ProSynthesis Line-up. Anyone interested?

Mike Arnold

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ProSynthesis Variants
The original ProSynthesis-17 product is about to be released, but because we've already received such an enormous amount of positive feedback (more than any other previous product release, by far), I am strongly considering making an entire line of ProSynthesis products. Whether or not we do so will depend entirely on customer interest.

As many of you know, the original ProSynthesis product will not only be the most effective amino acid product available, but it will also be the best value. Quite simply, you will receive more for your money than with any other amino product on the market. Despite its cost-effectiveness, it still isn't a cheap product, as the sheer quantity of amino acids provided necessitates a higher price point. Therefore, if I were to make the products listed below, the price would necessarily be higher simply because you would be receiving more than just amino acids. Each version would be more like two products rolled into one.

The original ProSynthesis formula already requires us to use a 2 pound protein bottle! That is a massive container compared to other EAA products, but most of the ProSynthesis variants would require us to use even larger containers. I am talking about 3, 4, or even 5 pound monster jugs! That is a massive EAA-based product, not the tiny little EAA bottles most of us are accustomed to.

I can't yet say exactly what the prices of these variants would be, but what I can tell you is that you would get the best deal on the market. How can I say that? Because I would be adding in the extra ingredients at wholesale or nearly wholesale prices. In other words, if adding Ketones to the product cost me $20 per container, that's roughly what you will pay. I can say with 100% certainty that this pretty much never happens in this industry. Almost all companies stick to a certain profit margin, so if they add in an additional $20 of raw materials, the price of the product is going to increase much more than just $20.

These variants would be serious products for serious trainers, just like the original ProSynthesis. They would be for people who know what they want and understand what they are getting for their money. With all this said, does anyone have any interest in the following?


ProSynthesis “Burn”
The original ProSynthesis formula (same servings & quantities of aminos) combined with 15-20 grams of Ketones per serving.

Or…the original ProSynthesis formula (same servings & quantities of aminos) combined with 10-15 grams of Ketones & C8 MCT oil (water soluble) per serving.

  • The idea here is provide the same muscle building benefits of the original ProSynthesis, along with a fat loss friendly source of energy.
ProSynthesis “Build”

The original ProSynthesis formula (same servings & quantities of aminos) combined with 1.5 grams of Mediator PA (phosphatidic acid) per serving.

I will likely add more than just phosphatidic acid, but I’m not sure what yet. If you have any suggestions, I’m all ears.

  • The idea here is to provide the same muscle building benefits of the original ProSynthesis, along with additional muscle building horsepower.
ProSynthesis “Perform”
The original ProSynthesis formula (same servings & quantities of aminos) combined with 30 grams of HBCD’s (highly branched cluster dextrins).

Or…the original ProSynthesis formula (same servings & quantities of aminos) combined with 15 grams of HBCD’s (highly branched cluster dextrins) & 15 grams of Carb10. This version would be a bit less costly than using only HBCD’s, as Carb10 is much less expensive than HBCDs.

For both versions, I would also likely add in things like creatine, beta alanine, extra citrulline, etc.

  • The idea here is to make a more traditional EAA & Carb product, along with the typical foundational ingredients found in most pre-workout products. This would require a massive container. Like a 5 pound container.
 
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Resolve10

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Yes. I want to try it in its "base" form first, but would definitely be intrigued by some of these as well.
 

chainsaw

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Wow all sounds good. I will be in just for base product. However the "build" sounds very good.
 

alvin1

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What is the added bonus of high dose BCAA and phosphatic acids? Both boost MTOR?
 

Jeremyk1

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What is the added bonus of high dose BCAA and phosphatic acids? Both boost MTOR?
My understanding is that aminos will directly signal mTOR, phosphatidic acid acts more upstream allowing more signaling. Not totally sure on that, I haven’t read up on PA in years.
 

dcoen21

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They all sound good I just want one of them. Build could be choline bitarate, creatine, glutamine and Plcar.
 

tenorguy33

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The OG and build would be the version I would look for most. Perform possibly depending on price point.
 
Ricky10

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Build and Perform sound equally interesting for me. I order from MaLabs on a regular basis, so I will definitely be on the lookout to add one of these products to my future orders when available.
 
Ricky10

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Ouch! I just saw that Stim-Feak no longer seems to be available. FML

😥😥😥
 
Stopstalking2

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Build and Perform sound equally interesting for me. I order from MaLabs on a regular basis, so I will definitely be on the lookout to add one of these products to my future orders when available.
Pretty much what I came to write lol
 

determination

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I would be interested in Build and Perform (without beta-alanine)
 
ELROCK

ELROCK

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Love this idea especially the Build version.
 
Rocket3015

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I like the idea, I'm just not sure of how many customers will set up and spend the money ??
 
Rocket3015

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N2ofusion

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My personal opinion (just an opinion, not to offend) is that I’d like to see new flavors of the original before branching out to variants.

I’m a sucker for grape flavors. The burn one sounds cool but I’m about maxed out of peach flavor 😂
 
Rocket3015

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Grape, Peach, Pineapple all sound good to me.
 
Smont

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My personal opinion (just an opinion, not to offend) is that I’d like to see new flavors of the original before branching out to variants.

I’m a sucker for grape flavors. The burn one sounds cool but I’m about maxed out of peach flavor 😂
Just a tip, I'm not talking about any product in particular but all products. Whenever I find a supplement that I really like but the flavor doesn't agree with me, I but those little zero cal flavor sticks or something similar and use it to alter the flavor.
 
Stopstalking2

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Any kind of ruff eta for at least the original?
 

N2ofusion

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Just a tip, I'm not talking about any product in particular but all products. Whenever I find a supplement that I really like but the flavor doesn't agree with me, I but those little zero cal flavor sticks or something similar and use it to alter the flavor.
Oh yeah. I’m big on the flavor drops too to get it just right.
 

Mike Arnold

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I like the idea, I'm just not sure of how many customers will set up and spend the money ??
I hear ya'. I know it won't be for everyone, but I am targeting the smart people. 😁

As you know, many people already take EAAs as a foundational product...and then they add other stuff on top of it, such phosphatidic acid, etc. Just those 2 products alone usually isn't cheap, but people do it all the time. However, if they were to buy only ProSynthesis "Build", they would end up getting BOTH of these products...and for a better price! I absolutely guarantee that if someone were to go out and buy 1 kg of aminos PLUS a full 30 days supply of Mediator PA, they would spend MUCH more than what ProSynthesis Build would cost them.

That's why I say it is for the "smart people".

When evaluating the price of the product, it really just comes down to someone's supplement budget. If someone only spends $30 a month on supps, then it may not be for them, but if they are the kind of person that uses multiple products at once...and they want to buy EAAs and Phosphatidic acid specifically, then it's a no-brainer. Why would someone buy them separately if they can buy them together and save money? That's my logic, at least.

However, people have to be able to do basic math in order to know they are getting a better deal. This might sound ridiculous, but I can assure you that the supplement industry COUNTS on the ignorance of consumers every single day in order to sell products. This is why so many people buy products simply because of advertising. These people do no research on a product's ingredients, they don't read labels, and they won't even use basic math when attempting to make an apples to apples price comparison.

I think most of the people here are smarter than that. That's why they're here. So, I agree that ProSynthesis Build won't work for everyone's budget, but for those people who want to buy both EAA & phosphatidic acid, it would be the best way to go.
 
Rocket3015

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I would buy it, Correction I Will Buy It !!
 

kelechi

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Do you have any plans to make your products available in UK?
 

Mike Arnold

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dcittadini

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Dang, just catching this thread. LOVE it all. Ditto to basically everyone. I'm all in for these. I would have use cases for all 3 versions depending on goals throughout the year, and would personally use the Build most often, though could also make the case for Burn since I unintentionally 'intermittent fast' most days.

I'd be totally fine with the tradeoffs presented for both Ketone's and HBCD's as a consumer (appreciating the savings with less costly, yet still effective ingredients) I am not keto, but I know that world has its zealots, so that would potentially be the one which not to "skimp" 🤷‍♂️ from my layman perspective, I'd actually appreciate the inclusion of the C8 to get a "wider spectrum" of fuels, but the zealots, specific ratios, testing strips, etc ... most of the Perform crowd likely isn't contest prepping and will be more forgiving, just my .02

Offbeat suggestion for the Burn: include a solid dose of Nicotinic Acid (NOT niacinamide) ... and like enough to actually get a flush for the first few days of use ;) And since I like it as a general health supp, I'll just lob in a vote for epicatechin wherever it may fit (w/ liposomal carrier or something to increase absorption)

Regardless, the line sounds like a winner. I'm excited to see what it evolves into and have absolute faith in whatever decisions you make. Realest in the game. Much love, Mike, and congrats on the successful product launch!
 

dcittadini

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Shoot, since we're here, I'm curious about your thoughts on a PA product like Mediator vs Soy Lecithin granules (to the equivalent PA dose)?

Btw, I had mentioned this in an unrelated thread, but think it could be useful here too. Preemptive apology for the rambling:
  • I respond well to Soy Lecithin/Phosphatidic Acid, so I am really excited to see this potentially included
  • I have used products with Soy Lecithin, and products only containing PA (I'm pretty sure they have all been the Mediator branded extract, unsure if there's another)
  • Anecdotally, I've seen better strength/size gains with Soy Lecithin or SL containing products vs. solo PA (I still see solid gains with solo PA)
  • Where PA wins out every time lays in the fact that Soy Lecithin is flat out nauseating (for myself and most)
I am not sure if you, or anyone else, has this same experience? Is it possible to create a micronized version SL? I previously used an Olympus Labs product which contained, I believe, a micronized version of SL granules (definitely a higher PA yield vs pure SL), and it was markedly easier on my stomach than say Ferns SL Granules.

*I totally understand Mediator makes most sense since the tubs are already huge with all the aminos and adding SL would make it look like it should be sold at Costco 😁 but I recall hearing previously that Mediator ain't cheap to use (maybe that's changed, it's been a while), so potentially it could make sense from a much longer term financial lens. Heck, I could even see you patent your own version of a micronized SL product standardized for crazy high PA!
And I know the additional calories + fats probably tip the scales too far for most, but I swear by those extra SL gains in comparison 🤷‍♂️ my presumption/hypothesis is that the phosphatidylcholine helps increase absorption and there is a bit of a cascade effect with the entire phosphatide package. I also notice more pronounced positive mental effects (building to saturation with continued use, doesn't diminish) with SL, choline/serine the likely culprits

EDIT: I'm seeing after a very quick and embarrassing search that micronized (or de-oiled) SL is out there, but my novice eyes are leery of the sources. Also would be curious of how micronizing potentially changes phosphatide yield (if at all). If you're game for it, I can help with the costs of a potential small batch beta test run 😉 lots of experience with this particular supp.
I think some glutamine added w/ EAAs could help offset some stomach discomfort, maybe throw in a couple grams
 
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dcittadini

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Also throwing in a vote for Fucoxanthin to be included in the Burn version. I'll continue ruminating...
 
bkprice

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How about a bolt on line. Premixed packets you can just dump into ProSynthesis to amp it up anyway you want. That way, a person could transform his single product into several different ones.
 
Rocket3015

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How about a bolt on line. Premixed packets you can just dump into ProSynthesis to amp it up anyway you want. That way, a person could transform his single product into several different ones.
That is a very good idea, but I'm not sure of cost ???
 
bkprice

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Years ago, I looked for an unflavored protein that came with different flavored packets. I get tired of one flavor and thought it would be cool to be able to flavor my own. I know a lot of guys use the blender to make different shakes, thought this would be a short cut.
 
Stopstalking2

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How about a bolt on line. Premixed packets you can just dump into ProSynthesis to amp it up anyway you want. That way, a person could transform his single product into several different ones.
love this idea but not sure how it work out cost wise
 

Mike Arnold

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How about a bolt on line. Premixed packets you can just dump into ProSynthesis to amp it up anyway you want. That way, a person could transform his single product into several different ones.
Yes, this would be cool, but making individualized packets vs. just adding those same ingredients into ProSynthesis, would increase the cost too much. ProSynthesis alone already has a low profit margin. It gets even lower once I add in extra ingredients at basically manufacturing cost. At that point, there just isn't any money left to spare. Even if I put all those "extras" into separate packs and sold them at straight manufacturing cost, you would still be paying substantially more because there would now be 2 manufacturing costs.

You see, when a manufacturer makes a product for a company, they don't upcharge the company on the price of the raws. Rather, they charge for bottling/bagging stuff. So, even if I were to make a product that contained only $1 of raws (e.g., ingredients), such as a bottle of Vitamin C, the manufacturer would still charge me a basic "per unit" cost. The "per unit" cost varies depending on the size/type of bottle/bag, lids, heat seals, etc., but generally speaking, a manufacturer is still going to charge someone $5, $6, $7 "per unit" just to bottle/bag the stuff.

I would also have to pay a designer to design the label, and a printing shop to print them. This cost would then be added onto the manufacturing cost. I very much doubt that people would want to pay this much more just to be able to add ingredients separately.

But, aside from all that, the idea would be impossible to implement anyway. Even if people wanted to pay 2 manufacturing costs, I still wouldn't be able to implement the idea...because I couldn't sell the packets at manufacturing cost. Why? You might be thinking "If you could sell those ingredients at manufacturing cost when added to ProSynthesis, why couldn't you sell them at manufacturing cost added to separate packs?"

Here's why: If I were to start selling sell a bunch of separate packets containing ingredients like phosphatidic acid and ketones at manufacturing cost, a ****-TON of people would buy ONLY the packets...and NOT the ProSynthesis. A LOT of people would do that. Basically, every single person who wanted to buy phosphatidic acid (or ketones or whatever), but not EAAs, would come to my store and buy those packs. If you wanted to buy only PA and could get it at manufacturing cost, bagged and ready to go, wouldn't you?

The end result would be me selling a ****-TON of PA packs, ketone packs, etc., and making ZERO dollars. Actually, I would LOSE money because I would still need to pay someone to do all the shipping, keep the books, etc. :(
 

sammpedd88

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I hear ya'. I know it won't be for everyone, but I am targeting the smart people.

As you know, many people already take EAAs as a foundational product...and then they add other stuff on top of it, such phosphatidic acid, etc. Just those 2 products alone usually isn't cheap, but people do it all the time. However, if they were to buy only ProSynthesis "Build", they would end up getting BOTH of these products...and for a better price! I absolutely guarantee that if someone were to go out and buy 1 kg of aminos PLUS a full 30 days supply of Mediator PA, they would spend MUCH more than what ProSynthesis Build would cost them.

That's why I say it is for the "smart people".

When evaluating the price of the product, it really just comes down to someone's supplement budget. If someone only spends $30 a month on supps, then it may not be for them, but if they are the kind of person that uses multiple products at once...and they want to buy EAAs and Phosphatidic acid specifically, then it's a no-brainer. Why would someone buy them separately if they can buy them together and save money? That's my logic, at least.

However, people have to be able to do basic math in order to know they are getting a better deal. This might sound ridiculous, but I can assure you that the supplement industry COUNTS on the ignorance of consumers every single day in order to sell products. This is why so many people buy products simply because of advertising. These people do no research on a product's ingredients, they don't read labels, and they won't even use basic math when attempting to make an apples to apples price comparison.

I think most of the people here are smarter than that. That's why they're here. So, I agree that ProSynthesis Build won't work for everyone's budget, but for those people who want to buy both EAA & phosphatidic acid, it would be the best way to go.
I’m very interested in the build formula.
 
Rocket3015

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Yes, this would be cool, but making individualized packets vs. just adding those same ingredients into ProSynthesis, would increase the cost too much. ProSynthesis alone already has a low profit margin. It gets even lower once I add in extra ingredients at basically manufacturing cost. At that point, there just isn't any money left to spare. Even if I put all those "extras" into separate packs and sold them at straight manufacturing cost, you would still be paying substantially more because there would now be 2 manufacturing costs.

You see, when a manufacturer makes a product for a company, they don't upcharge the company on the price of the raws. Rather, they charge for bottling/bagging stuff. So, even if I were to make a product that contained only $1 of raws (e.g., ingredients), such as a bottle of Vitamin C, the manufacturer would still charge me a basic "per unit" cost. The "per unit" cost varies depending on the size/type of bottle/bag, lids, heat seals, etc., but generally speaking, a manufacturer is still going to charge someone $5, $6, $7 "per unit" just to bottle/bag the stuff.

I would also have to pay a designer to design the label, and a printing shop to print them. This cost would then be added onto the manufacturing cost. I very much doubt that people would want to pay this much more just to be able to add ingredients separately.

But, aside from all that, the idea would be impossible to implement anyway. Even if people wanted to pay 2 manufacturing costs, I still wouldn't be able to implement the idea...because I couldn't sell the packets at manufacturing cost. Why? You might be thinking "If you could sell those ingredients at manufacturing cost when added to ProSynthesis, why couldn't you sell them at manufacturing cost added to separate packs?"

Here's why: If I were to start selling sell a bunch of separate packets containing ingredients like phosphatidic acid and ketones at manufacturing cost, a ****-TON of people would buy ONLY the packets...and NOT the ProSynthesis. A LOT of people would do that. Basically, every single person who wanted to buy phosphatidic acid (or ketones or whatever), but not EAAs, would come to my store and buy those packs. If you wanted to buy only PA and could get it at manufacturing cost, bagged and ready to go, wouldn't you?

The end result would be me selling a ****-TON of PA packs, ketone packs, etc., and making ZERO dollars. Actually, I would LOSE money because I would still need to pay someone to do all the shipping, keep the books, etc. :(
It all makes very good sense, and you deserver to make a profit for your work. We all need to eat !
 

dcittadini

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potentially add some Bromelain to all versions or just the Burn, I think it could be useful on multiple fronts
 
Falco1098

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OMG ...love the Build version plan.

But when is just the base formula coming out? It has been soon for a few months now! Lets just get the base version out in the next few weeks then have a build version in a few months!

This summer is 100% natty mesocycles for me so having this as my post workout on a lean bulk will be killer. Me needs its nows!
 

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