Proviron questions

[viridarius]

Does proviron provide any benefit when added to a cycle of an aas that doesn't convert to estrogen? I've seen people saying it doesn't as the main benefit on cycle is it's estrogen blocking effects.

Wouldn't it's ability to raise free testosterone and androgenic effects provide benefits besides anti-estrogen effects?

Also, would HCG + proviron on cycle work as a test base? HCG keeping up testosterone production and proviron keeping it unbound?

Still in the research phase and making sure I have a decent understanding of everything before running a cycle.

 

[BBiceps]

No
No
No
You have more to research to be able to have a decent understanding.

 

[viridarius]

No
No
No
You have more to research to be able to have a decent understanding.

For the first question, why not?

In William Llewellyn's Anabolics he says that non-androgenic steroids are not as good as more androgenic substance's at building muscle because androgenic effects are also tied in to the process of building strength and for this reason, a common way to stack is to start a cycle on aas with low androgenic effects(to avoid androgenic side effects) and then later in the cycle add on a more androgenic substance to increase effectiveness and essentially keep from hitting a wall so to speak.

Why would proviron not be good for this? It's highly androgenic.

 

[BBiceps]

For the first question, why not?

In William Llewellyn's Anabolics he says that non-androgenic steroids are not as good as more androgenic substance's at building muscle because androgenic effects are also tied in to the process of building strength and for this reason, a common way to stack is to start a cycle on aas with low androgenic effects(to avoid androgenic side effects) and then later in the cycle add on a more androgenic substance to increase effectiveness and essentially keep from hitting a wall so to speak.

Why would proviron not be good for this? It's highly androgenic.

Since you have your fancy book, why are you here asking questions? Your book should have all the answers you need.

 

[viridarius]

No in that the “main benefit on cycle is it's estrogen blocking effects” from Proviron. Also, Proviron is not a strong anabolic by itself.

Btw since you have your fancy book, why are you here asking questions? Your book should have all the answers you need.

I mean the book got me to the knowledge I have and obviously the questions I asked showed I have gaps in what I understand so that's why I'm here.

Information is kinda basic throughout the book. It's an alright reference, but I can't ask a book questions and I have questions that aren't covered. The compound profiles are pretty light and don't discuss some things, like no where is proviron talked about for PCT but I've seen it used for that.

 

[Rocket3015]

We have some good folks here that I'm sure will be able to help you out.

 

[Nac]

Proviron will do very little for gainz. If I understand you correctly, youre thinking of adding hcg to minimise shutdown from....the proviron? Or is there another AAS here you havent mentioned?

 

[Mikereyn513]

No
No
No
You have more to research to be able to have a decent understanding.

sorry op not making fun if you but my guys response made me laugh

 

[viridarius]

Proviron will do very little for gainz. If I understand you correctly, youre thinking of adding hcg to minimise shutdown from....the proviron? Or is there another AAS here you havent mentioned?

I just left it at "another aas that wasn't estrogenic", I was just trying to see if my understanding of proviron was good(it was not). Info in Anabolics is light and I've seen it being used quite a few ways he doesn't discuss.

My first cycle is probably going to be Winnie only(do I need a test base for a first cycle?) And HCG + Nolva for PCT...unless I could go without the HCG because it's my first cycle and suppression shouldn't be too pronounced?

25mg for 2 weeks, then 50mg for 6 more followed by PCT.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I would...do .1mg/cc up to .2ccmg/ cc Monday through Friday ( 100 -200 mg/ week) that way estrogen stays balanced

 

[Nac]

I just left it at "another aas that wasn't estrogenic", I was just trying to see if my understanding of proviron was good(it was not). Info in Anabolics is light and I've seen it being used quite a few ways he doesn't discuss.

My first cycle is probably going to be Winnie only(do I need a test base for a first cycle?) And HCG + Nolva for PCT...unless I could go without the HCG because it's my first cycle and suppression shouldn't be too pronounced?

25mg for 2 weeks, then 50mg for 6 more followed by PCT.

I hate to be a downer but I just dont see any gainz being made here. Winstrol only...with lowered estrogen my joints would start feeling sh1tty and my libido would tank. Theres possibly better oral-only cycles but personally I just wouldnt find the gainz worth the cost ($ and how I felt on cycle and PCTing).

Incidentally, I think the winstrol wouldve pretty much made the proviron largely redundant given your reasons in your initial plan.

 

[viridarius]

I hate to be a downer but I just dont see any gainz being made here. Winstrol only...with lowered estrogen my joints would start feeling sh1tty and my libido would tank. Theres possibly better oral-only cycles but personally I just wouldnt find the gainz worth the cost ($ and how I felt on cycle and PCTing).

Incidentally, I think the winstrol wouldve pretty much made the proviron largely redundant given your reasons in your initial plan.

What's a better oral only cycle? I was considering anavar before winstrol but anavar is expensive. I'm mostly looking to increase endurance and strength, gain a bit of mass as well and round out some disproportions.

 

[Mikereyn513]

What's a better oral only cycle? I was considering anavar before winstrol but anavar is expensive. I'm mostly looking to increase endurance and strength, gain a bit of mass as well and round out some disproportions.

Anavar is the only compound I would consider doing oral only. I woukd never do it but people in the industry that I respect say it's possible. I'm telling you right now if you can't pin the gear is not for you and I'm totally serious about that. There's nothing wrong with staying natural

 

[Mikereyn513]

You're still going to be suppressed with anavar so you're going to eventually have to pin hcg

 

[BBiceps]

What's a better oral only cycle? I was considering anavar before winstrol but anavar is expensive. I'm mostly looking to increase endurance and strength, gain a bit of mass as well and round out some disproportions.

Low dose Dbol, then it actually would make sense (somewhat) to add your Proviron. Run Dbol for 4-6 weeks and Proviron for 6-8 weeks and then run PCT (I prefer Clomid) for 6 weeks.

 

[Nac]

Yeah, Id do the dbol and anavar combo myself. Only cos I suspect the var would give all the SHBG etc benefits of the proviron but be a better PED wrt strength and body comp.

 

[BBiceps]

Yeah, Id do the dbol and anavar combo myself. Only cos I suspect the var would give all the SHBG etc benefits of the proviron but be a better PED wrt strength and body comp.

True but it sounds like OP don’t want to use Anavar.

 

[Nac]

True but it sounds like OP don’t want to use Anavar.

Yeah I see he mentioned cost. Most places I shop the 2 are fairly comparable cost wise though.

 

[BBiceps]

Yeah I see he mentioned cost. Most places I shop the 2 are fairly comparable cost wise though.

That’s also true. Maybe it’s not mentioned in OP’s fancy book…

 

[viridarius]

Anavar is the only compound I would consider doing oral only. I woukd never do it but people in the industry that I respect say it's possible. I'm telling you right now if you can't pin the gear is not for you and I'm totally serious about that. There's nothing wrong with staying natural

I have no problem pinning. I mean I was asking questions about HCG. That's sub-q. Also a test base... I was going to go with actual test if I needed one. Just don't know if that's necessary with my first cycle of anything besides epi-andro or DHEA.

On the other side, I'm also fond of my liver.

Only problem with epi-andro is it's weak and expensive.

 

[viridarius]

That’s also true. Maybe it’s not mentioned in OP’s fancy book…

Just the prices I've seen around. Can't discuss sources though.

Seems like anything but anavar would be more cost efficient even epi-andro or SARMs .

 

[BBiceps]

Just the prices I've seen around. Can't discuss sources though.

Seems like anything but anavar would be more cost efficient even epi-andro or SARMs .

If oral is what you want you can just run Dbol or Winny (or both) for 4-6 weeks, just don’t expect to keep much of whatever you gain, it’ll be mostly cosmetic but you’ll get stronger also, unfortunately you’ll lose both quick after. Short oral cycles can be good/fun before a photo shoot/event/competition but nothing to expect to gain anything serious from.

 

[Rocket3015]

And who doesn't want to look good for there summer vacation on the beach!

 

[Mikereyn513]

I have no problem pinning. I mean I was asking questions about HCG. That's sub-q. Also a test base... I was going to go with actual test if I needed one. Just don't know if that's necessary with my first cycle of anything besides epi-andro or DHEA.

On the other side, I'm also fond of my liver.

Only problem with epi-andro is it's weak and expensive.

I your fond of your liver than why would you run orals and not just do injectables?

 

[Smont]

For the first question, why not?

In William Llewellyn's Anabolics he says that non-androgenic steroids are not as good as more androgenic substance's at building muscle because androgenic effects are also tied in to the process of building strength and for this reason, a common way to stack is to start a cycle on aas with low androgenic effects(to avoid androgenic side effects) and then later in the cycle add on a more androgenic substance to increase effectiveness and essentially keep from hitting a wall so to speak.

Why would proviron not be good for this? It's highly androgenic.

Proviron dosent build muscle. At all, zero...

But it will make your testosterone work a little better if your on test

Hcg can be used in place of test as the base of a cycle but it's kinda a waste of time. Your going to be able to keep your nuts active and not feel shitty on cycle "depending on what your running" but your missing out on all the benifits of being on test. And you still gotta inject hcg so just inject test

Testosterone and masteron together will do all the things your thinking of without using a half ass reinvent the wheel method

 

[viridarius]

I your fond of your liver than why would you run orals and not just do injectables?

That's what I was saying.

Really price for now, main reason I want to gain strength and endurance is just to be able to work a more physical labors job that pays higher.

You know, support my family and stuff.

 

[viridarius]

Proviron dosent build muscle. At all, zero...

But it will make your testosterone work a little better if your on test

Hcg can be used in place of test as the base of a cycle but it's kinda a waste of time. Your going to be able to keep your nuts active and not feel shitty on cycle "depending on what your running" but your missing out on all the benifits of being on test. And you still gotta inject hcg so just inject test

Testosterone and masteron together will do all the things your thinking of without using a half ass reinvent the wheel method

Gotcha, I mean i was just wondering if it was possible. The cycle I actually planned to use was different from that.

I'm guessing you guys are used to people coming hear and not wanting to pin?

 

[Smont]

If injectable is out

10-20mg dbol
15-20mg rad 140
25-50mg proviron or swap proviron for 600+ epiandro

Test/mast would still be better.

If this is your first cycle then stacking isint a great idea. Maybe just do a 20mg a day dbol cycle.

Gotcha, I mean i was just wondering if it was possible. The cycle I actually planned to use was different from that.

I'm guessing you guys are used to people coming hear and not wanting to pin?

Yes, but it's a very short term and unhealthy way to cycle. Injectables in general are much safer then orals. IL usually give ppl a few oral options like above but longterm the guys who do only orals typically go on cycle, gain 10lbs, go off cycle and lose 10 lbs and don't male much progress, so your less healthy and building less muscle. It's a lose/lose situation when comparing to Injectable cycles.

You can only add about 12-15lbs of actual muscle In a year on steroids, so if you can only gain 15 of actual muscle tissue in 52 weeks, how much do you logically think you can add in little 4-8 week oral cycles 2-3x a year.

Not much

 

[viridarius]

If injectable is out

10-20mg dbol
15-20mg rad 140
25-50mg proviron or swap proviron for 600+ epiandro

Test/mast would still be better.

If this is your first cycle then stacking isint a great idea. Maybe just do a 20mg a day dbol cycle.

Yes, but it's a very short term and unhealthy way to cycle. Injectables in general are much safer then orals. IL usually give ppl a few oral options like above but longterm the guys who do only orals typically go on cycle, gain 10lbs, go off cycle and lose 10 lbs and don't male much progress, so your less healthy and building less muscle. It's a lose/lose situation when comparing to Injectable cycles.

You can only add about 12-15lbs of actual muscle In a year on steroids, so if you can only gain 15 of actual muscle tissue in 52 weeks, how much do you logically think you can add in little 4-8 week oral cycles 2-3x a year.

Not much

That goes against what William Llewellyn's Anabolics says. He says that whether it's possible to keep gains made on performance enhancers/anabolics depends on whether or not the athlete/bodybuilder/patient has reached their natural limit. If they have, all gains will be lost, but if utilized to reach their natural limit faster then not necessarily.

Catabolism increases after a cycle but with hard training and proper diet both on cycle and after some gains can be kept.

I kept most of my gains after epi-andro with subpar diet but by keeping up the pace I had set on cycle so that seems to be true in my case at least.

 

[Smont]

That goes against what William Llewellyn's Anabolics says. He says that whether it's possible to keep gains made on performance enhancers/anabolics depends on whether or not the athlete/bodybuilder/patient has reached their natural limit. If they have, all gains will be lost, but if utilized to reach their natural limit faster then not necessarily.

Catabolism increases after a cycle but with hard training and proper diet both on cycle and after some gains can be kept.

I kept most of my gains after epi-andro with subpar diet but by keeping up the pace I had set on cycle so that seems to be true in my case at least.

Ok bud, good luck

 

[Mikereyn513]

 

[BBiceps]

Ok bud, good luck

Sorry, you got outsmarted by the fancy book, but to be fair, none of us can stand a chance against “the book”, it has all the answers.

 

[Smont]

That goes against what William Llewellyn's Anabolics says. He says that whether it's possible to keep gains made on performance enhancers/anabolics depends on whether or not the athlete/bodybuilder/patient has reached their natural limit. If they have, all gains will be lost, but if utilized to reach their natural limit faster then not necessarily.

Catabolism increases after a cycle but with hard training and proper diet both on cycle and after some gains can be kept.

I kept most of my gains after epi-andro with subpar diet but by keeping up the pace I had set on cycle so that seems to be true in my case at least.

You very likely have no clue what's muscle gained and what's weight gained. Your perception of what you gain on a cycle, especially a epiandro cycle which not very good at building muscle in the first place is probably also skewed. Post before and after pictures of your epiandro cycle and post a 3rd picture showing gains kept. Regardless, of course you don't just loose gains over night. But you don't build muscle over night either. But regardless other then that I will make my exit and I will leave you with the same thing I say to the other 50k ppl who think like you.

Start a log, post often and take progress picks and then after a year has passed let's see what was actually gained in MUSCLE MASS.

Almost no1 ever takes the offer and the ones that do quit after there first pct. The prove us wrong crew has zero wins and 50,000 losses. But you sir can be the first!

 

[viridarius]

You very likely have no clue what's muscle gained and what's weight gained. Your perception of what you gain on a cycle, especially a epiandro cycle which not very good at building muscle in the first place is probably also skewed. Post before and after pictures of your epiandro cycle and post a 3rd picture showing gains kept. Regardless, of course you don't just loose gains over night. But you don't build muscle over night either. But regardless other then that I will make my exit and I will leave you with the same thing I say to the other 50k ppl who think like you.

Start a log, post often and take progress picks and then after a year has passed let's see what was actually gained in MUSCLE MASS.

Almost no1 ever takes the offer and the ones that do quit after there first pct. The prove us wrong crew has zero wins and 50,000 losses. But you sir can be the first!

****, I'm game.

I'll do a cycle of Rad-140 15mg a day for 8 weeks.

On week 4 I'll add 600-800mg of epi andro till end of cycle.

...I'll try that before going to an actual AAS...

Anyways, Then I'll PCT with Nolva and see how it goes and what I keep.

 

[Mikereyn513]

It's funny I have that same book..but textbooks..and real world application are totally different..I believe Llewellyn states that

 

[viridarius]

It's funny I have that same book..but textbooks..and real world application are totally different..I believe Llewellyn states that

All I can do is try and compare the too and keep others experience in mind.

 

[Rocket3015]

Hiring a good coach to get you on the right track might be a god idea. Someone with experience, and one you will listen too. Just a thought.

 

[BBiceps]

Hiring a good coach to get you on the right track might be a god idea. Someone with experience, and one you will listen too. Just a thought.

OP don’t need a coach, he have his fancy book remember?

 

[Rocket3015]

OP don’t need a coach, he have his fancy book remember?

I believe he does need someone to steer him in the right direction. We all do at times

 

[BBiceps]

I believe he does need someone to steer him in the right direction. We all do at times

I agree 100%, unfortunately it doesn’t seem like OP wants to listen.

 

[Mikereyn513]

OP don’t need a coach, he have his fancy book remember?

Dude I was just going to post that sane thing

 

[khall1974]

I can't stand when multiple people are sharing their real world knowledge and experience and the OP doesn't want to listen.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I can't stand when multiple people are sharing their real world knowledge and experience and the OP doesn't want to listen.

Im always like then why did you ask in the first place if you're so sure

 

[Rocket3015]

Im always like then why did you ask in the first place if you're so sure

This is my Question ??