RPN Havoc - first cycle advice

RacingSnake79

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Hi all, looking to run RPN Havoc as a first cycle on recommendations as a milder option. Hoping to break a bit of a plateau in training and improve a bit of shape.
I'm 38 and trained on and off for approx 8 years but consistently in the last 3.
Appreciate that it's all been said before around 'I've read this'll 'researched that' etc but wanted advice and experience from real people and not an advertising sales pitch before I dip my toe.
Getting Nolva or Clomid is pretty much out without not knowing what I am getting or even if I will actually get it.
Predator Nutrition state that no PTC is required, only liver support and a test booster. Screenshot attached.
Would an OTC support like CEL On Cycle Support and Live.52 followed by CEL M-Test surfice for 20/30/30/40 short Havoc cycle? Any recommended replacement also appreciated.
If there are any reservations then can anyone suggest a natty test stack as a comparative alternative as I m not prepared to risk my health.
Thanks in advance.
 

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20/30/30/40 would be a waste of a cycle in my opinion. 30/40/40/40/40 or 6 weeks would be best. Havoc will shut you down. Predator Nutrition will say anything to sell you more products. No SERM no cycle.
 
RacingSnake79 said:
Hi all, looking to run RPN Havoc as a first cycle on recommendations as a milder option. Hoping to break a bit of a plateau in training and improve a bit of shape.
I'm 38 and trained on and off for approx 8 years but consistently in the last 3.
Appreciate that it's all been said before around 'I've read this'll 'researched that' etc but wanted advice and experience from real people and not an advertising sales pitch before I dip my toe.
Getting Nolva or Clomid is pretty much out without not knowing what I am getting or even if I will actually get it.
Predator Nutrition state that no PTC is required, only liver support and a test booster. Screenshot attached.
Would an OTC support like CEL On Cycle Support and Live.52 followed by CEL M-Test surfice for 20/30/30/40 short Havoc cycle? Any recommended replacement also appreciated.
If there are any reservations then can anyone suggest a natty test stack as a comparative alternative as I m not prepared to risk my health.
Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
I really don't know when I was asking around about 11kt, everyone were suggesting me nolva and clomid, of course I didn't do them, it didn't suppressed me it was quite opposite I was experiencing fuller erections and my loads were bigger haha I'm not saying that you will have same effects especially when havoc is much stronger than 11kt, I will jump in my next cycle with 11oxo and furuza probably osta too with otc Ptc. In my experience if I started doing clomid or nolva it wouldn't do much probably I would expirience just side effects. BTW I'm new in this stuff as you are.
 
I suggest you do more research on the compounds your thinking of putting in your body before you start. OTC pct you can forget about too
 
Thanks Solidsnake, however that's why I am asking rather than taking what Predator say as gospel. 2 key points of my original post: looking to do first cycle (not started as many do) and advice on alternative/replacement products. I fully understand 'no serm no cycle' that is spoken but not consistently across all compounds and forums, hence why asking for recommendations on first cycle or natty stack.
Open to not running anything at all if there is even a slight doubt. Just thought a forum would be opinionated but constructive for options.
 
“I’m not prepared to risk my health”

BUT refuses serm, lmao
 
Apologies if either the query was miss understood or not read. I asked if the info from Predator was close to factual. I also said that, as a serm was probably out due to reliability of substance and/or postage could anyone suggest an alternative ie test booster stack etc rather then PH route as I wouldn't risk my health by running a cycle without the correct PCT or knowledge first. Was looking for options and advise, not criticism and mockery.
Thanks for taking the time to respond but as suggested, looks like I'll pass on the cycle and seek advice on non PH options.
 
Skeptik said:
I really don't know when I was asking around about 11kt, everyone were suggesting me nolva and clomid, of course I didn't do them, it didn't suppressed me it was quite opposite I was experiencing fuller erections and my loads were bigger haha I'm not saying that you will have same effects especially when havoc is much stronger than 11kt, I will jump in my next cycle with 11oxo and furuza probably osta too with otc Ptc. In my experience if I started doing clomid or nolva it wouldn't do much probably I would expirience just side effects. BTW I'm new in this stuff as you are.
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Idiot hahaha do as you please. 11kt is very mild. I’d still run a serm. You are much more likely to experience side effects from the ph than the serm. Side effects are way overblown by guys who take way too much. You guys will learn. When you’re not able to get it up you will regret your decision. Your body your choice but for the love of god be smart.
 
I think Havoc and Dermacrine was one of my favorite combos back in the day.

I would really recommend running a base like dermacrine when running havoc. would also suggest a dose of 30-40mg for 5-6 weeks.

Like most of the others, I wouldn't recommend skimping on PCT.
 
The Express 42 said:
Idiot hahaha do as you please. 11kt is very mild. I’d still run a serm. You are much more likely to experience side effects from the ph than the serm. Side effects are way overblown by guys who take way too much. You guys will learn. When you’re not able to get it up you will regret your decision. Your body your choice but for the love of god be smart.
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OK idiot my claim is if it will not suppress you what's the point of running the serm since they have side effects too. I have done log with 11kt and in week I'm doing blood work. Feel free to check out. Idiot
 
If you can’t or won’t get a serm then plan on months of feeling like crap and prob losing anything you gain on cycle. You simply won’t recover fast enough to maintain the new muscle.

That said here’s my recommendation:
Havoc
Cel cycle assist, tudca and and Sns taurine

Pct:
Serm (must have)
Sns inhibit e and reduce xt (epi is notorious for rebound e issues so I also suggest having a pharma ai on hand)
Cel mtest

If funds allow and you want a nice natty boost:
Sns x gels and f95
 
Thanks Booneman, that's kinda what I was looking for in terms of advice. It's not that I won't use a serm more not able to easily access one reliably so in the event of the general consensus being that a serm is paramount then I'd rather walk away than risk the effects.
Natty test booster route, ABE, X gels, Massmax xt, Alphamax xt and M-Test appear to be getting good reviews?
 
booneman77 said:
If you can’t or won’t get a serm then plan on months of feeling like crap and prob losing anything you gain on cycle. You simply won’t recover fast enough to maintain the new muscle.

That said here’s my recommendation:
Havoc
Cel cycle assist, tudca and and Sns taurine

Pct:
Serm (must have)
Sns inhibit e and reduce xt (epi is notorious for rebound e issues so I also suggest having a pharma ai on hand)
Cel mtest

If funds allow and you want a nice natty boost:
Sns x gels and f95
Click to expand...

This ^^^^ - you had a couple of ropey answers but this is spot on.

If you don’t want to get a serm then x gels probably your best bet.

Mk677 you may want to look at as well
 
RacingSnake79 said:
Thanks Booneman, that's kinda what I was looking for in terms of advice. It's not that I won't use a serm more not able to easily access one reliably so in the event of the general consensus being that a serm is paramount then I'd rather walk away than risk the effects.
Natty test booster route, ABE, X gels, Massmax xt, Alphamax xt and M-Test appear to be getting good reviews?
Click to expand...

Natty route: Foldidrone 2.0, Vector, Transdermal Laxogen. ARA works, but is inflammatory and I believe it causes long term effects.
 
Ok, so on advice (including 'ropey comments') I appreciate the gravity and impact if not the delivery. I don't think I'm ready for the PH route in knowledge, desire and available products.
Read good things about X Gels, as recommended above, and stacking with GMS and ALCAR to enhance. SNS stack with Growth Factor XT but is there anything else that stacks better (supp store is out of growth factor!)
 
RacingSnake79 said:
Thanks Booneman, that's kinda what I was looking for in terms of advice. It's not that I won't use a serm more not able to easily access one reliably so in the event of the general consensus being that a serm is paramount then I'd rather walk away than risk the effects.
Natty test booster route, ABE, X gels, Massmax xt, Alphamax xt and M-Test appear to be getting good reviews?
Click to expand...

Yeah it’s not that it’s required, but honestly if you don’t use it, you won’t like the result. Chances are tour body and hormones would recover but the time it takes (months vs weeks) would have you with SUPER low t and messed up e, cortisol, etc etc. after a cycle tour body is already in an awkward state as its carrying more muscle than is natural (or what it considers necessary) so keeping it on takes some time, lots of food, and obviously hormones triggering your body to keep it/build more. during that time your body is low on everything, it’s simply going to focus on preserving what is necessary to survive, not what it likes to see in the mirror ha ;)

All the natty stuff you have listed are great choices. My personal go to has always been Abe+Xgels (rip Abe tho). Alphamax would be my next sub (forskolin) and then beyond that myokem magnitropin (a really good all in one natty supp).
 
Skeptik said:
OK idiot my claim is if it will not suppress you what's the point of running the serm since they have side effects too. I have done log with 11kt and in week I'm doing blood work. Feel free to check out. Idiot
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okay idiot was a little harsh haha but your point is wrong. You will be somewhat supressed if you were using correct dosing and saw any positive effects. I would love to check your blood work if you actually post it. Did you take pre cycle bloodwork?
 
The Express 42 said:
okay idiot was a little harsh haha but your point is wrong. You will be somewhat supressed if you were using correct dosing and saw any positive effects. I would love to check your blood work if you actually post it. Did you take pre cycle bloodwork?
Click to expand...
Yes it's all in my log in couple of days I'm doing blood work
 
The Express 42 said:
okay idiot was a little harsh haha but your point is wrong. You will be somewhat supressed if you were using correct dosing and saw any positive effects. I would love to check your blood work if you actually post it. Did you take pre cycle bloodwork?
Click to expand...
300mg of transdermal 11kt is enough for some results and for now I see no point in using serms since they can cause side effects too
 
Skeptik said:
300mg of transdermal 11kt is enough for some results and for now I see no point in using serms since they can cause side effects too
Click to expand...

Looking forward to the bloodwork, one of us will be eating our words.
 
Did not read thread. But what i can say is if its anything like old school havoc/epistane. Respect it. Or it will disrespect you.
 
11kt no doubt much milder than epistane, but I also just realized you're only running for 30 days. Low risk, low reward, waste in my opinion for only 30 days.
 
The Express 42 said:
11kt no doubt much milder than epistane, but I also just realized you're only running for 30 days. Low risk, low reward, waste in my opinion for only 30 days.
Click to expand...
Just to see what it is and what are prohormones, I'm not claiming that you don't need serm for epistane and similar stuff but I am willing to prove that for mild cycle of 11kt and my next cycle 11oxo and furuza you can go with otc pct.
 
Skeptik said:
Just to see what it is and what are prohormones, I'm not claiming that you don't need serm for epistane and similar stuff but I am willing to prove that for mild cycle of 11kt and my next cycle 11oxo and furuza you can go with otc pct.
Click to expand...
With the presumption of 11kt being exactly like 11-oxo. Then yes, plenty have gotten away with little pct. However, dosing at high levels will need a good pct with serm on hand. In fact, serm should always be on hand when running cycles.
 
Just so you know op, I’m on havoc at the moment, alongside test and t3, 4 weeks in and it’s treating me very well, I have noticed in the last week my nuts are slightly starting to shrink, sign of suppression. I wouldn’t dream of not doing a serm during pct. in fact normally i do clomid but with possibility of e rebound with Epi I’m also using nolva. If you don’t serm it during pct, you’ll regret it one way or another...
 
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