ProSynthesis-17 vs. today's EEA products (more info)

Mike Arnold

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Do any of you remember HumaPro, Author L. Rea's amino acid product? Well, Author was certainly onto something, but there were several issues which prevented his product from being the best it could be.

For one, despite the amino acid ratio being better than many products of the day, the composition still wasn't ideal, as it was better suited for muscle tissue maintenance. There is a difference between the ideal amino acid ratio for muscle tissue maintenance and protein deposition (i.e., building muscle tissue).

Two, it failed to maximize protein synthesis signaling via inadequate Leucine concentrations.

Three, the overall quantity of EAAs (i.e., building blocks) was too low to maximize muscle growth...and way too low to maximize anti-catabolism (i.e. the prevention of muscle protein breakdown).

Four, it didn't contain additional growth factors, which is not necessary, but it sure is nice.

To my knowledge, ProSynthesis-17 will be the ONLY amino product on the market that contains a massive amount of EAAs (along with additional CEAAs & growth factors) in the ratio necessary for maximizing protein deposition in humans, while simultaneously preventing protein breakdown. Many people forget that anabolism and anti-catabolism are not the same thing...and that both processes can (and are) happening in the body at the same time. Only by maximizing protein synthesis (i.e., anabolism) and preventing protein breakdown (i.e., anti-catabolism) at the SAME TIME can we maximize muscle growth!

Current EEA products contains relatively small amounts of non-BCAA essential amino acids, yet recent research is abundantly clear that large quantities of properly balanced EAAs/protein are necessary for maximizing muscle growth...and they do so (partly) by preventing muscle protein breakdown. This is why studies have shown that consuming 70 grams of protein in one sitting leads to greater growth than 30 grams of protein, even when protein synthesis has been maximized in both groups through the additional consumption of high-dose leucine. In other words, 70 grams of protein is more effective than 30 grams because it is better at inhibiting muscle breakdown.

Most of today's EEA products focus solely on maximizing protein synthesis via the inclusion of large doses of leucine, but this is only part of the equation. If we want to maximize muscle growth, we must maximize protein synthesis AND prevent protein breakdown. Doing this REQUIRES large amounts of Leucine in conjunction with large amounts of the other EEAs.

ProSynthesis-17is the ONLY product (to my knowledge) that does this. Each serving contains not only optimal doses of Leucine (when taking into account competition for absorption with other amino acids), but huge doses of the other 8 EEAs...along with additional CEAAs & growth factors.

Someone might say "so what if I just took 2-3 servings of my normal EEA product?" Even if someone did that, it still would NOT equal the muscle building power of a single serving of ProSynthesis-17. Not even close. Why? Because conventional EEA products are NOT formulated with an efficient amino acid ratio.

Here is the formula of a currently POPULAR EEA product...

Leucine: 3,000 mg
Isoleucine: 1,500 mg
Valine: 1,500 mg
Lysine: 850 mg
Threonine: 850 mg
Phenylalanine: 300 mg
Histidine: 100 mg
Tryptophan: 75 mg
Methionine: 25 mg
TOTAL: 8.2 gm

What does that product look like when you take 3 servings at once?

Leucine: 9,000 mg
Isoleucine: 4,500 mg
Valine: 4,500 mg
Lysine: 2,550 mg
Threonine: 2,550 mg
Phenylalanine: 900 mg
Histidine: 300 mg
Tryptophan: 225 mg
Methionine: 75 mg
TOTAL: 24.6 gm


If you know what you're looking at, you will see that this amino acid ratio is WAYYYYYYY off in terms of amino acid efficiency. In other words, if you took 3 servings of this product (24.6 gm of total aminos), you would end up WASTING the vast majority of it. Most of the aminos could not be used for growth because the ratio is so poor.

For one, the leucine dose is too high. You don't need that much Leucine to maximize protein synthesis even when accounting for competition for absorption between aminos, so much of the leucine is wasted right off the top. Then look at the methionine dose! It is way, WAY too low. Methionine should be dosed at roughly 85% of the isoleucine dose in order to maximize protein deposition in humans. So, with 3 servings of this product containing 4.5 grams of isoleucine, it should also contain roughly 4 grams of methionine, yet it contains only 75 mg! Yes, I said 75 mg! That's 1/53rd of the dose required to balance 4.5 grams of isoleucine. Note: Most companies cut way back on the methionine dose because it interferes with product taste. In other words, taste is prioritized over effectiveness.

In order to understand why this is so VERY IMPORTANT, we need to understand what rate limiting amino acids are and how they impact the body's ability to build muscle. You see, when the body is attempting to build muscle, the "rate limiting amino acid" is the essential amino acid that is depleted first. Once the body depletes even a single EEA, muscle growth stops dead in its tracks. With methionine being included in the above product at only a TINY fraction (1/53rd) of what's needed to balance isoleucine, the vast majority of the EEAs in that product are completely wasted. As soon as methionine "runs out" (which will happen VERY quickly), the body can NOT used ANY of the other EEAs in the product to build muscle. They are completely wasted! Unless you provide the body with additional methionine, you will simply be wasting the MAJORITY of the aminos in this product.

And don't think that methionine is the only issue with this product. Its not. Even if you added the proper amount of methionine, you would then run into the same problem again ("rate limiting") with another amino acid, and then another, and then another, etc. The entire profile is off.

This is why I say that today's EEA products are nothing more than glorified BCAA products. They provide enough leucine to maximize the protein synthesis signal, but because the entire amino ratio is so poor, the body can only use a tiny portion of the other 8 EEAs within the product to actually build muscle. Considering that the EEA dose is not even that high to begin with, this is very problematic. Essentially, the body can only use a tiny dose of the already tiny dose provided. Translation: You get a miniscule dose of usable EEAs.

The Bottom Line: Today's EEA products do a horrible job of preventing muscle breakdown...and of the EEAs they do contain, only a tiny portion can actually be used to build muscle. It's like having a small number of bricks to build a house....and then not having enough mortar to use that small number of bricks. That sucks!

So, even if someone were to double-up or even triple-up the servings of their current EEA product, it would NOT be nearly as effective as ProSyntheis-17. Not only does a single serving of ProSynthesis-17 contain 2.5-3X more EEAs than today's EEA products, but it does so in a ratio that actually allows the body to use all those aminos for muscle growth at near 100% efficiency. This means that a single dose of ProSynthesis-17 is MORE effective than many servings of today's EEA products.

Once we throw in the additional CEAAs & growth factors (all of which were chosen because of their ability to further promote muscle growth), there is no comparison.

ProSynthesis-17...coming soon.

* Numerous scientific references will be provided at product release.
 
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Darkhorse192

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ready to give it a shot when its out, ETA?
 

THEstudent

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Do any of you remember HumaPro, Author L. Rea's amino acid product? Well, Author was certainly onto something, but there were several issues which prevented his product from being the best it could be.

For one, despite the amino acid ratio being better than many products of the day, the composition still wasn't ideal, as it was better suited for muscle tissue maintenance. There is a difference between the ideal amino acid ratio for muscle tissue maintenance and protein deposition (i.e., building muscle tissue).

Two, it failed to maximize protein synthesis signaling via inadequate Leucine concentrations.

Three, the overall quantity of EAAs (i.e., building blocks) was too low to maximize muscle growth...and way too low to maximize anti-catabolism (i.e. the prevention of muscle protein breakdown).

Four, it didn't contain additional growth factors, which is not necessary, but it sure is nice.

To my knowledge, ProSynthesis-17 will be the ONLY amino product on the market that contains a massive amount of EAAs (along with additional CEAAs & growth factors) in the ratio necessary for maximizing protein deposition in humans, while simultaneously preventing protein breakdown. Many people forget that anabolism and anti-catabolism are not the same thing...and that both processes can (and are) happening in the body at the same time. Only by maximizing protein synthesis (i.e., anabolism) and preventing protein breakdown (i.e., anti-catabolism) at the SAME TIME can we maximize muscle growth!

Current EEA products contains relatively small amounts of non-BCAA essential amino acids, yet recent research is abundantly clear that large quantities of properly balanced EAAs/protein are necessary for maximizing muscle growth...and they do so (partly) by preventing muscle protein breakdown. This is why studies have shown that consuming 70 grams of protein in one sitting leads to greater growth than 30 grams of protein, even when protein synthesis has been maximized in both groups through the additional consumption of high-dose leucine. In other words, 70 grams of protein is more effective than 30 grams because it is better at inhibiting muscle breakdown.

Most of today's EEA products focus solely on maximizing protein synthesis via the inclusion of large doses of leucine, but this is only part of the equation. If we want to maximize muscle growth, we must maximize protein synthesis AND prevent protein breakdown. Doing this REQUIRES large amounts of Leucine in conjunction with large amounts of the other EEAs.

ProSynthesis-17is the ONLY product (to my knowledge) that does this. Each serving contains not only optimal doses of Leucine (when taking into account competition for absorption with other amino acids), but huge doses of the other 8 EEAs...along with additional CEAAs & growth factors.

Someone might say "so what if I just took 2-3 servings of my normal EEA product?" Even if someone did that, it still would NOT equal the muscle building power of a single serving of ProSynthesis-17. Not even close. Why? Because conventional EEA products are NOT formulated with an efficient amino acid ratio.

Here is the formula of a currently POPULAR EEA product...

Leucine: 3,000 mg
Isoleucine: 1,500 mg
Valine: 1,500 mg
Lysine: 850 mg
Threonine: 850 mg
Phenylalanine: 300 mg
Histidine: 100 mg
Tryptophan: 75 mg
Methionine: 25 mg
TOTAL: 8.2 gm

What does that product look like when you take 2 1/2 servings at once?

Leucine: 9,000 mg
Isoleucine: 4,500 mg
Valine: 4,500 mg
Lysine: 2,550 mg
Threonine: 2,250 mg
Phenylalanine: 900 mg
Histidine: 300 mg
Tryptophan: 225 mg
Methionine: 75 mg
TOTAL: 24.6 gm


If you know what you're looking at, you will see that this amino acid ratio is WAYYYYYYY off in terms of amino acid efficiency. In other words, if you took 2 1/2 servings of this product (24.6 gm of total aminos), you would end up WASTING the vast majority of it. Most of the aminos could not be used for growth because the ratio is so poor.

For one, the leucine dose is too high. You don't need that much Leucine to maximize protein synthesis even when accounting for competition for absorption between aminos, so much of the leucine is wasted right off the top. Then look at the methionine dose! It is way, WAY too low. Methionine should be dosed at roughly 85% of the isoleucine dose in order to maximize protein deposition in humans. So, with 2 1/2 servings of this product containing 4.5 grams of isoleucine, it should also contain roughly 4 grams of methionine, yet it contains only 75 mg! Yes, I said 75 mg! That's 1/53rd of the dose required to balance 4.5 grams of isoleucine. Note: Most companies cut way back on the methionine dose because it interferes with product taste. In other words, taste is prioritized over effectiveness.

In order to understand why this is so VERY IMPORTANT, we need to understand what rate limiting amino acids are and how they impact the body's ability to build muscle. You see, when the body is attempting to build muscle, the "rate limiting amino acid" is the essential amino acid that is depleted first. Once the body depletes even a single EEA, muscle growth stops dead in its tracks. With methionine being included in the above product at only a TINY fraction (1/53rd) of what's needed to balance isoleucine, the vast majority of the EEAs in that product are completely wasted. As soon as methionine "runs out" (which will happen VERY quickly), the body can NOT used ANY of the other EEAs in the product to build muscle. They are completely wasted! Unless you provide the body with additional methionine, you will simply be wasting the MAJORITY of the aminos in this product.

And don't think that methionine is the only issue with this product. Its not. Even if you added the proper amount of methionine, you would then run into the same problem again ("rate limiting") with another amino acid, and then another, and then another, etc. The entire profile is off.

This is why I say that today's EEA products are nothing more than glorified BCAA products. They provide enough leucine to maximize the protein synthesis signal, but because the entire amino ratio is so poor, the body can only use a tiny portion of the other 8 EEAs within the product to actually build muscle. Considering that the EEA dose is not even that high to begin with, this is very problematic. Essentially, the body can only use a tiny dose of the already tiny dose provided. Translation: You get a miniscule dose of usable EEAs.

The Bottom Line: Today's EEA products do a horrible job of preventing muscle breakdown...and of the EEAs they do contain, only a tiny portion can actually be used to build muscle. It's like having a small number of bricks to build a house....and then not having enough mortar to use that small number of bricks. That sucks!

So, even if someone were to double-up or even triple-up the servings of their current EEA product, it would NOT be nearly as effective as ProSyntheis-17. Not only does a single serving of ProSynthesis-17 contain 2.5-3X more EEAs than today's EEA products, but it does so in a ratio that actually allows the body to use all those aminos for muscle growth at near 100% efficiency. This means that a single dose of ProSynthesis-17 is MORE effective than many servings of today's EEA products.

Once we throw in the additional CEAAs & growth factors (all of which were chosen because of their ability to further promote muscle growth), there is no comparison.

ProSynthesis-17...coming soon.

* Numerous scientific references will be provided at product release.
@Mike Arnold Humapro had a good reputation for flavoring, how difficult will it be to get good flavoring with the massive increase of amino acids that ProSynthesis-17 will have?
 

Mike Arnold

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@Mike Arnold Humapro had a good reputation for flavoring, how difficult will it be to get good flavoring with the massive increase of amino acids that ProSynthesis-17 will have?
I will make it taste as good as I can, but I will NOT make the product less effective just to make it taste better. With ProSynthesis-17 (and MA Labs products, in general), effectiveness is ALWAYS prioritized over taste. I fully realize that some people would prefer to use a less effective, but better tasting product. Those products are available for the people who want them, but this is not a demographic I am catering too. I am catering to the SERIOUS trainer--those who want results above all else.

Therefore, while I can guarantee that the product will certainly taste miles better than unflavored EEA products, it is highly unlikely that it will be ranked among the best-tasting EEA products. In order to achieve that I would have to drastically lower the dose of methionine, as well as the dose of the other sulfur-containing EAAs. That's not gonna happen.

However, for those who want to increase their probability of growing muscle and losing fat as much as possible, use the product as directed. Obviously, people who want to build only lean mass will want to use ProSynthesis-17 without adding any carbs to it, while those who prioritize mass may want to add some easily digestible carbs to it, such as HBCD's, etc. But make no mistake, even without carbs, it will still be HIGHLY effective.

I believe ProSyntheis-17 will be the strongest muscle growth supplement on the planet, outside of SARMs. Why? It activates the most important signaling pathways/genes for muscle growth, such as mTOR, etc....and it does it better than the products specifically designed to activate mTOR....while also providing all the building blocks needed for growth.

As bodybuilders, I think we often overcomplicate things when looking for the next best thing, but I have poured over all the available research, and you know what I found? High dose EAAs, in combination with optimal doses of leucine, still cause the greatest increases in protein synthesis, while also providing the greatest anti-catabolic effect. Translation: EAAs are STILL the KING of muscle growth products, but remember, I am NOT talking about low dose, improperly formulated EAA products used once a day. I am talking about high dose, optimally formulated EEA products used multiple times daily.

In fact, I challenge ANYONE to find a single category of products that has been shown to stimulate greater potential growth than this. It was this realization that ultimately led me to formulate ProSyntheis-17. Just a few months ago I was going to make a standard EEA product that looked very much like all the other EEA products out there, until I realized that NO ONE is taking full advantage of this category of supplements. Why spend money on a bunch of products that MIGHT moderately improve growth, when we already have a product that has been repeatedly PROVEN to activate protein synthesis AND prevent muscle breakdown more effectively than everything else?
 
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Smont

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In my opinion, the flavors just need to be mediocre and I'm happy with it. I hate the extreme sweet or extremely sour stuff on the market these days.

In a pre workout where your just swigging back a shot it's no big deal. But I have a hard time sipping on these over flavored products for a hour or 2 during my workouts.

If it tasted like chalk, but did its job, then I wouldn't care. Flavor is just a bonus
 

Mike Arnold

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In my opinion, the flavors just need to be mediocre and I'm happy with it. I hate the extreme sweet or extremely sour stuff on the market these days.

In a pre workout where your just swigging back a shot it's no big deal. But I have a hard time sipping on these over flavored products for a hour or 2 during my workouts.

If it tasted like chalk, but did its job, then I wouldn't care. Flavor is just a bonus
I agree about products that are overly sweet. I HATE them...and so many are like that. The last two times I used sweeteners in a product, I had the manufacturer cut the sweetness in HALF. ProSynthesis-17 will NOT be overly sweet. I want a product that someone can drink over and over again, multiple times daily, without feeling like they want to gag after one week of use. A product could have the best flavor in the world, but if the sweetness OR favoring is too strong, the palate will tire of it much more quickly. It is the bland foods that we can eat over and over again. They may not taste the best in a single head to head comparison, but when consumed chronically, the human palate prefers less intense flavors.

With that said, I will not make the product bland, but I won't sweeten-flavor it more than necessary to mask the unpleasantness of the sulfur-containing aminos. I think this is important when formulating a product designed to be used over and over again. Like you said, swallowing a 2-4 oz. pre-workout drink a few times a week is completely different than drinking 8-12 oz. of aminos 2-3 times daily.

Note" ProSynthesis-17 is not designed to be "sipped" throughout training. It should just be drank straight down. There's no benefit in gradually drinking it over a 60-90 minute period. In fact, it is better to drink amino products quickly because we want the bloodstream to be flooded with these nutrients at a concentration necessary for causing the greatest degree of protein synthesis and protein breakdown inhibition. This only happens when we are able to activate/suppress the genes and other physiologic processes which regulate muscle growth...and doing this requires the presence of certain ingredients at certain concentrations. For example, taking 10-15iu of insulin in the form of humalog is quite effective at providing the benefits insulin is known for, but that same 10-15iu in the form of Lantus does not produce the same effect because it is released too slowly. EAA products are no different.
 
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Rocket3015

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Interesting information about the Sipping !
 
Ape McGrapes

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@Mike Arnold Can you tell us more about the growth factors?
 
LeanEngineer

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In my opinion, the flavors just need to be mediocre and I'm happy with it. I hate the extreme sweet or extremely sour stuff on the market these days.

In a pre workout where your just swigging back a shot it's no big deal. But I have a hard time sipping on these over flavored products for a hour or 2 during my workouts.

If it tasted like chalk, but did its job, then I wouldn't care. Flavor is just a bonus
Agreed! And you know if it's super sweet they're putting a sh&% ton of artificial sweetner and flavors in there to make it taste soo good which is not good for you!
 

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I started lifting in the 80's nothing tasted good !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Joe Weiders Chalk Flavored Protein Powder ............
Did it at least taste like red chalk? Or one of the worse ones?
 
Rocket3015

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Did it at least taste like red chalk? Or one of the worse ones?
Not sure, I don't think I ever licked all the colors on the rainbow - ROYGBIV 🌈
 
Hyde

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I agree about products that are overly sweet. I HATE them...and so many are like that. The last two times I used sweeteners in a product, I had the manufacturer cut the sweetness in HALF. ProSynthesis-17 will NOT be overly sweet. I want a product that someone can drink over and over again, multiple times daily, without feeling like they want to gag after one week of use. A product could have the best flavor in the world, but if the sweetness OR favoring is too strong, the palate will tire of it much more quickly. It is the bland foods that we can eat over and over again. They may not taste the best in a single head to head comparison, but when consumed chronically, the human palate prefers less intense flavors.

With that said, I will not make the product bland, but I won't sweeten-flavor it more than necessary to mask the unpleasantness of the sulfur-containing aminos. I think this is important when formulating a product designed to be used over and over again. Like you said, swallowing a 2-4 oz. pre-workout drink a few times a week is completely different than drinking 8-12 oz. of aminos 2-3 times daily.

Note" ProSynthesis-17 is not designed to be "sipped" throughout training. It should just be drank straight down. There's no benefit in gradually drinking it over a 60-90 minute period. In fact, it is better to drink amino products quickly because we want the bloodstream to be flooded with these nutrients at a concentration necessary for causing the greatest degree of protein synthesis and protein breakdown inhibition. This only happens when we are able to activate/suppress the genes and other physiologic processes which regulate muscle growth...and doing this requires the presence of certain ingredients at certain concentrations. For example, taking 10-15iu of insulin in the form of humalog is quite effective at providing the benefits insulin is known for, but that same 10-15iu in the form of Lantus does not produce the same effect because it is released too slowly. EAA products are no different.
I’m extremely happy to hear you say all of this. I feel similarly about the rampant over-sweetening of supplements. If I wanted a treat I’d go buy some ice cream; I just need something I can tolerate over and over, and sometimes I don’t want to have to dilute something with twice the recommended fluid because I can’t handle how sweet it is at 5:30am (or make it into a shot to knock it down because it’s so incredibly sweet).
 

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@Mike Arnold Can you tell us more about the growth factors?
Nothing new. Most of them are amino acid based (aside from a few), but they've all been shown to further promote protein synthesis through various mechanisms, such a mTOR.

Actually, I'll just tell you the additional ingredients now. Four of them are Citrulline, Taurine, betaine and AKG. Not AAKG, but just AKG. New research shows that AKG activates mTOR and therefore promotes protein synthesis. Previously, science had no idea that AKG played a direct role in muscle growth. Now we know.

Research shows that betaine stimulates mTOR indirectly by inhibiting the complex responsible for suppressing mTOR. This is the SAMTOR complex. Betaine shuts it down, thereby allowing mTOR to freely do its job.

Regarding taurine, the sports nutrition world used to view it primarily as an osmolyte, but we now know (through a LOT of new research) that taurine actually directly simulates protein synthesis via mTOR signaling.

Citrulline also signals mTOR through multiple pathways.

By combining these 4 ingredients with EAAs at efficacious doses, we can activate mTOR significantly more than EAAs alone. EAAs (in optimal doses) are already very powerful activators of mTOR, so being able to further activate this growth pathway is just icing on the cake

As far as CEAAs go, I added glycine, proline, serine and alanine, as all 4 of these CEAAs also activate mTOR, but that's not all. They also provide several other important benefits directly related to muscle growth. For example, new research shows that the simple addition of alanine to EAAs significantly increases their bioavailability. In other words, it makes the already huge 25 gram dose of EAAs found in ProSynthesis-17 even more effective. This made adding it to the formula a no-brainer.

In regards to serine and glycine, research shows that muscle growth can NOT be maximized without additional exogenous consumption, regardless of the EEA dose. To quote a PubMed study (I'll post links later) "de novo (glycine and serine) synthesis was inadequate to support these demands, making extracellular serine and glycine conditionally essential for efficient skeletal muscle regeneration". In other words, even though the body can make these aminos from EAAs, it does not do so efficiently enough to maximize the growth response.

Obviously, these ingredients provide a lot more benefits than what has been mentioned here (citrulline increases nitric oxide, for example), but I wanted to mention some of the lesser known effects that these ingredients have on the growth process, as revealed by new research.
 

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Agreed! And you know if it's super sweet they're putting a sh&% ton of artificial sweetner and flavors in there to make it taste soo good which is not good for you!
ProSyntheis-17 will have ZERO artificial sweeteners!

Knowing what I know today, I would never consume artificial sweeteners multiple times daily. They are horrible for one's health. I want to be able to use ProSyntheis-17 myself, so formulating it with ONLY natural sweeteners was critical for me. Once other people begin to more fully realize the deleterious effects of artificial sweeteners, they won't want to consume them daily either.
 
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All sounds so good mike .. cant wait to see the product.

Hopefully a 30 serving tub :)
 

Mike Arnold

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All sounds so good mike .. cant wait to see the product.

Hopefully a 30 serving tub :)
I had to make it 25 servings to avoid higher shipping costs (it's already a huge container; pounds), but the price will be right. :) I don't play marketing games, such as reducing the servings without a reflection in price. It will be a better deal than all other EEA products.
 
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I had to make it 25 servings to avoid higher shipping costs (it's already a huge container; pounds), but the price will be right. :) I don't play marketing games, such as reducing the servings without a reflection in price. It will be a better deal than all other EEA products.
ahh i see .. yeah gotta be heavy as shyt lol
25 works - i just cant stand 16-20servings one .. like who the F worksout 4-5x a week ?

not AM members lol
 
Hyde

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ahh i see .. yeah gotta be heavy as shyt lol
25 works - i just cant stand 16-20servings one .. like who the F worksout 4-5x a week ?

not AM members lol
Bro I only train 4x a week. I made my biggest squat and deadlift on 3x

But regarding servings, I feel what really matters is that the price per serving is acceptable/doable. I mean if it’s a staple to me, whether it’s a 10 serving tub or 100-serving 20lb cement bag, I’m still going to buy as much as it takes to meet my needs.
 
Rocket3015

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Take My Money !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤑
 
Smont

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I had to make it 25 servings to avoid higher shipping costs (it's already a huge container; pounds), but the price will be right. :) I don't play marketing games, such as reducing the servings without a reflection in price. It will be a better deal than all other EEA products.
Seeing the amount of aminos in the product, 1 serving is like 50 fykin servings of your standard amino product lol, so 25 sounds good to me 👍
 

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Bro I only train 4x a week. I made my biggest squat and deadlift on 3x

But regarding servings, I feel what really matters is that the price per serving is acceptable/doable. I mean if it’s a staple to me, whether it’s a 10 serving tub or 100-serving 20lb cement bag, I’m still going to buy as much as it takes to meet my needs.
Exactly. It's about value. A lot of pre-workout products on the market today will list the product as being 20-40 servings, but the 40 serving size is really only half of an effective dose. Unfortunately, some are easily fooled by marketing and will buy a product based on trickery.
 

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Seeing the amount of aminos in the product, 1 serving is like 50 fykin servings of your standard amino product lol, so 25 sounds good to me 👍
Since I put up the first thread about ProSynthesis-17, I decided to increase the dose of CEAAs & growth factors from 6 grams to 10 grams! :) So, the total amount of aminos (+ growth factors) just went up to 35-36 grams per serving! :)
 

Garyboy

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Mike, is ProSynthesis-17 beneficial to take post workout? Seeing the inclusion of citrulline leads me to believe this will be marketed as a pre workout product. Thanks. Sounds like a great formula.
 

Mike Arnold

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Mike, is ProSynthesis-17 beneficial to take post workout? Seeing the inclusion of citrulline leads me to believe this will be marketed as a pre workout product. Thanks. Sounds like a great formula.
Thank you. :)

I prefer pre-training simply because research shows that consuming EAAs/protein before training leads to a greater uptake in amino acids compared to post-training.

Citrulline is not only beneficial for nitric oxide production. It also increases protein synthesis, which is the primary reason it has been added to be product. Depending on the results desired, ProSyntheis-17 should be used 1-3X daily. Ideal times to use the product are shortly after waking up in the morning (at least 30 minutes before consuming any whole food), pre-training and immediately before bed.
 
TheMrMuscle

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@Mike Arnold what are your thoughts on something like a hydrolyzed casein (PeptoPro) compared to a solid EAA product like this in the peri workout window?
 
LeanEngineer

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ProSyntheis-17 will have ZERO artificial sweeteners!

Knowing what I know today, I would never consume artificial sweeteners multiple times daily. They are horrible for one's health. I want to be able to use ProSyntheis-17 myself, so formulating it with ONLY natural sweeteners was critical for me. Once other people begin to more fully realize the deleterious effects of artificial sweeteners, they won't want to consume them daily either.
Glad to hear that! I would sacrifice a taste to have only natural sweeteners personally!
 

Jeremyk1

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@Mike Arnold what are your thoughts on something like a hydrolyzed casein (PeptoPro) compared to a solid EAA product like this in the peri workout window?
I’ve always wondered this. There’s so much back and forth on whether single aminos or peptides are better.
 

Mike Arnold

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@Mike Arnold what are your thoughts on something like a hydrolyzed casein (PeptoPro) compared to a solid EAA product like this in the peri workout window?
Pro-Synthesis-17 is still much better. The only difference between something like PeptoPro and other proteins is that it digests faster. It doesn't have any other benefits which differentiate it from the rest of the protein powders on the market. It's just hydrolyzed casein...and it's not even micellar. It's actually caseinate, which is a lower quality form of casein. In fact, most products today won't even put caseinate in their protein powder as part of a blend...and NO ONE ever sells it solo...because it sucks in comparison to higher quality form of casein. Literally, the only thing which differentiates PeptoPro from regular caseinate is that it has been hydrolyzed for more rapid digestion.

With said, PeptoPro would still likely be better than non-hydrolyzed proteins during the training window simply because it is less taxing to the digestive tract. Having food (or protein powders) in your stomach during training actually leads to impaired performance; mostly by decreasing blood flow to working muscles.

ProSynthesis-17 has a bunch of benefits PeptoPro does not. AND...it's way more cost-effective. PeptoPro is very expensive for what you get.

I'm not trying to bash the product, as I actually like hydrolyzed casein, but it's not the same thing as ProSynthesis-17.
 

Mike Arnold

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I’ve always wondered this. There’s so much back and forth on whether single aminos or peptides are better.
According to resent research, it appears EEAs are superior....and they are absolutely superior when compared on a gram to gram basis. You see, all protein food/powders contain a whole LOT of aminos which are NOT EAAs. This is why 6 grams of EAAs were shown to stimulate protein synthesis as efficiently as roughly 30 grams of whey protein. For example, you would need to consume about 70 grams of beef protein to get the same amount of EAAs found in 25 grams of pure EAAs.

Furthermore, ProSynthesis-17 has been formulated with a much more efficient EAA ratio than beef, so that 25/70 equivalence comparison I just mentioned isn't actually accurate. In reality, you would need MORE than 70 grams of beef protein to provide the same benefit as 25 grams of EAAs found in ProSynthesis-17.

Of course, PoSynthesis-17 also contains an additional 10 grams of CEEAs & growth factors.
 
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Hyde

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Ideal times to use the product are shortly after waking up in the morning (at least 30 minutes before consuming any whole food), pre-training and immediately before bed.
So in my explicit early morning training scenario, I am eating a Cliffbar or similar assortment of largely simple/processed carbohydrate & low fat (10g) about 30 minutes preWO.

Would it be more ideal to drink your product:

A) 30 min prior to the food
B) 30 minutes post food (which is immediately before training)
 
BigGame84

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Thank you. :)

I prefer pre-training simply because research shows that consuming EAAs/protein before training leads to a greater uptake in amino acids compared to post-training.

Citrulline is not only beneficial for nitric oxide production. It also increases protein synthesis, which is the primary reason it has been added to be product. Depending on the results desired, ProSyntheis-17 should be used 1-3X daily. Ideal times to use the product are shortly after waking up in the morning (at least 30 minutes before consuming any whole food), pre-training and immediately before bed.
So why don't most pre-workouts (caffeine) contain aminos? I know there's some, but really not many.
 

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So why don't most pre-workouts (caffeine) contain aminos? I know there's some, but really not many.
Because the research was a bit muddy and there definitely was short period of time when products came out to follow this trend (in the early 2000s?), but they didn't really stick. Honestly at the time people were barely just jumping on the amino acid train with things like Scivation Xtend so it was maybe "too soon" to convince people to slam some EAAs pre versus some Whey post.

FWIW this product does sound interesting. The whole pixie dusting of EAAs (like s 6g "EAA" that is 5g BCAA, blah) and using like 25mg of Methionine in a formula have been some minor pet peeves of mine.
 
JohnnieFreeze

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I hate all of those super sweet drinks especially when they use stevia. Over masking the original taste is way worse.
 

Mike Arnold

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So why don't most pre-workouts (caffeine) contain aminos? I know there's some, but really not many.
Adding an effective amount of aminos increases product cost substantially. :)
 

Mike Arnold

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Because the research was a bit muddy and there definitely was short period of time when products came out to follow this trend (in the early 2000s?), but they didn't really stick. Honestly at the time people were barely just jumping on the amino acid train with things like Scivation Xtend so it was maybe "too soon" to convince people to slam some EAAs pre versus some Whey post.

FWIW this product does sound interesting. The whole pixie dusting of EAAs (like s 6g "EAA" that is 5g BCAA, blah) and using like 25mg of Methionine in a formula have been some minor pet peeves of mine.
I couldn't agree more. Even the 10 gram EAA products typically contain 7-7.5 gm BCAAs. That doesn't leave much room for the other 6 EAAs. People get duped all the time. Is it better to have a small amount of those 6 EAAs compared to none at all? Sure, but many people don't stop to think how small the dose actually is. 2-3 grams (3 grams at the most) and sometime even less than 2 grams. That's not much. The body can't synthesize very much tissue with only a couple grams.

This is why I say that today's EEA products are nothing more than "Glorified BCAA products"...because that's exactly what they are.

This is also where ProSynthesis-17 differs dramatically from the competition. The 25 gram dos of EEAs is not just a massive pile of BCAAs. Nope. Certainly, I have plenty of leucine in there because we need that amino in large doses in order to maximize the protein synthesis signal, but the product also contains a ton of the other 8 EAAs in the proper ratio required for BUILDING muscle tissue in the most efficient manner possible. Efficiency is extremely important...because it determines how many aminos the body can actually use to build muscle. Products with low efficiency ratings (most of them) can only use a portion of the aminos they provide to actually build muscle tissue.

Pro-Synthesis-17 also provides the NECESSARY priming amino acids. What are "priming" aminos acids? As we all know, mTOR is one of the major regulator of muscle growth in mammals. We also know that, out of the 9 EAAs, leucine is the major amino responsible for activating mTOR (and therefore, protein synthesis) . However, what most people don't know is that Leucine is NOT ABLE to activate mTOR unless it is first "primed".

I am going to post this new research soon, showing how the body requires both "priming" and "activating" aminos in order to turn on mTOR. This is important...because almost no products contain ANY of the priming amino acids (serine, for example) necessary for leucine to actually turn on protein synthesis. If priming doesn't first take place, no amount of leucine is able to turn on the protein synthesis signal. Once this research is understood by other companies, you will see them start to include one of more of these aminos.
 

Mike Arnold

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So in my explicit early morning training scenario, I am eating a Cliffbar or similar assortment of largely simple/processed carbohydrate & low fat (10g) about 30 minutes preWO.

Would it be more ideal to drink your product:

A) 30 min prior to the food
B) 30 minutes post food (which is immediately before training)
Drink Pro-Synthesis-17 first. You want to initiate full-blast anabolism and stop catabolism in its tracks as soon as possible. You could also just add some liquid simple carbs to ProSynthesis-17...if you want. Those would digest even faster than a cliffbar
 
BigGame84

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Adding an effective amount of aminos increases product cost substantially. :)
So thinking out loud here. Can you come up with a flavor that could mix with Collision Course?

In the meantime, thinking of adding bulk leucine powder and bulk Mediator phospatidic acid powder to Collision Course.
 

Jeremyk1

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Drink Pro-Synthesis-17 first. You want to initiate full-blast anabolism and stop catabolism in its tracks as soon as possible. You could also just add some liquid simple carbs to ProSynthesis-17...if you want. Those would digest even faster than a cliffbar
Would you expect much difference between chugging all at once or spread over 30-60 minutes. I sometimes struggle to drink so much early in the morning.
 

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I guess I’m truly the only one that likes my sweetners artificial and (fake) sweet!

I also usually add a drop of flavor to pretty much any powdered product. Humapro I specifically remember was quite hard to mask the flavor, but their base flavors (kiwi strawberry and maybe an apple one?) were also not my favorites to start with
 

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