SNS - Tell Us What You Want in a Multi-Vitamin

sns8778

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We've been getting more and more requests to do a multi-vitamin.

This is one of those things where there is absolutely no way to please everyone because this is a category that a lot of people want something different out of - some people want high potency, some people want low potency, some people want iron, some people don't want iron, etc.

And then there is the issue that many people say that they want a multi-vitamin with all the premium forms in it, but then they expect it to cost the same as a generic few dollar multi-vitamin.

There's also the issue of how many capsules per day is reasonable for people to take - for example, for years, people were spoiled to the concept of a 1 a day multi-vitamin but you simply can't get high potencies in one capsule and especially not of the better forms of many vitamins and minerals.

I have had a tentative design for awhile on what I'm thinking of offering, but I would love to hear people's opinions of what they would like to see in one.

I'm really curious to see how everyone's ideas line up with what I'm thinking for one.
 

chainsaw

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Simple but complete. No extras, that are usually underdosed and not of any benefit, it just waste capsule space.

Proper ratios of vitamin and minerals.

Best form available for each vitamin and mineral.
 
GQdaLEGEND

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Vit A, C, D, K
B12

GingerRoot, R-Alpha, Lutein, Hup-A

Boron
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Simple but complete. No extras, that are usually underdosed and not of any benefit, it just waste capsule space.

Proper ratios of vitamin and minerals.

Best form available for each vitamin and mineral.
Those are two points I'm asking for opinions on though because there's no one universal proper ratio of vitamins and minerals and there is also not necessarily agreement even on the best forms of each vitamin and mineral.

I know what my preferred ratios are and what form of minerals I prefer, but that doesn't mean that you or others would have the same opinion on that. That's why I'm curious to hear input on it.

For example, a perfect multi-vitamin to me would basically have a b-50 complex built into it, but some people would consider that too high in b vitamins but some people may also consider it too low.

Also, some people want Vitamin K in a multi, some people would never take Vitamin K in a multi.

I definitely want to put a few extras in it, but agree on not including ridiculously underdosed amounts of things like you see in some.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Vit A, C, D, K
B12

GingerRoot, R-Alpha, Lutein, Hup-A

Boron
A, C, D, B12, and Boron would be for sure.

Vitamin K I would make an argument for or against - some people would like it in a multi but some people wouldn't take a multi with it in there; and it could also make people have to choose between a multi and say a cardiovascular health supplement. So I'm iffy on that one.

Ginger Root - curious as to your reason for inclusion in a multi?

Lutein I like and would probably be included.

Huperzine A I like and may be included. Iffy on that one - I like it, I just can't include everything I like in one, but that's a good idea.

R-ALA would not be in a multi-vitamin. We would go with Alpha Lipoic Acid in a multi bc 99% of the population that would take a multi is familiar with ALA and not R-ALA, R-ALA costs a lot more so would increase product cost for someone that most wouldn't be familiar with, and R-ALA tends to run sticky on production equipment and would be a disaster at a reasonable dosage in a product like this. I appreciate the idea though, just wanted to explain why wouldn't work for this project.

Benfotiamine is one that I'm trying to decide on as well on whether to include in a multi. (You didn't mention that one, I'm just throwing the idea out there)
 
scoooter

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Please provide evidence that whatever is in it will actually be utilized (digested) and function as intended by the human body.

Probably would require natural forms ($$) and some digestive aides.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Please provide evidence that whatever is in it will actually be utilized (digested) and function as intended by the human body.

Probably would require natural forms ($$) and some digestive aides.
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by evidence in this case?

I may be understanding you wrong, but if I'm understanding you correctly, no one can tell you that digestion of anything (literally anything) will be the same from one person's body to the next.

And if you mean evidence as in clinical studies of a finished formula multi-vitamin, that's not realistic because the project would either be a huge financial loss because the finished product price would be so high that no one would buy it.

If you mean evidence in just a comprehensive writeup and breakdown of all ingredients used and why certain ones would be selected, we normally do that for most products anyway.

I do want to point out though that you mentioned that it would probably require natural forms, but natural forms of vitamins and minerals are not necessarily always the best option for absorption and utilization. It is on some things, but then not necessarily the case on others.
 
sns8778

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scoooter

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I'm not sure that I understand what you mean by evidence in this case?

I may be understanding you wrong, but if I'm understanding you correctly, no one can tell you that digestion of anything (literally anything) will be the same from one person's body to the next.

And if you mean evidence as in clinical studies of a finished formula multi-vitamin, that's not realistic because the project would either be a huge financial loss because the finished product price would be so high that no one would buy it.

If you mean evidence in just a comprehensive writeup and breakdown of all ingredients used and why certain ones would be selected, we normally do that for most products anyway.

I do want to point out though that you mentioned that it would probably require natural forms, but natural forms of vitamins and minerals are not necessarily always the best option for absorption and utilization. It is on some things, but then not necessarily the case on others.
I was thinking along the line of a test that was done a long time ago with desiccated liver tabs where the hard tablets we set in a petri dish of, if I remember correctly, ACV (or some other liquid), which was to mimic stomach acid. The test ran to observe if the tablet would dissolve and how long it would take. The test ws done to show that in fact the "hard tablets" would breakdown and not just pass through...I pretty sure whatever SNS creates will be worthy
 
SSJ4GOD

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I was thinking along the line of a test that was done a long time ago with desiccated liver tabs where the hard tablets we set in a petri dish of, if I remember correctly, ACV (or some other liquid), which was to mimic stomach acid. The test ran to observe if the tablet would dissolve and how long it would take. The test ws done to show that in fact the "hard tablets" would breakdown and not just pass through...I pretty sure whatever SNS creates will be worthy
So as long as you don’t see tablets in your ****…that’s your proof
 
sns8778

sns8778

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I was thinking along the line of a test that was done a long time ago with desiccated liver tabs where the hard tablets we set in a petri dish of, if I remember correctly, ACV (or some other liquid), which was to mimic stomach acid. The test ran to observe if the tablet would dissolve and how long it would take. The test ws done to show that in fact the "hard tablets" would breakdown and not just pass through...I pretty sure whatever SNS creates will be worthy
Thank you for clarifying what you meant by that.

The particular scenario that you are referring to doesn't have anything to do with your body actually absorbing or utilizing the nutrients, it simply has to do with you body breaking down the tablet itself; and that very well may be an issue with some of the mass market hard tablet multi-vitamins but wouldn't for example be an issue with quality ones like NOW Foods for example.

However, it wouldn't be relevant in this case anyway because I really want to do this product in a capsule form. Doing it in a capsule form may lead to there being more capsules to take, but capsules are a lot easier to swallow than tablets for many people, especially elderly populations which I think could really benefit from a quality multi-vitamin like this.
 

Resolve10

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I don't have any super specifics, but I'd want it to be affordable (SNS usually is so no worries) and just make sure it fits within your product stack well.

For example I wouldn't want a ton of Zinc. What if I want to take SNS Immune Support as well? I don't want to overload with Zinc unless I have a very specific reason.

Too much Zinc and too much Selenium (seems less of an issue with the products I've looked at lately) have been my biggest turnaways.

Don't add any garbage fillers that sound useful, but are at meaningful doses (although if feasible to actually putting in useful doses like 50mg Apigenin, etc. and it doesn't drive up cost I can see that being beneficial.
 
BCseacow83

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What I want and what would sell best are likely to be different things.

I prefer methy-folate and methly-b12, a co-enzymated b-complex at a strength of a B-25 equivilant(think B-50 / 2 or a B-100/4 if that makes sense, basically something that could be taken twice a day or more without getting too much(whatever that is lol.)

Minerals are TRICKY. The decent forms, non-oxides, take up lots of space and for me personally I would prefer zero calcium but I know the average consumers will want to see it in there. With a couple exceptions your big minerals, mag and cal, will need an additional supplement for most anyways so tough to get this part correct.

I DO think vits/mins ONLY is the way to go if I was making it for me BUT people lap up that extra stuff like greens blends and mushroom blends and so on. This is our number one seller for that exact reason:


This is a very hard type of product to do and please everyone, basically impossible. As long as it does not have garbage(calcium carbonate, dL-tocopherol and so on) in it I think it will be a win.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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I don't have any super specifics, but I'd want it to be affordable (SNS usually is so no worries) and just make sure it fits within your product stack well.

For example I wouldn't want a ton of Zinc. What if I want to take SNS Immune Support as well? I don't want to overload with Zinc unless I have a very specific reason.

Too much Zinc and too much Selenium (seems less of an issue with the products I've looked at lately) have been my biggest turnaways.

Don't add any garbage fillers that sound useful, but are at meaningful doses (although if feasible to actually putting in useful doses like 50mg Apigenin, etc. and it doesn't drive up cost I can see that being beneficial.
Zinc is one that I did struggle with the dosage decision on a lot because I wanted to have enough for someone that didn't use other products but not so much that someone would be deterred from taking other things of ours.

This is one of the most complex projects I've ever tried to do because there are so many variables and there's no possible way to do one that everyone will be happy with; which I think is why a lot of companies just say screw it and throw one out there bc they know that its just impossible to make everyone happy with it haha.

There are a lot of little things I'd love to add but even if they all only affect cost a little each, have to stop somewhere. Like for me, I love the idea of including Pine Bark, Grape Seed, Apigenin, maybe Huperzine, maybe Benfotiamine, maybe Bilberry, etc.
 
aaronuconn

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Some specifics of what I’d like to see:

Vit E complex - Mixed tocopherols and mixed tocotrienols

Pyridoxal-5'-phosphate

L-5-MTHF

Methylcobalamin

TRAACS minerals if possible

Lutein, Astaxanthin, Lycopene, AstraGin, ActiGin

Of course more than this, but like seeing these as part of a multi
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Some specifics of what I’d like to see:

Vit E complex - Mixed tocopherols and mixed tocotrienols

Pyridoxal-5'-phosphate

L-5-MTHF

Methylcobalamin

TRAACS minerals if possible

Lutein, Astaxanthin, Lycopene, AstraGin, ActiGin

Of course more than this, but like seeing these as part of a multi
Thank y you for the suggestions.

Vitamin E - I'm leaning towards the natural d-alpha form because that's what traditionally sells better for companies; but I could make an argument either way.

P5P would definitely be the B6 source.

Methyl Folate would definitely be the folate source.

Methylcobalamin would definitely be the B12 source.

ActiGin/Senactiv - probably not in a multi bc of price; unless we do a sport or active lifestyle specific one later.

AstraGin - maybe.

Lutein and Astaxanthin I would love to include but running out of capsule space. The problem with those is that a lot of people don't realize you have to include a lot of total mg. for a small yield.

I love the TRAACS minerals too, but the problem is space and the elemental yields. In my mind the max # of capsules I want this to be is 4 capsules per day - to where 2 caps will be fine for some people and others can take 4 caps per day. The issue with TRAACS is that there are some minerals that you 5x the total input dose of to get the elemental yield - meaning that you run out of capsule space fast and that it cuts into being able to add other ingredients to it.

If I thought a person would take 6 capsules per day, I have some great formulas but I don't think most people would ever do that.
 

N2ofusion

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Thank you for clarifying what you meant by that.

The particular scenario that you are referring to doesn't have anything to do with your body actually absorbing or utilizing the nutrients, it simply has to do with you body breaking down the tablet itself; and that very well may be an issue with some of the mass market hard tablet multi-vitamins but wouldn't for example be an issue with quality ones like NOW Foods for example.

However, it wouldn't be relevant in this case anyway because I really want to do this product in a capsule form. Doing it in a capsule form may lead to there being more capsules to take, but capsules are a lot easier to swallow than tablets for many people, especially elderly populations which I think could really benefit from a quality multi-vitamin like this.
Thank you, capsules would be perfect! I struggle with the tablets all the time. Multiple capsules are no challenge at all. Why do so many companies go with these awful tablets anyway?

I like Chromium, Biotin and Niacin as well, to support blood glucose and metabolism.

Boron is a solid addition as well.

Are you considering a “fruit and veggie” blend or is that all just pixie dust?
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Thank you, capsules would be perfect! I struggle with the tablets all the time. Multiple capsules are no challenge at all. Why do so many companies go with these awful tablets anyway?

I like Chromium, Biotin and Niacin as well, to support blood glucose and metabolism.

Boron is a solid addition as well.

Are you considering a “fruit and veggie” blend or is that all just pixie dust?
Tablets are generally a cheaper option for things like this and you can get a little more in them mg. wise so it just became commonplace for multi's because at one time brands thought that people would only take 1 a day or 2 a day max.

Also, a lot of multi's that people see on the markets and think 'oh, those look very close to ____' is because a lot of them are the same products. It is pretty common place for contract manufacturers to have one or more versions of a house multi vitamin, which brands can use and just be creative with the labeling on. It helps brands do them with lower MOQ's and it helps the cm not have to deal with the nightmare of running so many different types of multi's because products with this many ingredients would be a nightmare.

Chromium, Biotin, and Niacin will definitely be in there (as will boron).

There is no concrete answer on whether fruit and veggie blends are pixie dust because a lot of them are, but then there are some that the blends are actually well thought out and researched.

My thought right now is that we are going to do a multi-vitamin that may have a small element of fruits and veggies in it and then do a separate fruits and veggies product which we have an awesome formula already finalized for - and people could stack them together if they want to. And then, if both products are successful, we may wind up doing a variant of the multi with a lot of elements from the fruits/veggies product included in it.
 

N2ofusion

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Tablets are generally a cheaper option for things like this and you can get a little more in them mg. wise so it just became commonplace for multi's because at one time brands thought that people would only take 1 a day or 2 a day max.

Also, a lot of multi's that people see on the markets and think 'oh, those look very close to ____' is because a lot of them are the same products. It is pretty common place for contract manufacturers to have one or more versions of a house multi vitamin, which brands can use and just be creative with the labeling on. It helps brands do them with lower MOQ's and it helps the cm not have to deal with the nightmare of running so many different types of multi's because products with this many ingredients would be a nightmare.

Chromium, Biotin, and Niacin will definitely be in there (as will boron).

There is no concrete answer on whether fruit and veggie blends are pixie dust because a lot of them are, but then there are some that the blends are actually well thought out and researched.

My thought right now is that we are going to do a multi-vitamin that may have a small element of fruits and veggies in it and then do a separate fruits and veggies product which we have an awesome formula already finalized for - and people could stack them together if they want to. And then, if both products are successful, we may wind up doing a variant of the multi with a lot of elements from the fruits/veggies product included in it.
Interesting.

Sounds like a comprehensive product.

Like you said about not pleasing everyone, I would like to see Huperzine A left out of it since I already have standalone caps and am sensitive to too much of it. (The 100 mcg caps are my max).

I’m also not sure how to break through on the marketing front, although I would simply grab a 3 or 4 pack deal, a lot of brands have pretty “meh” multivitamins that I just roll my eyes at. It’s a crowded space in general.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Interesting.

Sounds like a comprehensive product.

Like you said about not pleasing everyone, I would like to see Huperzine A left out of it since I already have standalone caps and am sensitive to too much of it. (The 100 mcg caps are my max).

I’m also not sure how to break through on the marketing front, although I would simply grab a 3 or 4 pack deal, a lot of brands have pretty “meh” multivitamins that I just roll my eyes at. It’s a crowded space in general.
You made a great point there and that's one of the reasons I had thought about not including Huperzine A in there.

It's ironic that you mentioned that because I've had a lot of people ask me to change our Huperzine A 99% from 100 mcg. capsules to 200 mcg. capsules and that's why I haven't - because right now, we have 120 caps @ 100 mcg. and we could go to 60 caps @ 200 mcg., but that would be detrimental to the people that are sensitive to it.

Which on here I think that a lot of people don't even realize that we offer it anyway bc it hardly ever gets mentioned; but I love the ingredient personally.

Huperzine A 99% - 120 caps - 100 mcg. per capsule - only 17.99

 
BCseacow83

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You made a great point there and that's one of the reasons I had thought about not including Huperzine A in there.

It's ironic that you mentioned that because I've had a lot of people ask me to change our Huperzine A 99% from 100 mcg. capsules to 200 mcg. capsules and that's why I haven't - because right now, we have 120 caps @ 100 mcg. and we could go to 60 caps @ 200 mcg., but that would be detrimental to the people that are sensitive to it.

Which on here I think that a lot of people don't even realize that we offer it anyway bc it hardly ever gets mentioned; but I love the ingredient personally.

Huperzine A 99% - 120 caps - 100 mcg. per capsule - only 17.99

120 caps at 100mcg, for me, feels like I am getting a better deal vs 60 at 200mcg. Completely psychological of course but I always like more caps/tabs personally. Besides over the course of a lifetime of taking double caps of everything think of all the bonus gelatin I get!
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Sorry about that still early for me deleted and placed it in the correct thread.
No worries, I don't function in the mornings very well myself haha.
 

mikem1062

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Steve - as you've mentioned before - the multi-vitamin market has a lot of players, lots of different expectations, etc. What about if instead of doing a multi-vitamin itself - if SNS came out with a sort of multi-vitamin booster, sort of an add-on to include the extras that contribute to health, longevity, performance, etc. but aren't typically included in even the good multi's (or aren't included in sufficient dosage)? Then we'd take whatever good quality multi we preferred - NOW, Orange, PES, whatever - then these as well?

That being said - if SNS put out a multi-vitamin I'd likely be buying it. Just wondering if an add-on (maybe "Multi-Plus", somewhat akin to Orange Health IQ) would be more straight-forward or useful?
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Steve - as you've mentioned before - the multi-vitamin market has a lot of players, lots of different expectations, etc. What about if instead of doing a multi-vitamin itself - if SNS came out with a sort of multi-vitamin booster, sort of an add-on to include the extras that contribute to health, longevity, performance, etc. but aren't typically included in even the good multi's (or aren't included in sufficient dosage)? Then we'd take whatever good quality multi we preferred - NOW, Orange, PES, whatever - then these as well?

That being said - if SNS put out a multi-vitamin I'd likely be buying it. Just wondering if an add-on (maybe "Multi-Plus", somewhat akin to Orange Health IQ) would be more straight-forward or useful?
Thank you for the suggestion and I'll reply in detail for you.

There are a ton of multi's on the market but there really is a lack of multis done what I would consider to be the right way - although I understand why companies do them the way that they do because if you go above 2 capsules you lose potential customers, if you go above a certain price point you lose potential customers, etc.

I have always put off doing one because of those constraints - price point, trying to keep it 2 caps or less, and that the market is just absolutely saturated with them.

We have so many people ask us to do a multi-vitamin, not just for them but for their family members, etc.
And while I can recommend things by other brands, there aren't any that I can suggest as being the perfect multi (even though, like I said, I can understand why brands do what they do with them).

That lead me to my thought of doing the perfect multi - at least in my eyes, and it may not be in everyone's - but that's just the way it goes in this category. I want to make a product that would be great for my daughter as a younger female, me as a 44 yo male, my parents who are in their 70's, and my grandmother that is 93. It's obviously hard to cater to everyone with one product in this category so I have a unique way that we plan to do that which will basically be a scaled dosage.

BUT - when I say the perfect multi, I don't necessarily mean that its the perfect formula I'd build if I had no capsule or price constraints; I mean the perfect multi that people will actually take and can also afford.

I like to help people, and to me supplements is an extension of that. I like to help people meet their fitness and physique goals - but overall I'm hoping that as part of that I'm providing products that can help them improve their happiness, self confidence, and self esteem by doing so; and I also have a special passion for wanting to provide products to people that can improve their overall health and quality of life.

^^^^ That's why our Health Series of products is so important to me and why we're working on expanding that - those are ones that may not get as much talk here on AM, but they're important to people. But a key thing is that that concept only works if we provide top quality products that work, and also at prices that people can afford.

I hope all of that makes sense - but that's what my goal is with a multi-vitamin - to do one that will really help people, one that I or anyone else can be confident in buying or recommending for their son, daughter, self, parents, or grandparents.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had thought of doing a product kind of like Orange Health IQ, but absolutely no disrespect meant but that's a little bit of everything but not enough of a lot of things type of product. I understand why they do it, because many people just aren't going to buy a lot of different products - but I would rather do the best product for different health benefits under the health series and then let people buy what they need that best suits their needs and stack with the multi.

I did consider doing a really cool multi-herb product - think of it like the herbal version of a multi-vitamin if that makes sense; I think that could be something really cool to target a lot of different uses. Matter of fact, I'll mention that now in the Tell Us What You Want from Us thread that I just posted, and please feel free to come join me and discuss.


Another note on a multi-vitamin is that if it sells well for us, I would love to expand it into more formulas, what I consider adjunct products - like a cardiovascular focused multi, a multi for blood sugar, a multi focused on stress and anxiety - and I would think and hope that people looking at the specific ones like that could understand that a couple extra caps may be required to give them what they want towards the specific issues.

Sorry for typing you a novel there; I just wanted to explain my ideas thoroughly.
 

Jeremyk1

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Another note on a multi-vitamin is that if it sells well for us, I would love to expand it into more formulas, what I consider adjunct products - like a cardiovascular focused multi, a multi for blood sugar, a multi focused on stress and anxiety - and I would think and hope that people looking at the specific ones like that could understand that a couple extra caps may be required to give them what they want towards the specific issues.
You could do a GNC and make packs that include the multi as well as other formulas tailored to a specific goal. Not sure how feasible that is though.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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You could do a GNC and make packs that include the multi as well as other formulas tailored to a specific goal. Not sure how feasible that is though.
I thought about something like that at one time but the multi-packs like that are GNC's worst selling out of their multi's.

In general, I think making a great multi and great condition specific products is the best way to go - but if we can expand into the general health market better, I do think having a multi that has some condition specific elements would be a great sales point, especially to the people that are only going to buy one supplement.
 
Rocket3015

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My Dr. tells me a should be taking a “Methylated” B Vitamin.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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My Dr. tells me a should be taking a “Methylated” B Vitamin.
That's kind of a general statement overall, but as a general statement I can agree with it.

But breaking it down, it becomes a little more complex than that.

For example, I much prefer methylcobalamin as the preferred form of B12 and I much prefer methyl folate over folic acid, etc.

We will be using these superior forms in any multi-vitamin project that we do, which is one of the challenges because people traditionally want 'cheap' multis and that's the problem - cheap multis are usually cheap multis haha.
 

beefyfan

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Thank you, capsules would be perfect! I struggle with the tablets all the time. Multiple capsules are no challenge at all. Why do so many companies go with these awful tablets anyway?

I like Chromium, Biotin and Niacin as well, to support blood glucose and metabolism.

Boron is a solid addition as well.

Are you considering a “fruit and veggie” blend or is that all just pixie dust?
Everything should be in capsule form. Those horrible multivitamin mineral vitamins were probably gonna be the death of me. A couple times I thought I was gonna choke to death.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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Everything should be in capsule form. Those horrible multivitamin mineral vitamins were probably gonna be the death of me. A couple times I thought I was gonna choke to death.
The reason that the super cheap one use tablets is bc they're cheaper.

The reason that sometimes the really good quality companies use tablets for multis is that with the large tablets, they can fit more mg. in the large tablets versus capsules.

I myself would much prefer to swallow 4 capsules versus 2 or 3 large tablets, but a lot of people, especially mainstream customers will see '4 capsules' and just not buy the product because of it.

It's kind of one of those no win type situations for a company really.
 

N2ofusion

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I would even push “easy to swallow” capsules front and center on the label honestly. Make it a selling point, it’s one of my primary buying points.

Also I would gladly take a 3-4 capsule dose. And space the doses out slightly too.
 
sns8778

sns8778

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I would even push “easy to swallow” capsules front and center on the label honestly. Make it a selling point, it’s one of my primary buying points.

Also I would gladly take a 3-4 capsule dose. And space the doses out slightly too.
I agree, it would be a primary selling point for me too - and as of now, the plan is to hopefully go with capsules for this.

My thinking is that if there is any complaint to having to take x amount of capsules daily, that we may could do a tablet version of it later on for people that would prefer those. But I am definitely a much bigger fan of capsules.
 
Rocket3015

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I don't mind the horse pills, Get Diesel should get an award for "Worlds Largest Pills"
 

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