Proper Ornithine dosage

[Sculptor]

Ok so I bought some ornithine hcl after hearing other members rave about its synergistic effects when combined with caffeine.
I know ornithine has other benefits as well but my main goal is to use it for mood improvement and a nice addition to my daily stim/not stack.
After toying around with dosages I can not seem to pin the right one down. Examine says to use upwards of 4-6grams where as Antaeus PSYche uses 400 mg I think?
I tried 1-2gram sized dosages in the morning at first and I seemed to experience brain fog and too much calm. I then tried dosing this amount before bed as I read several studies showing it helps with sleep. I figured it could then have next day effects, similar to ashwaghanda.
Now I am trying much smaller doses like 400-500mg in the morning with caff and still can't seem to experience this "synergy" that so many have talked about.

Help me out.

Btw I currently use a simple caffeine source in the morning or a pre workout if I'm lifting before work. I also use DLPA, ashwaghanda (ksm66), and magnesium before bed. I'm incredibly stim tolerant. Yes, I'm one of those guys that loves dmaa and the like.

Thanks in advance

 

[muscleupcrohn]

The study I frequently reference used 100mg caffeine and 250mg o HCL.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

The study I frequently reference used 100mg caffeine and 250mg ornithine HCL

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4287333/

Perhaps try 250mg ornithine HCL with your caffeine (what I do), or try keeping the he same ratio of 100:250mg, see what works.

Another interesting read:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/20094641/

 

[Pec.Major]

Muscleupcrohn,

What have you noticed for kind of effects with regular use of ornithine HCL? Better mood, focus and sleep?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Muscleupcrohn,

What have you noticed for kind of effects with regular use of ornithine HCL? Better mood, focus and sleep?

Well, it's sort of subtle, but since I've been taking caffeine without ornithine lately, I've noticed that I don't seem to "crash" as much with ornithine, and I feel awake and I energized for longer with ornithine. I also like taking it when I take DMAA; I get energy for hours, but it's clean and no "crash."

 

[Pec.Major]

Well, it's sort of subtle, but since I've been taking caffeine without ornithine lately, I've noticed that I don't seem to "crash" as much with ornithine, and I feel awake and I energized for longer with ornithine. I also like taking it when I take DMAA; I get energy for hours, but it's clean and no "crash."

Okey. Ornithine seems like a product that is worth trying.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Okey. Ornithine seems like a product that is worth trying.

If you buy it in bulk it's dirt cheap. May as well, haha.

 

[Sculptor]

I really appreciate the responses muscleupcrohn. I believe you were the first person I read about using this stack.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I really appreciate the responses muscleupcrohn. I believe you were the first person I read about using this stack.

Thanks for the thanks

Keep me updated with how it works for you

 

[Dalmore]

Interesting, didn't know that Ornithin was taken as a nootropic. I take it to potentially increase sleep quality:

Nutr J. 2014 Jun 3;13:53. doi: 10.1186/1475-2891-13-53.
Randomised controlled trial of the effects of L-ornithine on stress markers and sleep quality in healthy workers.
Miyake M1, Kirisako T, Kokubo T, Miura Y, Mori****a K, Okamura H, Tsuda A.
RESULTS:
Serum cortisol levels and the cortisol/DHEA-S ratio were significantly decreased in the L-ornithine group in comparison with the placebo group. Also, anger was reduced and perceived sleep quality was improved in the L-ornithine group.
CONCLUSION:
L-ornithine supplementation has the potential to relieve stress and improve sleep quality related to fatigue, both objectively and subjectively.

 

[Sculptor]

Interesting, didn't know that Ornithin was taken as a nootropic. I take it to potentially increase sleep quality:

How do you dose it for sleep? When I tried I found I got less deep sleep

 

[Sculptor]

Also an update: I've found about 300-400mg is a good dose with caffeine in the am. Any more and I'm foggy and anti social

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Also an update: I've found about 300-400mg is a good dose with caffeine in the am. Any more and I'm foggy and anti social

Nice. Is that 300-400mg ornithine HCL or of ornithine from ornithine HCL? I think that there's 200mg ornithine in 250mg ornithine HCL.

How much caffeine are you taking it with?

 

[Sculptor]

Nice. Is that 300-400mg ornithine HCL or of ornithine from ornithine HCL? I think that there's 200mg ornithine in 250mg ornithine HCL.

How much caffeine are you taking it with?

That is of ornithine hcl so 300mg ornithine roughly

 

[Dalmore]

How do you dose it for sleep? When I tried I found I got less deep sleep

500mg. Why do you think that? Got more dreams, woke up tired?

 

[Sculptor]

500mg. Why do you think that? Got more dreams, woke up tired?

I felt like I wasn't getting into deep sleep. I would wake up feeling very unrested. While I haven't been using it a night regularly, I have found that very much like my morning dose, less is definitely more. If I use around 400mg at night my sleep doesn't seem to impacted and I'm hopefully getting the benefits.