Real Stress, Anxiety and Depression relief:

[myuniverse1]

What's up guys, so as difficult as this is to announce, I have been dealing with major bouts of anxiety and depression over the course of most my life, I'd say since about age 14. I am now 32 years old, and have tried to manage it myself with no drugs, just normal everyday activities, but it has occurred to me more than ever that this simply isn't doing it. I understand life will always be difficult, but I can no longer sit up at night terrorized by my thoughts of past failure, coupled with lack of confidence for the future. I am seeing my doctor today, to try and talk some things out, and figure out a good course of action. I am tired of being the highest of highs, and then feeling like the lowest of lows, I am tired of losing my train of thought, and losing all focus. I need to be more centered, more stable, and I am unsure how to do this. I don't want to get put on anti-depressents because I am worried about side effects, or weird reactions, or becoming dependent on them, but I need something to help. I know Ashwagandha Extract can help relieve some minor stresses, but what else could possibly help that I could run by my doc? Thanks everyone for reading this novel LOL.

 

[u_e_s_i]

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles man, i have similar ones . I hope things get better

 

[smoothassilk]

Although you didn't state if you took anything stimulating, what helps a lot of people in the roller coaster limbo of mood swings is letting go of stimulants, at least for a few weeks or so.

Morning walks/jogs outdoors. Short term for the infamous "runners high" and release of endorphins, long term for the release of neurotrophic or growth factors, which is lower in depressive disorders from what I know.

In terms of supplementation. Through both anecdotal experience taking them and data evidence, things that might help are:

1. Rhodiola Rosea. Favorite adaptogen slightly ahead of Ashwagandha. Anecdotally for me, this was a more stimulating version of Ashwagandha. Heightened sense of alertness and slight mood elevation. Studies have shown that people who've taken rhodiola compared to the placebo group have shown less symptoms of depression and anxiety. Recent studies have even shown it working faster than many antidepressants. Promising supplement indeed.

2.) Saffron. Not too experienced with it but have friends who promise by it. Studies have shown it to be effective with an effect on serotonin but not exactly sure of the mechanism behind it. Too high of doses can cause problems though.

3.) Passionflower. Good choice in term of safety and pretty effective. As an insomniac it helps me sleep and relax at night consistently which helps with mood regulation. Studies have shown that it increases gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) in the brain. (GABA lowers the activity of certain brain cells, making you feel more relaxed.) Moreover, passionflower contains beta alkaloids, which are monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors. MAOs are enzymes that break down several neurotransmitters, including serotonin (a neurotransmitter associated with feelings of happiness).

In terms of stronger stuff. If you have discipline in terms of supplementation and strict cycling, phenibut is a pretty great choice as long as it's taken once or twice a week. I'd go with Rhodiola in the day and passionflower at night though. As someone who thought these were hippy supplements a few years back, you'd be surprised how potent these can be over time. Good luck.

 

[myuniverse1]

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles man, i have similar ones . I hope things get better

Thanks and same to you. Mental health is such a tricky thing, one moment you can feel on top of the world, and next you feel like a feather could crush you to the ground. Weird analogy I know LOL. Things will get better, this I know, because I will not allow to it take over my life forever. Sending my best to you!

 

[myuniverse1]

Although you didn't state if you took anything stimulating, what helps a lot of people in the roller coaster limbo of mood swings is letting go of stimulants, at least for a few weeks or so.

Morning walks/jogs outdoors. Short term for the infamous "runners high" and release of endorphins, long term for the release of neurotrophic or growth factors, which is lower in depressive disorders from what I know.

In terms of supplementation. Through both anecdotal experience taking them and data evidence, things that might help are:

1. Rhodiola Rosea. Favorite adaptogen slightly ahead of Ashwagandha. Anecdotally for me, this was a more stimulating version of Ashwagandha. Heightened sense of alertness and slight mood elevation. Studies have shown that people who've taken rhodiola compared to the placebo group have shown less symptoms of depression and anxiety. Recent studies have even shown it working faster than many antidepressants. Promising supplement indeed.

2.) Saffron. Not too experienced with it but have friends who promise by it. Studies have shown it to be effective with an effect on serotonin but not exactly sure of the mechanism behind it. Too high of doses can cause problems though.

3.) Passionflower. Good choice in term of safety and pretty effective. As an insomniac it helps me sleep and relax at night consistently which helps with mood regulation. Studies have shown that it increases gamma aminobutyric acid (GABA) in the brain. (GABA lowers the activity of certain brain cells, making you feel more relaxed.) Moreover, passionflower contains beta alkaloids, which are monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors. MAOs are enzymes that break down several neurotransmitters, including serotonin (a neurotransmitter associated with feelings of happiness).

In terms of stronger stuff. If you have discipline in terms of supplementation and strict cycling, phenibut is a pretty great choice as long as it's taken once or twice a week. I'd go with Rhodiola in the day and passionflower at night though. As someone who thought these were hippy supplements a few years back, you'd be surprised how potent these can be over time. Good luck.

Thanks for this! I will definitely look into this, and I appreciate the knowledge!

 

[HIT4ME]

This is a VERY difficult thing to deal with. There are other threads on here where people look for a supplement to cure anxiety; and they often go round and round in circles I am sorry to say. Like you said, life is difficult at times - and our emotions are a complex response to our thoughts, our perspective, our environmental input.

Tell us - how is your diet? When do you eat during the day? How is your sleep? What other drugs and/or supplements are you using regularly? What is your caffeine or stimulant intake like? Do you have any other medical issues, even something minor, like asthma? What have you already tried, if anything, for your anxiety?

Your description of "highest of highs" and "Lowest of lows" obviously sounds like a serious issue; which may require some medication to correct. I think a lot of people are afraid to take drugs because we don't want to be "druggies" and all that we believe goes with that - and mental health is viewed differently. But, most people view drugs as bad because they have negative impact and because they make us less effective and productive or have an impact on our health. If a drug makes you healthier, more effective and productive - you shouldn't fear it.

 

[HIT4ME]

Oh yeah - and what about nicotine consumption?

 

[myuniverse1]

Oh yeah - and what about nicotine consumption?

Thanks for the reply. Since I exercise regularly I try to keep my diet solid. I eat homemade blueberry oatmeal every morning with an added scoop of protein powder, and will sometimes add peanut butter for some fats. I snack healthy throughout the day, (greek yogurt, string cheese, protein bars/shakes, mixed nuts, fresh fruit (apples, bananas), and try to make sure I have a healthy lunch & dinner consisting of lean meats, rice or grains, and some veggies.
My sleep a lot of times sucks. I get about 6 to 6 1/2 hours of sleep but it is usually disrupted sleep (either can't fall asleep right away,or if I wake up in middle of night, I have a hard time falling back asleep). I am not on any other drugs, the only supplements I take currently are a Multivitamin , Fish Oil, Protein Powder, Preworkout, and occasionally a test booster (Viron from BLR currently). My caffeine content is about 300-500mg daily, other stimulants would be DMHA or Eria Jarensis that is in my Preworkout. I do not have any underlying medical issues, no asthma, or anything.
I have not tried anything medically for my anxiety, I do write often, exercise and try to be as social as possible to escape from my mind eating away at me, (which happens at times when I am alone). Also, I do not consume nicotine.
I never wanted to rely on something to make me feel good or make me feel normal, but honestly if it helps me in the long run, it will help others as well, because I am tired of my anxiety,depression, or lack of confidence destroying some of the best things life has to offer. Thanks.

 

[HIT4ME]

Thanks for the reply. Since I exercise regularly I try to keep my diet solid. I eat homemade blueberry oatmeal every morning with an added scoop of protein powder, and will sometimes add peanut butter for some fats. I snack healthy throughout the day, (greek yogurt, string cheese, protein bars/shakes, mixed nuts, fresh fruit (apples, bananas), and try to make sure I have a healthy lunch & dinner consisting of lean meats, rice or grains, and some veggies.
My sleep a lot of times sucks. I get about 6 to 6 1/2 hours of sleep but it is usually disrupted sleep (either can't fall asleep right away,or if I wake up in middle of night, I have a hard time falling back asleep). I am not on any other drugs, the only supplements I take currently are a Multivitamin , Fish Oil, Protein Powder, Preworkout, and occasionally a test booster (Viron from BLR currently), if only to help keep things normal. My caffeine content is about 300-500mg daily, other stimulants would be DMHA or Eria Jarensis that is in my Preworkout. I do not have any underlying medical issues, no asthma, or anything.
I have not tried anything medically for my anxiety, I do write often, exercise and try to be as social as possible to escape from my mind eating away at me, (which happens at times when I am alone). Also, I do not consume nicotine.
I never wanted to rely on something to make me feel good or make me feel normal, but honestly if it helps me in the long run, it will help others as well, because I am tired of my anxiety,depression, or lack of confidence destroying some of the best things life has to offer. Thanks.

Thank you for the response and actually taking the time to answer!

So, you seem to have a healthy eating pattern, which is good. One thing I've been thinking about is how our internal clock effects things, and how our sleep and eating patterns don't always match up. A lot of us go on intermitting fasting diets or skip breakfast, and it sounds like you actually eat a good breakfast and keep things healthy at night. Good job there.

It also sounds like you have obsessive thoughts, and I tried to find it, but I found a google scholar article that described the role of acetylcholine on mice with obsessive behaviors. It turned out that injecting Ach into their brains actually reduced these behaviors. Ach is an often overlooked neurotransmitter when it comes to anxiety/depression. We always focus on dopamine/seratonin...but Adenosine and Ach get passed over.

My first recommendation is to start taking ZMA before bed. Many of us are magnesium deficient and what I have found is that ZMA doesn't help me GET to sleep - but it helps me STAY asleep once I am there. I wake up during the night much less while I take it. It's cheap, has health benefits, and seems to help a lot of people I know sleep better - even if it won't improve your body composition or increase testosterone, etc.

Also, have you ever tried taking maybe a gram to 1.5 grams of agmatine? does that help at all? It may be worth a shot.

And along the lines of acetylcholine - maybe taking something like Huperzine A in the morning will have an effect.

You are taking a good dose of caffeine. Caffeine binds to adenosine sites and prevents adenosine uptake. One of the effects of adenosine is that it binds to Ach sites, like caffeine binds to adenosine sites, and antagonises them - blocking the uptake of Ach. Without Ach binding and doing its job at the sites, you may as well have low Ach. Huperzine is kind of a brute force approach - it will prevent the Ach breakdown and hopefully allow it to survive long enough to bind to whatever receptors are no longer bound by adenosine.

Reducing stims also may help.

Do you ever read or listen to Anthony Robbins? His views/distinctions have helped me a lot in life.

 

[jameschoi]

Lifting and running afterward always gives me that calming feeling.

 

[myuniverse1]

Thank you for the response and actually taking the time to answer!

So, you seem to have a healthy eating pattern, which is good. One thing I've been thinking about is how our internal clock effects things, and how our sleep and eating patterns don't always match up. A lot of us go on intermitting fasting diets or skip breakfast, and it sounds like you actually eat a good breakfast and keep things healthy at night. Good job there.

It also sounds like you have obsessive thoughts, and I tried to find it, but I found a google scholar article that described the role of acetylcholine on mice with obsessive behaviors. It turned out that injecting Ach into their brains actually reduced these behaviors. Ach is an often overlooked neurotransmitter when it comes to anxiety/depression. We always focus on dopamine/seratonin...but Adenosine and Ach get passed over.

My first recommendation is to start taking ZMA before bed. Many of us are magnesium deficient and what I have found is that ZMA doesn't help me GET to sleep - but it helps me STAY asleep once I am there. I wake up during the night much less while I take it. It's cheap, has health benefits, and seems to help a lot of people I know sleep better - even if it won't improve your body composition or increase testosterone, etc.

Also, have you ever tried taking maybe a gram to 1.5 grams of agmatine? does that help at all? It may be worth a shot.

And along the lines of acetylcholine - maybe taking something like Huperzine A in the morning will have an effect.

You are taking a good dose of caffeine. Caffeine binds to adenosine sites and prevents adenosine uptake. One of the effects of adenosine is that it binds to Ach sites, like caffeine binds to adenosine sites, and antagonises them - blocking the uptake of Ach. Without Ach binding and doing its job at the sites, you may as well have low Ach. Huperzine is kind of a brute force approach - it will prevent the Ach breakdown and hopefully allow it to survive long enough to bind to whatever receptors are no longer bound by adenosine.

Reducing stims also may help.

Do you ever read or listen to Anthony Robbins? His views/distinctions have helped me a lot in life.

I think you were spot on with the obsessive thoughts, mainly obsessive over past failures or how I can't seem to do things right, etc. I have not tried ZMA or anything like that, but may look into it, because as we all know a good night sleep is key to starting the day off right and in a good mindset. I have never taken Agmatine standalone, only in my Preworkout.
I do need to taper back the Caffeine and try and keep it in the 300-400mg range, getting to 600mg is kind of a lot IMO and probably does not help when it comes to anxiety and stress. I have not really listened to Anthony Robbins much but I do know of him. I will definitely give him a listen! Thanks again!

 

[HIT4ME]

I think you were spot on with the obsessive thoughts, mainly obsessive over past failures or how I can't seem to do things right, etc. I have not tried ZMA or anything like that, but may look into it, because as we all know a good night sleep is key to starting the day off right and in a good mindset. I have never taken Agmatine standalone, only in my Preworkout.
I do need to taper back the Caffeine and try and keep it in the 300-400mg range, getting to 600mg is kind of a lot IMO and probably does not help when it comes to anxiety and stress. I have not really listened to Anthony Robbins much but I do know of him. I will definitely give him a listen! Thanks again!

Yeah - I have a high caffeine tolerance. I'm sure I have days where I am over a gram, so I can't judge - but if you are waking up at night and having anxiety, it may be part of the issue and is simple enough to eliminate. Huperzine A, again, may help bring acetylcholine levels back which may help with the obsessive thoughts.

Another thing to keep in mind - everyone who does ANYTHING, fails. Failure is NOT bad. Failure is part of a process. It is a chance to learn and try a new way. Sometimes, we just don't realize that there is a strategy we need and don't have.

Most people spend 80% of their time focused on a problem, but successful people spend 80% of their time focused on a solution.

Everything I have ever fixed, created, achieved - had LOTS and LOTS of failures before it. The more I embrace those failures, the more I learn. Sometimes your adversary is actually your ally.

Sorry if it seems like I am cheer leading, I am usually the jerk on here who calls it like it is - but it is better to try and fail than to become such a prisoner to the IDEA of failure and mistakes that you never achieve anything.

 

[myuniverse1]

Yeah - I have a high caffeine tolerance. I'm sure I have days where I am over a gram, so I can't judge - but if you are waking up at night and having anxiety, it may be part of the issue and is simple enough to eliminate. Huperzine A, again, may help bring acetylcholine levels back which may help with the obsessive thoughts.

Another thing to keep in mind - everyone who does ANYTHING, fails. Failure is NOT bad. Failure is part of a process. It is a chance to learn and try a new way. Sometimes, we just don't realize that there is a strategy we need and don't have.

Most people spend 80% of their time focused on a problem, but successful people spend 80% of their time focused on a solution.

Everything I have ever fixed, created, achieved - had LOTS and LOTS of failures before it. The more I embrace those failures, the more I learn. Sometimes your adversary is actually your ally.

Sorry if it seems like I am cheer leading, I am usually the jerk on here who calls it like it is - but it is better to try and fail than to become such a prisoner to the IDEA of failure and mistakes that you never achieve anything.

Bro you are so right. These quotes in particular hit me hard! (In a good way)
"Most people spend 80% of their time focused on a problem, but successful people spend 80% of their time focused on a solution." &

"Everything I have ever fixed, created, achieved - had LOTS and LOTS of failures before it. The more I embrace those failures, the more I learn. Sometimes your adversary is actually your ally."
Thank you very much, those words really put some good thoughts into my mind and they are so damn true. Again I appreciate everyone's input on this matter.

 

[niklasericson]

What's up guys, so as difficult as this is to announce, I have been dealing with major bouts of anxiety and depression over the course of most my life, I'd say since about age 14. I am now 32 years old, and have tried to manage it myself with no drugs, just normal everyday activities, but it has occurred to me more than ever that this simply isn't doing it. I understand life will always be difficult, but I can no longer sit up at night terrorized by my thoughts of past failure, coupled with lack of confidence for the future. I am seeing my doctor today, to try and talk some things out, and figure out a good course of action. I am tired of being the highest of highs, and then feeling like the lowest of lows, I am tired of losing my train of thought, and losing all focus. I need to be more centered, more stable, and I am unsure how to do this. I don't want to get put on anti-depressents because I am worried about side effects, or weird reactions, or becoming dependent on them, but I need something to help. I know Ashwagandha Extract can help relieve some minor stresses, but what else could possibly help that I could run by my doc? Thanks everyone for reading this novel LOL.

I know what u talking about and the best thing u can do is to workout hard in the gym and/or do cardio and here are some supplements you can try:
L theanine
Glycine
Taurine
5 htp
Relora

If this doesn't work go to your doc and get some Baclofen,it works like Phenibut but it's much safer and you can take it every day.
If you feel stress with fast heart rate ask for a Betablocker,one (10-20mg) pill in the morning is probably all you need to calm down during that day.
I have been there and it there is always a way out.

 

[HIT4ME]

Bro you are so right. These quotes in particular hit me hard! (In a good way)
"Most people spend 80% of their time focused on a problem, but successful people spend 80% of their time focused on a solution." &

"Everything I have ever fixed, created, achieved - had LOTS and LOTS of failures before it. The more I embrace those failures, the more I learn. Sometimes your adversary is actually your ally."
Thank you very much, those words really put some good thoughts into my mind and they are so damn true. Again I appreciate everyone's input on this matter.

Really glad if I can help. Here are somethings to think about when you start having obsessive thoughts:

1. What questions are you asking yourself that leads you to these thoughts? -We tend to not realize but our brain often tries to answer a question and we are not always asking "good" questions. For instance, you may be asking yourself, "How could I have been so stupid to make that mistake?!" And then you start thinking of all the answers...real or not....and bang, you prove you are stupid. But what if you asked yourself, instead, "What did I learn from that mistake?" or "What was right about the approach I took? What can I be proud of?" At the very least, if you ruminate on those questions you are bound to be coming up with "proof" in your head that will make you feel much better.


2. Is it your voice in your head? Or someone else's? Often we have the voice of a parent, friend, mentor, etc. in our head. Often times it is someone who meant well and scolded us or placed a belief in our head, and we hear them over and over again every time a situation comes up that resembles the original scolding. The thing is - sometimes you need to realize that isn't YOUR voice in your head. It is YOU playing a record of someone else's voice. And just because they meant well or you believed it at one point, doesn't mean you need to continue believing it or that they were even ever really right. I have parental voices in my head all the time that I now realize I don't have to listen to. My parents are human and had their own self-doubt. Without realizing it, they imprinted some of that self-doubt into my head and I choose to embrace it or let it go. Learn from it and let it go.

3. What is really important? Being true or right? Or moving toward what you want in life? Beliefs are a powerful thing - and we like to believe that what we believe is "true" or "right" - but in reality, that doesn't matter at all. What matters is, "Does this belief move me toward or away from what I want?"

Sometimes we have true beliefs that if we hold onto them, they make our life worse. And sometimes we have false beliefs that, if we hold onto them, they make our lives better. Choose beliefs that move you toward where you want to go and don't worry about being right or wrong.

A simple example of this is (I'm in sales) when I talk to someone who is new to cold calling and I ask about their beliefs I often pose the scenario that:

If you believe that every time you pick up the phone you are going to reach someone in a cold, dark room and this person will not want to hear from you, be upset you called them, and they are going to be cruel and put you down and bash you over the phone and hang up and you aren't going to make any money at all from it - how many times will you pick up the phone today?

Now, if I had a magic wand and waived it, and I told you that for one day only - today - EVERY SINGLE TIME you make a call the person on the other end of the phone will be sitting in a bright room with lots of sunlight and a smile on their face, and they will be THRILLED to hear about you and need what you have to offer so badly that they will want to meet you right away! And you will actually become friends AND make a big sale - EVERYTIME you pick up the phone. How many calls will you make today?

Is either belief true or false? Is either right or wrong? Do you think that these two beliefs will have a big impact on the quality of your life and your success?