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Should i take a week off?

ChrisG2 said:
and you are sure not to do some reverse dieting like 100 calories a day? I read that a jump up to 2,300 could result in potential fat gain
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It wont. Not a 500kcal difference. But you can play it how you like.

Remember this, TDEE calculators are just that, calculations. They are never that accurate and in all actuality, youd be better of doing the calculation manually using BMR then activity factors. But even then its just an approximation.

Dont overthink it, just do what you feel comfortable with and wiggle calories back up.
 
Jiigzz said:
It wont. Not a 500kcal difference. But you can play it how you like. Remember this, TDEE calculators are just that, calculations. They are never that accurate and in all actuality, youd be better of doing the calculation manually using BMR then activity factors. But even then its just an approximation. Dont overthink it, just do what you feel comfortable with and wiggle calories back up.
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so you're saying the 500 jump is not significant enough to cause fat gain?
 
ChrisG2 said:
so you're saying the 500 jump is not significant enough to cause fat gain?
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You dropped by 500, so going back up by 500 isn't a big deal. I can see your scepticism however you just have to trust the process.

Often when people "cut" they do what I call the double hit. They INCREASE CARDIO (calorie expenditure) and DECREASE CALORIE INTAKE.

So lets create a hypothetical; a persons REAL TDEE determined through respiratory chambers is 2600kcals with their current exercise regime. They flip into diet mode and add in cardio (burning 300kcals per session) AND reduce calorie intake (by 500kcals) - all of a sudden their new TDEE is actually approx. 2900kcals and therefore a 500kcal deduction should be placed at 2400kcals instead of 2100kcals. However lets same the same person then used a computer based calculation to determine TDEE which placed them at 2400kcals instead of 2600kcals (because computer calculations are based SOLELY on numbers rather than real life variables), then they would place a 500kcal difference as 1900 instead of 2400kcal which is a whopping 1000kcal below actual TDEE.

Both additional training AND dieting are stressors to the body and produce hormonal cascades relating to reduced weight drop and in such cases, elevating calories reduces the deficit and can often reverse the negative hormonal changes which makes weight loss far more effective.
 
Jiigzz said:
You dropped by 500, so going back up by 500 isn't a big deal. I can see your scepticism however you just have to trust the process.

Often when people "cut" they do what I call the double hit. They INCREASE CARDIO (calorie expenditure) and DECREASE CALORIE INTAKE.

So lets create a hypothetical; a persons REAL TDEE determined through respiratory chambers is 2600kcals with their current exercise regime. They flip into diet mode and add in cardio (burning 300kcals per session) AND reduce calorie intake (by 500kcals) - all of a sudden their new TDEE is actually approx. 2900kcals and therefore a 500kcal deduction should be placed at 2400kcals instead of 2100kcals. However lets same the same person then used a computer based calculation to determine TDEE which placed them at 2400kcals instead of 2600kcals (because computer calculations are based SOLELY on numbers rather than real life variables), then they would place a 500kcal difference as 1900 instead of 2400kcal which is a whopping 1000kcal below actual TDEE.

Both additional training AND dieting are stressors to the body and produce hormonal cascades relating to reduced weight drop and in such cases, elevating calories reduces the deficit and can often reverse the negative hormonal changes which makes weight loss far more effective.
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That makes a lot more sense, thanks! I'm guessing keep my lifting at 3 x a week and keep my hiit at 3 x a week as well?
 
ChrisG2 said:
Planned on taking measurements tomorrow, what areas should i measure?
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This applies to calipers:
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Similar areas for a tape. What's important is measuring the same spots with the same relaxed posture.
 
ChrisG2 said:
Planned on taking measurements tomorrow, what areas should i measure?
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All relaxed.

I do arms (center of bicep)
Forearms (thickest part)
Thigh (center)
Calf (center)
Wrist (at base of hand)
Belly (at belly button)
Waist (on hip bones)
Chest (across nipples)
Bf%
Weight
 
Jiigzz said:
You dropped by 500, so going back up by 500 isn't a big deal. I can see your scepticism however you just have to trust the process.

Often when people "cut" they do what I call the double hit. They INCREASE CARDIO (calorie expenditure) and DECREASE CALORIE INTAKE.

So lets create a hypothetical; a persons REAL TDEE determined through respiratory chambers is 2600kcals with their current exercise regime. They flip into diet mode and add in cardio (burning 300kcals per session) AND reduce calorie intake (by 500kcals) - all of a sudden their new TDEE is actually approx. 2900kcals and therefore a 500kcal deduction should be placed at 2400kcals instead of 2100kcals. However lets same the same person then used a computer based calculation to determine TDEE which placed them at 2400kcals instead of 2600kcals (because computer calculations are based SOLELY on numbers rather than real life variables), then they would place a 500kcal difference as 1900 instead of 2400kcal which is a whopping 1000kcal below actual TDEE.

Both additional training AND dieting are stressors to the body and produce hormonal cascades relating to reduced weight drop and in such cases, elevating calories reduces the deficit and can often reverse the negative hormonal changes which makes weight loss far more effective.
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Very wise words. Ive screwed up previous exactly because of this. Also given yourself longer than a week at maintenance if you need to. Return to the cut feeling strong and healthy.
 
Measurements all in inches, all relaxed not flexed:
Waist: 34
Belly:31
Chest: 37.25
Wrist: 7
Calf: 15
Quad: 21
Arm: 13
 
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Pictures taken this morning, weighed in at 176.2. (I ate dinner literally right before bed so I'm thinking its weight from that as I've found to be heavier the next morning when I do this)
 
Dude, you've got huge potential!
Already have an aesthetic shape.
Add some lean mass over the next few months, and you'll be more than beach ready.
Best thing is to go hard at the gym (don't injure yourself!), and don't even look at the scale, use the mirror and measurements.
You could easily ADD 5 pounds and look more ripped.
The scale is your enemy, put it in a closet!
 
If it were me I would switch my focus from cut to recomp and pack on some muscle. I'd shoot for maintenance calories. I'd want to be at least 185 at 6 ft with your frame. Go for ripped
 
It seems like you're overthinking this Chris. First off, you're 16 and 175 pounds at 6'. Getting "abs" is the last thing you need to be worrying about right now.

You're in your prime stage for growth and should be trying to get as strong and big as you can while minimizing body fat gain - not doing an all out cut.

Judging by your picture, it's not like you're fat in the first place. You might not have crazy cut abs, but abs are pointless if you don't have much muscle anywhere else.

If I were you, I'd be eating at a surplus and just work on getting big and strong in the big lifts: bench, squat, deadlift, overhead press, cleans, and pull ups/rows.

Stick to mostly clean foods and just try to 'minimize' body fat gain, but measure your success by how strong you're getting and how much bigger your muscles are looking in the mirror - not just on what your abs look like.
 
JXiiXViii said:
It seems like you're overthinking this Chris. First off, you're 16 and 175 pounds at 6'. Getting "abs" is the last thing you need to be worrying about right now. You're in your prime stage for growth and should be trying to get as strong and big as you can while minimizing body fat gain - not doing an all out cut. Judging by your picture, it's not like you're fat in the first place. You might not have crazy cut abs, but abs are pointless if you don't have much muscle anywhere else. If I were you, I'd be eating at a surplus and just work on getting big and strong in the big lifts: bench, squat, deadlift, overhead press, cleans, and pull ups/rows. Stick to mostly clean foods and just try to 'minimize' body fat gain, but measure your success by how strong you're getting and how much bigger your muscles are looking in the mirror - not just on what your abs look like.
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These are all your opinions. He wants to be defined. Let him do what he wants. Eventually he will start to bulk up I'm sure. Not every one gives a sh*t how strong they get. Just sayin.
 
dbrock504 said:
These are all your opinions. He wants to be defined. Let him do what he wants. Eventually he will start to bulk up I'm sure. Not every one gives a sh*t how strong they get. Just sayin.
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What's the point of being "defined" if you have no muscle tone? This is a bodybuilding/strength forum. If you don't wanna be big and strong, you wouldn't be here.

It may be my opinion, but I would assume that I share that opinion with 99% of the people here. I don't know too many bodybuilders, strength athletes, or whatever you want to call us that JUST want definition without any muscles. Leave that **** to the Justin Biebers and other little boys who think abs are all that matters.
 
JXiiXViii said:
What's the point of being "defined" if you have no muscle tone? This is a bodybuilding/strength forum. If you don't wanna be big and strong, you wouldn't be here. It may be my opinion, but I would assume that I share that opinion with 99% of the people here. I don't know too many bodybuilders, strength athletes, or whatever you want to call us that JUST want definition without any muscles. Leave that **** to the Justin Biebers and other little boys who think abs are all that matters.
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Again, your opinion. Some people want to be powerlifters with little aesthetic appeal while others want to compete in physique. It's all dependent on what someone wants. I agree that he should pack on muscle, but he's 16. He wants abs to show off in the summer time to the high school chicks. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't give you or anyone else grounds to sit there and tell him that he needs to quit cutting and needs to focus on strength. Different people have different goals. I'm 5'9 4 lbs lighter than this kid but have a 4" bigger chest, 3" bigger legs, 2" bigger arms same belly and wait and a 4 pack but I'm not going to tell him how his physique should be. It's his physique. Hell, he's only 16. How much muscle mass can you expect for a kid anyways?

Again chris, do what you want. It all takes a lot of time. You're only 16. Achieve your goals, whatever they may be.
 
dbrock504 said:
Again, your opinion. Some people want to be powerlifters with little aesthetic appeal while others want to compete in physique. It's all dependent on what someone wants. I agree that he should pack on muscle, but he's 16. He wants abs to show off in the summer time to the high school chicks. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't give you or anyone else grounds to sit there and tell him that he needs to quit cutting and needs to focus on strength. Different people have different goals. I'm 5'9 4 lbs lighter than this kid but have a 3" bigger chest, 3" bigger legs, 2" bigger arms and a 4 pack but I'm not going to tell him how his physique should be. It's his physique. Hell, he's only 16. How much muscle mass can you expect for a kid anyways?

Again chris, do what you want. It all takes a lot of time. You're only 16. Achieve your goals, whatever they may be.
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I get what you're saying and yes he can do what he wants, but I think you can agree with me that if we could go back to 16, which is our prime growth years, we'd want someone telling us to use it to our advantage and giving us good advice.

I was lifting at 16 and had a good program due to being in football, but unfortunately I knew nothing about nutrition (they didn't stress it too much for some reason), and looking back, I could have made way more progress if I combined the two. I also didn't really do much reading on my own on sites like this, and I wish I did so I could have had someone telling me to get my **** together to make more progress.

Chris has a great resource here with a lot of us who have been where he is now, and if I didn't at least give my opinion so he has a different point of view, I feel like I'd be doing him a disservice.

He doesn't have to take my advice or any others, but I have a feeling that when he gets a few years down the road, he will have wanted to fully take advantage of gaining muscle while it's super easy to put on, as opposed to running his metabolism into the ground just to have abs.

Anyone can get abs by being super skinny - that doesn't take much work or dedication. Not everyone can be strong and built and still have low enough body fat to have abs too. That is what takes hard work and the right diet.

I wish I could go back to 16 and know what I know now. I'd be twice as big, strong, AND have ripped abs with it.

But the other thing that alarms me is that he's been dieting for so long and is already at very low calories and it sounds like progress is coming to a halt. That's a sign that his metabolic rate is also getting really low. I don't think I need to explain all the problems that go along with a compromised metabolism - not only physique-wise, but for his health as well.

It would benefit him in both ways to switch to a muscle building phase for a while to not only improve his physique, but his metabolism as well.
 
And I do agree with you. And my football team didn't tell us a single thing about nutrition either. Like I said he's only 16. I actually think he has a decent amount of muscle mass for his frame, age, experience, knowledge, etc. I was 125 lbs with no muscle at 16. But yes he needs to add muscle, and like I said I'm sure he will in time. It took me 7 years to get to my current weight (172) as well as my definition. Bodybuilding is a process. It takes time.
 
dbrock504 said:
And I do agree with you. And my football team didn't tell us a single thing about nutrition either. Like I said he's only 16. I actually think he has a decent amount of muscle mass for his frame, age, experience, knowledge, etc. I was 125 lbs with no muscle at 16. But yes he needs to add muscle, and like I said I'm sure he will in time. It took me 7 years to get to my current weight (172) as well as my definition. Bodybuilding is a process. It takes time.
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Yeah he does have a solid foundation going and I can tell he's got a good frame for putting on muscle.

That's part of where I'm coming from too. If he were a slob and looked like **** with his shirt off, I may say to cut some fat first, but it looks like his dieting has gotten him to a decent point and his body would probably respond well to a growth phase.

I don't want to throw too much information at you Chris, but you could also do a sort of "cyclical bulk" where you eat a bit above maintenance for say 4 weeks and work on just putting on muscle and strength, then go to a mini cut for a week or 2, then pick back up with the clean bulk.

During the 1-2 week mini cut, you would want to go very low carb, high protein, and moderate fat so that you cut as much body fat as possible but still have the calories to stave off muscle loss.

All of that is more of an advanced approach though and honestly, I think if you eat clean and slightly above maintenance, you will be fine.
 
Just a little update: I decided to take the whole month of February to stop tracking calories and what not and just eat when hungry ("clean" foods of course). It's been awesome, took pictures at the two week mark and no difference in terms of fat, but my lifts are through the roof. Today I maxed out my dumbell bench with the 100 pound dumbbells so I'm feeling like the man! Before I was only able to get 80 pound dumbbells for 3 reps. Also, my energy levels in general are much higher. I am yet to step on the scale again and do not even want to because I know my water weight will be way up with all the carbs I'm eating. Just wanted to thank you all again for your help and I'll keep updating.
 
ChrisG2 said:
I've been cutting for 10 months now and have recently hit a bit of a plateau. I lowered my calories from 2,000 down to 1,800 and started doing hiit and carb cycling. I'm so drained at times during the day so I was wondering if I should take about 5 days off and hit maintenance with "clean" foods, no cheating. I'm about 14% body fat and am wanting to get to 10% come summer time. I'm 175lbs, 6'0, and 16 years old. Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
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i would take a break. and when cutting again have 1-2 cheat days a week. and research "carb cycling for fatloss" might help out
 
ChrisG2 said:
Just a little update: I decided to take the whole month of February to stop tracking calories and what not and just eat when hungry ("clean" foods of course). It's been awesome, took pictures at the two week mark and no difference in terms of fat, but my lifts are through the roof. Today I maxed out my dumbell bench with the 100 pound dumbbells so I'm feeling like the man! Before I was only able to get 80 pound dumbbells for 3 reps. Also, my energy levels in general are much higher. I am yet to step on the scale again and do not even want to because I know my water weight will be way up with all the carbs I'm eating. Just wanted to thank you all again for your help and I'll keep updating.
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Good stuff. Sounds like that break from dieting is what you needed.

Don't worry about the scale so much either. Go by what you look like and how you feel. If you're getting stronger and don't look like you're putting any fat back on, you're on the right track so stick with it for a while.
 
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