soft drinks tax

Not arguing one way or the other here but are you saying that you are ok with 1 in 10 in these situations not being able to receive medical care?

I would say thank you, but I won't give the appearance you are taking sides. But Ill reaffirm this. The need for reform comes from too many falling through the cracks. When dealing with a population, or even a smaller subsection of population, 1 in 10 equates to alot.
 
Nice try, Conservative leaning libertarian. Which the health care passage is a direct assault on liberties.

Please explain. Is the tax taking your liberties? I don't think so. Besides the tax, what will change for you if you already have coverage. Don't tell me how this will effect the populace, explain how it will effect DAdams91982. Prove to me this isnt crying over taxes.
 
Please explain. Is the tax taking your liberties? I don't think so. Besides the tax, what will change for you if you already have coverage. Don't tell me how this will effect the populace, explain how it will effect DAdams91982. Prove to me this isnt crying over taxes.

How about one big fundamental one... CHOICE... in America, now you cannot CHOOSE to not carry health insurance. Now every American is mandated to purchase a for profit service.

And it IS crying over taxes. Every tax in history is progressive, and now we are piling them on. How is this not a socialism type ideal? The rich are taxed unfairly and unequally to fund the poor. How is that not getting more and more people on the government dole, expanding the powers of the US Federal Government.
 
And it IS crying over taxes. Every tax in history is progressive, and now we are piling them on. How is this not a socialism type ideal? The rich are taxed unfairly and unequally to fund the poor. How is that not getting more and more people on the government dole, expanding the powers of the US Federal Government.

You are only looking at the first iteration of the outcome. What you are not factoring in is that the rich become rich because of the poor - or at least because of the infrastructure that allows that particular distribution of wealth. They cannot exist without them - the pie is only so big.

Another way of putting it is that rich people profit more from the economic structure than do poor people so perhaps they should pay a proportionate 'user fee.'

Think taxes are unfair? Another way to solve the problem of people not being able to afford insurance would be to just jack the minimum wage up - say to like $25/hr. Now entry level workers don't have to be on the dole and can buy insurance. The rich will still end up losing money because of price increases from the higher labor costs.
 
You are only looking at the first iteration of the outcome. What you are not factoring in is that the rich become rich because of the poor - or at least because of the infrastructure that allows that particular distribution of wealth. They cannot exist without them - the pie is only so big.

Another way of putting it is that rich people profit more from the economic structure than do poor people so perhaps they should pay a proportionate 'user fee.'

Think taxes are unfair? Another way to solve the problem of people not being able to afford insurance would be to just jack the minimum wage up - say to like $25/hr. Now entry level workers don't have to be on the dole and can buy insurance. The rich will still end up losing money because of price increases from the higher labor costs.

You are not factoring the the American way of thinking. If you do not like your situation, change it. There is not one person locked in their way of life. Is it harder for others to achieve more? Sure, but there is a reason people would immigrate to the US, at first it was so they could work hard and achieve the American dream. Now people immigrate here because they know they will be taken care of regardless.

I came from a family well below the poverty line, that includes 3 other siblings, and some how, some way each of us attended college (Myself through the Military) and made something of ourselves. The do it for yourself way of thinking is lost in a generational gap somewhere.
 
How about one big fundamental one... CHOICE... in America, now you cannot CHOOSE to not carry health insurance. Now every American is mandated to purchase a for profit service.

A public option would have done away with the profit service, or at least competed with it. I can't speak for your view, but the conservatives fought a public option.

And it IS crying over taxes. Every tax in history is progressive, and now we are piling them on. How is this not a socialism type ideal? The rich are taxed unfairly and unequally to fund the poor. How is that not getting more and more people on the government dole, expanding the powers of the US Federal Government.
I agree with Nitrox on this one. I am making well for myself (as well as I can for so recently out of school), but I did this because of the chances I was given. I am glad you were able to overcome barriers, but to say that anyone can is simply not true.


As a side note, I just got off the phone with a client that has now applied to three seperate health insurance companies and denied by all three. His preexisting is completely controlled, and quite literally a problem of the past. The could have chosen to give him an exclusion rider, but didn't. They could have chosen to give him a rate increase (which he was more then happy to accept), but they didn't. Now he is on his own. He will most likely if something happens to him aquire some level of debt before the government kicks in on his behalf. Then at that point he will drain from a pool that is currently (pre-bill) not funded enough. Get rid of preexisting conditions and he would be paying a higher rate and be happy with his insurance. Instead, he will now drain the government. Your taxes are paying for this even though he does have an income. Why? Because in the time before the bill takes effect (2014 is Preexisting removal) he has no choice. When he could have purchased a policy and been happy leaving your taxes in the government.
 
Wow another one literally after hanging up the phone. Do you cover people with diabetes? Unfortuantely that is an auto decline from every private carrier. Another way your taxes will be spent in the current state, when he could have been charged a higher amount if pre-existings were excluded.
 
A public option would have done away with the profit service, or at least competed with it. I can't speak for your view, but the conservatives fought a public option.
HATED the public option. At least the way they presented it, to pay the public option, everyone was taxed, even if you chose not to use the public option. Better ideas on the table.

I agree with Nitrox on this one. I am making well for myself (as well as I can for so recently out of school), but I did this because of the chances I was given. I am glad you were able to overcome barriers, but to say that anyone can is simply not true.
This is your opinion. People come to America everyday and make something of themselves through hard work. Again, if a 5 person single parent family that lived on under 22K a year can make it through life in a good way in America, anyone can.

As a side note, I just got off the phone with a client that has now applied to three seperate health insurance companies and denied by all three. His preexisting is completely controlled, and quite literally a problem of the past. The could have chosen to give him an exclusion rider, but didn't. They could have chosen to give him a rate increase (which he was more then happy to accept), but they didn't. Now he is on his own. He will most likely if something happens to him aquire some level of debt before the government kicks in on his behalf. Then at that point he will drain from a pool that is currently (pre-bill) not funded enough. Get rid of preexisting conditions and he would be paying a higher rate and be happy with his insurance. Instead, he will now drain the government. Your taxes are paying for this even though he does have an income. Why? Because in the time before the bill takes effect (2014 is Preexisting removal) he has no choice. When he could have purchased a policy and been happy leaving your taxes in the government.

I think you are taking my thoughts as I am against reform all together, which is just not the case. You can pile on sob stories all day long. I am for removing the preexisting conditions, implementing TORT reform, setting up industry co-op (Restraunt group rates instead of Arbys group rates).

There are a TON of ideas floating around that A) doesnt gut the current system we have all together, and B) can be implemented one at a time to see how it works. We didnt have to pass 3K pages all at once, it only shows one thing, a power grab and a way to generate a voting base by placing them on the government dime.
 
Wow another one literally after hanging up the phone. Do you cover people with diabetes? Unfortuantely that is an auto decline from every private carrier. Another way your taxes will be spent in the current state, when he could have been charged a higher amount if pre-existings were excluded.

That is ironic you say an auto decline, because somehow my Aunt has diabetes and just recently changed her private health insurance plan. And each state has a insurance risk plan that many people can get on.
 
Ok I am going to do the same thing that I did with Zero in a religion discussion.

Am is not the place for this. I have nothing against you and still have respect for you as a fellow member here. Let's just agree to disagree and keep this site semi- On Topic.
 
Wow another one literally after hanging up the phone. Do you cover people with diabetes? Unfortuantely that is an auto decline from every private carrier. Another way your taxes will be spent in the current state, when he could have been charged a higher amount if pre-existings were excluded.

...And the debate comes full circle. Good thing that all the diabetes causing junk food producers are still able to make their profits. Being diabetic myself I am glad that I live north of the border.
 
Ok I am going to do the same thing that I did with Zero in a religion discussion.

Am is not the place for this. I have nothing against you and still have respect for you as a fellow member here. Let's just agree to disagree and keep this site semi- On Topic.

Agreed. Still a good discussion overall. No disrespect intended or taken. It is only a difference of opinion and upbringing.
 
Yup, those evil companies.

Just had to get that last dig in? :smashfreakB: It's ok though. I've got an MBA so it is somewhat ironic for me to say that, so touche.

But yeah there is no right or wrong in this argument. It really comes down one's degree of self-interest and risk tolerance. If one wants to work for a Manhattan penthouse and a Maybach to drive then that person probably favors a lower tax free market system - he/she will just buy whatever coverage is needed. Whereas someone who just wants to put in 35-40 hours per week, rent an apartment, and drive an inexpensive domestic, and not have to worry about unforseen health problems probably prefers a better safety net. Depends on where you want to be.
 
Wait, I know we are letting this settle down, but you at least have to admit this is cleverly written:

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock, powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US Department of Energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the National Weather Service of the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. I watch this while eating my breakfast of US Department of Agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the Food and Drug Administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US Congress, and kept accurate by the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the US Naval Observatory, I get into my National Highway Traffic Safety Administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads built by the local, state, and federal Departments of Transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the Environmental Protection Agency, using legal tender issued by the Federal Reserve Bank. On the way out the door, I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US Postal Service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After work, I drive my NHTSA bar back home on DOT roads, to a house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and Fire Marshal’s inspection, and which has not been plundered of all its valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Administration and post of FreeRepublic.com and Fox News forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.
 
Oh because this country has been 100% constitutional. Oh wait, the Patriot Act.

The United States loves to give this image of being so high and mighty, and better then other countries. However, people die because they can't afford procedures, or better yet, their health insurance finds some damn loophole to make a profit by saying no to saving their life. You can enjoy your cadillac plan until you something drastic happens, and they loophole you as well. In case you think health care is fine in the US, check this:

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Oh wtf? France leading the world in health care? They have socialized medicine?!? What communists.

America: LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happines.





I don't have any problem with abortions. I don't consider it life yet (It can not sustain life on it's own). I don't like the idea of federal taxes paying for abortions, and I would love to personally shoot people who use abortion as a form of birth control. In the same sense, I will lose no sleep over it's inclusion in the bill. Republican candidates on fox last night were discussing the bishops' views on the bill. I DONT GIVE A **** what any religious party has to say about anything related to politics or law. The consitution provides a seperation of church and state. The bishops should not be our moral police after they **** some young boy.
The constitution has no provisions regarding a right to privacy. I am against the health care bill, and patriot act (which I believe was named such to take away from how obtrusive it really is).
As for the legality of the health care bill, the house and Senate are the lawmakers, the judiciary interprets those laws. The lawmakers can pass pretty much anything they want- that is their power.
The constitution provides no provisions for freedom to choose health care provider.
Again, I don't agree with the above-mentioned act and bill-- just stating the facts.
 
Yeah, I read a few older ones... with Grad school and work, I just do not have the time for the "new" and improved 3000 page one... even though I hear it is a page turner.
I opened it with adobe reader and searched for specific words with the word finder tool- access, account, guns- and others. I also looked at pages posted on sites "___ pg xwx-" and some news sites were posting completely bogus information!
 
The constitution has no provisions regarding a right to privacy. I am against the health care bill, and patriot act (which I believe was named such to take away from how obtrusive it really is).
As for the legality of the health care bill, the house and Senate are the lawmakers, the judiciary interprets those laws. The lawmakers can pass pretty much anything they want- that is their power.
The constitution provides no provisions for freedom to choose health care provider.
Again, I don't agree with the above-mentioned act and bill-- just stating the facts.

Yeah, privacy is actually a new concept in the grand scheme of things.

With the way you stated the previous, it sounds like congress is the end all be all, when that is not exactly the case. Judiciary does interpret the laws, but it also finds if the laws past by congress is constitutional. Article 1, section 8 defines the powers of congress, and it doesn't state anything about allowing for congress to enforce the American citizen to purchase a for profit service, essentially nationalizing a for profit industry. This is where the constitutionality of the bill become hazy. The health care fight is far from over. I assume we will see an end result being different than what it is now, they already have to re vote in the house because of unconstitutional amendments to the change package.
 
I opened it with adobe reader and searched for specific words with the word finder tool- access, account, guns- and others. I also looked at pages posted on sites "___ pg xwx-" and some news sites were posting completely bogus information!

In the current one? Like I said, I do not know exactly what is in the current one. Just the basics and the requirements of the American people.
 
WITHIN THE FIRST YEAR OF ENACTMENT

• Insurance companies will be barred from dropping people from coverage when they get sick. Lifetime coverage limits will be eliminated and annual limits are to be restricted.
• Insurers will be barred from excluding children for coverage because of pre-existing conditions.
• Young adults will be able to stay on their parents' health plans until the age of 26. Many health plans currently drop dependents from coverage when they turn 19 or finish college.
• Uninsured adults with a pre-existing conditions will be able to obtain health coverage through a new program that will expire once new insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014.
• A temporary reinsurance program is created to help companies maintain health coverage for early retirees between the ages of 55 and 64. This also expires in 2014.
• Medicare drug beneficiaries who fall into the "doughnut hole" coverage gap will get a $250 rebate. The bill eventually closes that gap which currently begins after $2,700 is spent on drugs. Coverage starts again after $6,154 is spent.
• A tax credit becomes available for some small businesses to help provide coverage for workers.
• A 10 percent tax on indoor tanning services that use ultraviolet lamps goes into effect on July 1.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2011

• Medicare provides 10 percent bonus payments to primary care physicians and general surgeons.
• Medicare beneficiaries will be able to get a free annual wellness visit and personalized prevention plan service. New health plans will be required to cover preventive services with little or no cost to patients.
• A new program under the Medicaid plan for the poor goes into effect in October that allows states to offer home and community based care for the disabled that might otherwise require institutional care.
• Payments to insurers offering Medicare Advantage services are frozen at 2010 levels. These payments are to be gradually reduced to bring them more in line with traditional Medicare.
• Employers are required to disclose the value of health benefits on employees' W-2 tax forms.
• An annual fee is imposed on pharmaceutical companies according to market share. The fee does not apply to companies with sales of $5 million or less.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2012

• Physician payment reforms are implemented in Medicare to enhance primary care services and encourage doctors to form "accountable care organizations" to improve quality and efficiency of care.
• An incentive program is established in Medicare for acute care hospitals to improve quality outcomes.
• The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which oversees the government programs, begin tracking hospital readmission rates and puts in place financial incentives to reduce preventable readmissions. WHAT HAPPENS IN 2013
• A national pilot program is established for Medicare on payment bundling to encourage doctors, hospitals and other care providers to better coordinate patient care.
• The threshold for claiming medical expenses on itemized tax returns is raised to 10 percent from 7.5 percent of income. The threshold remains at 7.5 percent for the elderly through 2016.
• The Medicare payroll tax is raised to 2.35 percent from 1.45 percent for individuals earning more than $200,000 and married couples with incomes over $250,000. The tax is imposed on some investment income for that income group.
• A 2.9 percent excise tax in imposed on the sale of medical devices. Anything generally purchased at the retail level by the public is excluded from the tax.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2014

• State health insurance exchanges for small businesses and individuals open.
• Most people will be required to obtain health insurance coverage or pay a fine if they don't. Healthcare tax credits become available to help people with incomes up to 400 percent of poverty purchase coverage on the exchange.
• Health plans no longer can exclude people from coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
• Employers with 50 or more workers who do not offer coverage face a fine of $2,000 for each employee if any worker receives subsidized insurance on the exchange. The first 30 employees aren't counted for the fine.
• Health insurance companies begin paying a fee based on their market share.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2015

• Medicare creates a physician payment program aimed at rewarding quality of care rather than volume of services.

WHAT HAPPENS IN 2018

• An excise tax on high cost employer-provided plans is imposed. The first $27,500 of a family plan and $10,200 for individual coverage is exempt from the tax. Higher levels are set for plans covering retirees and people in high risk professions.
(Reporting by Donna Smith; Editing by David Alexander and Eric Beech)
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It is so much more refreshing to be here with people who can intelligently debate and present valid, well-thought out points than on somewhere like youtube. I know this is off topic, but just wanted to say I love all you guys. (In a platonic way).

I see the issue this way. By taxing soda, junk/fast food and the like, you're not so much FORCING our nation into health, but moreso leveling the playing field. One of the reasons people enjoy things like soda and fast food is because it's inexpensive and convienient. By slapping it with a tax, hopefully, what's left of the brain of the consumer will tell them to start buying and eating things that are healthier.
Of course, that's in a perfect world. In reality, people will just bitch, throw up some kind of protest, and the companies that are being taxed will think of some kind of loophole or some way to call their food "health food" and evil will reign supreme once again.
 
Haha.. i love some of this ****... a tanning tax? Now Americans can't choose to tan without a penalty.

And my favorite of all...

You can stay on your parents health plan till 26? SERIOUSLY. This is why we have a lazy generation coming up..... ask your grandparents if they ever had any Tweeners in their generation.

****ing useless.
 
It is so much more refreshing to be here with people who can intelligently debate and present valid, well-thought out points than on somewhere like youtube. I know this is off topic, but just wanted to say I love all you guys. (In a platonic way).

I see the issue this way. By taxing soda, junk/fast food and the like, you're not so much FORCING our nation into health, but moreso leveling the playing field. One of the reasons people enjoy things like soda and fast food is because it's inexpensive and convienient. By slapping it with a tax, hopefully, what's left of the brain of the consumer will tell them to start buying and eating things that are healthier.
Of course, that's in a perfect world. In reality, people will just bitch, throw up some kind of protest, and the companies that are being taxed will think of some kind of loophole or some way to call their food "health food" and evil will reign supreme once again.

How do you not call this egregious taxation? Were does it stop? Let's not forget that taxes are progressive in nature, ie cigarettes. If you want to tax food, then tax all food, this is a way to punch only certain companies in the eye, and effectively telling Americans what or how to live their life. You see it as "Come on, it is just a tax on soda", review the governments past and you will see this isn't just a slippery slope we are approaching, but an all out cliff.
 
Haha.. i love some of this ****... a tanning tax? Now Americans can't choose to tan without a penalty.

And my favorite of all...

You can stay on your parents health plan till 26? SERIOUSLY. This is why we have a lazy generation coming up..... ask your grandparents if they ever had any Tweeners in their generation.

****ing useless.

ALthough I don't like the idea of this being a pernament thing, this does add to health care costs for businesses, in this climate many coming out of colleges can not find work and are still busting tables at their local restaurant. This is the only situation that I feel may have caused this to be justifiable.

The Tanning should have been a seperate bill, labeled the Jersey Shore Act of 2010. As for my opinion of it I can't really care to much. I don't tan. I can see where it is taking away free choice, but it would go the same as the junk food tax, it's not good for you.
 
ALthough I don't like the idea of this being a pernament thing, this does add to health care costs for businesses, in this climate many coming out of colleges can not find work and are still busting tables at their local restaurant. This is the only situation that I feel may have caused this to be justifiable.

The Tanning should have been a seperate bill, labeled the Jersey Shore Act of 2010. As for my opinion of it I can't really care to much. I don't tan. I can see where it is taking away free choice, but it would go the same as the junk food tax, it's not good for you.

I can see the point, but when do we make people grow up now? I can see why in college you are afforded your parents insurance longer, but for God sake, this is a cradle to grave mentality. Most college students should be busting their ass senior year to find a job, and if not, if they are bussing tables, shouldnt this new legislation afford them healthcare through employers anyway. This gives a sense of keeping people on the tit longer, making future generations even lazier.
 
How do you not call this egregious taxation? Were does it stop? Let's not forget that taxes are progressive in nature, ie cigarettes. If you want to tax food, then tax all food, this is a way to punch only certain companies in the eye, and effectively telling Americans what or how to live their life. You see it as "Come on, it is just a tax on soda", review the governments past and you will see this isn't just a slippery slope we are approaching, but an all out cliff.

Ok, very valid point, but take cigarettes for example. Why is there a tax on cigarettes? Because of the labor it takes to grow and manufacture the tobacco? Because of importation? No. If you do the research, you'll find that the more populated an area, the more tax gets slapped on the cigarettes, why is that? It's because of children. Children's exposure to secondhand smoke. That is the reason for cigarette tax. FACT.
The premise of this, is that everyone knows by now that cigarettes are harmful to people. Are soda and fast food not? When someone says that all fatty foods are getting slapped with a tax, it's probably because they're fatty. Don't automatically assume that it's just the government's way of shafting you one more way. I know it's hard to believe, but most of the time, there's a method to the madness. I'm not saying I condone it or I'm an advocate of everything the Government does, but I also think that they're not quite as evil as the public, conspiracy theorists and opinionated people make them out to be.
 
Ok, very valid point, but take cigarettes for example. Why is there a tax on cigarettes? Because of the labor it takes to grow and manufacture the tobacco? Because of importation? No. If you do the research, you'll find that the more populated an area, the more tax gets slapped on the cigarettes, why is that? It's because of children. Children's exposure to secondhand smoke. That is the reason for cigarette tax. FACT.
The premise of this, is that everyone knows by now that cigarettes are harmful to people. Are soda and fast food not? When someone says that all fatty foods are getting slapped with a tax, it's probably because they're fatty. Don't automatically assume that it's just the government's way of shafting you one more way. I know it's hard to believe, but most of the time, there's a method to the madness. I'm not saying I condone it or I'm an advocate of everything the Government does, but I also think that they're not quite as evil as the public, conspiracy theorists and opinionated people make them out to be.
So you are saying that regulating where someone can smoke cannot fix the problem? I understand the rationale of why on cigarettes, you are not breaking any ground here. Instead of make it work for everyones benefit another way, they slap a tax, bar none.

Now on to soda and fast food, again, same concept.

With your premise, if something is bad for people, just tax the hell out that and more. Considering the Stamp act and Boston Tea party, I would think Americans were against such egregious taxation.

And lets not get this twisted, 99% of what comes out of DC is not for the good of the people, it is for a grab of power. If it was so good, why is the President, Congress, and congresses workers exempt from such a bright shining piece of legislation?
 
.. Because they're the president, congress, and the congressional workers. Plain and simple. If you were the leader of the free world, to tell me that you and your cronies wouldn't get "hooked up" would be a bold-faced lie. It happens in literally EVERY American sector, public and private. You could just as easily argue how the makers of supplements dont have to go to a store to buy them.
I love how people like to shout and curse at DC for doing things that don't suit their particular interests or for doing something wrong, but dont even take into account how much they get handed to them on a silver platter every day because of Washington. I suppose it's man's inherent egocentric nature.
 
.. Because they're the president, congress, and the congressional workers. Plain and simple. If you were the leader of the free world, to tell me that you and your cronies wouldn't get "hooked up" would be a bold-faced lie. It happens in literally EVERY American sector, public and private. You could just as easily argue how the makers of supplements dont have to go to a store to buy them.
I love how people like to shout and curse at DC for doing things that don't suit their particular interests or for doing something wrong, but dont even take into account how much they get handed to them on a silver platter every day because of Washington. I suppose it's man's inherent egocentric nature.

Haha... nice argument. Because they are above the American people, they don't have to live the way American people live.

After that little gem, you really have no platform in this argument.
 
Uh.. yeah, basically that's what I'm saying. The president lives in the white house with 24/7 physical and mechanical security, a nuclear defense, a nuclear bunker, 5 star lodging and dining, and access to anything he could possibly want, and he own personal protection who would step in front of a bullet.... He is basically the most powerful man on earth. Last I checked, the average American does not live like that. Since when has this been a new secret? It's public knowledge.

Does a metal worker have to pay for the custom mods he makes on his own motorcycle?
Does a doctor have to pay a copay for giving himself a diagnosis?
Does a chef have to charge a menu price for eating his own creation?
Does a lawyer have to pay himself for representing himself?
Does an accountant have to charge himself for doing his own taxes?
Does an IT have to pay for setting up his own computer network?
Religious institutions are not taxable, and that tax over a period of several years could literally wipe out the budget deficit. What do they contribute to the American people?
So, the president and congress shouldn't have access to things at a discounted rate or not be taxed at all? Why not? The military doesn't.
 
Haha.. i love some of this ****... a tanning tax? Now Americans can't choose to tan without a penalty.

And my favorite of all...

You can stay on your parents health plan till 26? SERIOUSLY. This is why we have a lazy generation coming up..... ask your grandparents if they ever had any Tweeners in their generation.

****ing useless.
Can't sat I'm with you on all of your points, but I have to agree here!
 
Uh.. yeah, basically that's what I'm saying. The president lives in the white house with 24/7 physical and mechanical security, a nuclear defense, a nuclear bunker, 5 star lodging and dining, and access to anything he could possibly want, and he own personal protection who would step in front of a bullet.... He is basically the most powerful man on earth. Last I checked, the average American does not live like that. Since when has this been a new secret? It's public knowledge.

Does a metal worker have to pay for the custom mods he makes on his own motorcycle?
Does a doctor have to pay a copay for giving himself a diagnosis?
Does a chef have to charge a menu price for eating his own creation?
Does a lawyer have to pay himself for representing himself?
Does an accountant have to charge himself for doing his own taxes?
Does an IT have to pay for setting up his own computer network?
Religious institutions are not taxable, and that tax over a period of several years could literally wipe out the budget deficit. What do they contribute to the American people?
So, the president and congress shouldn't have access to things at a discounted rate or not be taxed at all? Why not? The military doesn't.

Wow, you are comparing apples to refrigerators here. Good enough to force an American to live, but not good enough to use themselves. I was more aiming at congress than the president, even though.

As for the military, you do realize their pay correct? I served for many years, and and if you think their health care is free, then you my friend need to revisit your premise, especially with the smallest raise they just received.

Let's also look at a General in the military, they are in the waiting room right there with the lowest of ranks waiting for the same care that everyone else receives in the military.
 
I was in the Navy SWCC program for 5 years, I'm no stranger to the military my friend.

The president has his own hospital, doctor and surgeon, so that point is basically moot, capitol hill has it's own medical center, and many congressional members have their own physicians.

The military's medical program is not free, in the traditional sense, that's true, however, how much do you think he or she pays for surgery, or medication, or an organ transplant? I guarantee you it's not the 60,000 dollars a civilian would pay.. it's, well.. nothing. Granted, at least in my experience, the care itself was, somewhat.... substandard, but I can't really complain.

The government is in the business of making laws and looking out for the interests of it's people(In a perfect world), and for the most part, they do. That's the reason everyone here and the majority of the people in your neighborhood are educated, clothed, employed, safe, etc. Now I realize that it's not the case for many many people, and that's unfortunate, but both fortunate and unfortunate people need to help themselves past a certain point.
Look, as I said, I'm not an advocate of everything the government does, but in my experience, I am grateful for what I have and the opportunities I've been given. This is a great country to live in, regardless of how what the media portrays every day or the problems we face. Here, just like everywhere else on earth, certain people, (i.e. the wealthy or powerful) are more advantageous than others. You wanna go do something about it? Go try. I almost guarantee you won't succeed. You can spend your time bitching and complaining that "it's not fair" if you want to. In other countries, doing so would result in death by firing squad, so go figure.
 
I was in the Navy SWCC program for 5 years, I'm no stranger to the military my friend.

The president has his own hospital, doctor and surgeon, so that point is basically moot, capitol hill has it's own medical center, and many congressional members have their own physicians.

The military's medical program is not free, in the traditional sense, that's true, however, how much do you think he or she pays for surgery, or medication, or an organ transplant? I guarantee you it's not the 60,000 dollars a civilian would pay.. it's, well.. nothing. Granted, at least in my experience, the care itself was, somewhat.... substandard, but I can't really complain.

The government is in the business of making laws and looking out for the interests of it's people(In a perfect world), and for the most part, they do. That's the reason everyone here and the majority of the people in your neighborhood are educated, clothed, employed, safe, etc. Now I realize that it's not the case for many many people, and that's unfortunate, but both fortunate and unfortunate people need to help themselves past a certain point.
Look, as I said, I'm not an advocate of everything the government does, but in my experience, I am grateful for what I have and the opportunities I've been given. This is a great country to live in, regardless of how what the media portrays every day or the problems we face. Here, just like everywhere else on earth, certain people, (i.e. the wealthy or powerful) are more advantageous than others. You wanna go do something about it? Go try. I almost guarantee you won't succeed. You can spend your time bitching and complaining that "it's not fair" if you want to. In other countries, doing so would result in death by firing squad, so go figure.

And I mostly agree with your sentiments.

And I too love this country, but can be quite unhappy about how it is being run and the direction it is taking. The whole do as I say, but not as I do mentality is wrong in every way, and corruption ensues.

I am grateful for my opportunities I am given, and thankful for the freedom to express my opinion, thankful for my freedom to protest atrocities that are appropriated by congress. If some feel congress has their best interest in mind, good for you, I am happy you are happy. Obviously a predominant amount of people do not feel that way and are vocal about it.

So to your point about dissenting in another country people would be killed. It's a damn good thing I live in America and invoking my freedoms to express my distaste for current affairs.
 
The military's medical program is not free, in the traditional sense, that's true, however, how much do you think he or she pays for surgery, or medication, or an organ transplant? I guarantee you it's not the 60,000 dollars a civilian would pay.. it's, well.. nothing. Granted, at least in my experience, the care itself was, somewhat.... substandard, but I can't really complain.

This is a good point though... there is choice all in this statement. The doctors that do the surgeries and care are employed by the military at a rate the military deems appropriate. And the patients knew the care would be substandard, but yet still signed the dotted line. Everything here is saying someone is choosing to be paid less and take worse care on their own accord. This is something not afforded in the new law.
 
I'm all for getting more Americans in shape... but am afraid they could easily go nuts on what they define as junk food.
 
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