Recomp cycle critique

hamdysayed said:
can u stack ignit3 with bs war edition ?
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Could you? yes

Would I? No, because that is a lot of stims at a full dose of each and I wouldn't waste a run at half dose of either. Furthermore, you don't need both if you are using 11-kt et al
 
hamdysayed said:
ditch sup3r 4 , like return it honestly !
buy sup3r 11kt from nutriverse while it last as it discontinued 3 bottles for 2 month run, depends how high u want to dose.
as far fat loss aid supplement they have quite few options ( I don't use alot of natty supps) GNO could give u better advice.
but for sure for sure ditch the sup3r 4.
how long u going to run cycle and when ?
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I was considering your suggestion back in past #30, to do a 3 month run. I just need to save up to get enough 11kt first, then I'm hoping for a sale before getting started to get the epi and whatever else I may run/need.

I have a physical in November in which I'm hoping to convince my doctor to give me a script to get my T and E checked (not so easy to do in NY, thanks to f....in politicians and bureaucrats). I'll probably shoot for beginning of December. I think I definitely want to log it here and show some love for OL as well as to help keep me as motivated as possible especially during the holidays!
 
GNO said:
Could you? yes

Would I? No, because that is a lot of stims at a full dose of each and I wouldn't waste a run at half dose of either. Furthermore, you don't need both if you are using 11-kt et al
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in a deep cut I'll need all stimsout there lol
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Unlikely receptors will be saturated with this. The more likely scenario is conversion enzyme limitations...but how likely? No-one knows for sure, and Im skeptical its the kind of thing we'd ever have hard fixed data on anyway.

Put it this way, people have been running these compounds at doses far higher than you plan, for years. There will be diminishing returns, but thats true of any compound.

Epiandro is one of those compounds quite amenable to dose timing experimentation. Some guys prefer a large single dose pre wo due to acute CNS stim-type effects; some, like me, dont notice this so much. Experiment, and be mindful of dosing close to bed.
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I take 2 caps of Epi in the AM when I get up and 1 more a bit after dinner time. I get the stim like effect. I can sleep regardless but it is easier to sleep without feeling jacked up ?. On that same note i feel like I wake up better as well taking the 2 in the AM.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Unlikely receptors will be saturated with this. The more likely scenario is conversion enzyme limitations...but how likely? No-one knows for sure, and Im skeptical its the kind of thing we'd ever have hard fixed data on anyway.

Put it this way, people have been running these compounds at doses far higher than you plan, for years. There will be diminishing returns, but thats true of any compound.

Epiandro is one of those compounds quite amenable to dose timing experimentation. Some guys prefer a large single dose pre wo due to acute CNS stim-type effects; some, like me, dont notice this so much. Experiment, and be mindful of dosing close to bed.
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Do you know of any data on conversion enzymes at all? I mean I know you said you don't but even links to anecdotal reports would be good. I'm considering adding tr3st near the end of my run here but this brings up a good point. I know enzymes can be saturated (I mean that's how a lot of AI's work) but somehow the idea that the conversion enzymes for these prodrugs could be saturated.
 
hamdysayed said:
ditch sup3r 4 , like return it honestly !
buy sup3r 11kt from nutriverse while it last as it discontinued 3 bottles for 2 month run, depends how high u want to dose.
as far fat loss aid supplement they have quite few options ( I don't use alot of natty supps) GNO could give u better advice.
but for sure for sure ditch the sup3r 4.
how long u going to run cycle and when ?
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Doesn't seem like anyone is a fan of 4. Is that because he's not trying to bulk or everyone just doesn't like that compound?
 
hamdysayed said:
ditch sup3r 4 , like return it honestly !
buy sup3r 11kt from nutriverse while it last as it discontinued 3 bottles for 2 month run, depends how high u want to dose.
as far fat loss aid supplement they have quite few options ( I don't use alot of natty supps) GNO could give u better advice.
but for sure for sure ditch the sup3r 4.
how long u going to run cycle and when ?
Click to expand...
hamdysayed
So if I'm doing my math right you're doing 375mg/day of 11kt? And stick to 2 months vs originally suggested 3 months?
 
hamdysayed said:
lmao yes i blame GNO and ol for emptying my wallet , also if u going to run it in December u might be able to get whatever ol uk going to launch to get us folks shr3eded
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It's there something new coming in December? That wasn't a drunken post?
If that's case I may have to give the raincheck on her Xmas present!

I'm going to need a 3rd job just to support my OL habit!!!
 
Br1ck_Sh1thouse said:
It's there something new coming in December? That wasn't a drunken post?
If that's case I may have to give the raincheck on her Xmas present!

I'm going to need a 3rd job just to support my OL habit!!!
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Sup3r-Shred will be out before Dec, but there may be other presents from OL US ;)
 
GNO said:
Sup3r-Shred will be out before Dec, but there may be other presents from OL US ;)
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That's it now I'm going to have to quit sleeping and start flipping burgers. Can you guys lay off your own supplements and slow this creativity down SOME!!

jk - keep it coming!
 
hamdysayed said:
ditch sup3r 4 , like return it honestly !
buy sup3r 11kt from nutriverse while it last as it discontinued 3 bottles for 2 month run, depends how high u want to dose.
as far fat loss aid supplement they have quite few options ( I don't use alot of natty supps) GNO could give u better advice.
but for sure for sure ditch the sup3r 4.
how long u going to run cycle and when ?
Click to expand...
hamdysayed
So if I'm doing my math right you're doing 375mg/day of 11kt? And stick to 2 months vs originally suggested 3 months?

Also is your aversion to the 4ad just for cutting or all the way around?
 
Br1ck_Sh1thouse said:
hamdysayed
So if I'm doing my math right you're doing 375mg/day of 11kt? And stick to 2 months vs originally suggested 3 months?
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I'm running it for 10 weeks , and I'm doing 2 pumps a day, and it's awesome.
4 andro will just bloat u and u will need an ai.
3 month will get u good results , also u might want to get extra bottle of sup3r 11 kt just cos they can be short on days sometimes
 
4-AD is considered "Wet", due to *possible* aromatization of Test into Estrogen. This can lead to water retention. If someone wanted to stay "Dry" (going into a contest, for the Summer months, etc... for example) they would avoid wet compounds. IMO (and I'm not as experienced as a lot on here) unless I had to look bone dry for some reason, I'd always use 4-AD or TD DHEA (depending on how suppressive the main anabolic was). "Test Is Best" - it helps both LBM and Fat Loss...it also converts, via 5aR, to DHT. Estrogen is also desirable for many reasons - just as long as it doesn't go too out of range and cause problems. I can understand why someone would say no 4-AD for a cut, but I'm not sure that I go along with that logic. *Speaking strictly for legal, 2 step, PH's* they don't convert to more Test than Test Cyp TRT - and people cut on TRT all the time. That's just my opinion anyway.
 
hamdysayed said:
haventseen anyone make gainz from it,just water weight
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Not for "gainzzz", no - it's a base. But small changes within the physiological range *have* shown to increase fat loss in research. And then there's Libido/Feel Good as well. It's why natty test boosters aren't 100% useless, depending on your discretionary supp dollars and goal/expectation. I always use 4-AD and Epi as a base = double punch.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
4-AD is considered "Wet", due to *possible* aromatization of Test into Estrogen. This can lead to water retention. If someone wanted to stay "Dry" (going into a contest, for the Summer months, etc... for example) they would avoid wet compounds. IMO (and I'm not as experienced as a lot on here) unless I had to look bone dry for some reason, I'd always use 4-AD or TD DHEA (depending on how suppressive the main anabolic was). "Test Is Best" - it helps both LBM and Fat Loss...it also converts, via 5aR, to DHT. Estrogen is also desirable for many reasons - just as long as it doesn't go too out of range and cause problems. I can understand why someone would say no 4-AD for a cut, but I'm not sure that I go along with that logic. *Speaking strictly for legal, 2 step, PH's* they don't convert to more Test than Test Cyp TRT - and people cut on TRT all the time. That's just my opinion anyway.
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Well I'd like to add that I believe it converts just fine. Thought I had a touch of gyno recently and spent a few days on Clom until a real AI came in the mail. If it's not really causing the gains that I've had so far then the Epi/MK/low doses OSTA has sole providence on the few lean lb's. My joints and old injuries are like totally GONE, major upside to the wetness. Gains have been modest though and so I grabbed a bottle of Tr3st recently to drop in for the last 3-4 weeks.
The_Old_Guy said:
Not for "gainzzz", no - it's a base. But small changes within the physiological range *have* shown to increase fat loss in research. And then there's Libido/Feel Good as well. It's why natty test boosters aren't 100% useless, depending on your discretionary supp dollars and goal/expectation. I always use 4-AD and Epi as a base = double punch.
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Now I can also confirm that. While I gained 7lb's these last 4 weeks my body comp scale says that my body fat % was still down by 2%. Water up by about 1%. That's a so far value, we shall see how throwing a methylated compound in there impacts those values. Nothing super stellar but I've enjoyed the strength and the libido to be sure ?.

By the way I don't know that I've suffered much suppression during this run either. The boys seem to be doing fine in size. Not that this is the only way to tell of course. I'll get another blood panel near the end and one a few weeks into PCT, but the Andro's seem to be mild, as many users I've read suggested they are.
 
So reading what I am on 11-kt, stuff sounds awesome. Is it suppressive at all? It doesn't even sound like a real prodrug (not that they are the only ones who can supress). I'm not going to go off of what Olympus or any company that sells a product and an OTC PCT plan says in regards to needing PCT for something. I'm wondering could it be tossed into a PCT regime or possibly be used into your "break" period like a naty booster?
 
sespress said:
So reading what I am on 11-kt, stuff sounds awesome. Is it suppressive at all? It doesn't even sound like a real prodrug (not that they are the only ones who can supress). I'm not going to go off of what Olympus or any company that sells a product and an OTC PCT plan says in regards to needing PCT for something. I'm wondering could it be tossed into a PCT regime or possibly be used into your "break" period like a naty booster?
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It is definitely suppressive. It's 11 keto testosterone
 
sespress said:
So reading what I am on 11-kt, stuff sounds awesome. Is it suppressive at all? It doesn't even sound like a real prodrug (not that they are the only ones who can supress). I'm not going to go off of what Olympus or any company that sells a product and an OTC PCT plan says in regards to needing PCT for something. I'm wondering could it be tossed into a PCT regime or possibly be used into your "break" period like a naty booster?
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It's suppressive u can't use it in a pct its not prohormone , it's an active hormone
 
And now I'm just being a pain, sorry br1ck I just hijacked things for a moment.... Why is sup3r 11 being discontinued? Seems like OL and other companies drop popular supps all the time. They going to come out with another 11-kt topical?
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Not for "gainzzz", no - it's a base. But small changes within the physiological range *have* shown to increase fat loss in research. And then there's Libido/Feel Good as well. It's why natty test boosters aren't 100% useless, depending on your discretionary supp dollars and goal/expectation. I always use 4-AD and Epi as a base = double punch.
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i agree, I think he will do better without it, and also won't have to worry about estro sides and epiandro will help him better with his cut.
 
sespress said:
And now I'm just being a pain, sorry br1ck I just hijacked things for a moment.... Why is sup3r 11 being discontinued? Seems like OL and other companies drop popular supps all the time. They going to come out with another 11-kt topical?
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They said they r done with it and they moving on to better things like sup3r shred, forgot why they DC sup3r 11
 
sespress said:
And now I'm just being a pain, sorry br1ck I just hijacked things for a moment.... Why is sup3r 11 being discontinued? Seems like OL and other companies drop popular supps all the time. They going to come out with another 11-kt topical?
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Because the patent owner won't allow companies to continue producing it. That is the truth you won't here anywhere else. Same goes for 11-oxo and 2 andro.
 
sespress said:
Heh, and who is the patent owner?
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I can't go into all of that but there is one company that owns all the andro patents and it's up to them whether or not a compound is allowed to be used. Technically 11-kt is not Dasca compliant anyway so never should have been re-released
 
yates84 said:
I can't go into all of that but there is one company that owns all the andro patents and it's up to them whether or not a compound is allowed to be used. Technically 11-kt is not Dasca compliant anyway so never should have been re-released
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Some googling leads me to one company that just bought/merged with some other companies, there's an article on m&m about it
"What Legal Prohormones Are Left?"
 
sespress said:
Do you know of any data on conversion enzymes at all? I mean I know you said you don't but even links to anecdotal reports would be good. I'm considering adding tr3st near the end of my run here but this brings up a good point. I know enzymes can be saturated (I mean that's how a lot of AI's work) but somehow the idea that the conversion enzymes for these prodrugs could be saturated.
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Ive never come across anything that amounts to much more than guesswork and conjecture.

The anecdotal data we do have though strongly supports the practice of running these compounds successfully within a certain dose range and stacking them.

As long as your doses are reasonable, and your stacks dont involve too much overlap, you shouldnt have too much to worry about.

I honestly think that sides are going to be more of a concern than depletion of conversion enzymes; that is, most guys will see an increase in the former before they significantly exhaust the latter.

And, as I said earlier, there will always be diminishing returns once you start reaching a certain point.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
4-AD is considered "Wet", due to *possible* aromatization of Test into Estrogen. This can lead to water retention. If someone wanted to stay "Dry" (going into a contest, for the Summer months, etc... for example) they would avoid wet compounds. IMO (and I'm not as experienced as a lot on here) unless I had to look bone dry for some reason, I'd always use 4-AD or TD DHEA (depending on how suppressive the main anabolic was). "Test Is Best" - it helps both LBM and Fat Loss...it also converts, via 5aR, to DHT. Estrogen is also desirable for many reasons - just as long as it doesn't go too out of range and cause problems. I can understand why someone would say no 4-AD for a cut, but I'm not sure that I go along with that logic. *Speaking strictly for legal, 2 step, PH's* they don't convert to more Test than Test Cyp TRT - and people cut on TRT all the time. That's just my opinion anyway.
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Id agree, 1-4-epiandro is a much more "complete" stack than just 1-epiandro.

Generally speaking though, most guys asking for an andro based stack that will help them with keeping gains lean/recomping/leaning out would likely get discouraged during their cycle if they started losing ab definition.

When your cycle appears to be going against your goals, that can obviously be a mind fuk.

Ive seen it happen before: dudes get a bit of transitory water retention and "ab blurring", freak out, and start messing with diet. This ends up jeopardising their cycle.

Again, generalising, a 1-epiandro combo can tend to be a much more beginner-friendly combo than 1-4, dependant on goals.
 
NewAgeMayan said:
Id agree, 1-4-epiandro is a much more "complete" stack than just 1-epiandro.

Generally speaking though, most guys asking for an andro based stack that will help them with keeping gains lean/recomping/leaning out would likely get discouraged during their cycle if they started losing ab definition.

When your cycle appears to be going against your goals, that can obviously be a mind fuk.

Ive seen it happen before: dudes get a bit of transitory water retention and "ab blurring", freak out, and start messing with diet. This ends up jeopardising their cycle.

Again, generalising, a 1-epiandro combo can tend to be a much more beginner-friendly combo than 1-4, dependant on goals.
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Very great point, I would chose epiandro over 4 andro,all the water weight messes with my bp
 
yates84 said:
I can't go into all of that but there is one company that owns all the andro patents and it's up to them whether or not a compound is allowed to be used. Technically 11-kt is not Dasca compliant anyway so never should have been re-released
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The guy who actually invented them (and then sold his company to the current patent holder) was just on a podcast I listen too - he had some very interesting ideas about compounds, that's for sure :D
 
Br1ck_Sh1thouse said:
GNO Jebrook
Don't suppose you can give us any hints on the sup3r shred and/or the other goodies? New ingredients or a re-inventive twist on existing ingredients? I'll even start a new teaser thread if that'll yield some results!
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Nope and no it won't lol
 
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