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Slim Xtreme DISCONTINUED!

How is the proline analog (Phenyl-pyrrolidinyltoluene) aka 2-Diphenylmethylpyrrolidine similar with or relate to amphetamine (IUPAC name 1-phenylpropan-2-amine (synonyms alpha-methylbenzeneethanamine, alpha-methylphenethylamine, beta-phenyl-isopropylamine)) and its other chemical analogs and/or chemical structure?
Even the stimulant pipradrol which was made illegal in many countries in the late 1970s doesnt have any chemical relation to any amphetamines.

"Amphetamine is related to drugs such as methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine, which are a group of potent drugs that act by increasing levels of norepinephrine, serotonin and dopamine in the brain."

Can you site any sources of your information hardknock?
No, you missed what I stated, I believe.

I was asking what you stated as well up to the point to where you quoted. The quoted portion is where my knowledge ends, human reaction to known substances. My education goes as far as reaction to the body and/or mental stability, if any.

As far as nomenclature and relatives of such, chemical reactions in the body and changing of structural nomenclature, I have as much info as someone that is just learning about that portion of the subject.
 
please, someone show me the fda warning! everyone agrees slimx could be harmful and ax has stopped production, but where the hell is the statement from fda? there has not been 1 word on any news station that i watch.
 
please, someone show me the fda warning! everyone agrees slimx could be harmful and ax has stopped production, but where the hell is the statement from fda? there has not been 1 word on any news station that i watch.

Why isn't there a mad dash to warn our little "physical culture" community? You already know why; they don't give a fat **** about you, me, or any of us. If they did, they'd raid companies for fast food, tobacco, and alcohol. It truly is the pinnacle of the C.R.EA.M. (cash rules everythign around me) principle.
 
Why isn't there a mad dash to warn our little "physical culture" community? You already know why; they don't give a fat **** about you, me, or any of us. If they did, they'd raid companies for fast food, tobacco, and alcohol. It truly is the pinnacle of the C.R.EA.M. (cash rules everythign around me) principle.

Good point regarding the fda I also wonder why the fda is doing nothing about the aspartame in our foods, drinks and now most candies. There is very good scientific evidence that indicates the methyl ester in the aspartame sweetener breaks down in the stomach into two chemicals one being carboxylic acid and methanol which as even most laymen know is a serious neurotoxin.
 
Thanks for the summation. I found an interesting link, I don't know what the hell these guys are talking about but it seems like it's relevant and ...

Invalid Link Removed

Does this add any information to the thread?
 
Good point regarding the fda I also wonder why the fda is doing nothing about the aspartame in our foods, drinks and now most candies. There is very good scientific evidence that indicates the methyl ester in the aspartame sweetener breaks down in the stomach into two chemicals one being carboxylic acid and methanol which as even most laymen know is a serious neurotoxin.


Thx, this communication is great. Every little morsel of info shared amongst us sheds light on the mass deception/manipulation tactics of our EVER increasingly totalitarian gov. Our community is relatively small but the underlying principles of this tyranny are enormous.
 
Thx, this communication is great. Every little morsel of info shared amongst us sheds light on the mass deception/manipulation tactics of our EVER increasingly totalitarian gov.

This same statement can be said about the companies shoveling tainted supplements in to the community that you speak of. No matter what, I still hold my head up high, and am proud to be an American. That will never change. A Ranger does not leave a man, nor his Country behind.
 
Good point regarding the fda I also wonder why the fda is doing nothing about the aspartame in our foods, drinks and now most candies. There is very good scientific evidence that indicates the methyl ester in the aspartame sweetener breaks down in the stomach into two chemicals one being carboxylic acid and methanol which as even most laymen know is a serious neurotoxin.


Damn... I wonder why I havent gotten mouth sores, and severe psycosis from my diet dr. pepper.

Comparing speed and aspartame is like comparing apples and coffee tables.
 
Comparing speed and aspartame is like comparing apples and coffee tables.
What if the apple is sitting ON the coffee table next to a rolled up dollar bill caked with cocaine? Think about it. :blink:





































:D Your Cards' better start playing better; they look like the Cubs right now.
 
here is a summary of what is known:

according to some tests, there is agreement that the substance in SX is to 99% "diphenylmethylpyrrolidine". Well, it was probable enough for AX to immediatey stop production of SX.



Is this substance harmful?

Nobody can exactely tell this since there is no published safety data.
In order to get an impression about potential side effects, people have looked at diphenylprilonol, a designer drug that has an extremely similar molecular structure as the substance in SX.

About this other substance, there is much anecdotal evidence that it may cause problems with your heart. Actually, so many people complained about heart problems, that even certain smartshops who were considering to use this substance and distribute it UG as party pill, decided to not use it.

Moreover, it is known that diphenylprolinol is a very strong dopamine transporter inhibitor and that it increases synpatic dopamine levels. In a dose-dependent manner, this could lead to psychosis in predisposed people and it could also be neurotoxic.

To what degree these adverse effects may apply to the substance in SX, is not clear, but it is considered to be very likely that they play a role.

So, I just came across a few other tidbits of info....

It's been tested against the standard. It IS 2DPMP
This was from a guy at BB that sent a sample of SX to a lab and had it tested against the standard and he said it "matched" up perfectly.

For what it is worth.
 
Why isn't there a mad dash to warn our little "physical culture" community? You already know why; they don't give a fat **** about you, me, or any of us. If they did, they'd raid companies for fast food, tobacco, and alcohol. It truly is the pinnacle of the C.R.EA.M. (cash rules everythign around me) principle.

My man, do you know what happened the last time alcohol was put in a position to be prohibited?
 
Thx, this communication is great. Every little morsel of info shared amongst us sheds light on the mass deception/manipulation tactics of our EVER increasingly totalitarian gov. Our community is relatively small but the underlying principles of this tyranny are enormous.

You can say this, and you may be correct, hell, you are correct; however, would you rather someone stepped in and make an attempt to clean this shyyyat hole that has become our supplement industry or would you rather continue to risk your health by taking substances that can be cyanide for all you know?
 
Good point regarding the fda I also wonder why the fda is doing nothing about the aspartame in our foods, drinks and now most candies. There is very good scientific evidence that indicates the methyl ester in the aspartame sweetener breaks down in the stomach into two chemicals one being carboxylic acid and methanol which as even most laymen know is a serious neurotoxin.


I had an uncle, RIP, dude lived to be around 96, never had ANY health issues that were major at all. He got hit by a car, died....he drank sodas his whole life. Now, i do not advocate drinking sodas. I do not drink them; however, there are many other things that we can worry about or put efforts towards than taking aspartame out of our candies and sodas. I agree that this is a growing issue, but, would I rather risk drinking a sprite or coke or popping some obscure pill that I have NO IDEA what the hell is in it? At least with a soda, I can choose what I want to do by looking over the ingredients.

With these "mystery" compounds, it's a crap shoot....

I am not sure why some of the population can not see the importance of knowing what is in the bottle and wanting it to be what it is claimed to be, back with some type of studies instead of the "good ol bro" logs. Face, the era of the "bro log" is done!
 
please, someone show me the fda warning! everyone agrees slimx could be harmful and ax has stopped production, but where the hell is the statement from fda? there has not been 1 word on any news station that i watch.

What FDA warning are you referring to? I did not know that there was supposed to be one for SX? I know they purchased some but I have YET TO SEE any data released on it....
 
Quote:
It's been tested against the standard. It IS 2DPMP

I took a another 7 pannel drug test including amp an meth it came up negative again

if it is meth or 2dpmp why is this drug test negative
 
This same statement can be said about the companies shoveling tainted supplements in to the community that you speak of. No matter what, I still hold my head up high, and am proud to be an American. That will never change. A Ranger does not leave a man, nor his Country behind.

i just wish a few more of our politicians were as loyal to our country as we are. being patriotic is much more than wearing a little flag pin in your $5,000 brooks bros. suit.
 
Damn my bb phone sure made a mistake with the duplicate posts. At the moment I do not see an option on my mobile browser to edit or delete them. Some assistance from a mod would be nice at this time.

i just thought you were a fast typer.
 
Good point regarding the fda I also wonder why the fda is doing nothing about the aspartame in our foods, drinks and now most candies. There is very good scientific evidence that indicates the methyl ester in the aspartame sweetener breaks down in the stomach into two chemicals one being carboxylic acid and methanol which as even most laymen know is a serious neurotoxin.


Thx, this communication is great. Every little morsel of info shared amongst us sheds light on the mass deception/manipulation tactics of our EVER increasingly totalitarian gov. Our community is relatively small but the underlying principles of this tyranny are enormous.



the amount of methanol that is being produced through metabolisation of aspartame is very small. perhaps smaller than what your body processes from fruits....
 
the amount of methanol that is being produced through metabolisation of aspartame is very small. perhaps smaller than what your body processes from fruits....

Your statement to me seems very unclear and not based in hard facts it would be nice to not see words such as, "perhaps" in the data you are presenting. How much aspartame are you talking about and compared to how many fruits (methanol content of 1 diet coke=4 fruits)?
What I gather from your statement is that the methanol released from aspartame will never get to a high enough concentration to cause toxic effects in the body even when chronically consumed. So let us say hypothetically that everyday I consume 6 diet cokes, a pack of sugar free gum, sugar free yogurts, sugar free candies, along with sugar free desserts that this would be non-toxic, safe, and that the methanol levels would still be equal to the amount I would get from consuming fruits?
Some clarity on this would be most appreciated.

:knockedout:

Also I am apologize for having this thread deviate from the SX issue I just wanted to make a point after the FDA post was made.

"Aspartame, a dipeptide of aspartic acid and a methyl ester of phenylalanine, is approved for use in pharmaceutical products and is being used increasingly in chewable tablet and sugar-free formulations. Labels for both prescription and nonprescription products must include the phenylalanine content. The major consideration in the use of aspartame in children is in patients with autosomal recessive phenylketonuria. Although heterozygotes do not appear to have clinically significant increases in phenylalanine after ingestion of even large amounts (equivalent to 24 12-oz cans of diet beverages), homozygotes with strict dietary restrictions should avoid aspartame. Children without dietary restrictions could safely ingest 10 mg/kg/d. [37-40]. Dietary consumption of aspartame is typically less than 5 mg/kg/d[41]; young children, however, could ingest considerably more. For example, a 2-year-old child weighing 12 kg consumes 17 mg/kg from drinking one 12-oz can of diet soda and one serving of a sweetened product (eg, cereal, pudding, gelatin, or frozen dessert).

Headache is the most common adverse side effect attributed to aspartame but is seldom confirmed by single-dose double-blind challenge. Up to 11% of patients with chronic migraine headaches reported headaches triggered by aspartame; however, a double-blind challenge with three doses of 10 mg/kg given every 2 hours triggered no more headaches than did placebos in patients with vascular headaches believed to be exacerbated by aspartame. A small, double-blind 4-week trial showed an increase in frequency of headaches after ingestion of 1200 mg/d, indicating that a longer challenge period may be necessary.

In anecdotal reports, aspartame has been linked to various neuropsychiatric disorders, including panic attacks, mood changes, visual hallucinations, manic episodes, and isolated dizziness. A small, double-blind crossover study of patients with major depression revealed a higher incidence of reactions in these patients compared with nondepressed volunteers after administration of 30 mg/kg for 7 days; symptoms included headache, nervousness, dizziness, memory impairment, nausea, temper outbursts, and depression. None of these conditions has been rigorously proven to be caused by aspartame, but carefully conducted double-blind challenges may be indicated in patients with histories that suggest aspartame as a cause. Patients with underlying mitral valve prolapse or affective disorders may be at increased risk for neuropsychiatric effects; several studies have shown that individuals without psychiatric or seizure disorders do not demonstrate these effects.

Seizures have been reported via passive surveillance data collected by the FDA and in a few case reports. A recent analysis of FDA reports showed 41 cases of rechallenge with a temporal relationship to aspartame consumption. Most seizures occurred in patients who had an acceptable dietary intake, except for a 16-year-old who ingested up to 57 mg/kg of aspartame. Aspartame is generally considered safe for children with epilepsy. One study found increased spike-wave discharges in children with untreated absence seizures after a high dose of aspartame and suggested that children with poorly controlled absence seizures avoid aspartame."
 
My man, do you know what happened the last time alcohol was put in a position to be prohibited?

I certainly do, which is part of my point. Alcohol harms more people than any other substance, however, it's not practical to ban it (and history clearly shows this). On the other hand, bodybuilding supplements are easy targets.
 
You can say this, and you may be correct, hell, you are correct; however, would you rather someone stepped in and make an attempt to clean this shyyyat hole that has become our supplement industry or would you rather continue to risk your health by taking substances that can be cyanide for all you know?

You make a good point. Ideally, the FDA should protect our right to make an informed decision about what to consume, not outright prohibit it. Again, I agree companies should be held accountable for label claims, however, beyond that, it SHOULD be OUR decision.
 
Quote:
It's been tested against the standard. It IS 2DPMP

I took a another 7 pannel drug test including amp an meth it came up negative again

if it is meth or 2dpmp why is this drug test negative

What source have you aquired your information from which is leading you to believe that 2-DPMP is related to amphetamines or methamphetamine other than the fact that it is a stimulant?

"Desoxypipradrol, also known as 2-diphenylmethylpiperidine (2-DPMP), is psychoactive drug and research chemical of the piperidine chemical class which acts as a long-lasting stimulant via functioning as a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI).[1]

Desoxypipradrol is closely related on a structural level to the compounds methylphenidate (Ritalin, Focalin, Concerta) and pipradrol (Meretran), all three of which share a similar pharmacological action.[2] Of these three piperidines, desoxypipradrol has the longest elimination half-life, as it is a highly lipophilic molecule lacking polar functional groups that are typically targeted by metabolic enzymes. Methylphenidate, on the other hand, is a short-acting compound, as it possesses a methyl-ester moiety that is easily cleaved, forming a highly polar acid group, while pipradrol is intermediate in duration, possessing a hydroxyl group which can be conjugated (e.g. with glucuronide) to increase its hydrophilicity and facilitate excretion, but no easily metabolized groups.

Desoxypipradrol was developed by the pharmaceutical company CIBA (now called Novartis) in the 1950s,[3] and researched for applications such as the treatment of narcolepsy and ADHD, however it was dropped from development after the related drug methylphenidate was developed by the same company. Methylphenidate was felt to be the superior drug for treating ADHD due to its shorter duration of action and more predictable pharmacokinetics, and while desoxypipradrol was researched for other applications such as to facilitate rapid recovery from anaesthesia [4] its development was not continued. The hydroxylated derivative pipradrol was, however, introduced as a clinical drug indicated for depression, narcolepsy and cognitive enhancement in organic dementia.

In more recent times there has been some interest in the use of desoxypipradrol as a legal recreational drug. Its activity profile as a dopamine reuptake-inhibiting stimulant means that it could potentially be used as an alternative to illegal drugs such as cocaine and methylphenidate; however the slow onset of effects, and very long duration of action (as long as 24 hours, especially if more than one dose is taken) makes it unlikely to be successful for this application, as prominent side effects such as insomnia and anorexia are likely to outweigh any positive effects.

Desoxypipradrol might also prove quite useful for its original application of treating attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), considering that the short half-life of common treatments such as methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine has led to the development of long-acting, delayed release formulations of these drugs. Certain individuals with ADHD prefer long-acting stimulant compounds, as they often require only one daily dose, making it more difficult to forget to take the medication.

Desoxypipradrol is not specifically listed as a controlled drug in any country at the present time, but its structural similarity to the drug pipradrol makes it possible that it would be considered a controlled substance analogue in several countries such as Australia and New Zealand."

"Methamphetamine also known as metamfetamine (INN), methylamphetamine, N-methylamphetamine, and desoxyephedrine) is a psychostimulant and sympathomimetic drug. Methamphetamine enters the brain and triggers a cascading release of dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. It is highly active in the mesolimbic reward pathways of the brain, inducing intense euphoria, with risk for addiction. To a lesser extent, methamphetamine acts as a dopaminergic and adrenergic reuptake inhibitor with high concentrations serving as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor."

"Amphetamine (amfetamine (INN)) is a psychostimulant drug that is known to produce increased wakefulness and focus in association with decreased fatigue and appetite. Amphetamine is related to drugs such as methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine, which are a group of potent drugs that act by increasing levels of norepinephrine, serotonin and dopamine in the brain, inducing euphoria."

There is truely no chemical relation between 2-DPMP and amphetamines of any type. Of course a 7 panel drug test would not screen for 2-DPMP since its not even an illegal substance. Even if it was illegal a 7 panel drug test would not have the ability to detect obscure illegal chemicals or there metabolites. For example the illegal chemical 2C-B, 2C-T-7, 5-MeO-DIPT, 4-Methylaminorex, or Dimethyltryptamine to name just a few would not be detected by that type of drug test. Also for many of the uncommon illegal chemical drugs there are no screens yet available that don't require GC/MS or similar technical analysis.

Also this should help you better understand drug tests:
"The SAMHSA-5 #
Federal government guidelines (by SAMHSA-the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) require that companies which use commercial class drivers licenses for employees must have a testing system in place. Among other things, this required testing program must test for 5 specific categories of drugs (referred to as the "SAMHSA 5", previously called the "NIDA-5"). Because of this federal requirement, most drug testing companies offer a basic drug test that checks for drugs in these 5 common categories. Click on the substance name for a description of the laboratory method for detecting the substance.


Cannabinoids (marijuana, hash)
Cocaine (cocaine, crack, benzoylecognine)
Amphetamines (amphetamines, methamphetamines, speed)
Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
Phencyclidine (PCP)
Expanded Tests
Most drug testing companies also offer an expanded test which includes a few additional drug classes and specific drugs in the testing process. Most do not add all of these in their expanded test, but choose a different combination of 3 or 4 to add :


Barbiturates (Phenobarbital, Secobarbitol, Butalbital)
Hydrocodone (Lortab, Vicodin)
Methaqualone (Quaaludes)
Benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, Librium, Serax, Rohypnol)
Methadone
Propoxyphene (Darvon compounds)
Ethanol (Alcohol)
MDMA (Ecstasy)
Additional Testables
In addition, there are a few other substances which it is possible but quite unusual to test for. I only found reference to testing for these additional substances at 1 (out of 15) drug testing sites :


LSD
Tryptamines (Psilocybin, AMT, DMT, DPT, 5-MeO-DiPT)
Phenethylamines (Mescaline, MDMA, MDA, MDE, 2C-B, 2C-T-7)
Inhalents (Toluene, Xylene, Benzene)"
 
This same statement can be said about the companies shoveling tainted supplements in to the community that you speak of. No matter what, I still hold my head up high, and am proud to be an American. That will never change. A Ranger does not leave a man, nor his Country behind.

I agree lable claims should be enforced by the FDA. Unfortuntely the FDA goes way beyond their role as protectors of public health.

I love this country intensly and would die to protect the principles it was founded on. However, radicals, liberal idealogs, and secular progressives are systematically ripping this foundation apart.

It's our responsibility as citizens to hold our government accountable and fight for the principles our forefathers died to preserve.

By all means FDA, regulate food and drugs and ensure we aren't consumeing rat poison. HOWEVER, at the same time, don't dictate what I can and cannot consume after I make an informed decision.

I think TJ said it best: "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

I respect Rangers; you guys are good to go. We fight the same fight; a Marine doesn't leave a man or his country behind either.
 
You make a good point. Ideally, the FDA should protect our right to make an informed decision about what to consume, not outright prohibit it. Again, I agree companies should be held accountable for label claims, however, beyond that, it SHOULD be OUR decision.

I am not completely disagreeing with your stance. I, too, want what you want. However, it is the better of two evils here, almost.

If I HAD TO CHOOSE ban or let it run free like a viral infection, I would choose ban. Now, that is a VERY HARD decision for me as I believe that man/woman of adequate age (depending on what is stated, i.e. drinking 21, etc) should have the right to put into their body's what they desire.

I would rather see some regulation with legalization of many "products" out there; but, this is not practical in many societies.
 
What source have you aquired your information from which is leading you to believe that 2-DPMP is related to amphetamines or methamphetamine other than the fact that it is a stimulant?
It could be that he is basis it on a discussing that reared from another site some few weeks/days ago. It was being compared to meth; however, I believe the chemist retracted that statement.
 
Your statement to me seems very unclear and not based in hard facts it would be nice to not see words such as, "perhaps" in the data you are presenting. How much aspartame are you talking about and compared to how many fruits (methanol content of 1 diet coke=4 fruits)?
What I gather from your statement is that the methanol released from aspartame will never get to a high enough concentration to cause toxic effects in the body even when chronically consumed. So let us say hypothetically that everyday I consume 6 diet cokes, a pack of sugar free gum, sugar free yogurts, sugar free candies, along with sugar free desserts that this would be non-toxic, safe, and that the methanol levels would still be equal to the amount I would get from consuming fruits?
Some clarity on this would be most appreciated.

:knockedout:

Also I am apologize for having this thread deviate from the SX issue I just wanted to make a point after the FDA post was made.

"Aspartame, a dipeptide of aspartic acid and a methyl ester of phenylalanine, is approved for use in pharmaceutical products and is being used increasingly in chewable tablet and sugar-free formulations. Labels for both prescription and nonprescription products must include the phenylalanine content. The major consideration in the use of aspartame in children is in patients with autosomal recessive phenylketonuria. Although heterozygotes do not appear to have clinically significant increases in phenylalanine after ingestion of even large amounts (equivalent to 24 12-oz cans of diet beverages), homozygotes with strict dietary restrictions should avoid aspartame. Children without dietary restrictions could safely ingest 10 mg/kg/d. [37-40]. Dietary consumption of aspartame is typically less than 5 mg/kg/d[41]; young children, however, could ingest considerably more. For example, a 2-year-old child weighing 12 kg consumes 17 mg/kg from drinking one 12-oz can of diet soda and one serving of a sweetened product (eg, cereal, pudding, gelatin, or frozen dessert).

This is a great post; also, it is a pathetic shame that we cannot conjure up the same data for most of these "dart in the dark" muscle enhancers that are floating around on the market now a days...

Now, do you see what I am saying? You have just made my point crystal clear by posting up this solid data on aspartame.
 
I am not completely disagreeing with your stance. I, too, want what you want. However, it is the better of two evils here, almost.

If I HAD TO CHOOSE ban or let it run free like a viral infection, I would choose ban. Now, that is a VERY HARD decision for me as I believe that man/woman of adequate age (depending on what is stated, i.e. drinking 21, etc) should have the right to put into their body's what they desire.

I would rather see some regulation with legalization of many "products" out there; but, this is not practical in many societies.

I believe that decriminalization of a substance will have a far better outcome in society than a blanket legalization of a "product" that is currently controlled.
 
This is a great post; also, it is a pathetic shame that we cannot conjure up the same data for most of these "dart in the dark" muscle enhancers that are floating around on the market now a days...

Now, do you see what I am saying? You have just made my point crystal clear by posting up this solid data on aspartame.

I believe I have had an understanding on what you have been saying regarding the deceptive tactics that many of these supplement companys are engaged in and the fact that are keeping consumers in the dark on the details and risks of their chemicals which will obfuscate the users judgement and ability to assess the risks before consuming their product.
I am assuming your thoughts are that I am in some kind of disagreement with you which is not the case or am I confused?
 
I am not completely disagreeing with your stance. I, too, want what you want. However, it is the better of two evils here, almost.

If I HAD TO CHOOSE ban or let it run free like a viral infection, I would choose ban. Now, that is a VERY HARD decision for me as I believe that man/woman of adequate age (depending on what is stated, i.e. drinking 21, etc) should have the right to put into their body's what they desire.

I would rather see some regulation with legalization of many "products" out there; but, this is not practical in many societies.

I totally see your point of view, and you may be right. Between the two extremes-1) let it run wild vs. 2) complete gov control...hmmm, that is a tough one and I personally can't support either extreme.

I can only advocate the middle ground: responsible regulation of food and drugs coupled with unrestricted (and informed) freedom of choice for the consumer.
 
I believe I have had an understanding on what you have been saying regarding the deceptive tactics that many of these supplement companys are engaged in and the fact that are keeping consumers in the dark on the details and risks of their chemicals which will obfuscate the users judgement and ability to assess the risks before consuming their product.
I am assuming your thoughts are that I am in some kind of disagreement with you which is not the case or am I confused?

I was headed out to work when I left that post, it should have read 'i hope that we see now.....etc'. I was addressing the thread as a whole or it is what I was intending...
 
Your statement to me seems very unclear and not based in hard facts it would be nice to not see words such as, "perhaps" in the data you are presenting. How much aspartame are you talking about and compared to how many fruits (methanol content of 1 diet coke=4 fruits)?

straight facts:

Aspartame & Methanol
"19 gm aspartame, the equivalent of one teaspoon sugar yields 1.9 gm methanol. * One liter of most aspartame sweetened soft drinks contain about 55 mg. methanol. * Methanol concentrations in aspartame-sweetened beverages increase with heating and during prolonged storage. * The amount of methanol ingested by heavy consumers of aspartame products could readily exceed 250 mg. daily (Monte l984)."


Fruits and methanol:


Lindinger W, Taucher J, Jordan A, Hansel A, and Vogel W
Alcoholism, clinical and experimental research 21(5):939-43, 1997 Aug

"After the consumption of fruit, the concentration of methanol in the human body increases by as much as an order of magnitude. This is due to the degradation of natural pectin (which is esterified with methyl alcohol) in the human colon. In vivo tests performed by means of proton-transfer-reaction mass spectrometry show that consumed pectin in either a pure form (10 to 15 g) or a natural form (in 1 kg of apples) induces a significant increase of methanol in the breath (and by inference in the blood) of humans. The amount generated from pectin (0.4 to 1.4 g) is approximately equivalent to the total daily endogenous production (measured to be 0.3 to 0.6 g/day) ..."
 
Start a new thread this getting too far afield. I suggest you go to the politics section so that futurepilot can add in his socialist utopian big government two cents (ie. we could have Barry O appoint Acorn workers clad in golden armor carrying swords of truth riding unicorns to cleanse the unclean elements of the business community in the name of the commerce clause)
 
Thanks elivvt,

This is the info I have been looking for. I fall under this group. When other poster on boards say AMP or METH I freak out I am class A Driver. In do like s/x I don't want to lose my job

((((((Also this should help you better understand drug tests:
"The SAMHSA-5 #
Federal government guidelines (by SAMHSA-the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) require that companies which use commercial class drivers licenses for employees must have a testing system in place.)))))









What source have you aquired your information from which is leading you to believe that 2-DPMP is related to amphetamines or methamphetamine other than the fact that it is a stimulant?

"Desoxypipradrol, also known as 2-diphenylmethylpiperidine (2-DPMP), is psychoactive drug and research chemical of the piperidine chemical class which acts as a long-lasting stimulant via functioning as a norepinephrine-dopamine reuptake inhibitor (NDRI).[1]

Desoxypipradrol is closely related on a structural level to the compounds methylphenidate (Ritalin, Focalin, Concerta) and pipradrol (Meretran), all three of which share a similar pharmacological action.[2] Of these three piperidines, desoxypipradrol has the longest elimination half-life, as it is a highly lipophilic molecule lacking polar functional groups that are typically targeted by metabolic enzymes. Methylphenidate, on the other hand, is a short-acting compound, as it possesses a methyl-ester moiety that is easily cleaved, forming a highly polar acid group, while pipradrol is intermediate in duration, possessing a hydroxyl group which can be conjugated (e.g. with glucuronide) to increase its hydrophilicity and facilitate excretion, but no easily metabolized groups.

Desoxypipradrol was developed by the pharmaceutical company CIBA (now called Novartis) in the 1950s,[3] and researched for applications such as the treatment of narcolepsy and ADHD, however it was dropped from development after the related drug methylphenidate was developed by the same company. Methylphenidate was felt to be the superior drug for treating ADHD due to its shorter duration of action and more predictable pharmacokinetics, and while desoxypipradrol was researched for other applications such as to facilitate rapid recovery from anaesthesia [4] its development was not continued. The hydroxylated derivative pipradrol was, however, introduced as a clinical drug indicated for depression, narcolepsy and cognitive enhancement in organic dementia.

In more recent times there has been some interest in the use of desoxypipradrol as a legal recreational drug. Its activity profile as a dopamine reuptake-inhibiting stimulant means that it could potentially be used as an alternative to illegal drugs such as cocaine and methylphenidate; however the slow onset of effects, and very long duration of action (as long as 24 hours, especially if more than one dose is taken) makes it unlikely to be successful for this application, as prominent side effects such as insomnia and anorexia are likely to outweigh any positive effects.

Desoxypipradrol might also prove quite useful for its original application of treating attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), considering that the short half-life of common treatments such as methylphenidate and dextroamphetamine has led to the development of long-acting, delayed release formulations of these drugs. Certain individuals with ADHD prefer long-acting stimulant compounds, as they often require only one daily dose, making it more difficult to forget to take the medication.

Desoxypipradrol is not specifically listed as a controlled drug in any country at the present time, but its structural similarity to the drug pipradrol makes it possible that it would be considered a controlled substance analogue in several countries such as Australia and New Zealand."

"Methamphetamine also known as metamfetamine (INN), methylamphetamine, N-methylamphetamine, and desoxyephedrine) is a psychostimulant and sympathomimetic drug. Methamphetamine enters the brain and triggers a cascading release of dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine. It is highly active in the mesolimbic reward pathways of the brain, inducing intense euphoria, with risk for addiction. To a lesser extent, methamphetamine acts as a dopaminergic and adrenergic reuptake inhibitor with high concentrations serving as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor."

"Amphetamine (amfetamine (INN)) is a psychostimulant drug that is known to produce increased wakefulness and focus in association with decreased fatigue and appetite. Amphetamine is related to drugs such as methamphetamine and dextroamphetamine, which are a group of potent drugs that act by increasing levels of norepinephrine, serotonin and dopamine in the brain, inducing euphoria."

There is truely no chemical relation between 2-DPMP and amphetamines of any type. Of course a 7 panel drug test would not screen for 2-DPMP since its not even an illegal substance. Even if it was illegal a 7 panel drug test would not have the ability to detect obscure illegal chemicals or there metabolites. For example the illegal chemical 2C-B, 2C-T-7, 5-MeO-DIPT, 4-Methylaminorex, or Dimethyltryptamine to name just a few would not be detected by that type of drug test. Many of the uncommon illegal chemical drugs there are no screens yet available that don't require GC/MS or similar technical analysis.

Also this should help you better understand drug tests:
"The SAMHSA-5 #
Federal government guidelines (by SAMHSA-the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration) require that companies which use commercial class drivers licenses for employees must have a testing system in place. Among other things, this required testing program must test for 5 specific categories of drugs (referred to as the "SAMHSA 5", previously called the "NIDA-5"). Because of this federal requirement, most drug testing companies offer a basic drug test that checks for drugs in these 5 common categories. Click on the substance name for a description of the laboratory method for detecting the substance.


Cannabinoids (marijuana, hash)
Cocaine (cocaine, crack, benzoylecognine)
Amphetamines (amphetamines, methamphetamines, speed)
Opiates (heroin, opium, codeine, morphine)
Phencyclidine (PCP)
Expanded Tests
Most drug testing companies also offer an expanded test which includes a few additional drug classes and specific drugs in the testing process. Most do not add all of these in their expanded test, but choose a different combination of 3 or 4 to add :


Barbiturates (Phenobarbital, Secobarbitol, Butalbital)
Hydrocodone (Lortab, Vicodin)
Methaqualone (Quaaludes)
Benzodiazepines (Valium, Xanax, Librium, Serax, Rohypnol)
Methadone
Propoxyphene (Darvon compounds)
Ethanol (Alcohol)
MDMA (Ecstasy)
Additional Testables
In addition, there are a few other substances which it is possible but quite unusual to test for. I only found reference to testing for these additional substances at 1 (out of 15) drug testing sites :


LSD
Tryptamines (Psilocybin, AMT, DMT, DPT, 5-MeO-DiPT)
Phenethylamines (Mescaline, MDMA, MDA, MDE, 2C-B, 2C-T-7)
Inhalents (Toluene, Xylene, Benzene)"
 
Start a new thread this getting too far afield. I suggest you go to the politics section so that futurepilot can add in his socialist utopian big government two cents (ie. we could have Barry O appoint Acorn workers clad in golden armor carrying swords of truth riding unicorns to cleanse the unclean elements of the business community in the name of the commerce clause)

my armor is rusty and my horse is old, but sign me up!!!:cheers:
 
This thread is geetting a lot of views in a short time I know i am new here is there a way to make Slim S/X a stickey at least till we get solid info from A/X
 
straight facts:

Aspartame & Methanol
"19 gm aspartame, the equivalent of one teaspoon sugar yields 1.9 gm methanol. * One liter of most aspartame sweetened soft drinks contain about 55 mg. methanol. * Methanol concentrations in aspartame-sweetened beverages increase with heating and during prolonged storage. * The amount of methanol ingested by heavy consumers of aspartame products could readily exceed 250 mg. daily (Monte l984)."


Fruits and methanol:


Lindinger W, Taucher J, Jordan A, Hansel A, and Vogel W
Alcoholism, clinical and experimental research 21(5):939-43, 1997 Aug

"After the consumption of fruit, the concentration of methanol in the human body increases by as much as an order of magnitude. This is due to the degradation of natural pectin (which is esterified with methyl alcohol) in the human colon. In vivo tests performed by means of proton-transfer-reaction mass spectrometry show that consumed pectin in either a pure form (10 to 15 g) or a natural form (in 1 kg of apples) induces a significant increase of methanol in the breath (and by inference in the blood) of humans. The amount generated from pectin (0.4 to 1.4 g) is approximately equivalent to the total daily endogenous production (measured to be 0.3 to 0.6 g/day) ..."

Thank you for clarifying your statement and the solid facts that you have put together.
 
Panel 10 Tests have been tested 3 times and passed all 3 while ON THESE PILLS.

Compound Concentration(ng/ml)

COCAINE

Benzoylecgonine
300

Cocaine HCl
780

Cocaethylene
12,500

Ecgonine HCl
32,000



AMPHETAMINE

D-Amphetamine
1,000


L-Amphetamine
50,000

(±)3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine
2,000

Phentermine
3,000



METHAMPHETAMINE


ρ-Hydroxymethamphetamine
30,000

L-Methamphetamine
8,000

(±)-3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine
2,000

MARIJUANA (THC)

11-nor-∆9 -THC-9 COOH
50

Cannabinol
20,000

11-nor-∆8-THC-9 COOH
30

∆8 –THC
15,000

∆9 -THC
15,000

METHADONE

Methadone
300

Doxylamine
50,000

OPIATES (2000)

Morphine
2,000

Codeine
2,000

Ethylmorphine
5,000

Hydrocodone
12,500


Levophanol
75,000

6-Monoacetylmorphine
5,000

Morphine 3-β-D-glucuronide
2,000

Norcodeine
12,500

Normorphone
50,000

Oxycodone
25,000

Oxymorphone
25,000

Procaine
150,000



PCP

Phencyclidine
25



BARBITURATES

Secobarbital
300

Amobarbital
300

Alphenol
150

Aprobarbital
200


Butalbital
2,500

Butethal
100

Cyclopentobarbital
600

Pentobarbital
300

Phenobarbital
100



BENZODIAZEPINES

Oxazepam
300

Alprazolam
196

a-Hydroxyalprazolam
1,262

Bromazepam
1,562

Chlordiazepoxide
1,562

Chlordiazepoxide HCI
781

Clobazam
98

Clonazepam
781

Clorazepate dipotassium
195

Delorazepam
1,562

Desalkylflurazepam
390

Diazepam
195

Estazolam
2,500

Flunitrazepam
390

Tricyclic

Notriptyline 1,000
Nordoxepine 1,000
Trimipramine 3,000
Amitriptyline 1,500
Promazine 1,500
Desipramine 200
Imipramine 400
Clomipramine 12,500
Doxepine 2,000
Maprotiline 2,000
 
Great f*cking first post, mate!
:toofunny:

Thank You for the warm welcome. I figured I would enter the Anabolic world in a Blaze of Glory.

I enjoy long walks on the beach, I'm an aries, and I enjoy making fun of others who are less fortunate because I have a low self esteem and "daddy issues".

There, now we are no longer strangers.

I signed up last week because the AX issue got ZERO response from the company and/or reps on the "big website" so I wandered over here as I saw that a few of the reps sort of kind of responded with just enough vagueness to keep me interested.

I have used 3 bottles of Scam Xtreme, each with a different "feeling" and effect on the mind and body. Recently I was in the emergency room with uncomfortable while dull chest pains. I've never had them before so I was concerned. I have had the lower end of the "fantastic zone" of blood pressure levels (not sure the medical term for that area...but mine is better) all of my life so I was (un)pleasantly surprised to see that the BP was through the roof...Scam Xtreme being the only supplement I was taking other than some DEEEELIIICIOUS Xtreme Formulations Chocolate PB protein..and a Trader Joe's Multi-V.
Life was pretty good as I had won 3 dollars on a scratch off ticket and had some overly decent "berfday sex" with my 'pookie' that day...the only thing I could attribute it to was the use of Scam Xtreme...EKG was 'fine' (again, I forget the medical term...maybe "normal"?) so I went home..and like a jacka$$ I resumed taking Scam Xtreme as it truly was the only thing to give me that 'perk' to begin my 4am work shift every day.

Fast forward a month. I am an emotional wreck, my adrenal glands are toast and my body is a disaster.

I can not factually (at this point.....but trust me..things are being looked into) state that this is all SX's fault...I'd hate to make an orange pill my GW Bush-esque scapegoat..but I was taking nothing else, nor had previous issues EVER...

All that being said, here is what I believe. I could be way off...but maybe I am not.

I believe that SX has changed formulas repeatedly throughout its run. The first run was insanely fantastic. I saw little to no 'bad' effects being listed on any website or anyone I talked to personally. And, to me, it DID have almost EXACTLY the same effects as a 20mg generic amphetamine salt (non time released adderall). The first bottle and samples BLEW my mind. The energy lasted an EASY 9-10 hours with little or no crash or negative come down. I took another few months off of stims..bought another bottle and it was no where NEAR the same. The energy was no where near as clean and a nasty vile crash began at about the 4-5 hour mark...the mental and physical side effects began on this bottle too..but became worse with the final bottle.

I believe the First run and samples contained the perfect synergy..but would eventually be "found out" since it was, in fact, so perfect and potent..hence it got 'toned down'...the racetam was removed and the caffeine content was boosted, though not listed on the label...That's why I believe people are finding higher caffeine concentration in their lab samples now. The directions on the boxes and bottles as well as the ingredients on the bottles have been so FUBAR over the last few months that there is no clear consensus of anything in the product. The only physical changes I saw on the label were the 500mg shrunk to 450mg and the racetam was removed and replaced by apple juice and douche...which was supposedly (snort, cough, blah blah blah) supposed to have the same effect as the powerful noortropic racetam.
Unfortunately, if you believe that apple juice + douche has the same effects as racetams, well, then you probably also bought into all that "hopey changey" bullsh*t that Captain Manchurian was peddling last year, and there is no hope for you anyways.

My babbling point is this...I believe they knew exactly what was in it from the get go, but tried to 'suavely' and 'slowly' change out ingredients before they became 'found out'..all while promising the release of the infmaous 'study' or flow chart or whatever the fack b.s. the drones were told to pedal to us on them thar message boards..thus satisfying our curiosity as to why it seemed to be changing..or seemed to be effective...or seemed to cause a growing number of people to be mentally unstable as a result of using the product...Again, I believe the first run was the perfect synergy working together (even if there was a designer drug in it) that could, at the time, mask and avoid short term problems such as a 'crash' etc..but when they started fooling with the combo things went awry and have spiralled in to the subsequent studies and the mess we are currently in..with all of us clueless, while all of "them" have jetted with Neve Campbell, matt dillon and kevin bacon on a sail boat in the middle of the Atlantic (name that tune....)...

Then again, I could be wayyyyyy off, but with "them" remaining silent ( I assume working ever harder on their study and flow chart) we have nothing else....

"But you don't have to take my word for it....read the book dundundun (cue lavar burton)" (another crappy pop culture reference from my childhood..please accept my appologeeze)

The blame can't reside completely with AX. They are salesman. If they intentionally lied to us, they are scum and theirs will "come to them"..whatever the hell that means these days..karma..yaddah yaddah...if it was a mistake, then hopefully they are still able to 'right' the situation.
Blame also lay somewhat on my own shoulders as I blindly trusted a company to ingest something made by people I have never met or talked to other than with key strokes. As G.Bush famously once said, "Fool me again shame on once. Fool me once more, that's twice ashaming hehehehe" or something like that...

Take it as you wish...but there are more people "looking into this" at the moment..so more to come...

And good to be here...you fellas and wimminz seem pretty straight up on this side of the bodybuilding interwebz...may be hanging out here more often. There are only so many pictures of 'lol cats' and usage of the word 'brah' that one man can take.

Cheers
 
That is good news just wandering what the number below the drug mean



Panel 10 Tests have been tested 3 times and passed all 3 while ON THESE PILLS.

Compound Concentration(ng/ml)

COCAINE

Benzoylecgonine
300

Cocaine HCl
780

Cocaethylene
12,500

Ecgonine HCl
32,000



AMPHETAMINE

D-Amphetamine
1,000


L-Amphetamine
50,000

(±)3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine
2,000

Phentermine
3,000



METHAMPHETAMINE


ρ-Hydroxymethamphetamine
30,000

L-Methamphetamine
8,000

(±)-3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine
2,000

MARIJUANA (THC)

11-nor-∆9 -THC-9 COOH
50

Cannabinol
20,000

11-nor-∆8-THC-9 COOH
30

∆8 –THC
15,000

∆9 -THC
15,000

METHADONE

Methadone
300

Doxylamine
50,000

OPIATES (2000)

Morphine
2,000

Codeine
2,000

Ethylmorphine
5,000

Hydrocodone
12,500


Levophanol
75,000

6-Monoacetylmorphine
5,000

Morphine 3-β-D-glucuronide
2,000

Norcodeine
12,500

Normorphone
50,000

Oxycodone
25,000

Oxymorphone
25,000

Procaine
150,000



PCP

Phencyclidine
25



BARBITURATES

Secobarbital
300

Amobarbital
300

Alphenol
150

Aprobarbital
200


Butalbital
2,500

Butethal
100

Cyclopentobarbital
600

Pentobarbital
300

Phenobarbital
100



BENZODIAZEPINES

Oxazepam
300

Alprazolam
196

a-Hydroxyalprazolam
1,262

Bromazepam
1,562

Chlordiazepoxide
1,562

Chlordiazepoxide HCI
781

Clobazam
98

Clonazepam
781

Clorazepate dipotassium
195

Delorazepam
1,562

Desalkylflurazepam
390

Diazepam
195

Estazolam
2,500

Flunitrazepam
390

Tricyclic

Notriptyline 1,000
Nordoxepine 1,000
Trimipramine 3,000
Amitriptyline 1,500
Promazine 1,500
Desipramine 200
Imipramine 400
Clomipramine 12,500
Doxepine 2,000
Maprotiline 2,000
 
...

My babbling point is this...I believe they knew exactly what was in it from the get go, but tried to 'suavely' and 'slowly' change out ingredients before they became 'found out'..all while promising the release of the infmaous 'study' or flow chart or whatever the fack b.s. the drones were told to pedal to us on them thar message boards..thus satisfying our curiosity as to why it seemed to be changing..or seemed to be effective...or seemed to cause a growing number of people to be mentally unstable as a result of using the product...Again, I believe the first run was the perfect synergy working together (even if there was a designer drug in it) that could, at the time, mask and avoid short term problems such as a 'crash' etc..but when they started fooling with the combo things went awry and have spiralled in to the subsequent studies and the mess we are currently in..with all of us clueless, while all of "them" have jetted with Neve Campbell, matt dillon and kevin bacon on a sail boat in the middle of the Atlantic (name that tune....)...

Then again, I could be wayyyyyy off, but with "them" remaining silent ( I assume working ever harder on their study and flow chart) we have nothing else....

"But you don't have to take my word for it....read the book dundundun (cue lavar burton)" (another crappy pop culture reference from my childhood..please accept my appologeeze)

The blame can't reside completely with AX. They are salesman. If they intentionally lied to us, they are scum and theirs will "come to them"..whatever the hell that means these days..karma..yaddah yaddah...if it was a mistake, then hopefully they are still able to 'right' the situation.
Blame also lay somewhat on my own shoulders as I blindly trusted a company to ingest something made by people I have never met or talked to other than with key strokes. As G.Bush famously once said, "Fool me again shame on once. Fool me once more, that's twice ashaming hehehehe" or something like that...

...

Cheers

1st bold - If you mean name that movie, Wild Things. That movie is in my top 10 FOREVER. Sexiest movie ever.

2nd bold - "Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. If fool me, ya can't get fooled again."

LMAOOOO. Dude if there is one Bush address quote out of all them, this my friend is THEEE best everrr next to silent shoe dodge LMAOOO. It will NEVER get old, ever. I don't know what's funnier, the quote or the fact that he says it's an old saying in Texas. LMAO omg. Thanks for cheering up my night.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A"]YouTube - Bush "Fool Me Once..."[/ame]


Sorry I know this thread is getting a little off topic, but I had to respond to his challenge.
 
CheathamHill,

i don't think that the racetam in the original formula did anything. assuming that there were 50 mg aniracetam, this amount would perhaps be good enough to make a fruitfly "jacked", but humans would need to take a 10x - 20x fold higher dose in order to get a noticable effect. that's a t least the official recommendation from the pharmaceutical company that makes aniracetam.

Moreover, while you could certainly be spot on with your assumption that the formula steadily changed in order to escape identification of the "wonder-drug", there are two things that speak against it:

1. stimulatory experience may change after repeated use of a stimulant. I guess that people who take cocaine for the first time in their life will have a very different experience than after their 500th dose?

2. The company itself (Anabolic Xtreme) recently incorporated a name of a designer substance ("Phenyl-Pyrrolidinyltoluene") in their newest product label incarnation that appears to be structurally extremely close to (if not the same as) the designer drug that was uncovered at different forums (Diphenylmethylpyrrolidine).

IMO, the "best case" scenario for AX is that "Phenyl-Pyrrolidinyltoluene" is structurally different than the other mentioned designer drugs, that it would not fall under the gov. analog act and that it would also be DSHEA compliant, as their chief marketing officer repeatedly claimed that this substance naturally occurs in carrots and tobacco plants.

I see following possible ways how things may have evolved:

- AX only "believed" (in a delusional meaning of the word) that they had their hands on the holy grail of stimulants that was novel + legal, but in reality they got fooled and tricked by their raw material supplier or their formulator. They realized that they got fooled after GC/MS data got published around the internet showing almost complete match between the mass spectra of the substance in SX and the designer drug.

-AX knew from the beginning what they are doing and deliberately decided to "spike" the product with a designer stimulant that works better than ritalin. now they got caught with their pants down and spontaneously decided to start a sailing tour with madonna, bono and matt dylon, somewhere in the bermudas.

- AX was right all the way, and the mass spectra were faked or wrongly interpreted. There is no designer drug in SX but a natural substance that was distilled from carrots, and AX has a patent pending on this. Personally I WISH that this last optine were true. But it is almost impossible to believe in this option, since AX decided to stop production of SX after the mass spectra got around the interwebz. Stopping production sounds much like "s hit, I got caught, let's stop production, so FDA won't get on us".
 
the problem is not with something people don't recognize, but actually with the designer drug that has been recognized through GC/MS tests.


nobody attacks you about the patent, but recalling SX can only mean that you guys either didn't know what is in it or that you knew exactely and now you are quickly going to make a new batch without the designer drug in order to avoid trouble with DEA and FDA.

lol

I actually bought a bottle of slim when I realized it was being "discontinued"
My buddy gave me his old bottle because he couldn't handle it. I tried it and I loved it.
When I heard about it being discontinued, I had to grab a bottle.

My new bottle that I recieved has an updated label. Is anyone aware of this?
(Proline Analog - phenyl-pyrrolidinyltoluene, 5 hydroxytryptophan)
I bought this new bottle from my friends supplement store. They still get fresh slim xtreme daily. I though it was supposed to be "discontinued" :wtf1:
 
lol

I actually bought a bottle of slim when I realized it was being "discontinued"
My buddy gave me his old bottle because he couldn't handle it.
My new bottle that I recieved has an updated label. Is anyone aware of this?
(Proline Analog - phenyl-pyrrolidinyltoluene, 5 hydroxytryptophan)
I bought this new bottle from my friends supplement store. They still get fresh slim xtreme daily. I though it was supposed to be "discontinued" :wtf1:

It wasn't formally pulled from the market, production was stopped pending test due to speculations.
 
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