Most of the conflicting opinions you will see, will b because M-Sten was originally marketed as the next SD. Which turned out to be false. I believe it is a solid compound, and will as strength and mass. But IMO a better route is SDMZ. 2-3 caps a day (2 is perfect for first run) for 4 weeks. I've seen it ran for 6 by some but I think at max 5 weeks is best. I've ran it twice, both for 4 weeks one at 2 caps ED and the other at 3. Great results and you can tailor them according to your diet. I bulked one cycle, went from 238 to 252 after PCT but diet wasn't clean so added extra BF. around 16%. My second run of 3 caps I stuck with maintenance cals and used it as a recomp and it was amazing. Went from 252 to 255 and body fat dropped to around 12-13 %. m-sten and dmz work amazing together. Just an option. Shut down wasn't to bad at all either so 4 andro or a test base wasn't needed for me in either cycle. But test always makes everything better.