Should I Hop Back on to B&C or finish PCT

[MastnotMass]

Hey guys, so I just did my first cycle which was a 20 week Test,Var, and LGD cycle (Var front end, LGD back end). I hopped off and just finished a 6 week Enclo 12.5mg PCT (HCG run throughout) but haven’t gotten bloods. Everything felt totally fine and nothing bad other than loosing some gains.

So here’s we’re it gets murky. I planned on taking another 2 months off and hoping back on but I just had a minor injury so I popped some LGD, Osta, and Enclo for a couple days to help, which it did. Now I’m thinking of just hopping back on for another 16 weeks and treating it like a blast and cruise.

My pros/reasoning for hoping back on:
1. Help keep training through the injury
2. I have a local competition this summer and if I take some more time off I’ll have to wait until fall (It’s amateur grappling and I actually don’t want to be on due to weight cutting/cardio)
3. Make the gains I wanted to before my first cycle because now I’m in a better life position to train my ass off (moved, better job, better gym, no gf, etc…)

Obviously my cons are will I be able to restore my HPTA? But here’s the reasons I’m using to convince myself it’ll be okay:
1. I’m 25 y/o athlete
2. Just did a mini PCT, so maybe some activation?
3. Taking HCG whole time first and second cycle
4. Add HMG at end of cycle and part of B&C PCT protocol
5. I’ll be doing test, mast, and tbol at 400/200/25. So no 19 nors
6. It’ll have been less than a year on cycles
7. Plan on using MK, Cerebrolysin, and Semax during PCT (For their performance but have also seen some correlative evidence these might help with HPTA
8. Using Tudca, Teliformin, and Metformin for other biomarkers, plus I do a ton of cardio and eat for micronutrient

P.S. I only hopped on the SARMs/Enclo for a few days now but if I decide to hop on I’ll keep going and add the Tbol on the back end.

So theoretically do you guys think I’ll restore my HPTA with all of my factors?

 

[FloridaMan]

It's always a 50/50 no one can answer that definitively.

The longer you are on though, the rougher it will be to recover.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I'm letting you know this now...I you hop back on you mine as well stay on because I highly doubt you'll be able to come off, whether you trt through a clinic or on your own your in the club..it's up to you what you wanna do I'm just letting you what I'm 99% sure will happen

 

[Hyde]

You will probably be able to recover to a point, but nobody can say conclusively and it’s more likely your recovery will be incomplete.

If you keep using, you should back off all of these orals (SARMs are orals too). I know you haven’t pulled bloods recently or you would see your lipids are off. You also need to consider the inevitable muscle loss you’ll take when you shift training to the grappling. If that is ideally coming, why further risk the HPTA now when it’s better to begin recovery and not carry the extra mass into the competition season?

Also, Teliformin isn’t a thing. Which tells me you either aren’t actually using some of these supports and looking for some kind of internet approval you don’t need, or you probably don’t need to be using them and you’re randomly taking drugs you might not need. There is nothing about your current scenario that would immediately suggest to me that you should be using Metformin, for example. You know more about you than I do, so I’m not saying you don’t have glucose management issues, but I want you to consider that everything you do/take has ramifications - just because you aren’t aware of them doesn’t mean they don’t happen.

 

[FloridaMan]

You will probably be able to recover to a point, but nobody can say conclusively and it’s more likely your recovery will be incomplete.

If you keep using, you should back off all of these orals (SARMs are orals too). I know you haven’t pulled bloods recently or you would see your lipids are off. You also need to consider the inevitable muscle loss you’ll take when you shift training to the grappling. If that is ideally coming, why further risk the HPTA now when it’s better to begin recovery and not carry the extra mass into the competition season?

Also, Teliformin isn’t a thing. Which tells me you either aren’t actually using some of these supports and looking for some kind of internet approval you don’t need, or you probably don’t need to be using them and you’re randomly taking drugs you might not need. There is nothing about your current scenario that would immediately suggest to me that you should be using Metformin, for example. You know more about you than I do, so I’m not saying you don’t have glucose management issues, but I want you to consider that everything you do/take has ramifications - just because you aren’t aware of them doesn’t mean they don’t happen.

I didn't even register the Teliformin thing lol... Got me rereading and this guy plans to use Cerebrolysin and Semax for pct? So brain drugs for Alzheimer's and strokes. I'm so lost, this guy is definitely taking random drugs.

 

[MastnotMass]

You will probably be able to recover to a point, but nobody can say conclusively and it’s more likely your recovery will be incomplete.

If you keep using, you should back off all of these orals (SARMs are orals too). I know you haven’t pulled bloods recently or you would see your lipids are off. You also need to consider the inevitable muscle loss you’ll take when you shift training to the grappling. If that is ideally coming, why further risk the HPTA now when it’s better to begin recovery and not carry the extra mass into the competition season?

Also, Teliformin isn’t a thing. Which tells me you either aren’t actually using some of these supports and looking for some kind of internet approval you don’t need, or you probably don’t need to be using them and you’re randomly taking drugs you might not need. There is nothing about your current scenario that would immediately suggest to me that you should be using Metformin, for example. You know more about you than I do, so I’m not saying you don’t have glucose management issues, but I want you to consider that everything you do/take has ramifications - just because you aren’t aware of them doesn’t mean they don’t happen.

Lol that was a typo I meant Telmisartan, mixed it with Metformin when I looked up how to spell correctly. Was taking it as my BP was high on cycle but not taking it since I got off. And the Metformin was because I was taking MK677 during PCT for the anti-catabolism but have had some glucose problems from CJC/IPA peptides in the past.

i do definitely agree with you on the orals for liver protection in the future which is why I don’t drink. Also I’m most likely just going to continue with staying off for the next few months before doing a short SARMs cycle before competition, honestly I wanted to put on size and compete with some of the bigger boys but we’ll see how far I get on SARMs (Damn near all those guys are on real gear tho lol). It does suck though because I do like SARMs for specific reasons but the liver toxicity is a bummer.
P.S. You’re right on with the bloodwork, been planning lost PCT so probably in 6 weeks.

Also P.S. what do you mean by recovery incomplete from PCT from blasting and cruising? I definitely understand nobody can say forsure and I’m not trying to argue but my thought process is I’ve never read anywhere of people not recovering from a B&C unless it contained 19nors or they did a garbage PCT. Have you ever heard of someone doing a B&C with only DHT/test and a proper long term PCT and not be okay? Again I’m really just trying to get more prospective from peoples experience on the subject and probably won’t be B&C for some time.

 

[MastnotMass]

I didn't even register the Teliformin thing lol... Got me rereading and this guy plans to use Cerebrolysin and Semax for pct? So brain drugs for Alzheimer's and strokes. I'm so lost, this guy is definitely taking random drugs.

Lol my bad I meant Telm

I didn't even register the Teliformin thing lol... Got me rereading and this guy plans to use Cerebrolysin and Semax for pct? So brain drugs for Alzheimer's and strokes. I'm so lost, this guy is definitely taking random drugs.

Lol my bad I meant Telmisartan, was mixing the two spellings in my head. I had high BP on cycle and wanted to play it safe. Also the Cerebrolysin and Semax aren’t for PCT, Ive had concussions in the past and Semax has really helped my ADHD in the past so it’s more of a “nuero-enhancement” cycle during my post AAS cycle. That was just a little hypothesis I had that it may do something for your HPTA, honestly should’ve just made a separate post.

Anyway I get how it’s confusing but we’re also talking over the course of a year and trying different compounds for different things. My rule for myself is no more than 3 compounds and 3 ancillaries at a time. I do plan on just sticking the course now though and staying off and PCTing and not just jumping right into more ****.

 

[MastnotMass]

Even though you're young there's a good enough chance you won't get full hpta recovery from a 32 week blast and cruise that I wouldn't do it. You haven't had bloods recently and your tendency seems to be to throw a lot of random drugs at the situation. At your age I'd be much more cautious and use the minimum required to meet reasonable non-insecurity-driven goals to postpone trt for as long as possible. Don't look to the internet for approval and validation to take unnecessary health risks when nobody else will have to deal with the consequences.

You know what, now what I wanted to hear but solid advice man. I’m definitely being stupid and am just gunna stay the course and wait a few months with bloods. I think I just got really demoralized with this injury.

 

[MastnotMass]

It's always a 50/50 no one can answer that definitively.

The longer you are on though, the rougher it will be to recover.

Forsure man, I plan on staying the PCT course now. But like I said to the other guy, I’m trying to get some more perspective on the subject. All I’ve really seen is either successful long B&C with long term, we’ll thought out PCTs or horror stories but they either fucked up with 19nors not getting out of their system forever, or did a garbage PCT. Have you ever heard of someone younger just doing test/dht with a proper long term PCT not be okay? Also what about people getting off trt? I know it’s hard to say because usually they already had low T but people get off all the time. And that brings up another question is what does it really matter if I was lower, maybe from 700ng pre cycle to 500ng post cycle if I feel fine?

Again I probably won’t be B&C for some time as I don’t have these answers but I’m just trying to find some more perspectives.

 

[MastnotMass]

I'm letting you know this now...I you hop back on you mine as well stay on because I highly doubt you'll be able to come off, whether you trt through a clinic or on your own your in the club..it's up to you what you wanna do I'm just letting you what I'm 99% sure will happen

Why are you so sure? Don’t people come off of B&C all the time and they’re fine? I know some people don’t but like in my other responses I usually only see horror stories that fucked with 19nors and or did a garbage pct, or they’re over 40. Have you ever heard a young person coming off of a test/dht b&c with a proper pct that didn’t recover? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but the majority on the subs seem like they do. Is it the unlucky few? Do we/I just not hear about them?

P.S. I’m actually staying on PCT but these are answers that I’ve never really heard discussed.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Why are you so sure? Don’t people come off of B&C all the time and they’re fine? I know some people don’t but like in my other responses I usually only see horror stories that fucked with 19nors and or did a garbage pct, or they’re over 40. Have you ever heard a young person coming off of a test/dht b&c with a proper pct that didn’t recover? I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but the majority on the subs seem like they do. Is it the unlucky few? Do we/I just not hear about them?

P.S. I’m actually staying on PCT but these are answers that I’ve never really heard discussed.

I was just saying 90% of people that b and c end up on trt. The longer you b and c the harder it will be to come off not just physically but mentally but if you're okay with that then go for it. That's not a life altering decision I would want a 25 year old to make. I'm glad your sticking to your pct. Gear isn't going anywhere and neither is trt so save that for down the road, if your still into this in 5 years I would b and c my balls right off during my 30s

 

[FloridaMan]

Lol my bad I meant Telm


Lol my bad I meant Telmisartan, was mixing the two spellings in my head. I had high BP on cycle and wanted to play it safe. Also the Cerebrolysin and Semax aren’t for PCT, Ive had concussions in the past and Semax has really helped my ADHD in the past so it’s more of a “nuero-enhancement” cycle during my post AAS cycle. That was just a little hypothesis I had that it may do something for your HPTA, honestly should’ve just made a separate post.

Anyway I get how it’s confusing but we’re also talking over the course of a year and trying different compounds for different things. My rule for myself is no more than 3 compounds and 3 ancillaries at a time. I do plan on just sticking the course now though and staying off and PCTing and not just jumping right into more ****.

Yeah probably should have maybe either not listed those things or put them somewhere else in the list and said what they were for lol

 

[FloridaMan]

Forsure man, I plan on staying the PCT course now. But like I said to the other guy, I’m trying to get some more perspective on the subject. All I’ve really seen is either successful long B&C with long term, we’ll thought out PCTs or horror stories but they either fucked up with 19nors not getting out of their system forever, or did a garbage PCT. Have you ever heard of someone younger just doing test/dht with a proper long term PCT not be okay? Also what about people getting off trt? I know it’s hard to say because usually they already had low T but people get off all the time. And that brings up another question is what does it really matter if I was lower, maybe from 700ng pre cycle to 500ng post cycle if I feel fine?

Again I probably won’t be B&C for some time as I don’t have these answers but I’m just trying to find some more perspectives.

Yep happens all the time, you can't predict these things man.

Either your ready for the consequences or you aren't.

You could have permanently shut yourself down with your one cycle you did.

 

[Hyde]

Lol that was a typo I meant Telmisartan, mixed it with Metformin when I looked up how to spell correctly. Was taking it as my BP was high on cycle but not taking it since I got off. And the Metformin was because I was taking MK677 during PCT for the anti-catabolism but have had some glucose problems from CJC/IPA peptides in the past.

i do definitely agree with you on the orals for liver protection in the future which is why I don’t drink. Also I’m most likely just going to continue with staying off for the next few months before doing a short SARMs cycle before competition, honestly I wanted to put on size and compete with some of the bigger boys but we’ll see how far I get on SARMs (Damn near all those guys are on real gear tho lol). It does suck though because I do like SARMs for specific reasons but the liver toxicity is a bummer.
P.S. You’re right on with the bloodwork, been planning lost PCT so probably in 6 weeks.

Also P.S. what do you mean by recovery incomplete from PCT from blasting and cruising? I definitely understand nobody can say forsure and I’m not trying to argue but my thought process is I’ve never read anywhere of people not recovering from a B&C unless it contained 19nors or they did a garbage PCT. Have you ever heard of someone doing a B&C with only DHT/test and a proper long term PCT and not be okay? Again I’m really just trying to get more prospective from peoples experience on the subject and probably won’t be B&C for some time.

Incomplete recovery meaning you had total test levels at around 650 prior and now they’re usually 400s. Yes that can make a difference in recovery and how you feel, especially considering things only ever go down over a lifetime. I personally know a guy who took Superdrol for 4 weeks one single cycle when he was 21 and never recovered past 200ng/dl, and he had to be on TRT just to feel decent in his 20s. He was not a serious athlete or anabolic enthusiast, just a guy who bought a legal supplement at the local shop on a recommendation. It happens. In general, the more you cycle the more you will see your Natty total test levels creep down.

You also mentioned seeing what you can do with SARMs, yet you are already using testosterone. They don’t give out awards based on who took what or who used “less”. A man on a doctor-supervised 250/wk test protocol year round for his sports performance is probably going to make better longterm progress and suffer less health impact than rotating courses of SARMs.

Lastly, I want to impress that PEDs will help improve you, but in no way are they an equalizer in strength sport. I am about to do my 20th competition over the last decade, and I will tell you as fact that the most jacked guy is typically not the strongest/best. He is that jacked because he has great genetics for muscle size or because he isn’t gifted enough for performance and has had to really push his gear to try to drive any possible remaining performance out of his body. Increasing muscle size only increases strength POTENTIAL relative to yourself. This is why some of the strongest humans to have ever lived wouldn’t even catch your eye at the grocery store, but they possess brutal power.

If you want to roll with the heavyweights, eat up a little and kiss your current bodyfat goodbye. Gaining weight has significant positive consequences for leverage and strength, beyond any muscle gain. I’m not telling you to become a sumo wrestler, but I want to impress the importance of eating for recovery & the size you want to be, regardless of gear use. Food > gear.