NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
You are a fair old expert on MK-677, you been running it?
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You are a fair old expert on MK-677, you been running it?
sanmarino
Member
You can it run how you like - it will increase the GH instantly with the first intake. Furthermore, as an endogene GH-booster the effect will decrease the longer you are taking it (me personally will use MK-677 over two months, not longer). It's like caffeine or a stimulante like ephedrine: at first, you start with a lower dose but the longer you are taking it your body will resist more and more and you need higher doses.
The results in the MK-677 were all the same: in 12-month-studies the IGF-1 raised between 21.3% which is nice. But IGF-1 is not everything, will also want to have a benefit of our somatropin. So, if you compare this 12-month-study with the study I posted on the first page you will realize, that a shorter time of using MK-677 has much more benefits than over a long period.
The benefits are in one week for elder persons much more higher: it started with a raise of 973.3% (9.7x) of the normal GH level and decreased fast on 455.7% (4.6x). For younger people (24 years old) the raise was as follows: with the first intake the GH raised on 268.9% (nearly 3x) and decreased fast on 190% (nearly 2x).
Of course, this are the GH values and not the IGF-1. But they act similar to the GH. Now you can imagine the curve of the slope: it starts high with the intake and decreases fast but slower with the time (so: the longer the intake, the slower the slope decreases). Sorry for my english, I hope you understand what I mean...
There are some personal thoughts:
- You can use MK-677 over a very long period (12-/24-monts), the benefit is of course here (in case of the IGF-1 it's a increase of 21.3%). But according to the study, the IGF-1 increased within a week over 147.1% (from 174ng/ml +/- 64 to 256nm/ml +/- 84). A increase of 21.3% after 12-months is really nice. But why not reducing the intake to "only" 2-3 months? You have an instant benefit of such a high IGF-1. It's only up to you how you will use it (train hard and eat much for a nice muscle build up). Of course building muscles take a period of time, therefore: the longer, the better.
- Compared with exogenic HGH, GH acts only as a GHRP. With an exogenic use of HGH you have always constant levels. Furthermore, there is pharmagrade HGH, MK-677 is still a research chemical.
- To increase the effectiveness of MK-677 a supplementation of Huperzine-A would be have a nice benefit. The slope of the curve I reffered above, could be much more flatened and probably increased the IGF-1 from 21.3% to probably 30% or more (which is of course only an approximation).
- I only can repeat myself: our body has a very komplex security system in case of dysbalance. If the somatropin raises, the somatostatin will also raise, it's only a matter of time. A endogene boost with substances like MK-677 are working, of course, but a boost won't last for ever and the effectiveness decreases. Therefore I also think to reduce the dosage at the end of the cycle to prepare the body. Otherwise the somatostatin will stay high while our somatropin will decrease to our natural level. There is also time needed until the somatostatin will decrease.
- So, there are a lot of points which suggest for a short (2-3 monts) intake, but also a lot for a medium-long or long intake (6-24monts). It's up to you if you have enough money and are brave enough to use a research chemical over a long period of time. In both cases the MK-677 will work (in the short period very hard and very high benefits and over a longer period more steady and persistent). You can use it either with SARM up to 10 weeks, with a moderate testosterone cycle over six months or as a a anti-age component for non-bodybuilding interested users over 12-24 months.
- Due to all this points, I personally will use MK-677 for 2-3 monts, not longer. But this is a completely personal attitude and don't have to match with others.
The results in the MK-677 were all the same: in 12-month-studies the IGF-1 raised between 21.3% which is nice. But IGF-1 is not everything, will also want to have a benefit of our somatropin. So, if you compare this 12-month-study with the study I posted on the first page you will realize, that a shorter time of using MK-677 has much more benefits than over a long period.
The benefits are in one week for elder persons much more higher: it started with a raise of 973.3% (9.7x) of the normal GH level and decreased fast on 455.7% (4.6x). For younger people (24 years old) the raise was as follows: with the first intake the GH raised on 268.9% (nearly 3x) and decreased fast on 190% (nearly 2x).
Of course, this are the GH values and not the IGF-1. But they act similar to the GH. Now you can imagine the curve of the slope: it starts high with the intake and decreases fast but slower with the time (so: the longer the intake, the slower the slope decreases). Sorry for my english, I hope you understand what I mean...
There are some personal thoughts:
- You can use MK-677 over a very long period (12-/24-monts), the benefit is of course here (in case of the IGF-1 it's a increase of 21.3%). But according to the study, the IGF-1 increased within a week over 147.1% (from 174ng/ml +/- 64 to 256nm/ml +/- 84). A increase of 21.3% after 12-months is really nice. But why not reducing the intake to "only" 2-3 months? You have an instant benefit of such a high IGF-1. It's only up to you how you will use it (train hard and eat much for a nice muscle build up). Of course building muscles take a period of time, therefore: the longer, the better.
- Compared with exogenic HGH, GH acts only as a GHRP. With an exogenic use of HGH you have always constant levels. Furthermore, there is pharmagrade HGH, MK-677 is still a research chemical.
- To increase the effectiveness of MK-677 a supplementation of Huperzine-A would be have a nice benefit. The slope of the curve I reffered above, could be much more flatened and probably increased the IGF-1 from 21.3% to probably 30% or more (which is of course only an approximation).
- I only can repeat myself: our body has a very komplex security system in case of dysbalance. If the somatropin raises, the somatostatin will also raise, it's only a matter of time. A endogene boost with substances like MK-677 are working, of course, but a boost won't last for ever and the effectiveness decreases. Therefore I also think to reduce the dosage at the end of the cycle to prepare the body. Otherwise the somatostatin will stay high while our somatropin will decrease to our natural level. There is also time needed until the somatostatin will decrease.
- So, there are a lot of points which suggest for a short (2-3 monts) intake, but also a lot for a medium-long or long intake (6-24monts). It's up to you if you have enough money and are brave enough to use a research chemical over a long period of time. In both cases the MK-677 will work (in the short period very hard and very high benefits and over a longer period more steady and persistent). You can use it either with SARM up to 10 weeks, with a moderate testosterone cycle over six months or as a a anti-age component for non-bodybuilding interested users over 12-24 months.
- Due to all this points, I personally will use MK-677 for 2-3 monts, not longer. But this is a completely personal attitude and don't have to match with others.
CJNator
Well-known member
Nothing that I can say really, I just bumped it up to 8mgs 2 days ago. This is my 3rd week and too,the effects should kick in this week hopefully.
Danes
Well-known member
I have not tried it but my friend did and here is what he got:
-amazing increase in apetitte (MK677 is an oral ghrelin mimetic. Ghrelin is a "hunger hormone")
-amazing sleep (there are studies showing improvement of REM on MK677 . Up to 50%)
-his GF reported the skin looked much better. His face more fresh etc.she didnt know he was on MK677.(this part is due to GH increase and better sleep ofcourse).
-he was eating the same as before and he was leaner (studies show leaning effect on MK677)
-harder and more vascular/muscular
I mean MK677 is the safest,easiest(just one or two tabs at day) and when you compare sides and effect one of the best GHRP out there.
-2 months studies showing no insulin issues like other peptides
-no cortisol issues
-no GH bleeding
- no desensitization(almost nothing after 12 months)
"Results: A total of 416 patients completed treatment and assessments at 12 months. Administration of MK-677 25 mg resulted in a 60.1% increase in serum IGF-1 levels at 6 weeks and a 72.9% increase at 12 months"
This show more IGF1 after 12 months than 6 weeks
-Studies show nice increase of IGF1,GH and IGF-PB3 (binding protein which is needed to carry IGF1 to cell and activating receptor)
-bypass the somatostatin barrier by interacting directly with GH receptors, thus producing GH release (remember,somatostatin is GH inhibitor (GHIH).
HTGduck
Active member
Check your PMs good sir
flexfit
Member
Day 3 on GW:
Tired as **** today. Didn't get enough sleep...late night extracurricular with the wife lol. Also had some weird, unsettling dreams that I was half awake for when trying to finally fall asleep...don't know if this has anything to do with the GW.
High intensity arm workout tonight...excellent pump, definitely a slight increase in vascularity.
I'm happy to report that the headache I experienced mid-workout yesterday did not occur tonight.
I'm down two pounds or so since I started cutting on Monday...I realize this is just that initial water weight coming off.
Sorry for the brief logs...need to get some sleep!
Tired as **** today. Didn't get enough sleep...late night extracurricular with the wife lol. Also had some weird, unsettling dreams that I was half awake for when trying to finally fall asleep...don't know if this has anything to do with the GW.
High intensity arm workout tonight...excellent pump, definitely a slight increase in vascularity.
I'm happy to report that the headache I experienced mid-workout yesterday did not occur tonight.
I'm down two pounds or so since I started cutting on Monday...I realize this is just that initial water weight coming off.
Sorry for the brief logs...need to get some sleep!
CJNator
Well-known member
Are you talking about those short dreams that wake you up out of nowhere, I hate thoses lol but its not from GW.
flexfit
Member
Not quite...more like when you are trying to fall asleep and you a prisoner to your own thoughts...random faces, thoughts, sounds. Happens every once and a while. It is called hypnogogia...the transition from wakefulness to sleep. I hate it lol.
CJNator
Well-known member
Oh **** that don't sound fun lol I don't think tht ever happened to me that I'm aware of.
flexfit
Member
Haha yea no fun indeed.
It probably has happened, you just chalked it up to a bad dream
Luckily last night was more peaceful...went to bed relatively early.
Danes
Well-known member
Bee there !!
Had it in pubertity. Omg its horrible. I experienced it prior waking up. I saw in the room.(blur and not sharp), could not move, strange windy sounds etc. Omg hahahah
flexfit
Member
Yea...it's unnerving to say the least lol!
I would be super stoked if it doesn't happen again haha.
sanmarino
Member
Methylated Trenbolone? That is some heavy stuff... The hepatoxicity is very, very high. Generally pro-hormones are the dirtiest stuff I know. They are in fact full AAS and can be used only for a short period of time (from two weeks to maximum six weeks there is everything). And you want to build muscles within a couple of weeks? That's impossibe, you only will gain fat and water and with luck probably some grams of mucsles.... Building up muscles is a process that thakes time. So, when I read about 12-week Testoterone cycle, it's for me personally nonesense because it nearly needs eight weeks to unfold its full effect. And then you want to stay on T for only four weeks? But that's another story.
GW is very interesting together with Trenbolone (and I mean in prior the injection variants). The methylated version of Trenbolone has the same (side) effects as the good old injection form. So, you will have sleeping problems, if Tren used without Testosterone it will be funny for your little friend, extreme liver toxicity, nice blood pressure and so on. GW will give you energy despite lack of sleeping. Your stamnia increases, a big plus also inside the gym. Furthermore, it regulates the lipidprofiles in a good way (LDL decreases, HDL increases). Adding GW to your cycle is always a benefit (my opinion).
GW is very interesting together with Trenbolone (and I mean in prior the injection variants). The methylated version of Trenbolone has the same (side) effects as the good old injection form. So, you will have sleeping problems, if Tren used without Testosterone it will be funny for your little friend, extreme liver toxicity, nice blood pressure and so on. GW will give you energy despite lack of sleeping. Your stamnia increases, a big plus also inside the gym. Furthermore, it regulates the lipidprofiles in a good way (LDL decreases, HDL increases). Adding GW to your cycle is always a benefit (my opinion).
yates84
Well-known member
I believe he is referring to gpl methyl tren which is ment
EatMoar
Well-known member
I thought ment was trest? Or different molecule?
yates84
Well-known member
The nomenclature is a little different, haven't really looked any further into it
EatMoar
Well-known member
ya ive seen the nomenclature , but they are spoken about as if they are totally different compounds. I always thought they were the same but I also didnt look into it. Never had interest in it.
yates84
Well-known member
The compound you have is ment or trest. They are basically the same. Methyl tren will serve as a better test base than dermacrine any day but have an ai on hand.
EatMoar
Well-known member
Any reason as to why it's called methyl tren if it's trest? Lol so confusing. Actual injectable methyl tren is quite killer and dangerous lol.
yates84
Well-known member
Definitely not a good name. I bought it thinking it was methyl dienolone. Got the bottle and was like wtf? I thought methyltrienolone was oral?
EatMoar
Well-known member
Is there any way a mod can relocated all my posts I'm this thread to a new thread...for a log?
Copy and paste
flexfit
Member
EatMoar
Well-known member
Aghhhh thank you sir.
RecompMan
Well-known member
or an eod dosing
Gh has been used that way in children to a degree with a better overall affect along with lesser negatives on endocrine system
sanmarino
Member
Good input.
EatMoar : you can use GW as a stand-alone (e.g. when you are an endurance athlete). You have to keep in mind that the primary energy from our body changes from carbohydrates to the fat depot - intetesting for us. But furthermore a lot of people forget the change in muscle fibres. In mice it is shown that they (97 days intake of GW and high fat diet) changed nearly 50% to type I (slow twitch). This one uses more enery - especially carbohydrates - whereas type II (especially the subtype IIx) uses primarly ATP.
I'm still clear up HOW the mechanism happens and WHY they changed. Even the researchers where surprised. Earlier, we thought that muscle fibres are geneticaly given and cannot change (not from type I to II but the subtypes like IIa to IIx or IIb). Nowadays, we know that a big a mount is genetically given but with the "right" excersice you can change it to a limited percentage (unknown how much, depends on the individual).
So, if you are a bodybuilder with short reps in training the GW won't make you an endurance athlete and. But if you would take GW without training the fibres can change. Also if you change your training from 4 to 20 reps your red fibres (slow twitch) will have a benefit to growth - but that sounds more dramatic than it sounds.
Quintessence: GW can change the muscle fibres in a limited percentage but not for ever (nothing is forever). If there is no stimulus for the "new" muscle fibre it will change back to the accordingly type. So, that is also a benefit for the muscle types which already have a big amount of type I (e.g. calves). But don't worry: the procedure of change needs time and doesn't happen over night (see the mice in 97 days). Also, they took huge dosage of GW, this also could influence the change speed (and percentage).
Maybe the text sounds confusing, sorry for that. I hope you understand the two main points of GW (changing from carbohydrates to fat primarly and changing from muscle fibers).
flexfit
Member
I'm now about 9 days in.
I'm still at 10mg/day...not sure if I will bump to 20mg or not.
So far, I have noticed a slight increase in body temperature, more vascularity, and some endurance benefits.
I do, however, feel a bit flatter...which is something I have read about in other GW logs.
I'm still at 10mg/day...not sure if I will bump to 20mg or not.
So far, I have noticed a slight increase in body temperature, more vascularity, and some endurance benefits.
I do, however, feel a bit flatter...which is something I have read about in other GW logs.
EatMoar
Well-known member
It was crystal clear bud! Interesting. I train in all rep ranges , my main goal to use it would be for fat utilization. I see the benefit of using this on a low carb, high pro/fat diet.
Changing muscle fibers is an interesting concept. I thought it wasn't possible at all.
Danes
Well-known member
I really see no point running less than 3 months. 5-6 months would be good.
Here is something I wrote before:
I mean MK677 is the safest,easiest(just one or two tabs at day) and when you compare sides and effect one of the best GHRP out there.
-2 months studies showing no insulin issues like other peptides
-no cortisol issues
-no GH bleeding
- no desensitization(almost nothing after 12 months)
"Results: A total of 416 patients completed treatment and assessments at 12 months. Administration of MK-677 25 mg resulted in a 60.1% increase in serum IGF-1 levels at 6 weeks and a 72.9% increase at 12 months"
This show more IGF1 after 12 months than 6 weeks
-Studies show nice increase of IGF1,GH and IGF-PB3 (binding protein which is needed to carry IGF1 to cell and activating receptor)
-bypass the somatostatin barrier by interacting directly with GH receptors, thus producing GH release (remember,somatostatin is GH inhibitor (GHIH).
-50% increase in REM sleep
CJNator
Well-known member
5-6 months? Not calling you out but can you pm me where you got that info. I never heard more then 3 months that I remember.
Danes
Well-known member
Danes
Well-known member
Rocket3015
Legend
Very Interesting!
Danes
Well-known member
Honestly, I dont trust supplememt brands (their SARM,GW,mk677 products).
The price is to good to be true.
And its not easy to lab test those compounds either..
I know one brand which is 100% legit (they make SARMs and other compounds for research purpose) . Their products are up to 5x the price.
yates84
Well-known member
I have to agree. If it's too good to be true.......
To me, cycle time is precious time that is easily squandered. Why take chances? Get what you know is legit, get what you know has been lab tested
Danes
Well-known member
Totaly agree.
Couple of my friends was running ostarine and LGD-4033 with no results as they expected. So I recommended them a legit brand but the price was much higher.
Size and strength was fantastic after 8 weeks
CJNator
Well-known member
That might be happening right now with one of my friends but he is on week 3 I think and I didn't see results till week 4.