Running a cycle with Low Natural test levels

B Man

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I'm 30yrs old in good health and been working out solid with no breaks from the gym other than a week here and there for the last 4 yrs.

Just had my bloods taken after not feeling up to par the last year. I've ran a few mild pro hormone cycles and always ran a good PCT but never did bloods. I know, slightly irresponsible, but I did always run a correct PCT afterwards to help natural levels recover and took the required or longer breaks between the next cycle. I don't think the cycles had anything to do with the lower level natural test, more to do with just life, alot of stress the last few years with work and wide open around the farm afterwards has just caught up with me I believe. Anyhow, my Test was 400 on a scale of 378-1176. My doctor wants me to try and stay natural long as possible and see if I can keep or get my natural levels up some without going on TRT, and no I DONT want to be on TRT, atleast not anytime soon.

So my question, I planned to run a LGD cycle for 8-10 weeks this summer. I've had three bottles stashed for over a year and my last cycle ended last June. Since then I've taken nothing but natural supplements and a fairly good diet.

What is your opinion on doing this with my test levels where they are? I would plan to run a fairly long clomid PCT afterwards. Possibly a low dose for about 3 months to help me with a good recovery. Or would this be to risky?
 
JahCure

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Are you feeling good? Libido good? Energy good? Able to get stronger and make small gains in the gym? If you aren't feeling signs of low T it is possible your body just runs on 400 T naturally.

If you are worried about your testosterone getting lower I would avoid any cycle for 5-10 years and try to stay natural as long as you aren't feeling the sides of low T, considering you are trying to avoid TRT.
 
B Man

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Mentally & physically it's dependent on the day. Some days I'm drained by that evening and dread anything I have to do when I get home to the farm. Libido, well I've had some ED issues the last few months, never had that in my life. But to be an open book, I blame that more on a rocky month or two with my wife about 6 months ago. Seems like it affected me mentally to not care for sex as much. The Doctor gave me some Viagra to see if it helped me mentally to gain back confidence and see if it was more of a mental thing. Symptoms are there for low T and why I went to have it checked, but also like I said earlier it's been a hell of a last two years with everything in life. Just one of those things we all go through I guess eventually.

In the gym, I've been about topped out unless I hit a mild cycle which after PCT I will preserve about 50-60% of what I gained and keep it until I hit another or make some small slight gains afterwards. I also change my diet around from a cut to slight bulk every few months and I always lose some on a cut, but then gain it back to maybe slightly more on a bulk. But everything is about where it has been for the last 8 months, very minor gains and why I wanted to do LGD.
 

CatSnake

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I don't think there's any way you can hope that the LGD cycle won't cause you negative HPTA issues.... even if you do a lengthy PCT, LGD is relatively suppressive after 3 weeks, let alone 8-10.

what you might want to do, is talk to your doc about using a SERM (clomid, in this case) long term to raise your testosterone levels, instead of going on TRT yet.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html
 
B Man

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I don't think there's any way you can hope that the LGD cycle won't cause you negative HPTA issues.... even if you do a lengthy PCT, LGD is relatively suppressive after 3 weeks, let alone 8-10.

what you might want to do, is talk to your doc about using a SERM (clomid, in this case) long term to raise your testosterone levels, instead of going on TRT yet.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/288103-info-serms.html
I have been doing alot of research on long term use of clomid for a TRT alternative. I do appreciate the nod in that direction.

I'm going by this evening to pick up a copy of my labs. I'm not sure what all was tested and on it but I'll post them up later today.

I expect my levels to drop while on LGD like any cycle, guess I'm asking what anyone with moderately low T levels has experienced, of they recovered back to the original base line.
 
B Man

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Doctor requested three test in the lab workup.

Testosterone, Serum-. Result- 378. Avg from males up to 40yrs old. ( 348-1197ng/dl)

LH-. Results 3.7 (1.7-8.6 mIU/mL)

FSH-. Results 1.8 (1.5-12.4 mIU/mL)
 

ericos_bob

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Personally I'd never do a cycle if my goal was to stay away from trt. As you know you're not doing your HPTA any favours. LGD is very suppressive make no mistake about that. There are people who recover to baseline fine after an lgd run and some that do not. It's always a gamble. There's a great thread to browse through discussing test levels and steroid use. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/291363-anyone-here-have.htmlThe general consensus being that even with proper pct many users inevitably end up on trt down the track. I +1 the move to discuss the use of a serm with your doctor as it sounds like it could help bring your levels up from the lower end of the range. BTW stress is no little thing. Suffered ED myself once during a very stressful time in my life and I don't have low test. See this post on stress and low T. Also a good general thread as it's a continuance of the former.http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/292561-do-most-people-3.html
 

CatSnake

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Mentally & physically it's dependent on the day. Some days I'm drained by that evening and dread anything I have to do when I get home to the farm. Libido, well I've had some ED issues the last few months, never had that in my life. But to be an open book, I blame that more on a rocky month or two with my wife about 6 months ago. Seems like it affected me mentally to not care for sex as much. The Doctor gave me some Viagra to see if it helped me mentally to gain back confidence and see if it was more of a mental thing. Symptoms are there for low T and why I went to have it checked, but also like I said earlier it's been a hell of a last two years with everything in life. Just one of those things we all go through I guess eventually.

In the gym, I've been about topped out unless I hit a mild cycle which after PCT I will preserve about 50-60% of what I gained and keep it until I hit another or make some small slight gains afterwards. I also change my diet around from a cut to slight bulk every few months and I always lose some on a cut, but then gain it back to maybe slightly more on a bulk. But everything is about where it has been for the last 8 months, very minor gains and why I wanted to do LGD.
are you still taking the viagra? there is some research showing that it can raise T levels, and lower E2 levels. not a huge effect, but promising, nonetheless...

did your doc check your vitamin D levels? the reason I ask, is because vitamin D, zinc and magnesium are all crucial in producing testosterone.... a deficiency in any of them can affect your total T. I believe the RDA for vitamin D is getting rehashed right now, as well, as people are finding out that's a common deficiency.

FWIW, I hope the marital/stress issues are worked out, as well.
 
Smont

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Running a cycle is completely counter productive to fixing your low test problem and just a terrible idea in general at this point. You can almost guarantee the it's going to walk you 1 step closer to being on trt
 
B Man

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are you still taking the viagra? there is some research showing that it can raise T levels, and lower E2 levels. not a huge effect, but promising, nonetheless...

did your doc check your vitamin D levels? the reason I ask, is because vitamin D, zinc and magnesium are all crucial in producing testosterone.... a deficiency in any of them can affect your total T. I believe the RDA for vitamin D is getting rehashed right now, as well, as people are finding out that's a common deficiency.

FWIW, I hope the marital/stress issues are worked out, as well.
Haven't even taken one yet honestly, I just got them this week. Far as vitamins go, you think Animal Pak vitamins has about what I would need? I use to take these, don't really mind pills.

Appreciate it man about the wife, things have been alot better the last while.

Running a cycle is completely counter productive to fixing your low test problem and just a terrible idea in general at this point. You can almost guarantee the it's going to walk you 1 step closer to being on trt
Yeah man, bad as I wanted to jump on it for a good bump you guys helped me decide to stay away. Of course we all know the answer I was looking to hear, but I knew to begin with what the answer was. Kinda sucks, nothing like getting that big boost once in awhile.
 

CatSnake

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Haven't even taken one yet honestly, I just got them this week. Far as vitamins go, you think Animal Pak vitamins has about what I would need? I use to take these, don't really mind pills.

Appreciate it man about the wife, things have been alot better the last while.



Yeah man, bad as I wanted to jump on it for a good bump you guys helped me decide to stay away. Of course we all know the answer I was looking to hear, but I knew to begin with what the answer was. Kinda sucks, nothing like getting that big boost once in awhile.
I'm not sure what Animal Pack has in it, but I know it's a lot...

typically I suggest taking ZMA before bed (since it helps with sleep as well) and 2,000-5,000 IU of vitamin D with a meal (since it's fat soluble). I recently switched from regular D to a formula with vitamin K in it, as there is some literature that suggests it might be more effective...
 
B Man

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I'm not sure what Animal Pack has in it, but I know it's a lot...

typically I suggest taking ZMA before bed (since it helps with sleep as well) and 2,000-5,000 IU of vitamin D with a meal (since it's fat soluble). I recently switched from regular D to a formula with vitamin K in it, as there is some literature that suggests it might be more effective...
Appreciate the advice, I read up on some studies today about Vit D that showed some promise. Asked about animal Pak because I've always taken it on & off, but it only has 680 IU of Vitamin D. I'll start supplementing more into my daily diet and see if it helps things increase.
 
Justlooking5

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IMO if you are feeling hypogonadal, have run AAS/prohormones, and have borderline test levels, you are likely experiencing suppression from hormone use. It may or may not be something that can be recovered without permanent treatment (TRT/clomid etc.).
 

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