Quick opinion needed

[JesseC]

Hey everyone my first post here,

I have run a test and deca cycle previously with an awful outcome that nearly ended my marriage. Mood, over sexualness, depression etc, and I rowed never to do it again.

so, I am going down the oral avenue, I’ve recently done an Anavar only cycle, which was interesting, no real mass or size increase to a degree, but strength felt good and I 100% got leaner with a small mass increase and so a nice little body composition increase.

Now looking at the following cycle to run. I know running test with this cycle would be better, but it is simply not an option due to the above and I respect that.

Just wanting a heads up really, read lots on evil cycles and watched endless YouTube videos, both on the zero returns this cycle will give after water retention losses, but tbh I have watched videos that claim you do make “gains” just less of them.

DBOL 50mg tabs x 50
Week 1 0.5 x 7 25mg
Week 2 1 x 7 50mg
Week 3 1 x 7 50mg
Week 4 1 x 7 50mg
Week 5 1 x 7 50mg
Week 6 1 x 7 50mg
Week 7 1 x 7 50mg
Week 8 0.5 x 7 25mg

CLOMID
150ml = 3 days
100ml = 7 days
100ml = 7 days
50ml = 7 days

Provion
25ml ED over course of PCT

Opinions welcome thanks

 

[Noncompetitive]

TBH I figure it was the deca that caused all of that. But if you can't take test then you can't take test I guess. Just beware that dbol can cause anger and irritability as well.

 

[JesseC]

TBH I figure it was the deca that caused all of that. But if you can't take test then you can't take test I guess. Just beware that dbol can cause anger and irritability as well.

It could have been, more likely to have been. But test was the blame with again I respect. Just making sure to maximize mass gain my PCT is good enough running Provion instead of nolvadex

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

you know the cause of what you have lost bro .. and dont know why you wanna do it all over.

dbol is no joke .. look into something lighter .. halo, epistane, xtren kind of stuff.

 

[JesseC]

you know the cause of what you have lost bro .. and dont know why you wanna do it all over.

dbol is no joke .. look into something lighter .. halo, epistane, xtren kind of stuff.

Hey man thanks for the straight up response, maybe I will run 25mg for 2 weeks and see what’s what.

How’s the PCT look after running D only cycle?

 

[GQdaLEGEND]

Hey man thanks for the straight up response, maybe I will run 25mg for 2 weeks and see what’s what.

How’s the PCT look after running D only cycle?

yea and also short cycles are the best .. someone else who has maybe ran dbol can chime in on the length but 8 weeks seems alot .. gonna be dealign with alot of water weight.

as for PCT - cant tell on clomid dosages .. you didnt state mg/ml you are getting

typical ive seen and have done in the past .. start with 60mg and taper down like you have noted.

60mg 1st 3 days then 40mg for complete of 2 weeks and 20mg

throw in your favorite test booster with clomid .. i think proviorn is mainly for hair loss right ?

 

[SkRaw85]

Never ran a test only cycle before? Started with test and deca right out of the gate? Some people psychologically cannot manage higher testosterone levels as they are already predisposed to rage. Hormones amplify this.

 

[JesseC]

yea and also short cycles are the best .. someone else who has maybe ran dbol can chime in on the length but 8 weeks seems alot .. gonna be dealign with alot of water weight.

as for PCT - cant tell on clomid dosages .. you didnt state mg/ml you are getting

typical ive seen and have done in the past .. start with 60mg and taper down like you have noted.

60mg 1st 3 days then 40mg for complete of 2 weeks and 20mg

throw in your favorite test booster with clomid .. i think proviorn is mainly for hair loss right ?

I’m luckily to have everyday access to an InBody machine to monitor my water levels. Expecting a huge “lean” mass gain but for a big percentage to be water, hoping after the cycle ends and PCT, I have managed to put on something come the end.
Was looking at running 150mg for first 3 days, then 100mg per day for 2 weeks then down to 50mg a day for week 3 and 25mg week 4.

What test booster would you recommend? nolvadex??

 

[JesseC]

Never ran a test only cycle before? Started with test and deca right out of the gate? Some people psychologically cannot manage higher testosterone levels as they are already predisposed to rage. Hormones amplify this.

Was a younger version of myself now and went straight in on the big boy ****, and ruined a few things. Most noticeably the effects of test or deca. But been told never running injectables again, and love my wife to go against her wishes.

Obviously if my behaviour was to change on dbol I will come off. Tbh something I didn’t post was that I did run anadrol only once but got literally nothing from it.

 

[SkRaw85]

Probably the wisest, and most respectable decision. Just beware, orals also elicit the same response psychologically as injectables. Rage will be enhanced.

 

[JesseC]

Probably the wisest, and most respectable decision. Just beware, orals also elicit the same response psychologically as injectables. Rage will be enhanced.

Yeah I’ve read through hundreds of feeds on the subject. More then aware a test only
Cycle would be better, and Test and dbol cycle would be top trumps, but l can’t do it to her.

More so after PCT guidance to help at best keep any size after my test levels crash

 

[Ironpirate]

I don't think that proviron should be a part of pct.

 

[JesseC]

I don't think that proviron should be a part of pct.

Ok thank you, would it be better run on cycle?

I’ve just added 30 x 20mg nolvadex to my order along with clomid, and 50mg dbol. I’ve already got Proviron at home along side another bottle of clomid, so hopefully should be able to run the Provirion along side the dbol to reduce potential over water retention and as it has mild anti estrogen properties it might help combat elevated estrogen on cycle right?

 

[Ironpirate]

Ok thank you, would it be better run on cycle?

I’ve just added 30 x 20mg nolvadex to my order along with clomid, and 50mg dbol. I’ve already got Proviron at home along side another bottle of clomid, so hopefully should be able to run the Provirion along side the dbol to reduce potential over water retention and as it has mild anti estrogen properties it might help combat elevated estrogen on cycle right?

Yes the proviron will pair nicely with the dbol but it is a steroid and even though it is mild it has no place in a proper pct.

 

[JesseC]

Yes the proviron will pair nicely with the dbol but it is a steroid and even though it is mild it has no place in a proper pct.

Thanks so much, will run the provirion with the dbol at low doseage. And have today paid for my PCT with the inclusion of novladex.

Thanks everyone, my first post on here.

Let’s see what I can do

 

[Hyde]

Switch week 8 Dbol dose with week 2. Never taper your total androgens down, only titrate up if you wish to maintain or increase gains.

Put the Proviron in the cycle, towards the latter part if you don’t have enough for every day. It is going to make you extra sexual, FYI. Be ready for it.

Clomid dose is unnecessarily high. 50mg for a month or so will probably do fine. You can stack Tamoxifen with it if you want but usually one or the other will suffice. Tamoxifen will help prevent rebound gyno.

50mg could be a lot of estrogen and bloat. I hope you have an AI on hand. Watch your blood pressure and avoid excess sodium - drink lots of water.

 

[SkRaw85]

Switch week 8 Dbol dose with week 2. Never taper your total androgens down, only titrate up if you wish to maintain or increase gains.

Put the Proviron in the cycle, towards the latter part if you don’t have enough for every day. It is going to make you extra sexual, FYI. Be ready for it.

Clomid dose is unnecessarily high. 50mg for a month or so will probably do fine. You can stack Tamoxifen with it if you want but usually one or the other will suffice. Tamoxifen will help prevent rebound gyno.

50mg could be a lot of estrogen and bloat. I hope you have an AI on hand. Watch your blood pressure and avoid excess sodium - drink lots of water.

This! One can’t stress enough the importance of progressive dosing in a cycle. I’ve been guilty of coming out of the gate in sixth gear, it’s great and all, to a point where it’s not. Steady progression wins every time.

 

[Hyde]

This! One can’t stress enough the importance of progressive dosing in a cycle. I’ve been guilty of coming out of the gate in sixth gear, it’s great and all, to a point where it’s not. Steady progression wins every time.

It’s great if you only intend to blast for 4-6 weeks, basically. Because after that you feel like crap and there’s really nowhere you can go. Heartburn, extreme lethargy, maxed BP, no appetite, unrealistic calorie demands, poor sleep. All of that makes it hard to do any more growing, or even sustain the blast.

 

[ugsavage]

Get some 4 Andro to run alongside your Dbol. It will keep your mood balanced and lethargy at bay. It should also keep basic function of your htpa, making your PCT go much smoother.

300 to 500 mgs of 4 Andro will do the trick. Can get a little pricey when running for 8 weeks but guaranteed you will have a better cycle. And like Hyde mentioned six weeks would honestly be better. The extra two weeks won't give you any more gains just side effects. Also like he mentioned blood pressure spikes are significant on Dbol. Managing the estrogen increase will significantly help keep blood pressure down, but most using something like Arimidex was trash your lipids so keep your diet in check and don't skip on cardio

Good luck OP! Welcome to AM

 

[KvanH]

Get some 4 Andro to run alongside your Dbol. It will keep your mood balanced and lethargy at bay. It should also keep basic function of your htpa, making your PCT go much smoother.

300 to 500 mgs of 4 Andro will do the trick. Can get a little pricey when running for 8 weeks but guaranteed you will have a better cycle. And like Hyde mentioned six weeks would honestly be better. The extra two weeks won't give you any more gains just side effects. Also like he mentioned blood pressure spikes are significant on Dbol. Managing the estrogen increase will significantly help keep blood pressure down, but most using something like Arimidex was trash your lipids so keep your diet in check and don't skip on cardio

Good luck OP! Welcome to AM

Excuse me for being blunt, but that bolded part makes zero sense. Adding another exogenous androgen will not help to maintain hpta function and will not make pct any smoother. It does the opposite. Altough Dbol is suppressive enough itself, that adding 4-Andro probably won't make things any worse in practice on that regard.

About the 4-Andro helping with mood and lethargy; that could be the case, since it will add some test, but it will also add to the estrogen 'burden', and many times it's actually the low estrogen inducing the lethargy, which would not be the case with Dbol. And sometimes the lethargy comes due to the compound being toxic and harsh on the body, which Dbol can be, so adding 4-Andro wouldn't help there either. I'm not necessarily againts adding 4-Andro to Dbol cycle, I just don't agree with your reasoning and personally I don't think I would add the 4-Andro. I have not used Dbol though, let that be known.

Also, I don't want to speak for others, but I don't think Hyde said, that 6 weeks would be better. He was commenting on the dosing scheme as cycle progresses and the "coming out of the gate in sixth gear", saying to only do it like that, when doing only a 4-6 week cycle. If dosing is reasonable and the cycle is not wrecking havoc on the body at that point, I don't expect gains to stop at 6th week with Dbol.

 

[ugsavage]

Excuse me for being blunt, but that bolded part makes zero sense. Adding another exogenous androgen will not help to maintain hpta function and will not make pct any smoother. It does the opposite. Altough Dbol is suppressive enough itself, that adding 4-Andro probably won't make things any worse in practice on that regard.

About the 4-Andro helping with mood and lethargy; that could be the case, since it will add some test, but it will also add to the estrogen 'burden', and many times it's actually the low estrogen inducing the lethargy, which would not be the case with Dbol. And sometimes the lethargy comes due to the compound being toxic and harsh on the body, which Dbol can be, so adding 4-Andro wouldn't help there either. I'm not necessarily againts adding 4-Andro to Dbol cycle, I just don't agree with your reasoning and personally I don't think I would add the 4-Andro. I have not used Dbol though, let that be known.

Also, I don't want to speak for others, but I don't think Hyde said, that 6 weeks would be better. He was commenting on the dosing scheme as cycle progresses and the "coming out of the gate in sixth gear", saying to only do it like that, when doing only a 4-6 week cycle. If dosing is reasonable and the cycle is not wrecking havoc on the body at that point, I don't expect gains to stop at 6th week with Dbol.

You have a point that 4 Andro will only add to the suppression. But either way 6 to 8 weeks of Dbol will leave you with suppression regardless. It's not like I'm saying to add Trest. Any androgen will add to overall suppression. But a low dose of 4 Andro wouldn't be adding much.

And nope Dbol is not very toxic compared to other androgens like Tren and SD. I'm sure people have ran Dbol for months on end with proper cycle support and we're totally fine. And I'm sure Hyde would agree with me for an oral only cycle, gains will stagnate at 6 weeks almost every single time. The last two weeks could really wreck your lipid profile and only add to suppression making PCT and keeping your gains much more difficult

 

[Hyde]

I think size increases tend to largely fall off by the 6 week mark on most orals, if not by 4 weeks, but that’s because a lot of the size is water anyway. The true protein synthesis, the real lean mass gains, are still able to be gained by continuing on. Being able to stay on with bigger training weights or volumes would overall be beneficial for accruing more “keepable” gains, to speak colloquially.

I wouldn’t do something less studied like most of methyl designers past 6 weeks personally, but something like Dbol, Anadrol, Var would be acceptable for me personally IF I was tolerating it well since we have the data showing things are usually fine with fairly extended use (I would never make it though because appetite and acid reflux issues would have probably made me tap out after a month).

4AD, I wouldn’t bother with it unless you are getting a transdermal. It just doesn’t do enough to justify for me, having eaten and used a ton of the stuff.

 

[JesseC]

Hey everyone just wanted to say a massive thanks for all the comments and aid in information or option, it’s been refreshing, as many of the forums again I’ve read prior people doing oral only got a hard time.

10 days in, week 1 at 25mg, week 2 the same. Noticed some small strength increases, but nothing ground breaking, sleep is great and mood is normal, 100% Hornier than normal, but nothing alarming or to much. So far so good I guess,