in a game, and if you move at that speed during a game you'll find yourself on your ass or the bench.

Start doing some running that is football appropriate. Maybe 150 yard shuttles on tuesday and some 20's or 30's and agility drills on saturday.

And you might also want to check out 5/3/1 for football by Jim Wendler

Br

Conditioningnis important but so is endurance.. Back in my hgh school football days we usta run 2 miles to warm up for practice

 

[ZiR RED]

Conditioningnis important but so is endurance.. Back in my hgh school football days we usta run 2 miles to warm up for practice

And how did that benefit you in practice or on the field?

I'd be willing to place money on it that if you cut that 2 miles down to 1/4 mile and put more emphasis onto a dynamic warm up with a focus on mobility, the team would perform better as a whole both in practice and on the field.

Is a baseline level of endurance needed to play football - yes. But do you need to improve upon that baseline aerobic fitness to improve performance - no. Its taken some time, but finally high school coaches are starting to realize that there is no need to place such an emphasis on aerobic work, and also that testing the mile run as a measure of fitness for football is entirely useless.

Br

 

[machorox123]

And how did that benefit you in practice or on the field?

I'd be willing to place money on it that if you cut that 2 miles down to 1/4 mile and put more emphasis onto a dynamic warm up with a focus on mobility, the team would perform better as a whole both in practice and on the field.

Is a baseline level of endurance needed to play football - yes. But do you need to improve upon that baseline aerobic fitness to improve performance - no. Its taken some time, but finally high school coaches are starting to realize that there is no need to place such an emphasis on aerobic work, and also that testing the mile run as a measure of fitness for football is entirely useless.

Br

Im not sure of the direct correlation of long distance running to football. Im sure there are more efficent ways of increasing endurance with movements that will transfer over to the actual sport but long distance running is a definitive way to increase muscle endurance and in the off season theres nothing wrong with it..2-3 miles is easily covered in one game especially i high school football when a lot of the better guys play offense an defense..again i cant tell you exactly how exactly running transfera over to football but in my personal experience my high school team made it to the semi finals with two captains out with knee injuries me being one of them

 

[kingk0ng]

And how did that benefit you in practice or on the field?

I'd be willing to place money on it that if you cut that 2 miles down to 1/4 mile and put more emphasis onto a dynamic warm up with a focus on mobility, the team would perform better as a whole both in practice and on the field.

Is a baseline level of endurance needed to play football - yes. But do you need to improve upon that baseline aerobic fitness to improve performance - no. Its taken some time, but finally high school coaches are starting to realize that there is no need to place such an emphasis on aerobic work, and also that testing the mile run as a measure of fitness for football is entirely useless.

Br

^ This is true.

The type of cardio you should be doing preparing for cardio is HIIT style. You're going to want to focus on agility and sprinting moreso than long steady cardio.

The reasons a lot of football teams lose games is they are weak in too many fundamentally important areas like sprint work, dynamic training, mobility, muscular strength, muscular endurance, neuromuscular coordination they'd be much more successful on the field.

 

[ZiR RED]

Im not sure of the direct correlation of long distance running to football. Im sure there are more efficent ways of increasing endurance with movements that will transfer over to the actual sport but long distance running is a definitive way to increase muscle endurance and in the off season theres nothing wrong with it..2-3 miles is easily covered in one game especially i high school football when a lot of the better guys play offense an defense..again i cant tell you exactly how exactly running transfera over to football but in my personal experience my high school team made it to the semi finals with two captains out with knee injuries me being one of them

I'm sorry to hear about your injury.

You are right, there's nothing wrong with distance running per say, its just not the type of endurance that you need to improve upon significantly to succeed in sports like football, or basketball, soccer, or field hockey for that matter. You need a base, but once you have that base, you need to work to improve performance limiting fitness.

These performance limiting factors will vary based upon the position. For example, a performance limiting fitness factor for a wide out might be a 40 yard dash. An endurance limiting factor for a wide out might be the ability to run 20 x 60 yard sprints under a certain time with just 40 seconds of rest in between.

Focusing on running 2-3 miles several times a week will improve neither of these.

Br