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Receptors

Marc11

New member
Hi can anyone tell me if your receptors desensitized to testosterone does sensitivity come back thanks
 
yes and yes a little..
that why you start small. you lose a little ground each time you cycle receptor wise.
 
Ok i was on for 20 years got no sex drive all my horomes are in range his put me on trt i can't feel my drive still he has said my receptors insensitive not responding so well will it come back?
 
Marc11 said:
Subbed what do u mine
Click to expand...

Subbed means subscribed as in I'm entering that comment to subscribe to the thread. Now it will send me email notifications and follow the thread in my account so that I can read the information which others share here.
 
Marc11 said:
Hi can anyone tell me if your receptors desensitized to testosterone does sensitivity come back thanks
Click to expand...
Double checking data

Yup, it's bro science

What kind of doc are you seeing? Endocrinologist?
 
saywutrly said:
Subbed means subscribed as in I'm entering that comment to subscribe to the thread. Now it will send me email notifications and follow the thread in my account so that I can read the information which others share here.
Click to expand...
FWIW I know everyone posts "subbed" in a thread as a means to get subscribed but it really isn't required. The forum has a function for doing so without having to post.
Invalid Link Removed
 
David Dunn said:
FWIW I know everyone posts "subbed" in a thread as a means to get subscribed but it really isn't required. The forum has a function for doing so without having to post.
Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip, sir. Not all forums have it, and the vast majority did not in the beginning, so us geeks tend to do it the old school way.
 
From Patrick Arnold blog

Editors Note: The following article is a guest blog by Farmacist
Bioidentical hormone replacement is a popular treatment for women (and men) that uses steroids identical in structure to what the body naturally produces, instead of a nonhuman estrogen or progestin. In a certain percentage of patients, increased doses are needed to achieve a reduction in symptoms. There are patients who do not respond to increased doses, and some of these fall into a category of hormone hyperexcretors.
In these patients, a 24 urine analysis reveals metabolite level 50% to 1800% higher than what would normally be expected. For whatever reason, these patients ability to eliminate estrogen is upregulated, and they end up peeing out estrogen at too high of a rate to get the beneficial effects.
This is all great but as this blog isn’t targeted to postmenopausal women, what the significance of this?
Its very possible something similar happens with high levels of androgens. Historically, switching esters or mixing up the types of steroids used were strategies to avoid plateauing. A lot of talk about receptor sensitivity and up/down regulation has been discussed on this topic, but increased metabolism and elimination is an angle that hasn’t been covered as much. This certainly could be a factor in why response to an androgen decreases over time.
In the BHRT women, there is a strategy of using cobalt to affect steroid metabolism to essentially retain more drug in the body so it is able to stay active longer. The way this is accomplished to by taking small amounts of cobalt orally for a period of about 3 months.
There is mention of this being used in male BHRT as well and a few anecdotal experiences can be found on the web, but its far from certain that this would work. What is known is that oral cobalt can decrease the activity cytochrome p450 enzymes in the liver, and this can affect the metabolism of steroids.
Dose appears to very important in getting the desired effect from cobalt, as it may have opposing action at high doses as it does at lower doses.1 The BHRT women used in the neighborhood of 500mcg per day to restore hormone action, and this dose in humans is not expected to cause toxicity.1
In rats high doses suppress androgens and can cause testicular necrosis.2 Low doses of a cobalt compound has shown to improve the protein to fat ratio without affecting testosterone levels.3
1. .addisons-network.co.uk/hyperexcretion2.pdf
2. ://vet.sagepub.com/content/22/6/610.full.pdf
3. US patent 4997828
RSS Filed under: Chemistry, Diet & Nutrition, General
 
David Dunn said:
FWIW I know everyone posts "subbed" in a thread as a means to get subscribed but it really isn't required. The forum has a function for doing so without having to post.
Click to expand...

Using the comment instead of tapping the subscribe button also lets Op and subsequent commenters know others are interested in the topic. That's the way I look at it, at least.
 
Montego1 said:
No you don't desensitize.
Click to expand...
I still disagree.
if they didn't get whacked, I would still be using the same dose and product that worked for me yrs ago. that simply is not the case.
not only does it take a little more dose, but now I ususally need to stack a couple hormones together. also there is some data I know ive read about it before. its been awhile but its out there..
the same thing happens when you use clen/ephedrine.. ect. pot .. you name it.. you have heard this referred to as tolerance~
tolerance happens when the target receptor is downregulated or underperforming. once this happens you need more to illicit the same or like response.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I still disagree.
if they didn't get whacked, I would still be using the same dose and product that worked for me yrs ago. that simply is not the case.
not only does it take a little more dose, but now I ususally need to stack a couple hormones together. also there is some data I know ive read about it before. its been awhile but its out there..
the same thing happens when you use clen/ephedrine.. ect. pot .. you name it.. you have heard this referred to as tolerance~
tolerance happens when the target receptor is downregulated or underperforming. once this happens you need more to illicit the same or like response.
Click to expand...

Guess you didn't read the article.

you also aren't the same size as you were years ago ( at least I hope not)
There are other factors at play keeping you from getting bigger, leaner, stronger off steroids.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I still disagree.
if they didn't get whacked, I would still be using the same dose and product that worked for me yrs ago. that simply is not the case.
not only does it take a little more dose, but now I ususally need to stack a couple hormones together. also there is some data I know ive read about it before. its been awhile but its out there..
the same thing happens when you use clen/ephedrine.. ect. pot .. you name it.. you have heard this referred to as tolerance~
tolerance happens when the target receptor is downregulated or underperforming. once this happens you need more to illicit the same or like response.
Click to expand...
For test levels to be the same or results?

Two totally different things.
 
I did read the article... and.." A lot of talk about receptor sensitivity and up/down regulation has been discussed on this topic, but increased metabolism and elimination is an angle that hasn’t been covered as much. This certainly could be a factor in why response to an androgen decreases over time".

no where did I see this as validating proof of any sort.
 
here is an article talking about using AR downregulation to facilitate a new therapy in the prostate..
Invalid Link Removed
 
this is getting onto a whole new level. you are talking about checmicals altering structures on a cellular level.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
not sure what you are saying or if we are even talking about the same thing.. here is a study talking about receptor downregulation..
Click to expand...

okay, here we have an in vitro study. done in a petri dish.
T at high concentrations (100 nM) acted like dihydrotestosterone (DHT) in increasing moderately the levels of AR mRNA in both proliferating and contact-inhibited cells.
However, when conversion of T to DHT was blocked by the 5-alpha reductase inhibitor finasteride, the levels of AR mRNA were considerably down-regulated by T (10-500 nM), particularly in the contact-inhibited cells.
Finasteride by itself was inactive.
These effects in both types of cultures were inhibited by platelet derived growth factor (PDGF) (20 ng/ml), a growth factor that up-regulates AR mRNA levels, and by fadrozole (100 nM), an aromatase inhibitor of the T/estrogen conversion. Estradiol (50 nM) was even more potent than T in decreasing AR mRNA levels.
Our results indicate that it is possible to modulate in vitro AR mRNA levels in the penile smooth muscle cells, and that under normal conditions DHT and T act as moderate up-regulators. When DHT formation is inhibited, the aromatization pathway of T to estradiol will prevail and induce a pronounced down-regulation of AR mRNA levels.
We assume that the in vivo AR down-regulation in the penile smooth muscle by androgens is an indirect effect mediated by a paracrine or endocrine mechanism elicited in another tissue.

lastly, of course less information is going to be sent by testosterone than by dht, dht binds more strongly to the androgen receptor. this study also shows that the more androgens you pump into your body, as well as adding in aromatase inhibitors, and plate derived growth factor, the stronger the signal being sent or in scientific terms, upregulation of the Androgen Receptor Messenger RNA

but thank you for finding this an confirming that steroids do in fact cause an up regulation of the androgen receptor, and we can further increase the signals by adding in anti estrogens and other drugs. :thumbsup:
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
I did read the article... and.." A lot of talk about receptor sensitivity and up/down regulation has been discussed on this topic, but increased metabolism and elimination is an angle that hasn’t been covered as much. This certainly could be a factor in why response to an androgen decreases over time".

no where did I see this as validating proof of any sort.
Click to expand...

it's all good. :thumbsup:

sigh, man, this is such a complex discussion. do you understand the closer you get to your genetic limit, other factors on a cellular level are going to be limiting how big you can get? this is why you have to pump more drugs into your body such as more androgens, more anti estrogens, more igf, more hgh, etc.
myostatin is a huge factor most should know about, this limits how much you can grow, and the longer you are on cycle, the more of it your body is going to produce.
but androgen receptor signaling isn't effected by consistently using androgens. the opposite. the stronger the androgen, the more activity will take place.
other factors such as estrogen, lack of certain enzymes, etc are going to have an effect on this instead.
 
brofessorx said:
it's all good. :thumbsup:

sigh, man, this is such a complex discussion. do you understand the closer you get to your genetic limit, other factors on a cellular level are going to be limiting how big you can get? this is why you have to pump more drugs into your body such as more androgens, more anti estrogens, more igf, more hgh, etc.
myostatin is a huge factor most should know about, this limits how much you can grow, and the longer you are on cycle, the more of it your body is going to produce.
but androgen receptor signaling isn't effected by consistently using androgens. the opposite. the stronger the androgen, the more activity will take place.
other factors such as estrogen, lack of certain enzymes, etc are going to have an effect on this instead.
Click to expand...
I do agree with you here for sure.. there is no doubt that all of this stuff is relevant.
 
brofessorx said:
Editors Note: The following article is a guest blog by Farmacist
Bioidentical hormone replacement is a popular treatment for women (and men) that uses steroids identical in structure to what the body naturally produces, instead of a nonhuman estrogen or progestin. In a certain percentage of patients, increased doses are needed to achieve a reduction in symptoms. There are patients who do not respond to increased doses, and some of these fall into a category of hormone hyperexcretors.
In these patients, a 24 urine analysis reveals metabolite level 50% to 1800% higher than what would normally be expected. For whatever reason, these patients ability to eliminate estrogen is upregulated, and they end up peeing out estrogen at too high of a rate to get the beneficial effects.
This is all great but as this blog isn’t targeted to postmenopausal women, what the significance of this?
Its very possible something similar happens with high levels of androgens. Historically, switching esters or mixing up the types of steroids used were strategies to avoid plateauing. A lot of talk about receptor sensitivity and up/down regulation has been discussed on this topic, but increased metabolism and elimination is an angle that hasn’t been covered as much. This certainly could be a factor in why response to an androgen decreases over time.
In the BHRT women, there is a strategy of using cobalt to affect steroid metabolism to essentially retain more drug in the body so it is able to stay active longer. The way this is accomplished to by taking small amounts of cobalt orally for a period of about 3 months.
There is mention of this being used in male BHRT as well and a few anecdotal experiences can be found on the web, but its far from certain that this would work. What is known is that oral cobalt can decrease the activity cytochrome p450 enzymes in the liver, and this can affect the metabolism of steroids.
Dose appears to very important in getting the desired effect from cobalt, as it may have opposing action at high doses as it does at lower doses.1 The BHRT women used in the neighborhood of 500mcg per day to restore hormone action, and this dose in humans is not expected to cause toxicity.1
In rats high doses suppress androgens and can cause testicular necrosis.2 Low doses of a cobalt compound has shown to improve the protein to fat ratio without affecting testosterone levels.3
1. .addisons-network.co.uk/hyperexcretion2.pdf
2. ://vet.sagepub.com/content/22/6/610.full.pdf
3. US patent 4997828
RSS Filed under: Chemistry, Diet & Nutrition, General
Click to expand...

Testicular necrosis ... basically your nuts die and fall off. Note to self: do not take cobalt. Ever.
 
Lol don't want that.
It is an essential mineral responsible for the formation of b12 in the body, among other things.
 
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