Sleep Supplement to STAY asleep

thebigt

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lol...amazing all the different stuff guys are using for sleep....

the neuro melatonin is working really well for me but when i know i can sleep late i take a mirtazapine 15mg broke in half [7.5mg] knocks me the fvck out--but the drawback of more than occassional use is weight gain.
 
rodefeeh

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Reporting back on my Melatonin Extended Release 5mg experience.

Without it - averaging 45 min deep sleep
With it - averaging 85 min deep sleep

I get almost double the amount of deep sleep with the Melatonin. I can definitely feel the difference the next day. I still do not have a reduction in waking up at night though. When I make my next DPS purchase, I'll probably try out SNS Sleep Assist XT. I'll also talk about this with a new doctor later in the year.

Thanks to all of those who responded with their recommendations!
 
KvanH

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Wow, for someone who's been battling with sleep issues for years, that's pretty awesome result with such a 'benign' supplement (not harsh like Phenibut or Bentzos etc.)

Not sure if you covered this already, but can you fall back asleep quickly when you wake up during the night? Cause' I saw this sleep expert say it's normal to wake up during the night a few times, but if you can fall back asleep pretty quick (like immediately - couple minutes), then it's nothing to worry about. This just to ease your mind, if you stress about the waking up.
 

thanosnap

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I've come across Andrew Huberman, a neuroscientist at Stanford, because he's done rounds on popular podcasts (Joe Rogan, MPMD, Mark Bell Power Project, Rich Roll, Lewis Howes, Lex Friedman, Be Inspired) and done a lot of research on sleep. His sleep stack is as follows:
"For those that want to explore supplements and how they can impact sleep, this combination of about 300-400 mg of magnesium threonate or bisglycinate, 50 mg of apigenin (a chamommile extract), and 100-200 mg of theanine alone or in combination have been beneficial to many people, and there are excellent studies to support those statements."

And to the OP @rodefeeh he did a 3 minute podcast segment here on your specific issue:
 
rodefeeh

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Wow, for someone who's been battling with sleep issues for years, that's pretty awesome result with such a 'benign' supplement (not harsh like Phenibut or Bentzos etc.)

Not sure if you covered this already, but can you fall back asleep quickly when you wake up during the night? Cause' I saw this sleep expert say it's normal to wake up during the night a few times, but if you can fall back asleep pretty quick (like immediately - couple minutes), then it's nothing to worry about. This just to ease your mind, if you stress about the waking up.
I fall back asleep pretty quick, but it really sucks walking to the bathroom 2x a night. It's in my head now that if I wake up, I have to go piss.
 

uncle-rico

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I have similar problems with waking up at night 1-2 times, needing to take a piss. I also take the usual supps before going to bed: ZMA, theanine, glycin, melatonin. I also made sure to stop drinking 1h before bedtime. But what really was a revelation to me, was when I started to take psyllium husks 1-2h before bedtime. I took them for some digestive issues at first, but it makes sense, they just bind a **** load of water and this really helped me to stay asleep and reduce the need to take a piss.
 

Jeremyk1

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I have similar problems with waking up at night 1-2 times, needing to take a piss. I also take the usual supps before going to bed: ZMA, theanine, glycin, melatonin. I also made sure to stop drinking 1h before bedtime. But what really was a revelation to me, was when I started to take psyllium husks 1-2h before bedtime. I took them for some digestive issues at first, but it makes sense, they just bind a **** load of water and this really helped me to stay asleep and reduce the need to take a piss.
That’s also fun because you can always wake up to an enormous dump. Feels good.

But along those lines, any carbs or even glycerol can help hold a little water. Could help reducing the amount one has to urinate.
 

Jeremyk1

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I've come across Andrew Huberman, a neuroscientist at Stanford, because he's done rounds on popular podcasts (Joe Rogan, MPMD, Mark Bell Power Project, Rich Roll, Lewis Howes, Lex Friedman, Be Inspired) and done a lot of research on sleep. His sleep stack is as follows:
"For those that want to explore supplements and how they can impact sleep, this combination of about 300-400 mg of magnesium threonate or bisglycinate, 50 mg of apigenin (a chamommile extract), and 100-200 mg of theanine alone or in combination have been beneficial to many people, and there are excellent studies to support those statements."

And to the OP @rodefeeh he did a 3 minute podcast segment here on your specific issue:
I’ve never noticed a difference with magnesium threonate versus other “good” forms of magnesium. Glycinate, taurate, even citrate all seem to work roughly equally for me. I am a fan of magnesium though, it seems to be under utilized for sleep.

Theanine didn’t seem to help my sleep until I got over 500mg, then it was excellent. Which is weird because it only takes about 200 to mess up a preworkout for me.

I’ve also been meaning to try apigenin. I’ve seen some interesting stuff about it. Hoping it may help me with deeper sleep.
 
KvanH

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I’ve never noticed a difference with magnesium threonate versus other “good” forms of magnesium. Glycinate, taurate, even citrate all seem to work roughly equally for me. I am a fan of magnesium though, it seems to be under utilized for sleep.

Theanine didn’t seem to help my sleep until I got over 500mg, then it was excellent. Which is weird because it only takes about 200 to mess up a preworkout for me.

I’ve also been meaning to try apigenin. I’ve seen some interesting stuff about it. Hoping it may help me with deeper sleep.
I think Huberman has affiliation with a company selling magnesium threonate product. But he also says, that glycinate works equally well. I also feel like citrate works well enough for me.
 
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rodefeeh

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More great info guys!

@uncle-rico, I already get in a ton of fiber with veggies/oats/dates throughout the day so I don't really need anymore, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try psyllium husks.

@Jeremyk1, I actually tried SNS Glycerpump before bed recently. It didn't seem to help. But whenever I have a sizeable pre-bed meal, I seem to sleep better. I can't remember if it limited bathroom trips. I think it mostly helps me sleep longer. Most of the time I wake up really hungry in the morning and can't go back to sleep when I could probably sleep for another hour.
 

thanosnap

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I think Huberman has affiliation with a company selling magnesium threonate product. But he also says, that bisglycinate works equally well. I also feel like citrate works well enough for me.
Yeah there are debates going on in that community over which form is best, but some of them seem to have some skin in that game. I'll throw Taurate in that list too. But one thing we do know is glycine helps with sleep too so I take the biglycinate form.

The "bad" forms of magnesium with poor absorption (magnesium oxide, magnesium citrate) irritate the bowels and work as a laxative. So, IMO as long as it's not giving you the runs it's good to go.
 
rodefeeh

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Here's a little update of my personal experiences over the past few months.

- Nothing so far keeps me from waking up 2x a night which I have found out is more common than previously thought.
- Nature's Bounty Extended Release Melatonin 5mg seems to work the best at helping me get more deep restful sleep. It will also increase my first stretch of nightly sleep from 3 to 4 hours before waking up for the first time.
- Being well fed from dinner or a late night snack gives me the greatest total hours slept for the night. Otherwise I wake up after 6-7 hours starving and can't go back to sleep. If I really gorge myself, I can sleep for 9 hours :)
- SNS Sleep Assist XT is great for helping you fall asleep but not much otherwise for me. I won't be purchasing this again as I don't normally have trouble falling asleep especially if I don't have have any afternoon caffeine. After sometime of taking Sleep Assist XT for the night, my head will feel like a bowling ball, so heavy to lift. It will increase deep sleep some but not as much as the extended release melatonin.
- Since I have Taurine on hand, I have used 3g pre-bed a few times. I don't really notice anything from this. I will continue to experiment a little more.
- I am considering purchasing MA Labs Stage-3Z down the road. Initial reviews seem good.

Bonus tidbit - currently reading Why We Sleep - FASCINATING!
 
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TheMrMuscle

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Im like you with getting up twice every night to pee. Only thing ive ever found that stops me from doing that is if I go super high on carbs the day before and not increase my water intake. But when i do that the quality of the sleep suffers. I wear trackers that tell me this and I also feel it myself. So i guess ill just be continuing to pee!
 
CATdiesel76

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500mg magnesium bisglycinate
SNS Sleep Assist
3zz is new and maybe my favorite for staying asleep and feeling super rested in the morning

delta 8 and thc will help you fall and stay asleep but if I’m not mistaken they are like alcohol in that they actually significantly reduce your sleep quality. But I guess sleep is better than no sleep
 
Kronic

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best way to stay asleep is probably eating carbs in close proximity to bed time. also I've been going outside around 9:00am and standing in the sun for a minute or so. close your eyes and look at the sun for a sec. look into "sunning" and other methods of natural vision correction if you are worried about it :)
 
CATdiesel76

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Sleep hygiene is definitely the best medicine. Early sunlight exposure, not eating too much before bed, not slamming water so you get up to piss every hour (guilty of this), limiting blue light. I will say that 3zz helps me fall asleep but doesn’t knock me out but it usually makes me feel more rested on less sleep than most
 
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