Questions on which anabolics are filtered by the kidneys

[pappaprime]

Just as the title states. Does orals like DBol and Var get filtered or cause kidney damage?
Does injectables like NPP or Deca pose the same theat?

This is assuming BP is kept in check.
Thanks in advance

 

[Jstrong20]

Have heard people say tren but never looked into it. Pretty sure chronic high blood pressure is the main factor for wrecking kidneys which a lot of guys on gear have.

 

[Dblock]

Trenbolone is known as the “kidney killer”… I don’t know the science behind it though

 

[Anabolic66]

Kidneys filter all. They filter your blood and remove waste, turning it into piss.
I guess you might mean which drugs are more toxic overall?

Tren, A-Drol, Halotestin come to mind. All dose dependent of course, but some are more toxic than others...

 

[Smont]

All steroids can effect your kidneys if precautionary measures are not in place. If your bloodwork is being done then you will know exactly whats going on.

The toxicity of a drug has a lot to do with the liver, NOT the kidneys. One steroid being more toxic does not mean more effect on the kidneys, it means more stress on the liver and liver stress from steroids is greatly exagerated in general. Its a real thing, but unless you gpt some pre existing issues then liver stress is of little worry unless yiur running 16 week oral cycles or something stupid.

I do believe tren is directly kidney toxic.

EQ is believed to be kidney toxic because of some animal studies but ive never had it negetively effect bloodwork and i dont know anyone that has experienced the opposite.

In general if these are the worries you have then stick with primarily testosterone and then fill in the gaps with small amounts of stuff like mast, primo and npp/deca. Hgh and insulin if you know what your doing.

Even just test and hgh can get anyone just as much gains as all the other gear can.

Avoid tren, avoid orals espically ones that raise bp, and stay on top of kidney health in general.

Test, mast or primo and some hgh would be my choice if funds allow

 

[Mikereyn513]

Honestly if you're that worried about your kidneys you may just want to avoid ped's all together except maybe a trt dose of test. They all are going to impact kidneys in one way or another especially whe you're on a long term high protein nutrition plan

 

[Stacks1]

Honestly if you're that worried about your kidneys you may just want to avoid ped's all together except maybe a trt dose of test. They all are going to impact kidneys in one way or another especially whe you're on a long term high protein nutrition plan

I always wonder about these bodybuilders who consume some 600+ grams of protein on a daily basis and the toll it must take on their kidneys.

 

[Smont]

I always wonder about these bodybuilders who consume some 600+ grams of protein on a daily basis and the toll it must take on their kidneys.

I dont know of any that go that high but ive seen a lot of meal plans for bodybuilders that they are eating 400ish, espically in contest prep twords the end. I do think that it plays a role but i also think it might not be as bad as some ppl think. Im sure phil heath or ronnie colman can make more use of 400gm pro then the average sedentary guy or girl or senior citizen often used in these types of studies. Am i saying its healthy? No, nothing about a bodybuilding diet is Particularly healthy. Espically once you actually need 4000+ cals and 300gm pro. A low calorie diet is always more healthy.

I do think kai green was a 500-600gm protein guy if i rember corectly

 

[Stacks1]

I dont know of any that go that high but ive seen a lot of meal plans for bodybuilders that they are eating 400ish, espically in contest prep twords the end. I do think that it plays a role but i also think it might not be as bad as some ppl think. Im sure phil heath or ronnie colman can make more use of 400gm pro then the average sedentary guy or girl or senior citizen often used in these types of studies. Am i saying its healthy? No, nothing about a bodybuilding diet is Particularly healthy. Espically once you actually need 4000+ cals and 300gm pro. A low calorie diet is always more healthy.

I do think kai green was a 500-600gm protein guy if i rember corectly

I'm pretty sure Ronnie Coleman was in the 500 - 600 gram per day range too. When you think about it, that might "only" be 2 grams per lb of body weight, so it might not sound like a ton from that perspective. However, we then get into this whole issue of whether or not people should really weigh 300lbs. And obviously I don't believe that if someone is 300lbs then they are cleared to eat 600 grams of protein healthily.

Not sure how many people are eating in that 500 - 600 gram per day range but they are definitely out there. And I think that kind of overeating can certainly present health problems.

 

[Smont]

In general ppl need to rember that bodybuilding is not healthy.

Steroids are not healthy
Bulking diets are not healthy
Being 50 to 100lbs over the size you were naturally is not healthy, your body just knows theres a extra 50lbs your carrying, fat, muscle, water, it dont matter. Its stressful to your body.

Control your blood pressure, do your bloodwork, and eat as "healthy as you can" .

Thats about all we can do.

I'm pretty sure Ronnie Coleman was in the 500 - 600 gram per day range too. When you think about it, that might "only" be 2 grams per lb of body weight, so it might not sound like a ton from that perspective. However, we then get into this whole issue of whether or not people should really weigh 300lbs. And obviously I don't believe that if someone is 300lbs then they are cleared to eat 600 grams of protein healthily.

Not sure how many people are eating in that 500 - 600 gram per day range but they are definitely out there. And I think that kind of overeating can certainly present health problems.

It's one hundred percent not healthy to be three hundred pounds, Even someone who wants to argue that you can be overweight and healthy, I don't think they can argue that if they lost weight they'd be healthier, Im pretty sure theres lots of evidence that shows People over 250 pounds have shorter lives.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

In general ppl need to rember that bodybuilding is not healthy.

Steroids are not healthy
Bulking diets are not healthy
Being 50 to 100lbs over the size you were naturally is not healthy, your body just knows theres a extra 50lbs your carrying, fat, muscle, water, it dont matter. Its stressful to your body.

Control your blood pressure, do your bloodwork, and eat as "healthy as you can" .

Thats about all we can do.

It's one hundred percent not healthy to be three hundred pounds, Even someone who wants to argue that you can be overweight and healthy, I don't think they can argue that if they lost weight they'd be healthier, Im pretty sure theres lots of evidence that shows People over 250 pounds have shorter lives.

You know funny enough that’s why I’m kinda permanently cutting lol. I remember when I was obsessed with bodybuilding I got to like 225/230 and I was big 5’9”. Was I the leanest? No. But despite eating healthy and working out 6 days a week, I felt terrible. It wasn’t until I dropped to 200 that I felt okay but still I have never felt better than when I was in the 170lb range.

 

[Stacks1]

In general ppl need to rember that bodybuilding is not healthy.

I would technically say that in general bodybuilding is healthy. It's the AAS, diuretics, etc., that make it unhealthy. But in it's purest form, it is very healthy.

And of course I agree that being 300lbs is unhealthy. I don't think there is any question about it, other than some guys trying to play mental gymnastics to try and justify it to themselves. And then once you're 300lbs you're trying to justify eating 500 - 600 grams of protein for your size.

Many years back I fell into the whole ridiculous high protein diet phase thinking I needed 2 grams per body pound to keep my gains going. So sitting at 200lbs I was eating 400 grams of protein, and the reality is that it did absolutely nothing but give me diarrhea and feel like crap. Cut my protein down to about 250 grams and replaced the extra calories with carbs and fat and felt amazing. Just having gone through the experience a few times, I strongly believe that overeating protein is a real thing in bodybuilding that people don't seem to think will affect their health, when in reality, I think it definitely does, especially when we're talking about the kidneys and using AAS on top.

 

[Smont]

I would technically say that in general bodybuilding is healthy. It's the AAS, diuretics, etc., that make it unhealthy. But in it's purest form, it is very healthy.

And of course I agree that being 300lbs is unhealthy. I don't think there is any question about it, other than some guys trying to play mental gymnastics to try and justify it to themselves. And then once you're 300lbs you're trying to justify eating 500 - 600 grams of protein for your size.

Many years back I fell into the whole ridiculous high protein diet phase thinking I needed 2 grams per body pound to keep my gains going. So sitting at 200lbs I was eating 400 grams of protein, and the reality is that it did absolutely nothing but give me diarrhea and feel like crap. Cut my protein down to about 250 grams and replaced the extra calories with carbs and fat and felt amazing. Just having gone through the experience a few times, I strongly believe that overeating protein is a real thing in bodybuilding that people don't seem to think will affect their health, when in reality, I think it definitely does, especially when we're talking about the kidneys and using AAS on top.

Go to a natural drug tested bodybuilding show with real naturals and you will quickly realize that bodybuilding without steroids dosent exist. Its just a bunch of skinny guys in speedos

 

[Smont]

When i say bodybuilding is unhealthy, i stand by it 1000%, because of the reason above. Nautral bb is kinda a joke. Yes. There are a select few naturals that look great, but most look like.....

 

[Stacks1]

When i say bodybuilding is unhealthy, i stand by it 1000%, because of the reason above. Nautral bb is kinda a joke. Yes. There are a select few naturals that look great, but most look like.....

Bodybuilding is only unhealthy if one chooses to make it so. Natural bodybuilding is only a joke because of the steroids and drugs that have become commonplace in the sport. I don't think natural guys like Eugen Sandow would have been considered a joke back in his day because although he was natural, so was everyone else.

I mean, we can technically say that about every sport nowadays though. How many professional football players are on PEDs today compared to 50 years ago? If we go by that logic, every sport is unhealthy.

 

[Dblock]

Going to agree with Smont on this one, bodybuilding is unhealthy. Building the body beyond your normal genetics and pushing the limits megadosing protein, calories etc is the problem. Now….if you are just “working out “ or exercising with weights/resistance training and taking nothing extra and eating a standard diet then yes it’s better for you. Bodybuilding in the true form in the long run is unhealthy

 

[Dblock]

The other unhealthy component of bodybuilding is pushing heavy weight, long haul it will give you shoulder, knee or back problem/pain at some point

 

[SSJ4GOD]

The other unhealthy component of bodybuilding is pushing heavy weight, long haul it will give you shoulder, knee or back problem/pain at some point

I believe lifting heavy in general is linked to heart enlargement

 

[Mikereyn513]

Go to a natural drug tested bodybuilding show with real naturals and you will quickly realize that bodybuilding without steroids dosent exist. Its just a bunch of skinny guys in speedos

Natural bodybuilding is an oxymoron. They're just athletes in posing trunks. The difference between bodybuilders and athletes is that bodybuilders use drugs to push past genetic limits, athletes don't

 

[Smont]

I believe lifting heavy in general is linked to heart enlargement

Playing sports in general at a high level will increase. The size of your heart doesn't matter if you're a marathon runner basketball player or a power lifter. If you play sports, your whole childhood at any form of competitive level, you have an enlarged part, most likely. In the large majority of doctors will agree that it's not a dangerous thing. Before someone tries to split hairs on this one. I'm not saying and enlarged heart isn't dangerous. Also, this is not directed at anyone. It's for all of us. We've really, really gotten off-topic In someone else's thread so i'm gonna stop

 

[Dblock]

^^^^^This is exactly spot on

 

[Mikereyn513]

In general ppl need to rember that bodybuilding is not healthy.

Steroids are not healthy
Bulking diets are not healthy
Being 50 to 100lbs over the size you were naturally is not healthy, your body just knows theres a extra 50lbs your carrying, fat, muscle, water, it dont matter. Its stressful to your body.

Control your blood pressure, do your bloodwork, and eat as "healthy as you can" .

Thats about all we can do.

It's one hundred percent not healthy to be three hundred pounds, Even someone who wants to argue that you can be overweight and healthy, I don't think they can argue that if they lost weight they'd be healthier, Im pretty sure theres lots of evidence that shows People over 250 pounds have shorter lives.

People that say you can be overweight and healthy are just making excuses for themselves because they don't have what it takes to change.

 

[Rad83]

Natural bodybuilding is an oxymoron. They're just athletes in posing trunks. The difference between bodybuilders and athletes is that bodybuilders use drugs to push past genetic limits, athletes don't

Honestly this is how I’ve always looked at it.

I remember an ‘old school’ kinda quote “you aren’t a bodybuilder, until you’ve done your first cycle”

I knew a young dude a few years ago, he was always talking about himself being a natural bodybuilder…He was very anti-steroid.
I didn’t have the heart to tell him, “bro you’re just a fitness and health enthusiast…”

 

[Stacks1]

I think you guys are referring to professional competitive bodybuilding. I was referring to bodybuilding in it's most simplest definition; the developing of the body through exercise and diet.

And while things like heart enlargement, joint issues, etc., might be valid, those things are far outweighed by the mental and physical health benefits, bone health, heart health, etc. that come from bodybuilding.

 

[EpiStrong]

Var is metabolized mainly by kidneys ... very odd as most is by the liver

 

[Resolve10]

I believe lifting heavy in general is linked to heart enlargement

Probably more than anyone was actually wanting for info, but all training will remodel the heart. More typical "cardio" will lead to more eccentric remodeling, while more typical "strength" training will lead to concentric remodeling. Of course nothing is ever strictly binary like that so there is crossover between both.

It is important to keep in mind that these are physiological changes to the heart and that don't indicate it leading to heart issues and that these changes may reverse upon cessation of training, while pathological changes to the heart due to health issues can lead to more health issues and don't tend to reverse as easily.

I think you guys are referring to professional competitive bodybuilding. I was referring to bodybuilding in it's most simplest definition; the developing of the body through exercise and diet.

And while things like heart enlargement, joint issues, etc., might be valid, those things are far outweighed by the mental and physical health benefits, bone health, heart health, etc. that come from bodybuilding.

Bodybuilding is probably "healthier", but a more balanced approach that most who bodybuild don't actually stick to is probably best. Ensuring adequate cardio and more balanced diet should be beneficial (but a lot of people who proclaim they are bodybuilders aren't the best at sticking to some of these). On a sliding scale of course it will be better than being sedentary though. Most sports (all?) after any particular level aren't healthy though.

 

[Stacks1]

Bodybuilding is probably "healthier", but a more balanced approach that most who bodybuild don't actually stick to is probably best. Ensuring adequate cardio and more balanced diet should be beneficial (but a lot of people who proclaim they are bodybuilders aren't the best at sticking to some of these). On a sliding scale of course it will be better than being sedentary though. Most sports (all?) after any particular level aren't healthy though.

Yes, I agree that a more balanced approach is obviously healthier. I was comparing bodybuilding to the opposite alternative, which is nothing. But weight training and building muscle naturally is still overall a healthy activity and lifestyle. I guess the question is whether or not you can consider someone who builds muscle naturally engaging in "bodybuilding." It seems a lot of people here don't really classify that as "bodybuilding" but I do. It's a matter of perception I guess.

Arnold Schwarzenegger's son is never going to look like his father because he doesn't appear to use PEDs (unless he eventually decides to), however that doesn't mean he doesn't "bodybuild" in my opinion. He's clearly bigger than the majority of his natural peers his age and probably bigger than some guys who even use gear. But if we're talking about actual competitive bodybuilding, then no, that's not healthy.

 

[Resolve10]

Yes, I agree that a more balanced approach is obviously healthier. I was comparing bodybuilding to the opposite alternative, which is nothing. But weight training and building muscle naturally is still overall a healthy activity and lifestyle. I guess the question is whether or not you can consider someone who builds muscle naturally engaging in "bodybuilding." It seems a lot of people here don't really classify that as "bodybuilding" but I do. It's a matter of perception I guess.

Arnold Schwarzenegger's son is never going to look like his father because he doesn't appear to use PEDs (unless he eventually decides to), however that doesn't mean he doesn't "bodybuild" in my opinion. He's clearly bigger than the majority of his natural peers his age and probably bigger than some guys who even use gear. But if we're talking about actual competitive bodybuilding, then no, that's not healthy.

Agreed. I tried to just ignore some of the dumb gatekeeping in this thread that seems to happen in these threads.

 

[BBiceps]

When i say bodybuilding is unhealthy, i stand by it 1000%, because of the reason above. Nautral bb is kinda a joke. Yes. There are a select few naturals that look great, but most look like.....

View attachment 239180

Idk, this guy is natty and he looks pretty awesome

 

[Smont]

Idk, this guy is natty and he looks pretty awesome

Duck eggs bro

 

[Smont]

There are some really good natties out there but there far and few. I have a buddy named jon, hes 6'1 200lbs and 100% natural, I've known the guy my entire life. And I've even offered to give him his cycle for free. Because I know he'll turn into a monster. 100% natty his upper body is rediculous. I could put him on A 8 week. Diet stick board shorts on him and He would smoke a natural show and every single person There would accuse him of being on steroids. Even a low level amateur show that is not natural, He would be very competitive in And I could see him winning some of thosr shows.

His workout is nothing like a body building workout either. He's just got superstar genetics

 

[sammpedd88]

Idk, this guy is natty and he looks pretty awesome

Are you ironhands in disguise?

 

[BBiceps]

Are you ironhands in disguise?

Haha, yes, have anyone seen us at the same place at the same time…

 

[Stacks1]

There are some really good natties out there but there far and few. I have a buddy named jon, hes 6'1 200lbs and 100% natural, I've known the guy my entire life. And I've even offered to give him his cycle for free. Because I know he'll turn into a monster. 100% natty his upper body is rediculous. I could put him on A 8 week. Diet stick board shorts on him and He would smoke a natural show and every single person There would accuse him of being on steroids. Even a low level amateur show that is not natural, He would be very competitive in And I could see him winning some of thosr shows.

His workout is nothing like a body building workout either. He's just got superstar genetics

You run into quite a few different genetic freaks from time to time. Take your Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler and take away their steroids and they would still be huge. I remember Jay Cutler said when he first started working out he had no idea what he was really doing but he gained 50lbs in the first 6 months of training. He took 2 full years off of training his legs so that his upper body could catch up. That's just freaky genetics.

Even Ronnie Coleman claims that he didn't start using steroids until he was 30. He said he couldn't win without them so he had no choice but to jump on gear. But if you look at him at 28 he was substantially smaller than his 30s but still freakishly huge.

There really are guys out there who are natural that some people would swear are on gear. Unfortunately, this is a tiny percent of the population and it doesn't apply to 99.9% of us who just don't have those genetics.

 

[Smont]

You run into quite a few different genetic freaks from time to time. Take your Ronnie Coleman and Jay Cutler and take away their steroids and they would still be huge. I remember Jay Cutler said when he first started working out he had no idea what he was really doing but he gained 50lbs in the first 6 months of training. He took 2 full years off of training his legs so that his upper body could catch up. That's just freaky genetics.

Even Ronnie Coleman claims that he didn't start using steroids until he was 30. He said he couldn't win without them so he had no choice but to jump on gear. But if you look at him at 28 he was substantially smaller than his 30s but still freakishly huge.

There really are guys out there who are natural that some people would swear are on gear. Unfortunately, this is a tiny percent of the population and it doesn't apply to 99.9% of us who just don't have those genetics.

I believe ronnie, Specifically for the fact of how much he improved after he said he started. He was already huge, but then he put on like 50 more pounds. And that doesn't happen when you're thirty and already a pro. I don't know if anyone remembers Kai green as a amature. But at a 170 pounds he looked better than most The guys who were 30lbs bigger. Then he turned pro and gained a hundred pounds of muscle

 

[Stacks1]

I believe ronnie, Specifically for the fact of how much he improved after he said he started. He was already huge, but then he put on like 50 more pounds. And that doesn't happen when you're thirty and already a pro. I don't know if anyone remembers Kai green as a amature. But at a 170 pounds he looked better than most The guys who were 30lbs bigger. Then he turned pro and gained a hundred pounds of muscle

I believe Ronnie as well. I think one of the things that always impressed me with some of the natural freaks is their ability to cut down to such a low body fat and retain so much muscle. If you look at a lot of those skinny natural bodybuilders like the guy you posted a picture of, they might not look so terrible if they were in the 10-12% body fat range. But when you're trying to cut down to mid single digit numbers, it is so hard to retain that muscle naturally and you just end up looking scrawny. But of course there are always those outliers who are just genetic freaks too.

 

[EpiStrong]

Idk, this guy is natty and he looks pretty awesome

Where's @ironhands when you need him

Edit I'm late

 

[Smont]

Ironhands? I can be whatever you want sweetheart

Iron hands is a member here with like 1 thread, It's dedicated to natural body builders, It's like seven hundred pages and maybe one out of 500 people he posts are natural. Anyone who claims natural and has not been caught using steroids in his mind is a hundred percent natural, even mr. Duck eggs

 

[EpiStrong]

Iron hands is a member here with like 1 thread, It's dedicated to natural body builders, It's like seven hundred pages and maybe one out of 500 people he posts are natural. Anyone who claims natural and has not been caught using steroids in his mind is a hundred percent natural, even mr. Duck eggs

He is legitimately the most adamant troll I know of. The guy kept the thread going for years.

 

[BBiceps]

He is legitimately the most adamant troll I know of. The guy kept the thread going for years.

More of a troll than Starscream?

 

[KvanH]

Iron hands is a member here with like 1 thread, It's dedicated to natural body builders, It's like seven hundred pages and maybe one out of 500 people he posts are natural. Anyone who claims natural and has not been caught using steroids in his mind is a hundred percent natural, even mr. Duck eggs

Let's not forget his Jesus biceps growing training -thread, or something.

 

[BBiceps]

Iron hands is a member here with like 1 thread, It's dedicated to natural body builders, It's like seven hundred pages and maybe one out of 500 people he posts are natural. Anyone who claims natural and has not been caught using steroids in his mind is a hundred percent natural, even mr. Duck eggs

Haha, I had no idea who it was, I’ll change my post

 

[Smont]

Haha, I had no idea who it was, I’ll change my post

Naw leave it

 

[Smont]

Lol

 

[KvanH]

Found it

https://anabolicminds.com/community/threads/ironhands-negativity-free-arm-growth-for-jesus-bodybuilding-questions-and-answers-thr.302849/

The OP is a different handle, but probably the same person having convo with his other handle, Jacked dad style.