SD/Prostanz cycle

Smoky,

Has the libido taken a hit on this cycle? And has anyone else run the SD solo and then another cycle with the Pro in order to tell a difference in holding gains?
 
All systems are functional but the interest is not there, as I am focused on my goals and seasoned by divorce. I believe there may be some shrinkage but very slight at this point.
 
I'm really interested in seeing what this last week with just the prostan does for you in terms of holding/adding to gains, hardness, vascularity. I will be doing something similar with PP/Prostan beginning this weekend so will have my eye on your results for this last week of your cycle. Everything is looking great so far bro!
 
Dropped the SD today. Planning to run the Pro for 2 more weeks then I am closing the door on this cycle. Weight was up to 208 this morning.
 
Smoky said:
My PCT is looking like this:

4 weeks +supps

Nolvadex 40/40/20/10
ReboundXT 75/50/25/25
Fenugreek 3/4/5/6
AX_Retain
DHEA
addons:
pGH & Creatine

Supplements: Pre-cycle, during and into PCT
Multi Vitamin
Glucosamine
Flax seed oil
Hawthorne Berries
RYR
Saw Palmetto
Celery Seed
CoQ10
AX Perfect Cycle
Taurine
BCAA

I should have 6 months of pGH as soon as the xmas sale arrives from UniKits. Not sure on how I will apply it yet, but it appears to be ED in the am. Any input on the pGH is appreciated.
Click to expand...

Great log Smoky. Quick question just to be clear, are you only running the sd/prost/above listed supps during the cycle? No RXT or DHEA - those are only for PCT? I'm impressed that you're not having much suppression.
 
Smoky said:
Stats of interest
changes since 12/8/05

Tale of the tape 12/30/05:
thighs +1"
calves +1/4"
waist -1/2"
chest +1"
forearms +1/2"
upperarm +3/8"

Measurements seam to coincide with areas of largest strength gain as well. BP and Squat both did well. I will try to concentrate on arms this week, let's see if gains can be had in the fourth week.
Click to expand...

Update:
end of SD cycle, change since last tale of the tape.

207 lbs.
1/7/06 -------------------- total since start
thighs +1/2" ------------ + 1 1/2"
calves +1/4" ------------ + 1/2"
waist +3/4" ------------ + 1/4"
chest +1/2" ------------ + 1 1/2"
forearms +1/4" ---------- + 3/4"
upperarm +1/4" --------- + 7/8"
 
day 33

It's mid-week of the fifth week. First week of Pro solo for 2 weeks. I have dropped back down to 100mg of Pro for various reasons. My schedule has been hectic which has made dosage timing erratic. It seems faults first creep in as supplementation errors, then food intake levels suffer when schedule conflicts arise. So I am adjusting to maintain as much continuity as possible. I also felt no substantial effect above 100mg. keeping in mind I am also trying to judge the lingering effects of SD as well. I generally didn’t like the way I felt above 100 as well. So common sense said back off. I have lost what I will call the SD pump. The Pro does lend itself to hardening but not like it did with SD. The pump was constant and almost seemingly heavy at times, in the quads and arms. I am maintaining weight lifted at this point. I am also falling back towards maintenance calories, but I tend to cycle my intake based on activity levels and interpretation of my current state. I also intend to experiment a bit to get an idea of the cutting potentials of Pro as well. I basically will be using a yo-yo diet. Some seem to refer to this as periodic refeeds. I find I can maintain energy levels quite well and yet drop my overall calorie intake.

Libido update ... The boys were beginning to feel different, as if they were bound up or something. I had noted earlier a noticeable lack of interest, but not sure how much is what as this is my first round of being suppressed. Based on this I have decided to start DHEA and Trib. I have been on them for 3 days and notice the return of morning wood, so it appears to be a good decision at this time. With my understanding of DHEA and its ability to become either TEST or E, I am watching for signs of high E. Perhaps someone can supplement this perception pro or con.
 
Smoky,

I don't know about DHEA going either way to T or E but I was doing 100mg doses of DHEA 3x/day with my nolva and my drive came back way faster than on nolva solo. I don't know how the Pro effects libido and that's why I was interested so much in your journal. I have a new girlfriend and I would hate to be a "no show" only two months into the relationship..LOL, but it is the sacrifice I shall make for my body. Your diet sounds similar to mine minus the yo-yo thing after ending a cycle. I am interested in where things head for you as I am into day 3 of my SD cycle.
 
day 37

Time to catch up: All seems to be well at this point. Strength still climbing all around. The Pro appears to lend a constant level of hardness, and a quicker pump during WO. Since the addition of Trib and DHEA the libido is on the rise. I have one more scheduled week of Pro then PCT begins. I may terminate when this bottle of Pro runs out about mid week. Just seems to be a logical stopping point. As for the cost effectivness of Pro I am beginning to think the money could be spent elsewhere with better results. Of course as the price falls it becomes more appealing as a tool in a cutting cycle. I have been sleeping somewhat better since coming off the SD it appears. Taking advantage of the opportunities as I can. I started cardio again. Will have to work my way back in, the shin splints were allot easier without the SD, but still enough discomfort to limit me to about half of previous limits. Anyone got any tips on dealing with or working through these darn shin splints?

Looking into the true neccesity of the Nolva with no apparent sides indicative of its need. As the Trib and DHEA work towards restoring the T, RXT and Retain should or could clean it it all up, or should I look more at the newer anti-Es? Comments appreciated. :run:
 
Without going back and seeing what you were doing for cardio I would imagine anything without actual impact would be better for the shin splints (eliptical, bike, arc). When I played rugby back in the day I had them to the point it hurt to walk. The trainer recommended this sort of ace bandage looking thing that basically went around the shin area. Between the ice cups on the shins at night and the shin supports they were much better but there is no true way to heal them without stopping impact.

As far as the nolva I would add it to PCT. I think my PCT has been better than the guys I know that chose to go with the RXT.

What brand of Trib did you go with?
 
Cardio is getting easier I think as SD leaves the system. I was able to go a bit longer. I walk a treadmill as the impact of jogging is more than I can take. The Trib is from Optimum, as it runs out I will be trying High Power brand.

I have decided to finish the week out on Pro. Then I will have my best understanding and experience of its effect. I have noticed the elbows are a bit sore, not sure if its the Pro or the stress levels. I am taking joint supplements as well.

So far I have added
Trib
DHEA
SesaMax

I feel I have done a wonderful job adding lean mass, now if I could strip some more BF it would be nice. I am down to losing the toughest for me. The love handle/mid section and lower chest area. My goal is to achieve a visible six pack after all these years. Mass has never been a problem for me only getting lean. I am currently researching cutting cycles and related chemicals. It appears that Albuterol may be a good choice to assist in achieving that chisled look.
 
hi i have a ? iam 35 trying to lose some pounds i have 6ox and superdrol was thinking of doing 10 mg of superdrol with 6-ox to lose a few pounds with cardio and 1800 diet will this work or will the sd put weight on with 10 and i am doing eca
 
jim brooks said:
hi i have a ? iam 35 trying to lose some pounds i have 6ox and superdrol was thinking of doing 10 mg of superdrol with 6-ox to lose a few pounds with cardio and 1800 diet will this work or will the sd put weight on with 10 and i am doing eca
Click to expand...

It is probably best to ask this question in a new thread. Reason being I would want to know much more about your background before giving any opinions and don't want to hi-jack Smoky's thread...oh you may also want to use the search tool a bit as there is a wealth of information already out there that would be pertinent to your question.
 
I agree lets not hi-jack this thread. Any questions you may have that are directly relative to the scope of this thread please fire away. I will glady assist in any way I can if you choose to start a new thread. None the less I wont send you away empty handed. I think it best if you choose to bulk or cut. Trying to do both is not the most efficient but it can be done. (slower less productive) Commonly referred to as recomposition. This cycle's goal was that I wanted to grow but remain as lean as possible or leaner if the conditions allowed. By making this choice I sacrifice some gains. In the context of my cycle I purposely looked for the edge if you will, of gain vs loss. Basicaly I deployed a lowend surplus of macronutients of 3500-4000 cals, with periodic refeeds. (loading complex carbs) If I pushed the food harder the weight came easy. To keep this simple ... I found Prostanozol effective for cutting but think SD NOT unless gaining is part of the picture. Just isnt worth it for all that you wish to achieve IMO. I have recently added SesaMax and it appears to be producing results but I really wish to refrain from commenting on its performance just yet. Diet and exercise are still the biggest keys to loss. Learn to control your diet if you have not for it is the foundation of all else you may attempt to achieve or experiment with. Pretty much the single largest control you have in your hand and its virtualy safe. I make no assumption as to what you may or may not already know. Hope I helped you some how or at least got you pointed in the right direction.

Update for ME:

Still gaining strength, I will do the tale of the tape this coming weekend, as it will be the end of cycle. Hello PCT! Generaly feel a bit lethargic, but if I get up and go all is well. AX Rampage has been a good addition as well. It appears I am leaning more as I am just about to maintenance calories with weekly hi carb days. Maybe one cheat day at most, usualy incorporated with the cheat. Body weight is down a few pounds with no loss in strength, only gains. Cardio has been progressing this week. My goals for this summer are on track at this point. Planning one more cycle that should finish as summer begins if all continues to go well. More than likely will be a cycle of PP and Pro.

Peace :run:
 
PCT update

I have added pGH to PCT. 1st dose was yesterday. Took my final Pro today and will commence PCT tomorrow.

.5cc ED PM 5 on - 2 off
 
Start PCT

First day of PCT

Everything is in place. Last night was the PM dose of pGH IM (delt). I think I slept worse vs the mid day IM. No shortness of breathe or flush of any kind. Today is Shoulder/Back day. Anxious to hit the iron.
 
PCT update

All things going well. Appear to be reducing BF as the weight is falling but strength is holding. Today is BP day so we will see how it goes. Last two days were off days as well as a 2 off for the pGH. Got plenty of rest and ready to hit the iron yet another week.


Pressing On........
 
PCT is going well. Still making gains. Once again I adding Creatine and glutamine back into the mix. Feeling pretty good overall, and the cardio is in place. I have had two cheat meals (mexican and pizza) during PCT with no apparent negative effects. Kept the quantities reasonable and didnt go overboard.

Any questions let them rip. I puposely post only what I feel is of relelvance to share. Figuring most dont wish to be bored with the same old. I appologize if I overlooked something, or just ask and I will attempt to answer to the best of my ability.

Press On...
 
Smoky,

How did you space your dosage of SD when you went to 30mg/d??

I am just finishing up my second week at 20 mg/d and feeling little effects with no sides.. I am 250lbs so I am going to bump it to 30 for the last week.

Thanks
 
Smoky said:
PCT is going well. Still making gains. Once again I adding Creatine and glutamine back into the mix. Feeling pretty good overall, and the cardio is in place. I have had two cheat meals (mexican and pizza) during PCT with no apparent negative effects. Kept the quantities reasonable and didnt go overboard.

Any questions let them rip. I puposely post only what I feel is of relelvance to share. Figuring most dont wish to be bored with the same old. I appologize if I overlooked something, or just ask and I will attempt to answer to the best of my ability.

Press On...
Click to expand...

You said you had two cheat meals, but when I did my cycle on SD I had a huge appetite. Have you had ant trouble controlling that? Seemed Like I wanted a cheat meal everyday.
 
biker340 said:
Smoky,

How did you space your dosage of SD when you went to 30mg/d??

I am just finishing up my second week at 20 mg/d and feeling little effects with no sides.. I am 250lbs so I am going to bump it to 30 for the last week.

Thanks
Click to expand...

I took it as a single dose in the AM.
 
Spartan117 said:
You said you had two cheat meals, but when I did my cycle on SD I had a huge appetite. Have you had ant trouble controlling that? Seemed Like I wanted a cheat meal everyday.
Click to expand...

I hope this answer does not over complicate it. Yes the temptations are there, but with age comes discipline. It is much easier now that it was when I was 20 something. When I say cheat, I mean other than eating clean. I did not restrict calories if my body tells me otherwise. (unless I am cutting so to speak) I eat instinctively as much as I can. Understand as I see it the body adapts and adjusts always. (Some might better see this as "get used too conditions") So once I calculate my meals and get used to them, it is easy to let the body tell me. I find that it is easier to stay leaner for me. I put on weight very easy. I feel the closer you can get to harmony with your body the better you are emotionally and physically. As we age we learn to not take so much for granted mostly. So I am always watching and sensitive to changes. Experience tells me how to respond in respect to my diet. As I learn about other substances I also learn how my body responds. Every now and then a new twist comes along, so dont go and get to complacent, it is quite easy to fall into it. Example would be pGH. I find that I very easily feel hypoglycemic if I dont eat often enough.

Pretty much boils down to learn your body naturaly without enhancements. With the aquired skills you will be able to master the macros and WO's. Adding anything else at that point builds on that foundation with good results and retainability. It's all about what and how we eat ....
 
PCT update

All is well. Strength holding and BF is melting away. It appears the addition of pGH to PCT has been a good choice.
 
I must say this PCT is not at all what I expected. The addition of pGH seems to be the major component bringing the BF down faster than I could have imagined. I am consuming at least maintenance calories (clean) and still losing BF at quite a rate. This morning my weight is back to 194 which is one pound heavier than when I started my cycle. I am still able to push the weights and managing to make smaller gains as well. No doubt I am leaner all around. I have lost some size which I believe is mostly due to BF reduction, and increased in some areas. The most significant change is in the waist line. There is no doubt that it also has effected my appetite. I tend to feel a tightness if you will within the stomach itself. Until I consume adequate calories and protien it holds constant. The single most significant factor I notice is that endurance/stamina are not as high as they were on cycle. I expected this none the less. So based on my current state of mind and present condition I look forward to the next growth cycle.
 
3rd week of PCT and all is going according to plan. The libido seems down a bit, all else seems to be in order otherwise. I did the pGH after cardio this morning and noticed the rush was close to nil. The taste was weaker as well. Yesterday was Back and I got a great pump. Seemed better than anything I have had during this PCT. Still on track for my six pack summer...
 
Old Poser said:
Great log, Smoky!

A couple of q's....

What is your total PCT regimine?

What is pGH?
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Here is my schedule:

PCT:
Nolvadex 40/20/10
RXT 75/50/25/25
Fenugreek 3/4/5/6
AX Retain
DHEA 200/100/100
Trib 2/4/2
pGH .5cc ED 5on 2off

supplement addons:
creatine and glutamine

I chose to phase out the SERM a week early as well as the DHEA and Trib. All is well except for a dip in libido. Boyz are hanging well as they say. Been doing some research on SERMS and such, it does make for some explosive controversy at times. It appears to me that Nolva is somewhat suppresive of the libido due to its effect on estrogen. I believe it to be a needed component (from what I understand) for the proper operation of the sexual male. Perhaps someone can offer up support or the contrary to this. I believe I have garnered the needed benefits so.., just need to taper it off at that point.

pGH in a nutshell is a blend of amino acids and such that are reported to stimulate GH production and assorted benefits. I will refer you to the Uni-Kits site for full product info. For my experiments it is helping reduce BF for sure. It may have helped with recovery from shrinkage but I atribute most to DHEA and Trib. In my 4th week of SD the shut down came on pretty quick. I added those to the mix and things started looking up shortly thereafter. I started pGH 3 days prior to PCT. So it wasn't in the program yet.

Hope I answered your questions adequately.

Press On...
 
Thanks for the rapid and detailed answers. I found all the other stuff, but, I'm sorry, but I've got a couple more q's...


I went to look for fenugreek and found it in many things. Could you help me find a form of the root that is dosed as you suggest? I have the same q for trib. What form (i.e. mg per dose) or brand are you using?

I hope this doesn't sound to picky, but your results encourage me and I want to know what you're doing.
 
Old Poser said:
Thanks for the rapid and detailed answers. I found all the other stuff, but, I'm sorry, but I've got a couple more q's...


I went to look for fenugreek and found it in many things. Could you help me find a form of the root that is dosed as you suggest? I have the same q for trib. What form (i.e. mg per dose) or brand are you using?

I hope this doesn't sound to picky, but your results encourage me and I want to know what you're doing.
Click to expand...

Come on over by the fire and let me answer your questions.
Fenugreek is available from some of the board sponsors and some health food/herb stores that I have looked in. The brand I am currently running is Nature's Way Fenugreek Seed @ 610mg per cap. Trib is High Power brand @ 625mg per cap. The numbers in my schedule are for caps concerning the fenugreek and trib. Not true with others. I should have noted that. Did I cover it as needed? Questions are never a problem.
 
Smoky,

One thing you and everyone else should know about ProStan... ALRI's version is NOT underdosed and 75mg/day is Plenty. I'm 5'10" 230, ~15% bf and it worked great as an anti-catabolic/bridge during the cutting phase of a past cycle (I tested it when they first put it out).

Also, regarding the pGH, you've been using it for about a month now, right? can you give us a quick rundown on what you feel/see from it (besides "the breathless rush")

-V
 
How abt changing that SERM from Nolvadex to Clomid now that you want to run it for 3 weeks. Clomid is real good for restart and anecdotal evidence does suggest a much faster restart.

Everything else looks solid! Great log.
 
Thanks, Smokey. That answers my q's for now. I'll post what I do in my log.

Link below:

(Invalid Link Removed)
 
Viator said:
Smoky,

One thing you and everyone else should know about ProStan... ALRI's version is NOT underdosed and 75mg/day is Plenty. I'm 5'10" 230, ~15% bf and it worked great as an anti-catabolic/bridge during the cutting phase of a past cycle (I tested it when they first put it out).

Also, regarding the pGH, you've been using it for about a month now, right? can you give us a quick rundown on what you feel/see from it (besides "the breathless rush")

-V
Click to expand...

I try to approach all things with awareness of as much as I can. I also read the opposing opinions, as well as pro/con opposing advice from others on Prostan. So in the end I decided to start at 75. I bumped to 100 with what I thought were good results for me with no negative sides. I also bumped 150 but fell back quickly as I experienced no significant advantage and felt kind of crappy for the lack of a better discription. 100 felt like my magic number based on my bio feedback. I have always needed to dose heavy with OTC as well scripts with many things. But I approach with caution as more is not always better. Much the same could be said for the SD as well, as 30mg was the number for me there as well. Yet there are many where 20 was plenty.

You are correct it's been roughly a month with pGH. I appear to be losing weight but maintaining strength. Granted the endurance I had from cycle is gone, but I am still pushing the same weights and making smaller/slower gains. I see more definition just about everywhere. Been consuming maintenance calories during the week and loading more on weekends, just as a point of reference. I feel less tired for most of my work day which starts at 4am. I am beginning to think it has given me a general feeling of vitality if that makes any sense. Hard to be sure as attitude and outlook (read mental state of perception) has a lot to do with it. Regarding sleep, my experience has been I slept worse with a PM dose. Although after this period of time I percieve I may be resting better. I dont seem to stir as much or as often. but my sleep has been eratic for years so I wouldn't bet the farm on it. But like I said I am seeing what may be indicators of change. I most definintly notice an increase in appetite in the AM since the start of pGH. I tend to feel a bit hypoglycemic if I dont get enough carbs and protien.

Let me add that I also started a thread in the UniKits forum called pGH Field Updates. Trying to draw the reviews to a single location so others could keep up a little easier by finding it in one place. It appears to be alive at this time.
 
krzna said:
How abt changing that SERM from Nolvadex to Clomid now that you want to run it for 3 weeks. Clomid is real good for restart and anecdotal evidence does suggest a much faster restart.

Everything else looks solid! Great log.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I believe I will look into Clomid for the next cycle, but I prefer to finish what I started so I can adequately review and comment on my response to, or the lack there of. Not to mention I have none on hand. All seems to be restored and functional just a dip in libido. One more week of RXT and I will see where I stand. Hopefully this will somehow verify my choice to limit those substances. I had considered running a suggested PCT as per a Dr. D post I read. He suggested if my memory serves me, days 1-3 Nolva 60/40/20 then finishing with RXT or the like. Instead I chose to stick with tried and true, then consider variance based on my response.
 
PCT ends this week. Just in time! I plan on taking a break this week from the weights, but will continue the cardio. Weight gain has NOT been an issue. Nothing new to report otherwise. I will try to get the tale of the tape for end result. I am now preparing to run "Rebound Reloaded" in the very near future. Keep an eye out for the log.

Thanks for taking the ride with me!
 
Well here we are, the end of cycle. Lets see how it went.

Changes since beginning of cycle:
Weight__Arms__Forearms__Neck__Chest__Waist__Thigh__Calf
-11 lbs.__+1/2”__+5/8”___+3/8____0_____-4”_____0_____ 0

Decent recomp. As you can see some dimensions haven’t changed even though BF has been reduced successfully. Chest, arms, and thighs lost significant amounts of BF so I am content with what I have retained to this point.

General summary:
SD – extremely effective but began to shut me down at 4 weeks. No significant shrink to talk about.

Prostan – very nice amplifier, great vascularity

Overall I would do it again. Cutting is possible with ample carbs and definitely with the Prostan added at the end. As a recomp agent, most definitely.


PCT

Went well but I will consider the newer non standard protocols next time. Libido has suffered I believe during PCT some as well. Overall strength has been good with no weight gains. Only continual BF reduction, and my diet has had a few more cheats than it did while on cycle. pGH I believe was a significant factor in my BF reduction during PCT. I would most definitely use during a cut.

Next Stop - "Rebound Reloaded"
:run:
 
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