This stuff is really kicking in now! I got a new bench max yesterday! (265 lbs). Arms, shoulders, and traps especially getting bigger. 188.6 lbs on the scale. Hunger is still raging, but not getting fatter. It seems that these two sarms combined give a great recomp effect. Once the osta kicks in, its better than H-Drol. S4 is almost gone (I spilled a dose.....whoops), so I'll start using the formestane soon. Keep in mind this is only my second cycle so I'm not super-experienced with this stuff, but I have done A LOT of research.