soft drinks tax

[VolcomX311]

Arnold is my childhood hero. That being said I don't trust him. I'd like to think he's been brain washed, rather than thinking he's evil. Global Warming is not caused by humans. I went to my governor's site(Martin O'Malley) and guess what, it's filled with **** like we have to stop climate change. Just lovely. Whats next, are they going to have a fart tax?

I haven't trusted that bastard the moment he stepped into office and became the worst governor we've had in terms of high, abusive taxation. Especially as hard as he campaigned against it. Granted, everyone who runs make false claims and promises, but he went 180 and became thee worst we've had in a New York minute.

I loved him as a bodybuilder, too. I still do and try to block out his political image, but I'd have to say I dislike him 90% of the time.

 

[DerickVonD]

I haven't trusted that bastard the moment he stepped into office and became the worst governor we've had in terms of high, abusive taxation. Especially as hard as he campaigned against it. Granted, everyone who runs make false claims and promises, but he went 180 and became thee worst we've had in a New York minute.

I loved him as a bodybuilder, too. I still do and try to block out his political image, but I'd have to say I dislike him 90% of the time.

Well Arnold is very war on the right. He was all buddy buddy with the Bushes. Like I said I just hope he's been brainwashed and isn't as evil as he comes off.

 

[VolcomX311]

Well Arnold is very war on the right. He was all buddy buddy with the Bushes. Like I said I just hope he's been brainwashed and isn't as evil as he comes off.

Buddy with the Bushes, married to a Kennedy. I think he's probably confused, heh. I think Arnold may have started on the right, but now he's just right of far left. His Global Vorming and allowing the highest tax raise in California history last year makes him just right of far left.

Truth be told, California's Republicans are not very Republican as a general rule. Our new candidates for Governor make me raise an eye brow.

 

[Nitrox]

I have to admit I find this thread somewhat amusing. Complaining about 'abusive' taxation. Come to Canada or, better yet, look into the Scandanavian countries if you want to see high taxes. Ironically, most rank higher on the HDI than the US does...

 

[Nitrox]

I think Arnold may have started on the right, but now he's just right of far left. His Global Vorming and allowing the highest tax raise in California history last year makes him just right of far left.

Truth be told, California's Republicans are not very Republican as a general rule. Our new candidates for Governor make me raise an eye brow.

Umm wasn't your state facing Bankruptcy? Desperate times require desperate measures...

 

[HereToStudy]

Actually it has a shred of truth. Read the bill, access to accounts is, or at least was in the senate bill. I only speak from actually reading the provision.

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/your_bank_account_is_safe_running_down_the_latest.php

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13249326

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/

Of course you will not learn this on Chris Matthews.

Thanks for proving my point from the other thread that you like to start ****. I don't watch Chris Matthews. But since we are going by stereotype, I assume then that you get your fact checking from Beck?

 

[DAdams91982]

I have to admit I find this thread somewhat amusing. Complaining about 'abusive' taxation. Come to Canada or, better yet, look into the Scandanavian countries if you want to see high taxes. Ironically, most rank higher on the HDI than the US does...

Those countries were meant to be more socialist in nature, the social programs are abundance in those countries. The US was not meant for social programs, hence the upheaval of taxes.

 

[VolcomX311]

I have to admit I find this thread somewhat amusing. Complaining about 'abusive' taxation. Come to Canada or, better yet, look into the Scandanavian countries if you want to see high taxes. Ironically, most rank higher on the HDI than the US does...

Every reason why we scream & bitch about heading down this road. Complain & fight it when something can still be done, not when you get there and it's bust. I've never been to Canada or Scandanavia, so I'm not making a personal judgment call on them as Nations, I'm just addressing the tax issue. Mulletsoldier seems to love the Canadian system and he's an intelligent guy, but speaking from my So Cal point of view. High taxation becomes even higher when like I said, we support a HUUUUUGE, not so minority, "minority population," who take from a pot they don't pitch into.

 

[DAdams91982]

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/your_bank_account_is_safe_running_down_the_latest.php

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_13249326

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/jul/30/e-mail-analysis-health-bill-needs-check-/



Thanks for proving my point from the other thread that you like to start ****. I don't watch Chris Matthews. But since we are going by stereotype, I assume then that you get your fact checking from Beck?

Nice, I see you can google... I just googled the exact same thing and came up with "Facts" of the opposing view.

Like it said, it was possibly in past version of the bill... My notes on it (Yes, from ME reading it and not taking your talking heads views on it) state that page 59 gives direct access to your bank account through a National Health ID card.

So quit pointing me to your talking points and discuss the bill for what it is, assuming you have not read any of the bills proposed, quit reposting hearsay.

 

[DAdams91982]

Umm wasn't your state facing Bankruptcy? Desperate times require desperate measures...

And the California Government should have been dissolved and started form scratch without every last man woman and child on the government dole.

 

[VolcomX311]

Umm wasn't your state facing Bankruptcy? Desperate times require desperate measures...

Bankruptcy from out of control government spending, not a natural course in the face of appropriate governing. Sacramento wouldn't cut from themselves to save our state financially, but look for silly @$$ things to tax. As an example, we're considering taxing Car accidents and house fires if Police and Fire have to come out. If you get in a crash, you get to have a bill from the police dept. and fire dept., up to $8-$10,000.00 (depending how many number of responders were at the scene) while still paying the regular taxes that are supposed to support this service.

We've also made "green" taxes into law based off of completely fraudulent studies. You have no idea how out of hand So Cal has become.

 

[DAdams91982]

Bankruptcy from out of control government spending, not a natural course in the face of appropriate governing. Sacramento wouldn't cut from themselves to save our state financially, but look for silly @$$ things to tax. As an example, we're considering taxing Car accidents and house fires if Police and Fire have to come out. If you get in a crash, you get to have a bill from the police dept. and fire dept., up to $8-$10,000.00 (depending how many number of responders were at the scene) while still paying the regular taxes that are supposed to support this service.

We've also made "green" taxes into law based off of completely fraudulent studies. You have no idea how out of hand So Cal has become.

Wow, that goes even deeper than I have researched. The responders should not be levying extra taxes for care. That is just nuts.

A city here in St. Louis wants to do the same thing for a newly opened Casino, since they have a few calls there, they want to impose extra taxes for fire and police on them, on TOP of the extra 1 million they will see a year.

 

[HereToStudy]

21 ‘‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
22 order to allow automated reconciliation with the
23 related health care payment and remittance ad24
vice;

4 ‘‘(E) require the use of a standard elec
5 tronic transaction with which health care pro
6 viders may quickly and efficiently enroll with a
7 health plan to conduct the other electronic
8 transactions provided for in this part; and

Copied from bill. Seems to call for electronic fund transfer, at least my interpretation. I am also a health insurance agent, and can comment that this is pretty standard on all policies.

 

[DAdams91982]

21 ‘‘(C) enable electronic funds transfers, in
22 order to allow automated reconciliation with the
23 related health care payment and remittance ad24
vice;

4 ‘‘(E) require the use of a standard elec
5 tronic transaction with which health care pro
6 viders may quickly and efficiently enroll with a
7 health plan to conduct the other electronic
8 transactions provided for in this part; and

Copied from bill. Seems to call for electronic fund transfer, at least my interpretation. I am also a health insurance agent, and can comment that this is pretty standard on all policies.

Again, which bill? There have been over 40 versions now. But even reading this portion, how can you think the idea will not be warped? Look at the commerce clause now, that is grossly abused to bend the way any politician wants it too.

 

[Nitrox]

High taxation becomes even higher when like I said, we support a HUUUUUGE, not so minority, "minority population," who take from a pot they don't pitch into.

If you are referring to the 'illegal' immigrant workers then that population actually does pitch in. They do so by providing labor at below the legal market rate. This props up the lifestyle of legal citizens that earn above entry-level wages (of course if you wanted a career as a fruit picker then you're screwed). The government knows this and that is why decisive action is not taken.

A dollar is only worth what it can get you. Too often people only see a tax increase as a loss of what economists call 'utility.' However, if the taxes go to things such as more police officers, better equipment for fire fighters, better schools, etc then society, on average, DOES get some utility back.

 

[DAdams91982]

If you are referring to the 'illegal' immigrant workers then that population actually does pitch in. They do so by providing labor at below the legal market rate. This props up the lifestyle of legal citizens that earn above entry-level wages (of course if you wanted a career as a fruit picker then you're screwed). The government knows this and that is why decisive action is not taken.

A dollar is only worth what it can get you. Too often people only see a tax increase as a loss of what economists call 'utility.' However, if the taxes go to things such as more police officers, better equipment for fire fighters, better schools, etc then society, on average, DOES get some utility back.

The problem with illegals is the inability to tax their wages. Illegals are paid under the table, so therefore Uncle sam does not dip in their pockets, but pulls the benefits. So they dont add to the welfare pot, but they can sure enough draw from it.

 

[Nitrox]

Bankruptcy from out of control government spending, not a natural course in the face of appropriate governing.

I think you need to do your homework. Most of the states facing Bankruptcy are in that position because of the global credit crisis which was caused by unregulated financial markets over-leveraging the global economy. When the bubble burst, aggregate income tanked and along with it government revenues. The reason why Arnold made the largest tax increase in history is because the country was in the worst recession since the great depression.

 

[HereToStudy]

Again, which bill? There have been over 40 versions now. But even reading this portion, how can you think the idea will not be warped? Look at the commerce clause now, that is grossly abused to bend the way any politician wants it too.

This can pretty much be said about almost any thing in a bill. And I do not disagree with you that as long as politicians continue on with their history of greed, I am sure that they would try to bend this statement. But given my history in the industry and the documentation of it in this example, I don't see this as the intent. As I said out of our growing daily number of health clients in this agency (company independent), 85%+ pay through EFT.

The problem with illegals is the inability to tax their wages. Illegals are paid under the table, so therefore Uncle sam does not dip in their pockets, but pulls the benefits. So they dont add to the welfare pot, but they can sure enough draw from it.

I couldn't agree with you more on this issue.

 

[DAdams91982]

This can pretty much be said about almost any thing in a bill. And I do not disagree with you that as long as politicians continue on with their history of greed, I am sure that they would try to bend this statement. But given my history in the industry and the documentation of it in this example, I don't see this as the intent. As I said out of our growing daily number of health clients in this agency (company independent), 85%+ pay through EFT.



I couldn't agree with you more on this issue.

I am not trying to disagree with you on intent, and I find insurance companies to be very black and white, I have yet to have a problem with you. I will not disagree with you on how an insurance company works, obviously you know more than I on that subject. An insurance company doesn't have the luxury of making any law say what they wish to benefit them, unfortunately our fearless government does, and has a pretty brash history of doing just that. As I said about the commerce clause, for ****s sake, they use the commerce clause for gun control even though it is a second amendment right.

I am disgusted with everyone on both sides of the isle, and personally practice a libertarian style.

 

[VolcomX311]

The problem with illegals is the inability to tax their wages. Illegals are paid under the table, so therefore Uncle sam does not dip in their pockets, but pulls the benefits. So they dont add to the welfare pot, but they can sure enough draw from it.

The welfare pot, public schooling, ER services, Fire & Police services, Mandated car insurance, so if you're hit by an illegal you're just $hit out of luck, I'll equate high crime levels to poverty status, not an ethnicity, nonetheless, a strong element in high crime, costly process of the court system, the outrageous prices of our prison system...... just to name a few.

 

[Nitrox]

The problem with illegals is the inability to tax their wages. Illegals are paid under the table, so therefore Uncle sam does not dip in their pockets, but pulls the benefits. So they dont add to the welfare pot, but they can sure enough draw from it.

I don't think you're getting it. Let say you want to hire some laborers. A US citizen is going to cost you $15/hr and an illegal is going to cost you $7.50/hr (just making these up - I dont know what Cali rates are). For your dollar, you can get twice as much labor from an illegal. So unless the 'illegal' labor costs 'the system' more than the difference ($7.50/hr) which the tax payers have to cover then you are no worse off.

This does include the argument in the case of labor shortages in which case there is even less incentive for the government to take action (maybe you would have to pay $20/hr for labor).

This is why I stressed that it is important to consider what you get for your dollar, not how many dollars that you have.

 

[VolcomX311]

I think you need to do your homework. Most of the states facing Bankruptcy are in that position because of the global credit crisis which was caused by unregulated financial markets over-leveraging the global economy. When the bubble burst, aggregate income tanked and along with it government revenues. The reason why Arnold made the largest tax increase in history is because the country was in the worst recession since the great depression.

So appropriate governing lead California to be the "most broke" of all the states? and needing such an aggressive measure. We were in trouble BEFORE the housing crises, that just adding a bolder to the cliff we were already falling off of.

 

[DAdams91982]

I don't think you're getting it. Let say you want to hire some laborers. A US citizen is going to cost you $15/hr and an illegal is going to cost you $7.50/hr (just making these up - I dont know what Cali rates are). For your dollar, you can get twice as much labor from an illegal. So unless the 'illegal' labor costs 'the system' more than the difference ($7.50/hr) which the tax payers have to cover then you are no worse off.

This does include the argument in the case of labor shortages in which case there is even less incentive for the government to take action (maybe you would have to pay $20/hr for labor).

This is why I stressed that it is important to consider what you get for your dollar, not how many dollars that you have.

Again, I do not think you understand the Cali abundance of social programs. The difference is still astronomical.

 

[DAdams91982]

The welfare pot, public schooling, ER services, Fire & Police services, Mandated car insurance, so if you're hit by an illegal you're just $hit out of luck, I'll equate high crime levels to poverty status, not an ethnicity, nonetheless, a strong element in high crime, costly process of the court system, the outrageous prices of our prison system...... just to name a few.

Actually, ignore my last post, this one expounds perfectly.

 

[HereToStudy]

I am disgusted with everyone on both sides of the isle, and personally practice a libertarian style.

So am I. I am here and there on the reform. I see first hand that we do need some sort of a reform (even though it could negatively impact my income). I do disagree with how it is being done however. I have been to dinner with health insurance corporate types, and you will not believe how badly skewed their view is as well.

Both sides are doing a terrible job, but that is politics.

 

[VolcomX311]

So am I. I am here and there on the reform. I see first hand that we do need some sort of a reform (even though it could negatively impact my income). I do disagree with how it is being done however. I have been to dinner with health insurance corporate types, and you will not believe how badly skewed their view is as well.

Both sides are doing a terrible job, but that is politics.

Agreed.

 

[Nitrox]

Again, I do not think you understand the Cali abundance of social programs. The difference is still astronomical.

You're right I don't. My previous example is really dependent on the numbers. If the illegals' NET contribution to society (not just in dollars) is less than what they consume then the system is unbalanced.

However, I am skeptical that that difference is 'astronomical.' Governments are rarely efficient but dismissing them as stupid is not objective. Politicians want to get elected and if was clear that they could stroke patriotism and 'astronomically' improve the state's bottom line by sealing the border then I think that it is likely that they would.

All I am trying to say is that there are usually numerous impacts beyond the first step of taxation and that those steps get progressively less objective as you go along. The actual tax increase is of course easy to quantify and hence usually elicits a negative response.

 

[Nitrox]

So am I. I am here and there on the reform. I see first hand that we do need some sort of a reform (even though it could negatively impact my income). I do disagree with how it is being done however. I have been to dinner with health insurance corporate types, and you will not believe how badly skewed their view is as well.

Both sides are doing a terrible job, but that is politics.

Agreed as well. I think that public health care is worthy goal. A country should look after its citizens. Plus the older that I get the less I care about money and the more I care about quality of life (including personal health). However, achieving it requires different sectors to collaborate and unfortunately that is not the way our society is setup. It is more competitive. So the corporate types will spin and skew information in order to protect their industry - they don't want to be out of a job. While the political parties fight each other because that is what they do. God forbid that the left cooperates with the right for once. The end result is some half-baked middle of the road solution that doesn't work all that well.

 

[DerickVonD]

I've been watching alot of Ron Paul interviews and reading about him. He's someone I'd actually vote for.

 

[DAdams91982]

I've been watching alot of Ron Paul interviews and reading about him. He's someone I'd actually vote for.

I wrote his name in last election. I will write him again as well. I don't agree with 100% of his policies, but he is completely honest and adhears to the constitution, something no politician does today. Lies get you in to office, and people just keep chomping at the same bit every two years. If you want to know how much of an abomination this healthcare bill, and nationalized healthcare in general, look up his speeches.

 

[DerickVonD]

Well Hitler's bill just passed. More bs taxes. Don't worry martial law will be on its way soon.

 

[WarMachine000]

I wrote his name in last election. I will write him again as well. I don't agree with 100% of his policies, but he is completely honest and adhears to the constitution, something no politician does today. Lies get you in to office, and people just keep chomping at the same bit every two years. If you want to know how much of an abomination this healthcare bill, and nationalized healthcare in general, look up his speeches.

I'm not a Republican or a Democrat
- I don't agree 100% with anybody on everything (politician or not), but I would GLADLY vote for Ron Paul! I agree with a lot if his ideas, and with politicians that's about as good as it gets (for me at least)

 

[DAdams91982]

Well Hitler's bill just passed. More bs taxes. Don't worry martial law will be on its way soon.

Here is your hope.

http://mlis.state.md.us/2010rs/billfile/SB0397.htm

 

[HereToStudy]

Well Hitler's bill just passed. More bs taxes. Don't worry martial law will be on its way soon.

I seriously hope your kidding. Turn off fox news.

 

[DAdams91982]

I seriously hope your kidding. Turn off fox news.

I really hope you are kidding.

You do realize "Cadillac" plans are staged to be taxed astronomically correct? Oh, and lets put this in context, it is a 40% tax.

Your constant critical nature toward fox news only means you have listened to the talking points on the other side.

 

[DerickVonD]

Seems the house will pass anything if its over 100 pages and has a good name. here's a thought congress why don't you learn how to ****ing read.

 

[DerickVonD]

So stupid, democrats will support anything obama, I mean Hitler, I mean Barry Soetoro supports JUST BECAUSE HE IS DEMOCRAT. How stupid is that. Name me one thing he has done to benefit anyone, especially the black community that loves him so much, atleast here in this state since it's democratic. I heard 52% of the black community is never born, because the abortion rate is high. Does he talk about that at all? NO.

 

[HereToStudy]

I really hope you are kidding.

You do realize "Cadillac" plans are staged to be taxed astronomically correct? Oh, and lets put this in context, it is a 40% tax.

Your constant critical nature toward fox news only means you have listened to the talking points on the other side.

My dad is on a Cadillac plan. He'll pay it. He has the income. I don't agree with it as well, but I never said I agreed with the whole plan. In the same sense, I don't think I should have been able to get Prada sunglasses 100% free (no copay/deduct.) on an insurance plan. Cadillac plans are plans that are open to abuse. But it's okay, lets have the rich keep enjoying an abudance of coverage while lower/middle class has to go without insurance. Remember over 60% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. Apparently health doesn't need to be a human right.

I also watched the coverage on fox news last night. Coverage wasnt terrible until the tears about abortions came about. OH NO, A small fraction of the money of our taxes will kill unborn fetuses. However, we are all for large drawn out wars that kill people consistently.

Seems the house will pass anything if its over 100 pages and has a good name. here's a thought congress why don't you learn how to ****ing read.

I have read a good portion of it, since you obviously read it, care to state cited arguments against it?

obama, I mean Hitler

Grow up, really...

Oh also, I can't wait to hear why Rush Limbaugh will renig on his decision to leave the country if this passed. Radical bastard.

 

[HereToStudy]

Name me one thing he has done to benefit anyone, especially the black community that loves him so much, atleast here in this state since it's democratic.

Many consider this health reform a benefit, just because you don't doesn't imply others do not.

 

[DAdams91982]

My dad is on a Cadillac plan. He'll pay it. He has the income. I don't agree with it as well, but I never said I agreed with the whole plan. In the same sense, I don't think I should have been able to get Prada sunglasses 100% free (no copay/deduct.) on an insurance plan. Cadillac plans are plans that are open to abuse. But it's okay, lets have the rich keep enjoying an abudance of coverage while lower/middle class has to go without insurance. Remember over 60% of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills. Apparently health doesn't need to be a human right.

I also watched the coverage on fox news last night. Coverage wasnt terrible until the tears about abortions came about. OH NO, A small fraction of the money of our taxes will kill unborn fetuses. However, we are all for large drawn out wars that kill people consistently.

You definitely have the democrat conception. A "Cadillac" plan is already quite expensive to a business and the recipient, so now since they CHOOSE to get a better plan, they ALSO get taxed at 40% of it? And let me preface this, I am in the middle class, but my company provides me with what others would term "Cadillac" plans, now if that number is increased, my health care either goes way down, or the amount out of pocket goes way up, something I cannot afford to happen. The rich are only rich because they actually put in the effort to live the American dream, or someone down their lineage did it for them... I don't feel any need to give the crack head down the street health care on my own dime. Never in the history of America has the American people been forced to purchase a for profit service. For the party of choice, the choices seem to become much more limited. Now please point me ANYWHERE in the constitution where it states that a right in America is health care.

Yes, I whole heartedly agree with the rejection of federal money to go to killing unborn babies.

Funny you have no problem killing unborn babies, but when it comes to evil people, apparently they get all the rights.

 

[HereToStudy]

You definitely have the democrat conception. A "Cadillac" plan is already quite expensive to a business and the recipient, so now since they CHOOSE to get a better plan, they ALSO get taxed at 40% of it? And let me preface this, I am in the middle class, but my company provides me with what others would term "Cadillac" plans, now if that number is increased, my health care either goes way down, or the amount out of pocket goes way up, something I cannot afford to happen. The rich are only rich because they actually put in the effort to live the American dream, or someone down their lineage did it for them... I don't feel any need to give the crack head down the street health care on my own dime. Never in the history of America has the American people been forced to purchase a for profit service. For the party of choice, the choices seem to become much more limited. Now please point me ANYWHERE in the constitution where it states that a right in America is health care.

Oh because this country has been 100% constitutional. Oh wait, the Patriot Act.

The United States loves to give this image of being so high and mighty, and better then other countries. However, people die because they can't afford procedures, or better yet, their health insurance finds some damn loophole to make a profit by saying no to saving their life. You can enjoy your cadillac plan until you something drastic happens, and they loophole you as well. In case you think health care is fine in the US, check this:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Oh wtf? France leading the world in health care? They have socialized medicine?!? What communists.

America: LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happines.

Funny you have no problem killing unborn babies, but when it comes to evil people, apparently they get all the rights.

I don't have any problem with abortions. I don't consider it life yet (It can not sustain life on it's own). I don't like the idea of federal taxes paying for abortions, and I would love to personally shoot people who use abortion as a form of birth control. In the same sense, I will lose no sleep over it's inclusion in the bill. Republican candidates on fox last night were discussing the bishops' views on the bill. I DONT GIVE A **** what any religious party has to say about anything related to politics or law. The consitution provides a seperation of church and state. The bishops should not be our moral police after they **** some young boy.

 

[DAdams91982]

Oh because this country has been 100% constitutional. Oh wait, the Patriot Act.

The United States loves to give this image of being so high and mighty, and better then other countries. However, people die because they can't afford procedures, or better yet, their health insurance finds some damn loophole to make a profit by saying no to saving their life. You can enjoy your cadillac plan until you something drastic happens, and they loophole you as well. In case you think health care is fine in the US, check this:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Oh wtf? France leading the world in health care? They have socialized medicine?!? What communists.

America: LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happines.

That right there shows you have no leg to stand on. You just quoted the WHO, when they have been picked apart non stop for their biased rankings. I do love how you bolded life. We both know that no one is denied life. For you say someone is denied life saving health care for their inability to pay speaks volumes of your stance.

As for the Patriot Act, I was against it then, and against it now.... your good ol boy just re-passed the damn thing. So don't try to correlate one belief to another.

I don't have any problem with abortions. I don't consider it life yet (It can not sustain life on it's own). I don't like the idea of federal taxes paying for abortions, and I would love to personally shoot people who use abortion as a form of birth control. In the same sense, I will lose no sleep over it's inclusion in the bill. Republican candidates on fox last night were discussing the bishops' views on the bill. I DONT GIVE A **** what any religious party has to say about anything related to politics or law. The consitution provides a seperation of church and state. The bishops should not be our moral police after they **** some young boy.

Again, your candor is unbecoming of yourself. Firstly, the church and state separation was meant to keep the state out of the church, not the other way around, the ideal has been twisted only recently. America's fundamentals were built upon the christian belief system. Believe it or not, the church is still a major morale authority, weather you like it or not.

 

[Nitrox]

Again, your candor is unbecoming of yourself. Firstly, the church and state separation was meant to keep the state out of the church, not the other way around, the ideal has been twisted only recently. America's fundamentals were built upon the christian belief system. Believe it or not, the church is still a major morale authority, weather you like it or not.

Thump much?

 

[DAdams91982]

Thump much?

u mad?

 

[HereToStudy]

You just quoted the WHO

Have a better source of the rankings of health care in the world?

your good ol boy just re-passed the damn thing.

I believe I stated earlier that I was not a die hard obama fan, but if I didn't, then I can state now, that his demeanor of carrying himself as a prophet to the world of politics is annoying as ****, and the fact that he and his wife have become as much of a tv personality as a president/first lady I also disagree with. To contribute to the fact that I am not a fan, he did repass the patriot act, which I never denied.

Again, your candor is unbecoming of yourself. Firstly, the church and state separation was meant to keep the state out of the church, not the other way around, the ideal has been twisted only recently. America's fundamentals were built upon the christian belief system. Believe it or not, the church is still a major morale authority, weather you like it or not.

I'm not going to bother going any further into discussion over this issue. Your opinion is very skewed. But I'm pretty used to dealing with bible thumping religious right types.

We both know that no one is denied life. For you say someone is denied life saving health care for their inability to pay speaks volumes of your stance.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/cigna-employee-flips-off_n_314189.html
*Ignore the source, this has been covered by many, just first source I found. Sums up the industry now (*Reminder: I work in it)

 

[DAdams91982]

Have a better source of the rankings of health care in the world?[/QUOTE}
Ah, the right question. There is no way to rank them, even the WHO gave up in 2000 because it wasn't even close to right. America has the best cancer survival rate, but the highest vehicle related deaths as well as infantcide. Can't exactly compare the whole picture, France got a higher ranking because of the socialized care.

I'm not going to bother going any further into discussion over this issue. Your opinion is very skewed. But I'm pretty used to dealing with bible thumping religious right types.

Not even in the least, I didn't bring religion into the argument, you did. I provided certain ideals that pertain to your argument. I'm not one to defend a position with the church as my argument.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/cigna-employee-flips-off_n_314189.html
*Ignore the source, this has been covered by many, just first source I found. Sums up the industry now (*Reminder: I work in it)

Nice, still, you pull said information from the worst source. You work in the industry, so you should know the laws on the books that say a hospital cannot deny care. Because Cigna denied their claim does not mean they cannot get a transplant.

 

[The Dooeug]

I doubt anyone that drinks soda on a regular basis will give up soda or drink less of it just because its going to be taxed.

 

[HereToStudy]

Ah, the right question. There is no way to rank them, even the WHO gave up in 2000 because it wasn't even close to right. America has the best cancer survival rate, but the highest vehicle related deaths as well as infantcide. Can't exactly compare the whole picture, France got a higher ranking because of the socialized care.

Does Life expectancy work better for you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Not even in the least, I didn't bring religion into the argument, you did. I provided certain ideals that pertain to your argument. I'm not one to defend a position with the church as my argument.

But, as a republican, religion is a core of much of what you guys stand for.

Nice, still, you pull said information from the worst source. You work in the industry, so you should know the laws on the books that say a hospital cannot deny care. Because Cigna denied their claim does not mean they cannot get a transplant.

So a Family has to choose, drive themselves into a life of absolute poverty due to aquiring insane amounts of debt over a procedure that should have been covered. Hey, it's the American way.

 

[DAdams91982]

Does Life expectancy work better for you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

Did you not read my skewing factors from my previous post? Life expectancy has NOTHING to do with health care in America.

But, as a republican, religion is a core of much of what you guys stand for.

Nice try, Conservative leaning libertarian. Which the health care passage is a direct assault on liberties.

So a Family has to choose, drive themselves into a life of absolute poverty due to aquiring insane amounts of debt over a procedure that should have been covered. Hey, it's the American way.

Not if they would have taken the precautions, if someone is so poor they cannot afford Health insurance, 9 times out of 10 they get Medicaid or their state sponsored version of Medicaid.

 

[Nitrox]

Not if they would have taken the precautions, if someone is so poor they cannot afford Health insurance, 9 times out of 10 they get Medicaid or their state sponsored version of Medicaid.

Not arguing one way or the other here but are you saying that you are ok with 1 in 10 in these situations not being able to receive medical care?