SARM effectiveness for Steroid Users

[justeat]

We’ve all read countless logs, reports, and claims of people making significant gains from Various sarms… but few (if any) of these accounts mention the persons anabolic history.

Gaining 10-15 lbs from a sarm cycle with little to no true Steroid use is one thing- but getting those gains after several (or many) cycles is completely another story.

Does anyone have any FIRST HAND experience with sarms after running real cycles in the past? How effective were they? I personally assume the gains are less dramatic, and I’m not necessarily looking to try sarms atm, but I’d really like to hear some info from those who fit this context.

Also- anyone who has tried YK-11 with or without a steroid history… feel free to drop your two cents. Thanks.


PS- please spare me any “try the search button” responses. I have, I’ve read dozens. I want more- and I want to be able to ask questions without resurrecting an old thread!

 

[WesleyInman]

I've been on something for 22+ years whether it be AAS or HRT now (legal)

I assure you that Cardarine aka gw-501516 is one of my most favorite compounds on Earth. Nothing else comes close for endurance and it also has nice fat loss benefits.

No "anabolic" touches cardarine for these goals.

I'm also a fan of LGD , mk677 (not a sarm but often sold as one) def works and also injectable yk-11.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

I have been taking anabolics for a decade and rad140 was still pretty potent for me. Shocked at the feeling of aggression honestly

 

[Smont]

We’ve all read countless logs, reports, and claims of people making significant gains from Various sarms… but few (if any) of these accounts mention the persons anabolic history.

Gaining 10-15 lbs from a sarm cycle with little to no true Steroid use is one thing- but getting those gains after several (or many) cycles is completely another story.

Does anyone have any FIRST HAND experience with sarms after running real cycles in the past? How effective were they? I personally assume the gains are less dramatic, and I’m not necessarily looking to try sarms atm, but I’d really like to hear some info from those who fit this context.

Also- anyone who has tried YK-11 with or without a steroid history… feel free to drop your two cents. Thanks.


PS- please spare me any “try the search button” responses. I have, I’ve read dozens. I want more- and I want to be able to ask questions without resurrecting an old thread!

I believe from first hand experience that you can use sarms and oral steroids interchangeably if the dose is correct.

If you have ran steroid cycles then you know that 15-20mg of anadrol or winstrol isint really going to do anything but 30-50+mg will

Well, sarms are the same. Lgd and s23 specifically will work like oral steroids if you dose them over 30mg a day.

I prefer both of those in injectable form over the oral. Or in combination. I could take 20-30mg lgd daily and then shoot 30mg pre workout.

I've taken lgd fairly high, and in the future I plan on eventually running it at 60mg injectable daily, mainly because I have a ton of it/access to a ton of it.


Once you get into these sarms at high doses tho, you can throw all the "sarm" properties out the window. There anabolics and the higher the dose, the more likely you will get side effects

 

[SSJ4GOD]

I believe from first hand experience that you can use sarms and oral steroids interchangeably if the dose is correct.

If you have ran steroid cycles then you know that 15-20mg of anadrol or winstrol isint really going to do anything but 30-50+mg will

Well, sarms are the same. Lgd and s23 specifically will work like oral steroids if you dose them over 30mg a day.

I prefer both of those in injectable form over the oral. Or in combination. I could take 20-30mg lgd daily and then shoot 30mg pre workout.

I've taken lgd fairly high, and in the future I plan on eventually running it at 60mg injectable daily, mainly because I have a ton of it/access to a ton of it.


Once you get into these sarms at high doses tho, you can throw all the "sarm" properties out the window. There anabolics and the higher the dose, the more likely you will get side effects

The rad140 I got was sublingual and I felt like absorption rate must have been fantastic. Won’t use it another way now. Injectable would probably be better but that’s just another pin I don’t really wanna do lol

 

[WesleyInman]

Injectable YK-11 is very under rated. It is often compared to Tren.

I have a client that stayed on for like 6 months. 20mgs a day (10x2) and used in conjunction with his HRT. He gained about 20lbs overall in that time frame, while getting leaner. Of course not all of that is muscle but he absolutely transformed his physique with INJ Yk-11. Oral YK-11 and Oral Sr-9009 don't impress me at all but the injectables are amazing if you can deal with injecting 2-3x a day w slin pin IM.

 

[justeat]

Guys- thank you. This is more or less what I hoped to hear. I suppose it comes down to cost, and what each person prefers once you go down the road of “higher dose/more effective/more side effects”, then it’s just in league with classic compounds.

I’m more so considering adding a sarm into my next cycle for its benefits- like rad140 for its supposed prostate benefits, or YK11 for the myostatin inhibition (if that’s true)/ or even as my dht aspect of cycle, instead of a mast or primo.

The injectable versions sound promising. I prefer to run slightly longer and less aggressive cycles these days, so getting out of the oral game would be preferential. I do understand a lot of rad and YK has questionable quality though.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Guys- thank you. This is more or less what I hoped to hear. I suppose it comes down to cost, and what each person prefers once you go down the road of “higher dose/more effective/more side effects”, then it’s just in league with classic compounds.

I’m more so considering adding a sarm into my next cycle for its benefits- like rad140 for its supposed prostate benefits, or YK11 for the myostatin inhibition (if that’s true)/ or even as my dht aspect of cycle, instead of a mast or primo.

The injectable versions sound promising. I prefer to run slightly longer and less aggressive cycles these days, so getting out of the oral game would be preferential. I do understand a lot of rad and YK has questionable quality though.

No issues with the sublingual poly cell rad I’m using. It’s under an “umbrella” brand

 

[justeat]

No issues with the sublingual poly cell rad I’m using. It’s under an “umbrella” brand

Thanks. But goddamn these sarms become so expensive when you up the dose and run it for real. I can get 3 bottles of classic gear for the price of a bottle of these. I need to find a raw source and become my own “research lab”

 

[Mikereyn513]

I've been on something for 22+ years whether it be AAS or HRT now (legal)

I assure you that Cardarine aka gw-501516 is one of my most favorite compounds on Earth. Nothing else comes close for endurance and it also has nice fat loss benefits.

No "anabolic" touches cardarine for these goals.

I'm also a fan of LGD , mk677 (not a sarm but often sold as one) def works and also injectable yk-11.

Cardarine is also great for hypertension due to oral anabolic usage. I think I remember hearing that from douchebag Doucette of all people but it worked. Was taking dbol at the time and after adding cardarine it went back down significantly to the point I won't use orals without it anymore

 

[mTOR25]

I have used SARMs specifically both LGD 4033 and RAD 140 with very decent effects. However I always ran a Testosterone base with those cycles! I would definitely say though they are comparable to AAS though in effects but its going to depend highly on dosage and route of administration.

I did absolutely get really good strength increases off RAD 140 but I got more anabolism from LGD4033? The fact is these are potent anabolics and dosage will dictate the level of anabolism and androgenicity you experience!

There are compounds people call SARMs that are unique and not SARMs at all such as gw501516 and sr9009 that work on unique pathways PPARdelta former and REV Erba latter that can absolutely have substantial performance enhancing benefits!

I will definitely include these compounds in later cycles especially if I'm trying to keep my side effects to a minimum. Most AAS have higher potential for side effects when it comes to my biochemistry but I have heard people say they get comparable or worse sides from SARMs?

I think both RAD140 and LGD4033 are good anabolic tools to include in your arsenal! I have yet to try YK11 but that's on my todo list for sure! I will in fact be using injectable YK11 20mg ED split into two for the last 5 weeks of my current cycle!!!

 

[Uncle_E]

Cardarine is also great for hypertension due to oral anabolic usage. I think I remember hearing that from douchebag Doucette of all people but it worked. Was taking dbol at the time and after adding cardarine it went back down significantly to the point I won't use orals without it anymore

Really? I’m going to have to look into this now.

 

[mTOR25]

Thanks. But goddamn these sarms become so expensive when you up the dose and run it for real. I can get 3 bottles of classic gear for the price of a bottle of these. I need to find a raw source and become my own “research lab”

I can get anavar raws for 6 a gram, dianabol for 2 a gram but the best prices I can find for RAD140 is 18 a gram lol I don't know why this is but the SARM raws are way more expensive. They are the price of Primo raws lol!

 

[SSJ4GOD]

I can get anavar raws for 6 a gram, dianabol for 2 a gram but the best prices I can find for RAD140 is 18 a gram lol I don't know why this is but the SARM raws are way more expensive. They are the price of Primo raws lol!

It’s because traditional aas Raws have been around and been being produced for decades. Wish I had a domestic source for some raws as I need some test base bad lol but anyways, sarms are new and probably are not as in demand so upfront production cost and time to sell it is greater leading to higher prices

 

[justeat]

It’s because traditional aas Raws have been around and been being produced for decades. Wish I had a domestic source for some raws as I need some test base bad lol but anyways, sarms are new and probably are not as in demand so upfront production cost and time to sell it is greater leading to higher prices

Yep, there’s well established production lines for the Raws as well as components that go into them.

I really like the idea of throwing in a sarm to serve a specific purpose on a cycle- like adding Rad140 in smaller doses to help protect and prostrate issues. Over the years I’ve really become a fan of using less intense cycles, and running them longer. It stems from the realization that some of by best gains have come from 6-8 month periods of simple trt plus 2-3iu growth. Slow but consistent recomping, all while living pretty healthy in terms of blood work/health markers. I’m envisioning my next cycle to be along the lines of 300-400 test, 600 primo (or eq), and then maybe 10mg rad140 daily.

The YK interests me, although I’m not clear on how that would stack with other DHT compounds in a cycle (primo, mast, etc)… in terms of receptor competition and whatnot.

Has anyone ran a cycle similar to this? Thinking of going for 16 weeks. (I do a conservative cycle like this followed by 6 months or so at 200test)

 

[justeat]

And I’d be happy with slow steady gains, just like my trt cruises, except turned up a bit. I want to maintain my body weight of 240 and loose 4/5% BF.

So if these sarms are still hitting us decently, a hybrid cycle may have some real benefits

 

[Smont]

Yep, there’s well established production lines for the Raws as well as components that go into them.

I really like the idea of throwing in a sarm to serve a specific purpose on a cycle- like adding Rad140 in smaller doses to help protect and prostrate issues. Over the years I’ve really become a fan of using less intense cycles, and running them longer. It stems from the realization that some of by best gains have come from 6-8 month periods of simple trt plus 2-3iu growth. Slow but consistent recomping, all while living pretty healthy in terms of blood work/health markers. I’m envisioning my next cycle to be along the lines of 300-400 test, 600 primo (or eq), and then maybe 10mg rad140 daily.

The YK interests me, although I’m not clear on how that would stack with other DHT compounds in a cycle (primo, mast, etc)… in terms of receptor competition and whatnot.

Has anyone ran a cycle similar to this? Thinking of going for 16 weeks. (I do a conservative cycle like this followed by 6 months or so at 200test)

Oral rad 140 @15mg a day I noticed a sense of well being, I felt some positive agression in the gym, maybe a little dryer, it should also have all the positive prostate effects at that dose.

I just didn't really notice any muscle growth at that dose.

With that being said, several times I've used it low for the reasons I've mentioned above. I haven't really took rad super high yet but I've seen positive feedback on higher doses

 

[justeat]

Oral rad 140 @15mg a day I noticed a sense of well being, I felt some positive agression in the gym, maybe a little dryer, it should also have all the positive prostate effects at that dose.

I just didn't really notice any muscle growth at that dose.

With that being said, several times I've used it low for the reasons I've mentioned above. I haven't really took rad super high yet but I've seen positive feedback on higher doses

Yea, I think at a modest dose I’d really be hoping for the prostate effects and anything else is a bonus.

Question for you Smont - since you’ve ran many and all different doses. Would you take an oral steroid (anavar, winny) over the equivalent effective dose of a similar sarm (day rad or S23). And at that dose to produce similar results, which gave you more side effects?

 

[Rad83]

Good question above and curious myself about rad140…Does it cause anxiety, anger, depression…? If so, how? I mean these things were supposed to be “selective and safe” remember all that shitt when they first came out lol…

I ran Lgd at 24 and had great results and damn near no sides…Looked a little soft but I was bulking. Pct was smooth.

Ran a methyl about 8 months ago and had anxiety, etc. Pct sucked…Thus I’m thinking of going back to sarms

 

[GreenMachineX]

I believe from first hand experience that you can use sarms and oral steroids interchangeably if the dose is correct.

If you have ran steroid cycles then you know that 15-20mg of anadrol or winstrol isint really going to do anything but 30-50+mg will

Well, sarms are the same. Lgd and s23 specifically will work like oral steroids if you dose them over 30mg a day.

I prefer both of those in injectable form over the oral. Or in combination. I could take 20-30mg lgd daily and then shoot 30mg pre workout.

I've taken lgd fairly high, and in the future I plan on eventually running it at 60mg injectable daily, mainly because I have a ton of it/access to a ton of it.


Once you get into these sarms at high doses tho, you can throw all the "sarm" properties out the window. There anabolics and the higher the dose, the more likely you will get side effects

Have you seen any new research on lgd to indicate safety or anything else? What sides have you seen? I did a few lgd cycles at 10mg max years ago, and still interested in it, but my tolerance for side effects and risks is way lower.

 

[Smont]

Have you seen any new research on lgd to indicate safety or anything else? What sides have you seen? I did a few lgd cycles at 10mg max years ago, and still interested in it, but my tolerance for side effects and risks is way lower.

I haven't really seen anything that would scare me away, and I have got zero side effects at any dose so far with lgd. With that being said, the only side effects that I typically get are from hi estrogen or high prolactin causing me acne and gyno (not from lgd of course), which I've learned how to manage. But outside of that, nothing really bothers me.

I never loose my appetite, bloodwork on most orals looks pretty damn good, BP is usually upper normal range and so on.

So I'm not the best person to say weather or not something causes side effects outside of prolactin gyno and acne, which are not a problem on lgd.

 

[Uncle_E]

Good question above and curious myself about rad140…Does it cause anxiety, anger, depression…? If so, how? I mean these things were supposed to be “selective and safe” remember all that shitt when they first came out lol…

I ran Lgd at 24 and had great results and damn near no sides…Looked a little soft but I was bulking. Pct was smooth.

Ran a methyl about 8 months ago and had anxiety, etc. Pct sucked…Thus I’m thinking of going back to sarms

I would say that I’m prone to the negative mental effects like anxiety or depression from certain substances, but did not have that experience with either Rad or LGD. MK677 did give me some anxiety and the ‘increased fear learning’ sides when I ran it for a few months at 25mg. All of this was on TRT. I ran Rad once before TRT and definitely experience suppression and some but shrinkage, but that wasn’t the most reliable brand and might have been Dbol.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Good question above and curious myself about rad140…Does it cause anxiety, anger, depression…? If so, how? I mean these things were supposed to be “selective and safe” remember all that shitt when they first came out lol…

I ran Lgd at 24 and had great results and damn near no sides…Looked a little soft but I was bulking. Pct was smooth.

Ran a methyl about 8 months ago and had anxiety, etc. Pct sucked…Thus I’m thinking of going back to sarms

Personally rad140 gave me pretty intense anger issues and increased anxiety. It was pretty significant

 

[Smont]

Personally rad140 gave me pretty intense anger issues and increased anxiety. It was pretty significant

See, perfect example of why I'm a bad person to judge side effects, rad puts me in a good mood, all positive agression in the gym and improved well-being outside the gym

 

[DaveMcNaul]

Did you guys try ostarine?

 

[Smont]

Did you guys try ostarine?

Ya, it's garbage, total waste of money, all side effects and no gains

 

[Smont]

Did you guys try ostarine?

Seems to work good for females tho.

 

[DaveMcNaul]

Ya, it's garbage, total waste of money, all side effects and no gains

Which one in your opinion is the safest one?

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Ya, it's garbage, total waste of money, all side effects and no gains

I second this.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

See, perfect example of why I'm a bad person to judge side effects, rad puts me in a good mood, all positive agression in the gym and improved well-being outside the gym

To be fair I think methyl 1 test isn’t that toxic and it actually made me feel good so…. Just shows the whole “your experience may vary” with most of these products

 

[Potbelly]

Did you guys try ostarine?

Imagine If you stacked it with deer antler and laxogenin

 

[Smont]

Which one in your opinion is the safest one?

Going to be different for everyone, I will say that s23 seems to be the most side effects for people, lgd is pretty middle of the road, low sides and moderate gains. I usually reccomend lgd to ppl if they want a sarm.

With that being said, sarm only cycles are a bad idea in general. I just wanted to throw that in here. If your on trt, or something like 4 Andro or even dermacrine then a sarm may pair nicely.

But sarm only cycles are asking for trouble, gains are low, and potential for sides may be higher because sarms don't convert to estrogen or dht and those things are necessary to make your Willy work and just feel good in general

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Going to be different for everyone, I will say that s23 seems to be the most side effects for people, lgd is pretty middle of the road, low sides and moderate gains. I usually reccomend lgd to ppl if they want a sarm.

With that being said, sarm only cycles are a bad idea in general. I just wanted to throw that in here. If your on trt, or something like 4 Andro or even dermacrine then a sarm may pair nicely.

But sarm only cycles are asking for trouble, gains are low, and potential for sides may be higher because sarms don't convert to estrogen or dht and those things are necessary to make your Willy work and just feel good in general

You like LGD?

 

[Smont]

To be fair I think methyl 1 test isn’t that toxic and it actually made me feel good so…. Just shows the whole “your experience may vary” with most of these products

Something being toxic and feeling bad or good don't always go hand in hand, I feel awesome on SD but it's liver toxic. But in general, liver toxicity is greatly over exaggerated. Liver toxicity is probably the last thing someone needs to worry about on cycle, your liver is resilient. Your heart and kidneys on the other hand are not very resilient and don't regenerate like your liver does.

 

[Smont]

You like LGD?

My favorite sarm by a long shot. I like 30+mg a day and I perfer the injectable version but I like the oral version too

 

[Smont]

I'm gonna log some lgd @60+mg a day in the spring, stocking up lol. Going to run it as long as blood work says it's ok

 

[Jeremyk1]

Seems to work good for females tho.

This got me thinking. Maybe ostarine displaces test, so a lot of guys get little to nothing from it. But women have much less testosterone of course, so it has positives on androgen activity. Who knows.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

My favorite sarm by a long shot. I like 30+mg a day and I perfer the injectable version but I like the oral version too

Sending you a pm

 

[Smont]

This got me thinking. Maybe ostarine displaces test, so a lot of guys get little to nothing from it. But women have much less testosterone of course, so it has positives on androgen activity. Who knows.

No clue, lots of guys seem to get gyno symptoms after coming off osta too.

Rad on the other hand I felt had positive effects on estrogen

 

[GreenMachineX]

I would say that I’m prone to the negative mental effects like anxiety or depression from certain substances, but did not have that experience with either Rad or LGD. MK677 did give me some anxiety and the ‘increased fear learning’ sides when I ran it for a few months at 25mg. All of this was on TRT. I ran Rad once before TRT and definitely experience suppression and some but shrinkage, but that wasn’t the most reliable brand and might have been Dbol.

What is this increased fear learning with mk677?

 

[natureman4]

What is this increased fear learning with mk677?

There was an mk study on rats a while back during which the increased activation of ghrelin receptors activated their amygdalas and heightened fear learning. The mechanism makes sense but there are various problems with the study and it would be impossible to conduct in humans. Anecdotally some people report developing panic disorders or ptsd symptoms on mk especially if they're already prone to anxiety, but there's no way to know if that'll happen with you.

 

[GreenMachineX]

There was an mk study on rats a while back during which the increased activation of ghrelin receptors activated their amygdalas and heightened fear learning. The mechanism makes sense but there are various problems with the study and it would be impossible to conduct in humans. Anecdotally some people report developing panic disorders or ptsd symptoms on mk especially if they're already prone to anxiety, but there's no way to know if that'll happen with you.

Wait, when I was running mk677 I'd when all my health anxiety junk started. Did I do this to myself???

 

[natureman4]

Wait, when I was running mk677 I'd when all my health anxiety junk started. Did I do this to myself???

It's certainly possible it was a contributing factor, especially if you were running it for a long time, but the research on ghrelin and anxiety isn't conclusive in any way and there are countless other reasons that anxiety can fluctuate in our lives. So I wouldn't put much time into worry or self-blame about it.

 

[KvanH]

Good question above and curious myself about rad140…Does it cause anxiety, anger, depression…? If so, how? I mean these things were supposed to be “selective and safe” remember all that shitt when they first came out lol…

I ran Lgd at 24 and had great results and damn near no sides…Looked a little soft but I was bulking. Pct was smooth.

Ran a methyl about 8 months ago and had anxiety, etc. Pct sucked…Thus I’m thinking of going back to sarms

How long did you run the LGD? What was the methyl in question?

 

[Rad83]

How long did you run the LGD? What was the methyl in question?

9 weeks and Msten ( some days were great and some just felt off….)

Lgd was with dermacrine and epiandro.
Msten with td 4 andro.

 

[Hyde]

Rad at basically makes me more aggressive round then clock. Good for prostate health, protecting against gyno some (selective ER binding in breast tissue), and strength with nominal weight gain. Just up the dose to lift the most

It’s becoming a thing in strongwoman allegedly. My wife had one run with it on top of Var; she was the hardest & driest I’ve ever seen her. Back striations coming through by end of her weight cut.

LGD was side free besides lethargy at 25-30 injected daily along with my steroid cycle.

S23 causes me insane cramping, worse than anything. Lots of acute aggression that I hate. Similar sides to oral steroids at similar mg, probably worse.

 

[WesleyInman]

There was an mk study on rats a while back during which the increased activation of ghrelin receptors activated their amygdalas and heightened fear learning. The mechanism makes sense but there are various problems with the study and it would be impossible to conduct in humans. Anecdotally some people report developing panic disorders or ptsd symptoms on mk especially if they're already prone to anxiety, but there's no way to know if that'll happen with you.

I have severe nightmares on mk677

Very vivid and violent dreams.

Part of the reason I rarely use it anymore. Otherwise the stuffs magic. I blow up off MK more then anadrol.

 

[Potbelly]

I have severe nightmares on mk677

Very vivid and violent dreams.

Part of the reason I rarely use it anymore. Otherwise the stuffs magic. I blow up off MK more then anadrol.

No lie I had the same thing with dreams and most scared the hell out of me

 

[Rad83]

Thanks to wes and pot above,…was considering the Mk for the recovery and all the rest it’s known for but think I should pass at the moment on the night terrors.

Thanks to all the replies, about the Rad140….It’s crazy how we can all respond so differently to things,…”all about chemistry” as the saying goes.

I wonder if we’ll ever get any truly selective, androgen receptor modulators….I guess I’m asking for an anabolic that’s ‘side free’ and I know better than that, lol…no free rides with this stuff.

 

[Smont]

I have severe nightmares on mk677

Very vivid and violent dreams.

Part of the reason I rarely use it anymore. Otherwise the stuffs magic. I blow up off MK more then anadrol.

Ya but there's a big difference between nightmares and fear learning. Isint there? Seems like 2 different things