Quick EQ question...

spirall08

Member
Plan on running a Sus/EQ cycle. Dosing at 600/600 each. 15 weeks.

1. How is EQ on the hair line? Test never gives me problems, but anything more androgenic (or like straight DHT) causes me to shed terribly.
2. How bad is the blood thickening? Do you all recommend some form of blood thinners (i.e. nattokinase, vit k-2, etc) or would just regular ibuprofen daily be enough?

Thanks.
 
spirall08 said:
Plan on running a Sus/EQ cycle. Dosing at 600/600 each. 15 weeks.

1. How is EQ on the hair line? Test never gives me problems, but anything more androgenic (or like straight DHT) causes me to shed terribly.
2. How bad is the blood thickening? Do you all recommend some form of blood thinners (i.e. nattokinase, vit k-2, etc) or would just regular ibuprofen daily be enough?

Thanks.
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I am prone to male pattern baldness. I'm about 6 weeks into EQ at 500mg a week and haven't had any noticeable shedding. Not too sure about blood thickening though. My blood pressure is still in check... but my RBC was quite on the low end before starting cycle. Pre cycle bloods would help you decide if that one will be an issue or not.

Cheers
 
Id highly recommend a cbc with EQ. The natto should help, but how much, and if (when) you will need to donate, is impossible to accurately predict. Bloods will be most reliable guide.
 
drejb said:
I am prone to male pattern baldness. I'm about 6 weeks into EQ at 500mg a week and haven't had any noticeable shedding. Not too sure about blood thickening though. My blood pressure is still in check... but my RBC was quite on the low end before starting cycle. Pre cycle bloods would help you decide if that one will be an issue or not. Cheers
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I actually had blood work about a month and a half ago. RBC = 5.40 (Range 4.7 to 6.1). So right in the middle.


Nac said:
Id highly recommend a cbc with EQ. The natto should help, but how much, and if (when) you will need to donate, is impossible to accurately predict. Bloods will be most reliable guide.
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So iyo, about how long into the cycle should I wait to get the bloods done again? Also, till then, how much natto should I start with?
 
Eq blood thickening is way overrated. Just watch bp and donate blood if needed. I ran EQ up to a gram a week with no issue.
 
Mike Arnold wrote an article siggesting EQ doses should be about 2g a week...
600mg shouldn't cause too much problems if 2g are tolerable.

Monitor blood pressure on a daily basis, preferably two given times a day and measure after sitting down for around five minutes. If these values are within normal ranges you are fine. If they get out of ranges, phlebotomy.

EDIT: Wrote the wrong name....
 
spirall08 said:
I actually had blood work about a month and a half ago. RBC = 5.40 (Range 4.7 to 6.1). So right in the middle.




So iyo, about how long into the cycle should I wait to get the bloods done again? Also, till then, how much natto should I start with?
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If it were me Id do another draw toward the end. Just cos a few forum bros reckon they were fine, wont necessarily mean you will be. Further, monitoring BP is a great idea, but it isnt always going to be a reliable guide to elevated hematocrit; you can be out-of-range with rbc and still have a good/normal BP reading.

There are studies on natto where dosing used is 2000 or 4000fu; both will work, but obviously the latter (split dose, empty stomach) will be ideal.
 
Nac said:
If it were me Id do another draw toward the end. Just cos a few forum bros reckon they were fine, wont necessarily mean you will be. Further, monitoring BP is a great idea, but it isnt always going to be a reliable guide to elevated hematocrit; you can be out-of-range with rbc and still have a good/normal BP reading.

There are studies on natto where dosing used is 2000 or 4000fu; both will work, but obviously the latter (split dose, empty stomach) will be ideal.
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Yeah but the risks of elevated Hematokrit is low if it does not show any effect on blood pressure yet.
 
Nac said:
Lol says who?

Id rather trust bloods than any "assurances" you make thanks.
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Wait wait wait. If I read what you wrote it sounds like you think I said Hematrokrit would not be elevated if blood pressure is not affected. I did not say that.

Also mind telling me what you think the risk of elevated Hematokrit is if blood pressure is not affected?
I'm too curious what you mean.

Also having blood panels is alsways the best option for almost every situation. Its just not practical to get one every two weeks...
 
Lol Im not saying get bloods every two weeks.

Im saying: BP is not a reliable indicator of hematocrit changes.

Blood pressure is not determined solely by hematocrit. Dudes jump on all sorts of compounds on-cycle that will negatively and positively impact BP. How the fuk are you supposed to discern any changes in hematocrit based on normal BP fluctuations, and changes due to compounds (AAS, garlic, meds, whatever)?

And, at what point or measure of BP increase do you go "hmmm yip, ok, Ill donate now"? Its a rhetorical question: any numbers you come up with are entirely arbitrary.

At the end of the day, you use commonsense, and you draw the risk-line where you feel most comfortable.
 
Yes. Blood pressure is absolutely not useful as indicator of Hematokrit levels.

My point is that high Hematokrit levels in itself are not a problem at all. At the point they become a risk blood pressure will be highly effected by them.
That is the point you give blood.

When fiving blood you will get told if Hematokrit is really hgh so if that is not the case you know other things are going on. Now you can try to find out what else it is.
 
Bunshichi said:
Yes. Blood pressure is absolutely not useful as indicator of Hematokrit levels.

My point is that high Hematokrit levels in itself are not a problem at all. At the point they become a risk blood pressure will be highly effected by them.
That is the point you give blood.

When fiving blood you will get told if Hematokrit is really hgh so if that is not the case you know other things are going on. Now you can try to find out what else it is.
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Ok, that makes some sense to me.

But, Im not sure I agree with your claim that "high hematocrit, in the absence of high BP, is not a problem in itself". Its my understanding it potentially still poses a very real health risk, in terms of clotting and atherosclerosis.

And Id still rather get a blood test (cbc, lipids and hormones) than not, and show up to donate and be told there my hematocrit is fine.
 
The point with clotting is that the body responds to bad liquidity with high bloos pressure.

The point with atheriosclerosis is a hundred percent valid but just with the use of PEDs in general you have to take a risk in that department and its just nothing acute.
 
Clots can form regardless of blood pressure. Having high hematocrit/rbc poses a risk factor for clotting regardless of blood pressure.

Now it sounds like youre just trying to downplay risks. Maybe Im overstating them. Whatever, I ultimately dont give a fuk what others choose to do. As I said earlier, their body their risk so they must choose where to draw the line.

I personally wouldnt draw it based solely on blood pressure.
 
Nac said:
There are studies on natto where dosing used is 2000 or 4000fu; both will work, but obviously the latter (split dose, empty stomach) will be ideal.
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Ok all of the natto products Im looking at list dosages mg form. Like 1 pill = 100mg.
So guessing 1-2 pills daily then
 
Nac said:
Clots can form regardless of blood pressure. Having high hematocrit/rbc poses a risk factor for clotting regardless of blood pressure.

Now it sounds like youre just trying to downplay risks. Maybe Im overstating them. Whatever, I ultimately dont give a fuk what others choose to do. As I said earlier, their body their risk so they must choose where to draw the line.

I personally wouldnt draw it based solely on blood pressure.
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Yeah. But thick blood leads to high blood pressure.

I'm not trying to downplay the risks and you are right, everyone has to draw his own lines.

I just think there are points to adress way before even thinking about this because we do have an orienting point here in contrast to other issues.
For example an old study in animals showing raised liver values from bold etc.
 
Bunshichi said:
Yeah. But thick blood leads to high blood pressure.

I'm not trying to downplay the risks and you are right, everyone has to draw his own lines.

I just think there are points to adress way before even thinking about this because we do have an orienting point here in contrast to other issues.
For example an old study in animals showing raised liver values from bold etc.
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Its unclear to me just what your point is.

Are you saying, anyone with high hematocrit (guys on trt, guys cycling, etc) should not bother with donating but should seek to lower blood preasure instead?

Ive never come across a doctor or endo who bases his treatment of high hematocrit/rbc on blood pressure. Never. Blood pressure is too variable. If hematocrit is out of range, you treat it. You dont leave it high until BP increases lol. You dont assume its within range if BP is "normal" and you have reason to believe it could be out of range.
 
spirall08 said:
Ok all of the natto products Im looking at list dosages mg form. Like 1 pill = 100mg.
So guessing 1-2 pills daily then
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100mg usually means 2000fu so yeah. It should still specify fu content on the ingredient panel though.
 
No. Just from the beginning:

Higher than normal Hematokrit at levels that it does not affect blood pressure poses no acute risk.
At some point high rbc will affect blood pressure, thats the point where acute risks occur.
High bloodpressure does not mean high Hematokrit.
Acute dangerously high Hematokrit levels however mean acute dangeroulscly high rbc count wich means a rise in blood pressure.

Now why run a cycle of something that supposedly hightens red blood cell count more than most other steroids if not willing to have hightened rbc at all?

So you are willing to have some and just have a problem with acute risks?
Yeah well high blood pressure will tell you the point to lower blood cell count. If the measure at that point does not show too high levels you know you have another problem causing high blood pressure. If measurement shows too high rbc you lower it by donating blood.
What do you have in mind that gives you better control with a narrow enough cluster of measuring points?


Really dangerously high rbc is a sufficient criterion for high blood pressure. High rbc is not a necessary criterion for high blood pressure.
However detecting a rise in blood pressure is the most practical way to find the point you might have to do something about your high rbc count.

Also Hematokrit is not really a good measuremwnt of high rbc count as well.
 
"You dont assume its within range if BP is "normal" and you have reason to believe it could be out of range."

You just shouldn't take boldenone if you are afraid of high rbc levels per se...
 
No, bloods will tell you the point to lower hematocrit.

How can you not understand that blood pressure alone is too variable, and prone to change due to things other than hematocrit?

Youve still yet to quantify at what point blood pressure indicates high hematocrit.
 
Nac said:
No, bloods will tell you the point to lower hematocrit.

How can you not understand that blood pressure alone is too variable, and prone to change due to things other than hematocrit?

If you base donation purely on blood pressure, youre a fukn dumbass.
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Blood pressure will be high if rbc levels get way too high.
There is nothing keeping your blood pressure low at that point that would not be life threatening in itself.

And again. Tell me the alternative that can control problems in intervals as small or nearly as small.
 
Ill make it real simple for you brah:

If hematocrit or rbc is out of range due to AAS use, consider donating regardless of blood pressure.

Dont wait for blood pressure to increase.
 
Nac said:
Ill make it real simple for you brah:

If hematocrit or rbc is out of range due to AAS use, consider donating regardless of blood pressure.

Dont wait for blood pressure to increase.
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Yeah. I don't have any problem with that.
I'm only saying you can't control that in intervals narrow enough so you need to keep an eye on blood pressure wich will tell you the point it really gets dangerous...

And that I simply would not donate until really necessary anyways because high rbc count has many positive effects.
A study on the effects of epo on bodyfat and lbm even suggests that the effects from aas we look after are partly due to rbc count rise.
 
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