Research Study: Amount of Protein ingestion during recovery

[bbsquatter]

A new research study paper was published on Dec 19, 2023, in the journal Cell Reports Medicine. The research is considered a landmark study because it results in a paradigm shift. The research study quashes the argument that ~ 20 g of protein is the maximum amount one should consume post-workout for growing (anabolism). Otherwise, according to gym lore, anything above that is wasted protein and injurious (oxidation).
Not so, says this research study.

It's a free link and worth reading if you wish to understand how protein builds muscle.

citation:

Trommelen, Jorn, et al. "The anabolic response to protein ingestion during recovery from exercise has no upper limit in magnitude and duration in vivo in humans." Cell Reports Medicine 4.12 (2023).

It is generally believed that the ingestion of ∼20 g protein maximizes postprandial muscle protein synthesis rates at rest and during recovery from exercise in healthy, young adults. However, the clinical evidence for this is based on dose-response studies with a small range of protein intakes (≤45 g) and relative short assessment periods (≤6 h).18,19,20 Here, we comprehensively assessed the time course of postprandial protein handling by applying a quadruple isotope tracer feeding-infusion approach in vivo in humans. To investigate potential upper limits and/or sustained elevation of postprandial protein metabolism, we provided the proposed optimal amount (25 g) and the largest amount of protein that we consider feasible to consume in a single meal (100 g) and evaluated postprandial protein handling throughout a prolonged 12-h assessment period. We observed higher plasma, muscle, and whole-body protein synthesis rates following the ingestion of 100 g protein when compared to 25 g protein and placebo, respectively. The greater metabolic responses were present during the early postprandial phase (0–4 h) but were even more pronounced during the prolonged postprandial phase (4–12 h). These data support our hypothesis that even very large amounts of dietary protein are effectively utilized to support postprandial tissue anabolism but require a more prolonged period for complete protein digestion and amino acid absorption to become available for incorporation into tissues.

It has been proposed that when dietary protein is consumed beyond the rate by which it can be utilized for protein synthesis, the excess amino acids will be directed toward oxidation.13,32 Our data do not provide any evidence for an upper limit to the whole-body protein synthetic response and, therefore, any disproportional increase in amino acid oxidation following the ingestion of a large amount of protein.

 

[sns8778]

Thanks for the link. I'll read in full detail myself later tonight when my day calms down.

I've never believed the 20 gram/25 gram number that gets thrown out by some people.

I've always been a believer in using 50 grams of protein post workout and that's what I do myself and have always suggested others to do. I've been here since 2005 and that's what I've always suggested ever since back then.

 

[bbsquatter]

Thanks for the link. I'll read in full detail myself later tonight when my day calms down.

I've never believed the 20 gram/25 gram number that gets thrown out by some people.

I've always been a believer in using 50 grams of protein post workout and that's what I do myself and have always suggested others to do. I've been here since 2005 and that's what I've always suggested ever since back then.

You're quite welcome. I have always sworn by the 50 gram rule for me. There is another reason to reject the 25 g of protein limitation but it is not mentioned in the article. It is covered in your basic physiology course and textbook. The stomach pushes food in the form of a bolus into the duodenum (small intestine) in small increments at a time. It only pushes the next increment when the duodenum has catabolized what it had received previously. Meaning, our food does not rush from our dinner table plate, down the esophagus, into the stomach and into the duodenum. that would be inefficient for the human body to do that. In this way, whatever protein is found in the first bolus can be catabolized, then repeated until all of the food we ingested has moved through the GI tract. I could look for it in a physiology textbook, in the GI section, but you likely could visualize it. That or I suck at explaining it. ;-) I will try to look for it in one of my medical textbooks as time allows.

 

[LucasBagoDoce]

Great post!

 

[sns8778]

You're quite welcome. I have always sworn by the 50 gram rule for me. There is another reason to reject the 25 g of protein limitation but it is not mentioned in the article. It is covered in your basic physiology course and textbook. The stomach pushes food in the form of a bolus into the duodenum (small intestine) in small increments at a time. It only pushes the next increment when the duodenum has catabolized what it had received previously. Meaning, our food does not rush from our dinner table plate, down the esophagus, into the stomach and into the duodenum. that would be inefficient for the human body to do that. In this way, whatever protein is found in the first bolus can be catabolized, then repeated until all of the food we ingested has moved through the GI tract. I could look for it in a physiology textbook, in the GI section, but you likely could visualize it. That or I suck at explaining it. ;-) I will try to look for it in one of my medical textbooks as time allows.

I think you explained it well in terms of whole foods.

Even in terms of protein shakes, the ease of digestion is another reason I always felt that it was desirable to do 50 grams in the post workout window. For me, that's as soon as I finish working out. I either do WPI or a WPI/Micellar blend. In theory, if really splitting hairs, straight WPI is probably most desirable in that scenario but for me, I drink so much protein and keep a few flavors open at a time and its sometimes just whatever flavor I'm in the mood for.

 

[bbsquatter]

I think you explained it well in terms of whole foods.

Even in terms of protein shakes, the ease of digestion is another reason I always felt that it was desirable to do 50 grams in the post workout window. For me, that's as soon as I finish working out. I either do WPI or a WPI/Micellar blend. In theory, if really splitting hairs, straight WPI is probably most desirable in that scenario but for me, I drink so much protein and keep a few flavors open at a time and its sometimes just whatever flavor I'm in the mood for.

I agree with you completely. So much of medicine, as we sadly saw with the CDC, NIH, FDA, COVID handling, is fraught with fighting about minutiae, e.g. masking, 6 feet distance, one vaccine, 3 vaccines, 6 vaccines, etc. When I see gym guys arguing about dosages of testosterone, supplements, types of protein intake, exercise technique and specificities, etc, I roll my eyes. Just get er done, and do whatever works for you. If it isn't precisely what the next guy thinks, you will likely live anyways.

Here is a source, free link, that provides the length of time food / chyme, takes in each compartment of the GI tract, supporting my argument. It can stay in the stomach for hours before moving onto the duodenum. See attached screen shot

Sensoy, Ilkay. "A review on the food digestion in the digestive tract and the used in vitro models." Current research in food science 4 (2021): 308-319. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2665927121000307

 

[sns8778]

I agree with you completely. So much of medicine, as we sadly saw with the CDC, NIH, FDA, COVID handling, is fraught with fighting about minutiae, e.g. masking, 6 feet distance, one vaccine, 3 vaccines, 6 vaccines, etc. When I see gym guys arguing about dosages of testosterone, supplements, types of protein intake, exercise technique and specificities, etc, I roll my eyes. Just get er done, and do whatever works for you. If it isn't precisely what the next guy thinks, you will likely live anyways.

Agreed. On the supplement side I see people sometimes bicker and nit pick the smallest of things while overlooking big picture type stuff completely.

A few examples I can think of right off hand:
- People worrying about the small amount of artificial color in a capsule while drinking a sports drink loaded with it.
- People worrying about an artificial sweetener in a pre-workout when they go out and party every weekend.
- People worrying about 1 random obscure study on something when the other 299 contradict it.
- People nit picking every little thing about an ingredient or form of an ingredient, but then buying from brands that don't do any type of quality testing, like not even microbial or heavy metals testing.

Nothing wrong with being health conscious and sure, if someone is truly avoiding all the little stuff then by all means, be as nit picky as they'd like - but I mean the people chugging Gatorade but complaining over colored capsules; or people using every aas and research chemical known to man and then acting like they're going to drop dead if their protein powder has sucralose in it.

 

[Resolve10]

A new research study paper was published on Dec 19, 2023, in the journal Cell Reports Medicine. The research is considered a landmark study because it results in a paradigm shift. The research study quashes the argument that ~ 20 g of protein is the maximum amount one should consume post-workout for growing (anabolism). Otherwise, according to gym lore, anything above that is wasted protein and injurious (oxidation).
Not so, says this research study.

It's a free link and worth reading if you wish to understand how protein builds muscle.

citation:

Trommelen, Jorn, et al. "The anabolic response to protein ingestion during recovery from exercise has no upper limit in magnitude and duration in vivo in humans." Cell Reports Medicine 4.12 (2023).

Definitely a pretty sweet study.

I think it definitely is pretty cool, especially because it does call into question some of the previous research. Even more so because it seems pretty well done and the stuff with the tracers and the cows is some pretty sweet science.

That said I always like to remain cautious in being too quick to totally shift a paradigm, especially on one study. Best not to let personal opinions and beliefs lend us to being to quick to reaffirm our own ideas (or conversely letting us not accept it fast enough though too!).

First, it is only one study. Science is always built on replicating data. I'd love to see this done in higher trained athletes, replicating this effect over time, and finding a way to implement this into a longer term study (maybe not with the actual tracing, but in terms of comparing the large intakes to smaller in actual muscle gains). It is important to remember sometimes these measurements and details don't always translate to changes in actual changes in measurable outcomes.

That said I think it definitely helps to maybe make people be less dogmatic (although I've already seen some try to use this to shift the other direction funny enough ). Maybe people can get by eating huge meals infrequently and do better than I initially thought! If anything that makes it again feel less stressful worrying about meal timings and can maybe mean it will be easier to just stick to what one enjoys and can stick to as long as they still eat adequate amounts.

You're quite welcome. I have always sworn by the 50 gram rule for me. There is another reason to reject the 25 g of protein limitation but it is not mentioned in the article. It is covered in your basic physiology course and textbook. The stomach pushes food in the form of a bolus into the duodenum (small intestine) in small increments at a time. It only pushes the next increment when the duodenum has catabolized what it had received previously. Meaning, our food does not rush from our dinner table plate, down the esophagus, into the stomach and into the duodenum. that would be inefficient for the human body to do that. In this way, whatever protein is found in the first bolus can be catabolized, then repeated until all of the food we ingested has moved through the GI tract. I could look for it in a physiology textbook, in the GI section, but you likely could visualize it. That or I suck at explaining it. ;-) I will try to look for it in one of my medical textbooks as time allows.

That is kind of missing the point of the discussion surrounding that point. The argument was never against the fact that you couldn't absorb all the protein you eat if you eat large amounts or in infrequent feedings, there are plenty of studies showing you absorb it. The issue was if you utilize it at tissue level and other potential implications.

This study definitely challenges some of those currently held notions though.

When I see gym guys arguing about dosages of testosterone, supplements, types of protein intake, exercise technique and specificities, etc, I roll my eyes. Just get er done, and do whatever works for you. If it isn't precisely what the next guy thinks, you will likely live anyways.

I mean it is always a balance to find the right level of application of what to apply and what to actually worry over, but you wouldn't have the information of what is actually optimal is someone wasn't out there working through all the possibilities. Do some people worry way too much about it? Sure. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have some people out there testing and studying these things to figure out what works best. Some people also enjoy these kinds of things, no reason to be condescending to people who like that kind of thing, again as long as they keep it balanced and aren't overbearing in their presentations imho.

 

[sns8778]

Definitely a pretty sweet study.

I think it definitely is pretty cool, especially because it does call into question some of the previous research. Even more so because it seems pretty well done and the stuff with the tracers and the cows is some pretty sweet science.

That said I always like to remain cautious in being too quick to totally shift a paradigm, especially on one study. Best not to let personal opinions and beliefs lend us to being to quick to reaffirm our own ideas (or conversely letting us not accept it fast enough though too!).

First, it is only one study. Science is always built on replicating data. I'd love to see this done in higher trained athletes, replicating this effect over time, and finding a way to implement this into a longer term study (maybe not with the actual tracing, but in terms of comparing the large intakes to smaller in actual muscle gains). It is important to remember sometimes these measurements and details don't always translate to changes in actual changes in measurable outcomes.

That said I think it definitely helps to maybe make people be less dogmatic (although I've already seen some try to use this to shift the other direction funny enough ). Maybe people can get by eating huge meals infrequently and do better than I initially thought! If anything that makes it again feel less stressful worrying about meal timings and can maybe mean it will be easier to just stick to what one enjoys and can stick to as long as they still eat adequate amounts.

That is kind of missing the point of the discussion surrounding that point. The argument was never against the fact that you couldn't absorb all the protein you eat if you eat large amounts or in infrequent feedings, there are plenty of studies showing you absorb it. The issue was if you utilize it at tissue level and other potential implications.

This study definitely challenges some of those currently held notions though.

I mean it is always a balance to find the right level of application of what to apply and what to actually worry over, but you wouldn't have the information of what is actually optimal is someone wasn't out there working through all the possibilities. Do some people worry way too much about it? Sure. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have some people out there testing and studying these things to figure out what works best. Some people also enjoy these kinds of things, no reason to be condescending to people who like that kind of thing, again as long as they keep it balanced and aren't overbearing in their presentations imho.

Very well said and I agree. For me, that study doesn't change my view of anything one way or the other, but that's because I always held the view of thinking 20 to 25 grams of protein after a workout was too low, at least for me.

I do think he was talking about the people that really do argue that you can't absorb more than 25 grams at a time - I've heard that more and more again in the last few years - I think likely egged on by some brands and spokespeople bc talk on that started to kick back up again when protein prices went up, so I think it was some people's way of marketing to people to still buy and use protein powder even if it was just one scoop instead of the traditional 2.

Also agree about balance - I didn't take him to mean he was making fun or being condescending to anyone that thought a certain way. I don't know him at all, so if that's the way he meant it, I don't agree with ever making fun of people for their own beliefs, and especially if its just kicking around ideas. I took it as he was like mentally rolling his eyes, like thinking they're nit picking things rather than worrying about big picture stuff. Not speaking for him, more speaking for the way I took it and what I meant myself by agreeing with it - like in my example above about someone drinking sports drinks with artificial colors being hateful about artificial colored in capsules. I hope that makes sense.

 

[Resolve10]

Very well said and I agree. For me, that study doesn't change my view of anything one way or the other, but that's because I always held the view of thinking 20 to 25 grams of protein after a workout was too low, at least for me.

I do think he was talking about the people that really do argue that you can't absorb more than 25 grams at a time - I've heard that more and more again in the last few years - I think likely egged on by some brands and spokespeople bc talk on that started to kick back up again when protein prices went up, so I think it was some people's way of marketing to people to still buy and use protein powder even if it was just one scoop instead of the traditional 2.

Also agree about balance - I didn't take him to mean he was making fun or being condescending to anyone that thought a certain way. I don't know him at all, so if that's the way he meant it, I don't agree with ever making fun of people for their own beliefs, and especially if its just kicking around ideas. I took it as he was like mentally rolling his eyes, like thinking they're nit picking things rather than worrying about big picture stuff. Not speaking for him, more speaking for the way I took it and what I meant myself by agreeing with it - like in my example above about someone drinking sports drinks with artificial colors being hateful about artificial colored in capsules. I hope that makes sense.

Ya I don’t think he was meaning it that way, I might have worded it wrong.

I’m away from the social media scene a decent bit so I probably miss some of the annoying stuff more and don’t know what’s commonly being parroted I guess.

 

[bbsquatter]

I do think he was talking about the people that really do argue that you can't absorb more than 25 grams at a time -

Yup. People argue that more than 25 g causes GI upset, damages the x, y and z, etc. all nonsense. Now the data is there to show as such

cheers

 

[scoooter]

Is it still accepted that 1G protein is needed per pound

I think of it as a 90kg person is not entirely made up of 90kg of muscle