Realistic expectations?

AllTheGainz

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For a 12 PH week cycle with proper diet and training and a solid pct, what kind of gains could one be looking at? I was thinking somewhere in the 15 lbs range. Is that abnormal?
 

InItForGainz

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Before answering that we're gunna need to know some stuff,
Current stats?
Training experience?
Training type?
Compounds you're looking at running?
 

AllTheGainz

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Stats:

-21 and 5'11
-165lbs (used to be 195 but I've been out of the gym for a year and a half due to a rotator cuff injury.)
-I've ran 3PH cycles in the past, learned a lot from each.
-Diet is now on point, but will need further adjusting when I start to lift.
-I've been lifting since I was 15, previous injuries have kept me from lifting recently but I can finally get back in the gym.

I plan on doing a hybrid 5x5 and bodybuilding type training plan have to create it tho.

Planned on running Rad 140 for 4 weeks as a kickstart then going into my main cycle.

DMZ and MSten are combine in one pill which states not to run it longer then 4 weeks (thoughts?)

RAD 140 10mg/[email protected] 15/15/15/15
DMZ. 10mg/cap/60cap 2/2/3/3
MSten 10mg/cap/60cap. 2/2/3/3
Nor-Andro 70mg/cap/60 2/2/2/2/4/4/4/4
Epi-Andro 70mg/cap/60. 2/2/2/2/4/4/4/4

RD/RD/RD/RD/CY/CY/CY/CY/CY/CY/CY/CY/PCT

PCT
Nol 20mg/[email protected] 20/20/10/10
Aromasin 15mg/[email protected] 12.5mg eod
Clomid 50mg/[email protected] 50/50/25/25/25/12.5

I know I'm small, but hopefully with being out so long I'll have the noob gains effect going on which will be amplified by the stack.

I'll be bulking the entire time as well, shooting for a pound a week caloric surplus.
 

AllTheGainz

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Stupid cycle. ^
Why's that?

DMZ for the mass, epi to keep my gains dry and hard and the nor I planned on using as a base. Msten is part of the DMZ so I can't cut that out. Might change the nor out for 4 andro for a stronger base.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Why's that?
You wont make it past 4 weeks guaranteed. You didn't research your compounds at all. Lethargy on RAD will be gross, Msten alone is harsh same with DMZ. You're going to have 3 compounds that people can't tolerate past 4 weeks with no real test base, you're going to be 3-4 weeks deep wanting to drop cycle and have no motivation. No real test base, sure epi-andro acts like a base but you have nothing that actually converts to test so when it comes time for PCT you'll feel like garbage and have an extremely rough PCT. No test for 12 weeks is never smart.. just because you're using exogenous androgens doesnt mean they can fulfill the role of test in the body.. 12 weeks of not having something (Testosterone) that your body needs to survive is just dumb. Very poor planning, wasted money on radarine it'll do absolutely nothing in that cycle besides make you feel lethargic and want to blow your brains out in 4 weeks.

DMZ
Msten
Epi-andro
4-andro

An actual intelligent cycle that covers every base. You're just putting compounds together not looking at what they do in the body or how they effect the body, you have tons on anecdotes on here read and learn. Save RAD and nor-andro for a different cycle. Use the cycle i gave you, if not then i guarantee you by 4 week 4 you'll feel like garbage want to drop cycle have poor motivation/gains and an extremely hard PCT due to Lethargy and having had no test for 12 weeks.
 

AllTheGainz

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Well the rad was iffy, 4 week kickstart was EXTREMLY iffy in my opinion but I thought I would include it to get options and advice. I haven't stacked many compounds before, so I figured I was missing a lot which again is why I asked. I have a hella lot to learn lol but I knew the rad would be rough, I thought the DMZ and Epi would help counteract that as it stated, I was wrong. So I'll have to find a good test base then, good thing I haven't spent any money yet.

You live and learn tho, can't plan amazing cycles the first or second time, always stuff you miss.

If we're speaking of test bases, would trest work well? I haven't looked much into it much but there's quite a few people that vouch for it. This is why I never buy stuff till I'm positive it's a good cycle. Thought it was a decent cycle, in terms of compounds yes but dosage and length nope lol.
 
rascal14

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Trest would be just fine. You'd need a strong AI on hand though. The DMZ dose is a little low, but stacked with Msten it may not matter.

You'd be much happier with Trest, Msten and Dmz I guarantee it. It'd be way cheaper as well.
 

AllTheGainz

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Trest would be just fine. You'd need a strong AI on hand though. The DMZ dose is a little low, but stacked with Msten it may not matter.

You'd be much happier with Trest, Msten and Dmz I guarantee it. It'd be way cheaper as well.
Trest is a bit of an issue getting tho possible if I looked around. Only reason I was planning on running the stack I was is because my friend can't lift anymore and he has a bunch of prohormone stuff laying around he wanted to get rid of for $20 a bottle so I figured it would be a good deal. Gonna shorten it to 4 weeks and just do more smaller cycles, probably throwing trest in for a cycle as well. Just have a lot of PHs available for really cheep so I figured I'd try to use them while they were available.

So if im only running a 4 week cycle then I can increase the DMZ dose and shorten the PCT correct? Want to maximize gains but don't want to hurt myself in the process.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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Trest is a bit of an issue getting tho possible if I looked around. Only reason I was planning on running the stack I was is because my friend can't lift anymore and he has a bunch of prohormone stuff laying around he wanted to get rid of for $20 a bottle so I figured it would be a good deal. Gonna shorten it to 4 weeks and just do more smaller cycles, probably throwing trest in for a cycle as well. Just have a lot of PHs available for really cheep so I figured I'd try to use them while they were available.

So if im only running a 4 week cycle then I can increase the DMZ dose and shorten the PCT correct? Want to maximize gains but don't want to hurt myself in the process.
The longer you have the muscle the more mature it becomes and the easier it is to keep gains made on cycle, 4 week cycles are meh the possibillity of keeping quality gains are much lower, id do 6 weeks DMZ, Msten, and a test base, that should be nice and keep gains.
 

YoungBodyBuil

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also dont shorten PCT.. i dont understand why everyone wants to short cut PCT makes no sense to me.. it's literally saving your dick and balls, and possibly your relationship. No woman wants a dude who's half flaccid.
 

AllTheGainz

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also dont shorten PCT.. i dont understand why everyone wants to short cut PCT makes no sense to me.. it's literally saving your dick and balls, and possibly your relationship. No woman wants a dude who's half flaccid.
A 6 week pct isn't necessary for a 6 week cycle is it? Surely a 4 week pct would work just as well if not better?
 

YoungBodyBuil

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A 6 week pct isn't necessary for a 6 week cycle is it? Surely a 4 week pct would work just as well if not better?
Meh i tend to go over-cautious on PCT but i like my nuts so i digress. Do you exemestane for PCT please say yes.
 

AllTheGainz

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Meh i tend to go over-cautious on PCT but i like my nuts so i digress. Do you exemestane for PCT please say yes.
I have some, planned on buying more to just have on hand. That and clomid are two things I'll always have with me
 

NewAgeMayan

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Anything between 3-500mg/d of epiandro Id think hmmm, yeah, maybe...but anything less than 300mg/d Id think why bother.

If youre thinking of going the trest route for a base, TD and 2 apps per day is gold.
 

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