Securing the homestead....

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tattoopierced1

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With all this talk about looters in LA and gas price hikes which will undoubtedly lead to increased food prices as well as other goods, I feel the need to take my right to bear arms in order to keep my family safe in case s#it hits the fan. I am looking into the Mossberg 500 Persuader 12ga pump action shotgun with a collapsable stock kit, pistol grip pump. Anyone else have some good suggestions other than a Mossberg? I am looking at one with a shorter barrel and can use a pistol grip and put front pump grip on. So far this one seems to be the best bang (no pun intended) for the buck.
 
Mossberg is a great shotgun...

For price though I don't think anything beats the Remington 870 Express in 12ga.

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MSRP is $332 but you should be able to find in gun shops for under $300.

BP
 
BigP0ppa3 said:
Mossberg is a great shotgun...

For price though I don't think anything beats the Remington 870 Express in 12ga.

Invalid Link Removed

MSRP is $332 but you should be able to find in gun shops for under $300.

BP
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it looks to have a longer barrel than what I was wanting. I am more looking into the assult type shotguns with the short barrels.

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with this kit:
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Well then let me show you the opposite end of the spectrum.

There isn't anything much better than a Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies

It's pricey but with firearms, you REALLY get what you pay for, and if you plan on using this for home defense, well it just doesnt get much better than this...

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what state do you live in?

some states (like mine, the Poeples Republic of New Jersey) pump action shotguns with pistol grips AND/OR colapable stock is classified as an assault weapon and youre not allowed to have one. make sure youre not breaking any laws before you go buy, becasue if you shoot someone with it they'll be dead and you'll be in jail for protecting your family. pretty shitty catch 22 but that is the world we live in.
 
BigP0ppa3 said:
Well then let me show you the opposite end of the spectrum.

There isn't anything much better than a Wilson Combat/Scattergun Technologies

It's pricey but with firearms, you REALLY get what you pay for, and if you plan on using this for home defense, well it just doesnt get much better than this...

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Damn that is sweet.

Pioneer: I'm in Indiana.
 
I like any incarnation of the Remington 870. A good choice (albeit more expensive) would be the Remington 870 Marine Magnum. Corrosion resistant, synthetic stock, good capacity, shorter barrel (important for close quarters engagements): Invalid Link Removed. Some might be concerned with the brighter finish of that weapon, but if it's only for home defense, it's not a problem (I've handled the weapon in person, and it's a matte, non-glossy finish that is not as bright as it looks online). You should be able to beat the MSRP by going to a local gun dealer. Doing a quick search online, the first link I clicked had it being sold for $480 brand new in box.

Mossberg makes decent guns, but I'll take an 870 over any Mossberg any day of the week.

The stock set you posted from Cabella's is nice, but it's not necessary for home defense; you can still shoot from the hip with a regular stock on the weapon, and if you need to fire multiple shots, you're going to want the weapon to be on your shoulder. The Marine Magnum is also short enough that a folding stock is not needed. A folding stock will take weight away from the weapon, meaning that recoil will be more of a factor. Finally, if you're not experienced with firearms, you are going to have a better chance of hitting the target dead center with the first shot if you fire from the shoulder. At short range, even with a Cylinder choke, shotgun patterns are not quite as wide as everyone thinks and in the heat of the moment when firing from the hip, it is very possible to miss. With the gun on your shoulder and looking down the barrel, it is much harder to miss. Just point at center mass and fire.

Good choice going with a pump, BTW. The sound that a pump action shotgun makes when a shell is racked into the chamber is unmistakable and most people will drop everything and run out of your house if they hear it.

How much are you looking to spend? There are other good choices, but they get more expensive.

/karp
 
Well, that all depends...I'd like to stay $400 or lower without any accessories maybe a bit more if I REALLY like the gun... so I'm looking at alot of the used forums for some deals. I definatly like the look of that gun though, but am leaning more toward a black one (just because I think they look cooler...no other difference...petty i know..)
 
That's exactly the one I was looking at that jkarp posted. I just bought a Ruger 22 semi-auto clip to shoot some groundhogs and skunks that have been giving me some problems latley with my garden, etc. I was thinking of also getting something for home security and that exact same gun (REM 870-marine-mag) caught my eye.
 
I hear you about the looks of a black gun, but the corrosion resistance of the MM is something to consider.

If price were no object and I wanted an all black gun, I'd go for a Benelli M4 or M2: Invalid Link Removed , Invalid Link Removed.

This M2 Tactical can be bought right away for $899 and is currently at $815 on an auction site: Invalid Link Removed. If you want to buy online, you have to find a local dealer with an FFL who will have the gun shipped to him, for which you pay a small fee. The M4 is even more, but it is a hot looking gun: Invalid Link Removed. I know these are more than you want to spend (and they're automatics). Benelli also makes a shotgun that can switch back and forth from pump to auto, which is really badass.

/karp
 
Beretta makes a decent riot gun, the 1201 FP. It is in your price range and has pretty much what youre looking for. Have also heard nothing but good things about the Rem 870 like these guys are saying.

"Pistol-grip pump on my lap at all times. They can be fuckin with other niggas **** but they cant be fuckin with mine"
 
well if youre going for a shotgun youre never going to find a shotgun made as good as Benelli Invalid Link Removed

remington comes at a close second though.

remember, meake sure the pistol grip and collapsable stock on shotguns are legal in your state.
 
Mossberg

Mossberg 500 is a really nice shotgun for the money. It's not fancy or pretty but I've had mine for about ten years, have ran 1000's of rounds through it without a problem. It was under $300. I've dusted a ton of clays with that bad boy (I've out-shot many a remmington with it):thumbsup:
 
FOCUS said:
Mossberg 500 is a really nice shotgun for the money. It's not fancy or pretty but I've had mine for about ten years, have ran 1000's of rounds through it without a problem. It was under $300. I've dusted a ton of clays with that bad boy (I've out-shot many a remmington with it):thumbsup:
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thats true, a weapon is only as good as it handler.

and just for the hell of it, guns dont kill people, people kill people.
 
A smart man would not have waited until there was news of social breakdown somewhere before he decided on owning firearms. A disaster could hit your neighboorhood tommorrow and you still wouldn't be prepared to fight if needed since you're still wondering what to buy. Never too late, I guess. But consider yourself lucky thus far.

My concern with a 12ga is (1) shot capacity and (2) precision. It's great if you know that all encounters will be within 20 yds, but what if you need to make shots from your rooftop or pick off a mob up the street before they reach your home? In a social breakdown scenario, my theory is you need shot capacity. I always keep my Winchester 1300 in the closet ready for action, but the first thing I go for is my M4 with trusty Glock 19 at the side. Lotta ammo there. Even though they're "small calibers," no one is gonna like getting hit in the torso with a 5.56mm or 9mm. And with the ACOG, 300 yard torso shots are easy.
 
All great in theory for those who want to spend thousands on an arsenal (of which I am one). But for most people, a pump shotgun is the best weapon for home defense.

/karp
 
Mossbergs are good guns, put personally I would go with the Remington 870. I had an Mossberg 500 when I was younger, it was well used, but I had alot of problems with empty rounds hanging up in the chamber when trying to eject them. One time I belly crawled 3/4 of a mile through a cornfield on a large group of geese, when I finally got within shooting range I jumped up to shoot and the first shot stuck in the chamber lol...that was alot of work for one damn goose!!!

I have used the same Remington 870 for around 6 years now and have had it so coated in mud, muck and water and it works like a charm through it all. They are very dependable guns. Right now I have a Browning Stalker Semi-Auto 10 gauge sitting by my bed, that should do the trick ;)
 
10 guage? That's a fucking land cannon.

I shot a 10 guage side by side one time loaded with 3.5 inch 00 buck. Those two shots would blow a cow in half.

/karp
 
Nate Dawg said:
Mossbergs are good guns, put personally I would go with the Remington 870. I had an Mossberg 500 when I was younger, it was well used, but I had alot of problems with empty rounds hanging up in the chamber when trying to eject them. One time I belly crawled 3/4 of a mile through a cornfield on a large group of geese, when I finally got within shooting range I jumped up to shoot and the first shot stuck in the chamber lol...that was alot of work for one damn goose!!!

I have used the same Remington 870 for around 6 years now and have had it so coated in mud, muck and water and it works like a charm through it all. They are very dependable guns. Right now I have a Browning Stalker Semi-Auto 10 gauge sitting by my bed, that should do the trick ;)
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No match for my remington 870 20 guage pump downstairs! it's little, but it has a whole lot of mean in it!
 
jrkarp said:
10 guage? That's a fucking land cannon.

I shot a 10 guage side by side one time loaded with 3.5 inch 00 buck. Those two shots would blow a cow in half.

/karp
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don't give him any ideas:ntome:
 
knox said:
No match for my remington 870 20 guage pump downstairs! it's little, but it has a whole lot of mean in it!
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The gun I actually keep under my bed is a Remington 870 20 guage youth model that I got for my 12th Birthday. I like it for home defense because it has a short barrel and short stock. The short barrel is much better for close quarters engagements because it swings quicker and because there is less for a bad guy to grab on to, and the short stock is good because I can get the gun to my shoulder quicker and easier. The 20 guage is nice because I live in an apartment and I have to consider collateral damage to other tenants if I need to shoot someone (and 20 guage at close range, pointed at a man's chest, is more than enough to be fatal, and if he gets up from a chest shot he's getting one in the head).

I'm looking into buying an M4 (the rifle, not the shotgun), but given the ballistics of the 5.56mm I wouldn't use it as a primary home defense weapon; the round is so small and fast I'm afraid of overpenetration. The M4 will be used if the **** ever really hits the fan.

/karp
 
jrkarp said:
The gun I actually keep under my bed is a Remington 870 20 guage youth model that I got for my 12th Birthday. I like it for home defense because it has a short barrel and short stock. The short barrel is much better for close quarters engagements because it swings quicker and because there is less for a bad guy to grab on to, and the short stock is good because I can get the gun to my shoulder quicker and easier. The 20 guage is nice because I live in an apartment and I have to consider collateral damage to other tenants if I need to shoot someone (and 20 guage at close range, pointed at a man's chest, is more than enough to be fatal, and if he gets up from a chest shot he's getting one in the head).

I'm looking into buying an M4 (the rifle, not the shotgun), but given the ballistics of the 5.56mm I wouldn't use it as a primary home defense weapon; the round is so small and fast I'm afraid of overpenetration. The M4 will be used if the **** ever really hits the fan.

/karp
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Maybe if you got some ballistic tips such as the Winchester Silvertip bullets for your .223 it wouldnt over penetrate, they pretty much shatter on impact, but I dont know for sure, they would probably still penetrate through a torso, only one way to find out really lol. I know the Winchester ballistic tips in a .270 wont completely pass through a deer. Thats what is nice about ballistic tips, since they usually dont exit the target, all of the energy in the bullet is left in the target, while for example a full metal jacket will usually always exit, meaning there is still energy left in the bullet and not all of it was transferred into the target. You wouldnt want something like the ballistic tip for bigger game such as elk or bear because it may not be able to penetrate as well through all the muscle, connective tissues and bone. A gaping exit hole is always cool though lol.
 
Well, I went and checked prices and looked at some different shotguns, and I think I am going to go with the Mossberg 500 Persuader 12ga. I can pick one up for $250 new, but am going to check the pawn shops to see if I can get one used for cheaper...
 
I'm not very knowledgable on guns, I am just beginning to look into them. My question about home security, is it better to have a shotgun as you guys are looking at, or a pistol? Im not sure which would prove to be better? Shotguns probably are much easier to hit a target in close range, but with a pistol you can fire many rounds at a longer distance keeping any chance of the other person grabbing the gun or possible throwing something at you. Just wondering what your opinions are on having one or the other.
 
snakebyte05 said:
I'm not very knowledgable on guns, I am just beginning to look into them. My question about home security, is it better to have a shotgun as you guys are looking at, or a pistol? Im not sure which would prove to be better? Shotguns probably are much easier to hit a target in close range, but with a pistol you can fire many rounds at a longer distance keeping any chance of the other person grabbing the gun or possible throwing something at you. Just wondering what your opinions are on having one or the other.
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well, with a shotgun, all you need is one hit and the person will more than likely die pretty fast...lol. With a pistol, yeah, more rounds, longer distance, but do you really want to have to keep firing at a burglar to kill him when he *may* have a gun as well? I know I wouldn't...I want to put that mutha out of comission asap. Legitimate question though, no doubt. ;)
 
snakebyte: the mossberg 500 persuader has a very short barrel, therefore less for someone to grab hold of. Plus, a pump action shotgun has the nice "cha-chink" when you cock it, letting whoever is in the house know the unmistakeable sound of a shotgun. You can also get pistol grip kits for them for better manuverability around corners. Plus the fact that you can pretty much point and shoot the shotgun whereas with a pistol, you have to aim more...i wear contacts so at night i cant see too well, with a shotgun, i dont have to worry about that so much. most shotguns hold 6-8 shells at once too, so if you miss once, you've still got more availible in the barrel.
 
snakebyte05 said:
I'm not very knowledgable on guns, I am just beginning to look into them. My question about home security, is it better to have a shotgun as you guys are looking at, or a pistol? Im not sure which would prove to be better? Shotguns probably are much easier to hit a target in close range, but with a pistol you can fire many rounds at a longer distance keeping any chance of the other person grabbing the gun or possible throwing something at you. Just wondering what your opinions are on having one or the other.
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Long range accuracy with a pistol is generally pretty bad unless you are an experienced shooter. If you are not experienced in shooting pistols, and you are suddenly confronted and need to shoot someone, you will have a tough time unless the person is right in front of you.

A big advantage to shotguns is that the individual pellets do not carry much energy and therefore are much less likely to overpenetrate and hit someone else. Pistol rounds (especially 9mm) can go right through people and if you miss, can go through walls. Hollow points are less likely to do so, but the danger is still there. If you go with a pistol, go with a .40 or (my choice) .45.

/karp
 
jrkarp said:
The gun I actually keep under my bed is a Remington 870 20 guage youth model that I got for my 12th Birthday. I like it for home defense because it has a short barrel and short stock. The short barrel is much better for close quarters engagements because it swings quicker and because there is less for a bad guy to grab on to, and the short stock is good because I can get the gun to my shoulder quicker and easier. The 20 guage is nice because I live in an apartment and I have to consider collateral damage to other tenants if I need to shoot someone (and 20 guage at close range, pointed at a man's chest, is more than enough to be fatal, and if he gets up from a chest shot he's getting one in the head).

I'm looking into buying an M4 (the rifle, not the shotgun), but given the ballistics of the 5.56mm I wouldn't use it as a primary home defense weapon; the round is so small and fast I'm afraid of overpenetration. The M4 will be used if the **** ever really hits the fan.

/karp
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It is a nice little gun. they are short and light. i can shoot it with one arm and can pump off 5 rounds at the hip with no problem. for in-the-home defense i think shotguns are the way to go. if someone decides to break in through my door i just have to get the barrell pointed in the general direction and give'm hell. plus the collateral damage will be minimal. Even with a small load dove load at 15yards would cause any thug to reconsider the value of his entry. Whereas nate dawg just wants to see how far he can blow body parts through his wall into the front yard lol.
as for pistols, they would be ideal to be a carry gun such as vacations and a stroll around the park. but when inside the home a shotgun is alot more noticable and can be seen better by the intruder and can definetly be heard when loading a shell in the chamber. Plus they would really hurt.
 
jrkarp said:
Long range accuracy with a pistol is generally pretty bad unless you are an experienced shooter. If you are not experienced in shooting pistols, and you are suddenly confronted and need to shoot someone, you will have a tough time unless the person is right in front of you.

A big advantage to shotguns is that the individual pellets do not carry much energy and therefore are much less likely to overpenetrate and hit someone else. Pistol rounds (especially 9mm) can go right through people and if you miss, can go through walls. Hollow points are less likely to do so, but the danger is still there. If you go with a pistol, go with a .40 or (my choice) .45.

/karp
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:thumbsup:

i use my .45 to kill spiders. works just as good as raid.
 
knox said:
It is a nice little gun. they are short and light. i can shoot it with one arm and can pump off 5 rounds at the hip with no problem. for in-the-home defense i think shotguns are the way to go. if someone decides to break in through my door i just have to get the barrell pointed in the general direction and give'm hell. plus the collateral damage will be minimal. Even with a small load dove load at 15yards would cause any thug to reconsider the value of his entry. Whereas nate dawg just wants to see how far he can blow body parts through his wall into the front yard lol.
as for pistols, they would be ideal to be a carry gun such as vacations and a stroll around the park. but when inside the home a shotgun is alot more noticable and can be seen better by the intruder and can definetly be heard when loading a shell in the chamber. Plus they would really hurt.
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Agreed, the shotgun is much better for home defense.

1) it is bigger and just that much more of an intimidation factor, which that alone may make it possible to where you dont have to fire a shot

2) the sound of a pump action jacking a shell in the chamber

3) wont penetrate through walls as much as a pistol would, reducing the risk of injuring innocent bystanders

4) I gaurantee a person that hasnt had much experience would have a much better chance of hitting someone at a longer range with a shotgun than a pistol. To the inexperienced user, pistols are extremely hard to be accurate at longer distances. As jrkarp said, unless the person is very experienced and has spent alot of time and practice with his handgun, they wont be able to be very accurate at a very far distance. I really dont shoot handguns much, but sometimes I take out the 9mm to mess around with and I cant hit **** with it lol, hell I missed a cat at like 5 yards lol, it was at a dead on sprint though... now I could probably hit a target as large as a persons torso from 40-50 yards or so, but it wouldnt be a very well placed shot. With such a short barrell they are very hard to aim. The shotgun will have a lot more "punch" to it, pretty much making it a gaurantee that the intruder wont be thinking about getting up for more even if he is able.

5) On the subject of the intruder grabbing the barrell of your shotgun, if they are close enough to grab your shotgun they will be close enough to grab your handgun too, and anyways, if they grab your shotty's barrell, pull the fucking trigger!!! I dont think many people will be ballsy enough to try and pry a shotgun pointed at their melon out of your hands anyways. Also if you are a terrible shot and just maim the intruder and run out of ammo, you can commence beating them with the shotgun, whereas a pistol wouldnt be as much fun having a homerun derby with lol.
 
Nate Dawg said:
Also if you are a terrible shot and just maim the intruder and run out of ammo, you can commence beating them with the shotgun, whereas a pistol wouldnt be as much fun having a homerun derby with lol.
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LMAO!!! :toofunny:
 
agreed for the most part. shotgun is the general weapon for home defense.

but i just want to shoot someone with my .45 hollow points. my aim is there. 10 out of 10 on a pie pan 30yds away.

it'd be fun :woohoo:
 
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