Cmseabee24
Member
I’ve never used SARMs just wondering if there is any point in running them? Can they accomplish results comparable to a similar anabolic would do for you?
Unanswered Sarms
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Hyde
Legend
Not really, unless you’re a beginner or a woman, or on doctor-prescribed TRT and trying to keep it all legal. Most affect lipids negatively to at least some degree like traditional orals.
Matthersby
Well-known member
I don’t see a reason.
They’d be amazing if they didn’t cause suppression, lower HDL, and elevate liver enzymes, and I’ve seen enough labs to believe they do all of these to some degree. Even if results aren’t quite as good with Sarms, if these weren’t an issue, they’d be a great alternative.
They’d be amazing if they didn’t cause suppression, lower HDL, and elevate liver enzymes, and I’ve seen enough labs to believe they do all of these to some degree. Even if results aren’t quite as good with Sarms, if these weren’t an issue, they’d be a great alternative.
Cmseabee24
Member
I figured I was just curious I see a lot of people throw them in with anabolics and wonder even a noticeable difference. I won’t even bother running one then doesn’t seem cost efficient.
Hyde
Legend
Rad has a place I think, especially for guys with sensitive prostates. I dig it for something a little extra to toss in.
S23 could be a real legal cutting option for some.
These are big for women - some women cutting really well on S4, and bulking on LGD. My wife seems to be doing well cutting with RAD on board at the moment; we don’t really want to raise the var dose any higher so we added that. She can carry and load a 200lb keg pretty easily at 156lb bw right now.
timberx
Member
I have not done any steroids, but I love results from LGD(only sarm I have used). If you have *virgin* receptors, you will do well. My lifts are all up nicely and people can see a difference in how I look, definitely not a placebo. However you do need liver support and PCT.
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Mathb33
Well-known member
Virgin receptors????
Matthersby
Well-known member
I knew you had some good info on these.
S4 I would confidently add to a cutting cycle, but then I think how much more do I need than Test/DHT/DHT/T3/Etc ?
Rad I don’t know much about
Is YK even a sarm?
For females, it’s gotta have some serious value avoiding masculinization and a few other sides.
But when I know 30mg Dbol won’t even put my liver enzymes out of range and barely put my HDL out of range, I don’t see the value of LGD for a 40 year old male on TRT. Because I’ve seen worse labs for LGD and Osta on here.
There’s definitely a lot of people that will continue to benefit from them. Just not me yet. I may just get some s4 now that we are talking about it.
Cmseabee24
Member
No offense but it’s kind of obvious that I would need PCT after being suppressed. Also, I asked if it’s comparable to AS because I’ve done them. Just was wondering why people stack them in cycles and if that’s even beneficial.
SouthPawSD
Active member
I honestly wouldn't use them unless your trying to stay legal. I don't know why someone would stack with real AAS, unless your just experimenting. Or a girl.
The only one I've seen people actually advocate is YK-11 if your stacking with gear.
Hyde
Legend
I would definitely not use S4 when you can use Winny for a real prep. But let’s say some gal wants to do a bikini contest, wants to keep it legal, fly with her supps no thought - S4 is a great option.
Or a guy in his 40s on TRT looking to get beach ready easier but can’t risk the lipid hell that is winny. S23/S4 makes sense here, a lighter option, similar pricing, legal.
Yk is an orally bioavailable 19-Nor, will never explore it further because it’s supposed to be bad for connective tissue. I would rather spend my liver on probably any other oral before this as a strength athlete. It does lower myostatin so could be used to keep gains going strong at the end of a blast. But I need my muscles attached to my joints.
LGTWHIT
Member
Well, I won’t tren unless I have gw (cardarine) in my run. Only sarm imo worth running in a cycle to combat endurance issues and bronchial constriction as well as helping with lipids. Wish I ran it sooner, game changer. I could barely breath my first tren run. Sarms have there place but as stated above, good entry level adventure which will eventually lead to AAS for most 
timberx
Member
I have seen people use that term, pretty much when a 100% natty user tries something outside natural supps. - 100% natty user will get decent results from even weak anabolics, compared to a seasoned AAS/PH user who might not notice anything at all.:
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Mathb33
Well-known member
I know what that means I just disagree. The only reason a natty/newbie will get more gains during a first cycle is because he’s usually very far from his genetic potential and as you keep doing cycles and building more muscles it becomes harder to build new lean mass. Doesn’t have anything to do with receptors. I believe in receptors saturation though.
Renew1
Legend
thats just my opinion though of course
Yeah .. Opinions vary on this one.
Carnivorecon
Well-known member
You think receptors have a lifetime limit or just need a break to re-sensitize?
Jeremyk1
Well-known member
Neither. Receptors don’t get full. Androgens just bind the receptors and cause their effects, but the number can go up and down depending on circumstances. There’s actually evidence that androgen treatment can up regulate AR production.
Jeremyk1
Well-known member
Whoever mentioned cardarine, that’s not a SARM.
But to the original topic, I think some may have a place. Namely RAD140 and YK11. RAD was actually shown in research to have additive benefits to testosterone for building muscle, but decreased the impact on the prostate. While most compounds will obviously have an additive effect with test on muscle growth, it’s nice knowing the research is there. But with the added benefits to the prostate, it’s not a bad option. While some do get sides from it, lots of people do not. It’s generally pretty mild, so I think not a bad option.
YK would be useful for its myostatin inhibiting properties. Gains tend to slow toward the end of cycles, and I doubt it has much to do with receptors and more to do with your body really doesn’t want to get that big. Myostatin will likely be rising as you grow, so YK should be a good plateau breaker. One issue I have, is that all androgens will lower myostatin to an extent, but two what extent, I have no idea. It appears YK is one of the most potent at doing so, but it hasn’t been compared to anything besides DHT. Second, I think Hyde mentioned this, myostatin is actually good for your tendons, and inhibiting myostatin can actually make tendons more brittle. So, I’d suggest strength athletes avoid this one.
But to the original topic, I think some may have a place. Namely RAD140 and YK11. RAD was actually shown in research to have additive benefits to testosterone for building muscle, but decreased the impact on the prostate. While most compounds will obviously have an additive effect with test on muscle growth, it’s nice knowing the research is there. But with the added benefits to the prostate, it’s not a bad option. While some do get sides from it, lots of people do not. It’s generally pretty mild, so I think not a bad option.
YK would be useful for its myostatin inhibiting properties. Gains tend to slow toward the end of cycles, and I doubt it has much to do with receptors and more to do with your body really doesn’t want to get that big. Myostatin will likely be rising as you grow, so YK should be a good plateau breaker. One issue I have, is that all androgens will lower myostatin to an extent, but two what extent, I have no idea. It appears YK is one of the most potent at doing so, but it hasn’t been compared to anything besides DHT. Second, I think Hyde mentioned this, myostatin is actually good for your tendons, and inhibiting myostatin can actually make tendons more brittle. So, I’d suggest strength athletes avoid this one.
Cmseabee24
Member
I thought YK wasn’t a sarm.
Cmseabee24
Member
I thought YK wasn’t a sarm. Appreciate everyone’s input I just wanted to know if there were any pros to running SARMs as opposed to anabolics. I think I use my money elsewhere. Although I do run quite often so Cardarine may be ran in the future.
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Jeremyk1
Well-known member
Technically, I’m not sure it should be classified as one, though it usually is. It is more or less a full blown steroid, just one that exhibits tissue selectivity. Honestly, I’m sure lots of androgens will have some degree of selectivity, so I’m not sure where to “draw the line” so to speak.
Matthersby
Well-known member
Hyde covered the circumstances where they could be useful.
Even with legality at the moment, there’s still plenty of steroids legally available that prove far better and for not much more health risk.
I would bow down to Sarms as the greatest alternative ever, if they didn’t cause lethargy, shutdown, liver toxicity, but dozens of labs keep showing that’s not the case.
There’s a few exceptions and a few sarms that may be a useful alternative, but if you’re generally healthy without major limitations and wanting to cycle, there’s a sea of great drugs out there and we know exactly what to expect and how to counter most of the possible side effects.
Jstrong20
Well-known member
I like s4 way better then winstrol.
Hyde
Legend
Well, I won’t tren unless I have gw (cardarine) in my run. Only sarm imo worth running in a cycle to combat endurance issues and bronchial constriction as well as helping with lipids. Wish I ran it sooner, game changer. I could barely breath my first tren run. Sarms have there place but as stated above, good entry level adventure which will eventually lead to AAS for most
Yes indeed, GW is big both for stamina AND lipids. Made my last run that included M1A very bearable.
It is indeed not a SARM or hormone, as mentioned. Just a drug that is a PPAR agonist.
Alex Kikel on Beast Fitness Radio has a great podcast titled “Tren’s Brother” where he discusses how he feels tren should never be ran without it since it fixes both the winding and lipid issues. He has found with all his athletes bloodwork that 10 weeks at 10mg is sufficient to produce big changes. 20mg divided daily obviously is used by many looking for maximal endurance, but a ton of the effect comes on with just 10mg pre-training.
The cancer studies in rats used something like the human equivalent of 50-60mg daily for months on end. Someone using 10-20mg for a couple months at a time twice a year is pretty far away from that. I mean HGH in big doses will speed cancer growth obviously so I see no real difference.
Hyde
Legend
5-20mg. Seems like 10mg is where I’ve seen some starting.
Would not recommend unless you train very fluffy and light. Not being disrespectful, but anyone lifting in strength rep ranges should avoid IMO.
Hyde
Legend
5-20mg. Seems like 10mg is where I’ve seen some starting.
Would not recommend unless you train very fluffy and light. Not being disrespectful, but anyone lifting in strength rep ranges should avoid IMO.
khall1974
Well-known member
What was your sweet spot for cardarine? Plan to run during pct to keep endurance up.Well, I won’t tren unless I have gw (cardarine) in my run. Only sarm imo worth running in a cycle to combat endurance issues and bronchial constriction as well as helping with lipids. Wish I ran it sooner, game changer. I could barely breath my first tren run. Sarms have there place but as stated above, good entry level adventure which will eventually lead to AAS for most