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SD Lethargy Theory

jvangard

New member
Now, I know the prevalent theory concerning the sometimes (always for me) intense lethargy associated with SD and clones is associated with test/est shutdown. The treatment was, of course, to somehow increase test either by injection or perhaps td 4ad. I don't know about anyone else, but neither of these worked for me in the past. So, while this might be part of the problem, it didn't seem to be the major contributor.

Well, this last cycle I've had another side effect show up, and that is migraine headaches with associate aura. I am not necessarily prone to these headaches, and interestingly, they didn't show up until I abruptly stopped my SD cycle (because of lethargy and joint pain) and switched to Halodrol. I have had a few migraines in the past during the end of PCT, generally after I've stopped Nolva, but continued on Divanil. I attributed these to high estrogen levels, and indeed a quick 20 mg of Nolva would stop the headache in its tracks. This association with high est and migraine with aura is well known in women, so this all made sense. Unfortunately, these current headaches weren't touched by Nolva, and indeed started occurring only 2 days post cessation of SD--so est couldn't be the culprit.

I did some digging and found some interesting articles detailing the roles of est and progesterone on migraines. Interestingly, while est can promote excitability (starting a migraine) progesterones (like SD??) can inhibit it. Indeed, progesterone and allopregnanolone (a derivative) can act in an anesthetic fashion by acting on the GABAA receptor with results similar to benzodiazapines or alcohol (Steroids, 2002, 67:519)--hence this seems to be a direct neurological cause for lethargy. In laymen's terms, essentially SD feels like a sleeping pill. Furthermore, this may be why test doesn't really lessen lethargy from SD since it doesn't affect its action on the GABAA receptor.

Now, concerning the migraines I was experiencing, it seems that if you withdraw exogenous progesterone (ie. stop SD abruptly as I did), you get a withdrawal type of reaction that potentiates the cortical excitability and can precipitate migraines (Neurol Sci, 2011, 32:S31-35)--hence why Nolva wasn't touching my headache.

So, what to do about this? Really, the only thing I can think of is to make sure and taper off of SD, (which I have and no headaches so far). Test is also known to inhibit migraines as well. I have done this in the past but unfortunately I have none this time around...which may have made matters worse. Next cycle, I'll make sure to do some td 4ad or similar.

Thoughts anyone?
 
It's an interesting theory..

I bet stacking RS transaderm with it would alleviate the lethargy. It's a combo of topical DHEA and preg.
 
Talking about headaches and migraines, I know I have hugh estrogen from test and u recently also got headaches might jump back on erase soon.
 
superdrol isn't a progestin. it is an androgen, and is di (double) methylated dht.

now, all androgens, not just sd have the ability to bind/interact with the progestin receptor. difference androgens will have varying degrees of interaction with the pr.

some, like nor testosterone can have moderate interaction, others, like winstrol, will have no interaction, both can bind to the pr, but they differ in how the interact with it.

as far as I know, superdrol (methyldrostanolone aka methasteron) have very little to no pr interaction, and in fact is a very potent anabolic.

an anabolic process takes energy to build up smaller molecules into larger ones (where a catabolic process breaks down larger molecules into smaller ones to make energy)

methyldrostanolone has an anabolic/androgenic ratio of 400/20 (this is probably compared with methyl test though). to give you an idea, test is 100/100.

so basically it is an extremely anabolic (requiring more energy to build up) compound.

now, that is the first reason why you get tired from methyldrostanolone (superdrol).

another reason may have something to do with it's low androgenic rating as well.

and then there is a theory (pretty good one) explained in aug. edition of muscle and fitness by patrick arnold having to do with t3 (thyroid hormone).
in a sense, i believe he was showing that androgens have an effect on the body using t3, it still makes it, but i believe he had said it seemed to not be used, or converted into t4 or something, i cant remember.

but, headaches are caused from methylated steroids and their effect on blood pressure. most likely you got the headaches from the hdrol.

it is anybodies guess as to why you didn't get headaches on sd, but then on hdrol.

everytime i run a legit methylated compound, i get the headaches, euphoric feeling, with some blurred vision as well. it goes away as my body adjust.

a 25mg dose (1 tablet) of bronkaid takes care of all lethargic symptoms of w/e androgen you are using.

1 tablet of buffrin (325mg) + 1 tablet of tylenol take care of my heacache and bp spike.

i've been on cycle now for 7 weeks, and my bp is still in the normal range. i use ephedrine, + pre workout sup (lit up) and am on 75mg of pmag e/d, and just added 4-ad utt xl at 4ml per day.
 
Makes sense. Sd never game me sides and I ran it like a asian whore
 
Jasen said:
Makes sense. Sd never game me sides and I ran it like a asian whore
Click to expand...

LMAO - I am on it now and it is just insane. No sides really. Been on a "test base" if you will in the form of andromass. I curbed lethargy with high carb intake it seemed... placebo? SD ftmfw bro.

Very interesting theory to OP. I'd like to read some articles.
 
I'll give your suggestions a try, thanks.

Interestingly, I've done Halodrol alone and not had these headaches. SD at 10 mg EOD seemed to take care of the migraines even when continuing 50mg HD/d. But then again I am an n=1, so...

As you said, the extent of interaction of SD at the preg receptor isn't known (ie. "as far as you know"), and I suspect the interaction is much greater than is expected. Indeed it will most likely never be known since no one will actually do that sort or research. As in there is no money in it (NIH, FDA, NSF don't care).

Thanks for your reply.
 
I always assumed the lethargy was due to SD extreme action of shuttling carbs and glucose out of your blood and into the muscles causing an almost hypo glycemic condition. The shuttling of glycogen and water is where the bulk of the size comes from and is why size always eventually disappears post cycle over time. Poor diet on SD brings lethargy for me.
 
Hmmm don't know but I do like all of the last 4 words in ur sentence ;)
 
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