Primo / Dbol / Var Cycle? Worth it?

[Harishusain]

Hey guys! Finally planning on joining the world of the enhanced after much thought and research.

90kg, 6'0 at 12% BF. Diet and training dialled in, lifts are not crazy but decent IMO; Squat 150kg, Bench 140kg, Deadlift 200kg.

I was looking to do an oral only cycle, starting at 10-15mg Dbol ED and tapering up to 30 as required, and 75-100mg Primo Acetate tapering up to 150 (also as required). Cycle length would be 10-12 weeks.

Primo dose is a little high, I know. This is to compensate for low oral bioavaility. I believe its about 50%, whereas injectible is around 70% if I'm not wrong. I'd be getting ~350mgs per week at 100mg acetate ED.

Also thinking of adding in Var or low dose Winny or Sdrol in the last four weeks.

What do you guys think? Your input is always appreciated, thank you in advance!

 

[Mathb33]

It’s not a great idea but it will work. It’s going to stress your organs 150x more than a test cycle would. It’s also going to leave you miserable without energy and libido because your testosterone will be shutdown completely and you have nothing to replace it. By week 6-7 you’ll feel like a zombie.

All of that apart… they are anabolics so yes it’ll work. Orals don’t work as good as what you read on forums. If you eat properly and enough to grow, you could add as much as 20-25 lbs on your frame but on a Timeframe of 10-12 weeks you’re lucky if 3-4 lbs of all that is muscle. Dbol will blow you up or water and glycogen but none of that will stick around when you stop. If you’re okay gaining 20 lbs and retaining 3-4… then it’s okay. After all, 3 lbs of muscle in 3 months is excellent. Most people on cycle don’t manage that.

 

[Smont]

My thoughts...

Is it worth it? What does that even mean. If something is "worth it" to you will only apply to you.

Questions, why not just use testosterone. Run a couple hundred mgs of test and see what happens.

If you wanna run orals on your first cycle I would pick something anavar or tbol because they have less side effects, but regardless of what I choose there would be testosterone in the mix at 300-400mg

 

[Harishusain]

Thanks guys! Would Jatenzo or Tlando be OK to use as a test base?

 

[Smont]

Thanks guys! Would Jatenzo or Tlando be OK to use as a test base?

If I'm not mistaken those are oral testosterone and oral testosterone is absolute trash

 

[Smont]

Wait, are you trying to use only orals? Because if so then your not going to have a "test base" only testosterone is a test base.

Dbol will work for some ppl as a "test base", that phrase really needs to die.

Oral primo I've always been told sucks but I got no first hand experience at that

 

[Mikereyn513]

Wait, are you trying to use only orals? Because if so then your not going to have a "test base" only testosterone is a test base.

Dbol will work for some ppl as a "test base", that phrase really needs to die.

Oral primo I've always been told sucks but I got no first hand experience at that

I love how all these " oral only " guys say they've done tons and tons of research and this is what they've come up with. Granted this one isn't too bad all things considered but if you guys really did your research and I mean really did it you would either pin or realize the dark side of the force is not in you btw there's nothing wrong with that

 

[Mathb33]

There’s nothing worse than going through a day with 0 testosterone in you. I don’t know why anyone would put themselves through that just out of fear of injecting. Especially since orals are way more toxic than a test cycle.

 

[Rad83]

Better off with 8 weeks of 1 and 4 andro, with epiandro pre workout

 

[Smont]

If I could never inject testosterone again I would use 10mg of dbol with 15mg of rad 140 and 300-450mg of transdermal epiandro as the base of my cycles. Then I would add 1 extra compound to go with it.

But since I can use testosterone il skip all that jazz and just use testosterone lol

 

[Rad83]

I wouldn’t even trust a guy willing to sell you all that gear without the test

 

[Harishusain]

As I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong but Dbol should have enough estrogenic activity to not need test in the mix?

Have run 1 and Epi Andro in the past but didn't get much out of it to be honest!

I would even go over a gram primo acetate if required. I wanted to do orals because they kick in and leave the system quicker, so I can gauge how I respond to the compound before considering injectibles. Also, I've heard primo inj have terrible pip.

 

[Harishusain]

My goal would be to add a few kilos of retainable muscle over 3 months and tighten up. What would you guys recommend as an oral only cycle?

 

[Smont]

My goal would be to add a few kilos of retainable muscle over 3 months and tighten up. What would you guys recommend as an oral only cycle?

"Retainable" you are not going to keep the muscle steroids built without steroids, at least not long term. Your also probably not going to build kilos of muscle while getting leaner at the same time.

You will probably add a couple kilos and if diet is on point maintain whatever bodyfat% you are, during PCT your gonna loose the fluid weight and glycogen stores and whatever is left is what your going to be struggling to maintain and slowly loose until the next cycle starts. That's just the reality of cycling and coming off. You can only temporarily hold on to that muscle that steroids built without steroids in your system.

No1 here really reccomens oral only cycles. if your gonna do it anyway then dbol is the one I'd choose at low doses, >25mg just because dbol does work as a form of hormone replacement therapy. It's used at 5mg a day I think for hrt. I'd stack it with a dht but I don't know jack about oral primo, I don't know a single guy that uses oral primo, only females.

Maybe something like 25 dbol/25 anavar for 8 weeks. I can see that being tolerable. Maybe running 30mg of raloxefine through the cycle to block estrogen at the breast tissue and then swapping out raloxefine for nolva in pct

 

[Smont]

You don't "need" test, you don't "need" anything, there are zero rules to using steroids.

But, there are good ideas and bad ideas, typically no testosterone is a bad idea because your probably gonna feel crappy and may run into sexual side effects, typically running orals for more then 4-6 weeks is a bad idea because it puts a beating on your health markers and typically stacking a bunch of stuff you have not ever used before is a bad idea because if you start getting side effects you won't know which drug is causing the problem

 

[klbsa]

So the question has to be answered……. What is keeping you from just using injections? I realize that some people have irrational fear of needles but after you do your first shot you will shrug your shoulders and say “Huh, WTF was I so scared of?” Stubbing your toe is 1000 times more painful than even an 18g 3cc pinning is.

The oral availability of test capsules is around 5% on average so you would need to eat $5000 worth of them a month to get any real benefit.

You could do your oral cycle but I would keep it down to 4 weeks….. 6 weeks at most. After 6 weeks you will be miserable mentally once the dbol stops working the way you want it to. In fact you’re better off spreading that 12 weeks into 3 cycles separated by periods of 6 months or more…… Just my 2 cents from an old man who has done a dozen oral only cycles in his life.

 

[Jinsun]

Hey guys! Finally planning on joining the world of the enhanced after much thought and research.

...

Cycle length would be 10-12 weeks.

Clearly, your definition of "much thought" and "research" is widely different then ours.

Also, wtf is wrong with transdermal testosterone? If I was doing a non injectable cycle, transdermal test would be in there for sure. Why, give me one good reason, why you wouldn't include that in your 12 week cycle? You can also do just a transdermal test only cycle if we're already using it ... Using multiple compounds for a first cycle is moronic btw.

Secondly, as orals are not only harsh on the liver but also on the digestive tract, causing stuff like ibs for instance .... if planning for a 12 week cycle, then at least order oral raw's and either dissolve them in dmso and use them as transdermal, avoiding first pass liver metabolism and avoiding gut dysbiosis and other gut issues, or just using them sublingual!?? And if you are already ordering raws, order test base and make you own solution instead of paying for an already made product.

 

[Jinsun]

*You can use Testogel, that preparation has a 2 day serum half life. Making for an easy non injectable test cycle.

 

[Mathb33]

As I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong but Dbol should have enough estrogenic activity to not need test in the mix?

Have run 1 and Epi Andro in the past but didn't get much out of it to be honest!

I would even go over a gram primo acetate if required. I wanted to do orals because they kick in and leave the system quicker, so I can gauge how I respond to the compound before considering injectibles. Also, I've heard primo inj have terrible pip.

You mentionned doing extensive researches but this thread show you have very limited knowledge unfortunately brother… what does dbol being highly estrogenic have anything to do with needing test or not?
The point is your body is currently producing testosterone, as soon as you’re ingesting / injecting anything that’s anabolic.. you will slowly but surely completely shut down that natural production (over the course of a couple weeks) and your testosterone count will be 0. Energy,focus,sleep will be highly affected as you can imagine. You will feel like someone that’s got 2 weeks left to live. It is simply a silly idea.

 

[BBiceps]

If I was dead set on no injections I would use Test gel or cream and then do 1 oral, doing 3 orals at the same time sounds like asking for trouble, especially for 12 weeks.

 

[G34RS]

Because primo and anavar are often faked, and of questionable quality, this probably wouldn’t be worth it based on that unless you’ve somehow got a very, very good source. Test e and c will probably give you better results, is cheaper, and less likely to be fake.

 

[Mikereyn513]

If I was dead set on no injections I would use Test gel or cream and then do 1 oral, doing 3 orals at the same time sounds like asking for trouble, especially for 12 weeks.

If I was dead set on doing no injections then I would be dead set on not doing gear

 

[Jinsun]

Because primo and anavar are often faked, and of questionable quality, this probably wouldn’t be worth it based on that unless you’ve somehow got a very, very good source. Test e and c will probably give you better results, is cheaper, and less likely to be fake.

Not anymore, no, not really.

 

[Smont]

Not anymore, no, not really.

Luckily this is true, even tho primo and var are the most likely to be fake, there are a ton of good sources selling real stuff at reasonable prices. Ive had ppl hit me up after testing multiple primo sources and they all have been legit lately

 

[Harishusain]

I'm not dead set on no needles; but with a shorter half life of the orals I'd be able to get a feel of how my body responds first before getting stuck with sides for 7-10 days from an injectible from the get go.

Also since I would be starting with a low dose I probably wouldn't go through a whole vial in one go, so bacteria accumulation while it sits for a whole week or so does also concern me.

Having said that, I'm not a huge fan of needles either. But wondering if there's any advice you could offer if I was to start pinning to make sure I do it right?

 

[Harishusain]

I don't quite understand why a slow consistent gain of muscle would be a struggle to maintain though, assuming I eat adequately and have proper PCT.

What would you guys suggest then as a better alternative cycle to meet my goals?

Thank you again, everyone who has replied. So glad I have a community I can turn to for help

 

[Mathb33]

I don't quite understand why a slow consistent gain of muscle would be a struggle to maintain though, assuming I eat adequately and have proper PCT.

What would you guys suggest then as a better alternative cycle to meet my goals?

Thank you again, everyone who has replied. So glad I have a community I can turn to for help

A slow and steady gain of muscle means 6-10 months. Not 10-12 weeks. That’s like a fart

 

[Jinsun]

I'm not dead set on no needles; but with a shorter half life of the orals I'd be able to get a feel of how my body responds first before getting stuck with sides for 7-10 days from an injectible from the get go.

Also since I would be starting with a low dose I probably wouldn't go through a whole vial in one go, so bacteria accumulation while it sits for a whole week or so does also concern me.

Having said that, I'm not a huge fan of needles either. But wondering if there's any advice you could offer if I was to start pinning to make sure I do it right?

Doesn't sound like you've read the comments for real. Again, you can use transdermal test. The normal transdermal test has a HL of something like 16h. While the Testogel (R) has a two day HL.

Bacteria accumulation from a week? What are you on about? Vials can, and are, used far longer then that.

And not to mention, you can get mostly all the aas in an acetate, proprionate ester, ... those have a HL of 1 day.

 

[BBiceps]

Doesn't sound like you've read the comments for real. Again, you can use transdermal test. The normal transdermal test has a HL of something like 16h. While the Testogel (R) has a two day HL.

Bacteria accumulation from a week? What are you on about? Vials can, and are, used far longer then that.

And not to mention, you can get mostly all the aas in an acetate, proprionate ester, ... those have a HL of 1 day.

^This^

 

[gphagan1]

I'm not dead set on no needles; but with a shorter half life of the orals I'd be able to get a feel of how my body responds first before getting stuck with sides for 7-10 days from an injectible from the get go.

Also since I would be starting with a low dose I probably wouldn't go through a whole vial in one go, so bacteria accumulation while it sits for a whole week or so does also concern me.

Having said that, I'm not a huge fan of needles either. But wondering if there's any advice you could offer if I was to start pinning to make sure I do it right?

If your not deadset against needles, then I guarantee you injectable Test and Primo would be much more enjoyable, keepable gains, and virtually side free.
You could go…….
Test E or C 300-400 a week for 12 weeks
Primo 300-400 a week for 12 weeks
Maybe finish with Anavar 50 a day last 4 weeks.
Better results, less sides, more enjoyable.

 

[Smont]

I don't quite understand why a slow consistent gain of muscle would be a struggle to maintain though, assuming I eat adequately and have proper PCT.

What would you guys suggest then as a better alternative cycle to meet my goals?

Thank you again, everyone who has replied. So glad I have a community I can turn to for help

You didn't say anything about slow consistent gains. Your talking about gaining kilos of muscle while dropping bodyfat at the same time.

Also, I don't understand why you or anyone else would think that the speed you build muscle at has anything to do with how long you can maintain muscle.

Muscle is muscle, if you built 100lbs of muscle tissue in 10 days or 10 years it's still the exact same amount of muscle tissue.

I know that example is extreme and rediculous but my point is that there's not a more keepable kind of muscle. If gains vanish over night it was not muscle, it was bloat and fuel storage.

The actual muscle that's built in 8-12 weeks is minimal most of the time and yes you can maintain it temporarily. But over the course of weeks and months you will loose it because it's a unnatural amount of muscle that was built on unnaturally high levels of hormones and artificial hormones and without those hormones your natural hormones cannot maintain that mass. You can maintain the weight, but not the muscle.

The amount you build on cycle varies from person to person and the amount you can maintain varies from person to person.

There's no 100% answer to any of this other then you can't keep it forever without the hormones in your system

 

[G34RS]

Luckily this is true, even tho primo and var are the most likely to be fake, there are a ton of good sources selling real stuff at reasonable prices. Ive had ppl hit me up after testing multiple primo sources and they all have been legit lately

Is this a more recent thing? Last I looked into primo was a couple years ago.

 

[Smont]

Is this a more recent thing? Last I looked into primo was a couple years ago.

Ive noticed it within the past year maybe

 

[Smont]

 

[Smont]

 

[Smont]

Is this a more recent thing? Last I looked into primo was a couple years ago.

The internet has made getting fake drugs very common but it's also made companies/ugl realize that if they put out bunk shyt that everyone is going to find out fast. So none of the ugl with good reps are going to risk that reputation. A couple bunk batches of primo go out and word gets around and now they just lost a million dollars in repeat customers that went somewhere else

 

[Smont]

Imagine if we were a open source sharing forum and one of our sponcers started putting out fake stuff, the whole board would know within a few weeks, then all those ppl tell there friends about it and within a few months your company is in the trash and your broke or moving on to the next place looking to scam ppl.

 

[G34RS]

The internet has made getting fake drugs very common but it's also made companies/ugl realize that if they put out bunk shyt that everyone is going to find out fast. So none of the ugl with good reps are going to risk that reputation. A couple bunk batches of primo go out and word gets around and now they just lost a million dollars in repeat customers that went somewhere else

True. I did recently see someone who had a good rep drop their primo purity by 30% for one batch and it didn’t to over well when it was caught.

 

[Hyde]

Primo ace tabs aren’t even really a good chick drug. It’s that weak. My wife added some for a month one time and we legitimately could not tell a difference on any level. Sure it could have been bunk, but the pharm packaging was very well faked if so.

Meanwhile adding just 120mg primo e to my last cruise made a huge and obvious difference, great stuff.

If you want to do a baby oral cycle to test the waters, just take something like Var or Tbol for 4-6 weeks, see if you like the vibe. If you do, get some testosterone e or cyp and just do a proper cycle. It will be healthier and more productive by far in the long run.

 

[Harishusain]

What is topical test absorption like?
I could do 1ML ED (@50mg/ml) for a total of 350 a week, but how much test would I actually be absorbing?

 

[Smont]

What is topical test absorption like?
I could do 1ML ED (@50mg/ml) for a total of 350 a week, but how much test would I actually be absorbing?

Ya but there's a limit to what you can make use of. There's no amount of transdermal testosterone you can rub on yourself to match the results of injecting 350mg of test. But you can definitely get your testosterone above the natural range and keep it there while making use of something like anavar or tbol @30ish mg a day as kind of a get your feet wet cycle

 

[Jinsun]

What is topical test absorption like?
I could do 1ML ED (@50mg/ml) for a total of 350 a week, but how much test would I actually be absorbing?

You have lots of studies done with either normal transdermal test or with testogel. Do some research your self. Go to google schoolar, search transdermal testosterone and find the studies and look at the f*king graphs.

@Smont what makes you think you can't absorb larger quantities of TD test?

 

[Smont]

You have lots of studies done with either normal transdermal test or with testogel. Do some research your self. Go to google schoolar, search transdermal testosterone and find the studies and look at the f*king graphs.

@Smont what makes you think you can't absorb larger quantities of TD test?

I never said you can't absorb large quantities of transdermal test, what I'm saying is transdermal application has limits to how high you can get your testosterone levels and injectable testosterone dosent. I might be wrong but I have never seen bloodwork or even ever heard of someone getting there testosterone levels up in the 3000+ range on transdermal testosterone. My buddy actually tried 7x is trt dose in transdermal testosterone and couldn't get he's levels over 1500. He literally took his entire weeks dose daily for a month and couldn't get it past 1500 when his normal dose had him in the 600's, he was even using stuff that was supposed to increase the absorbing and applying multiple times a day, il shoot him a message and see what his actual dose was vs. The test numbers

 

[Smont]

You have lots of studies done with either normal transdermal test or with testogel. Do some research your self. Go to google schoolar, search transdermal testosterone and find the studies and look at the f*king graphs.

@Smont what makes you think you can't absorb larger quantities of TD test?

And where have you been hiding lol, I haven't seen you post in forever!

 

[Jinsun]

I never said you can't absorb large quantities of transdermal test, what I'm saying is transdermal application has limits to how high you can get your testosterone levels and injectable testosterone dosent. I might be wrong but I have never seen bloodwork or even ever heard of someone getting there testosterone levels up in the 3000+ range on transdermal testosterone. My buddy actually tried 7x is trt dose in transdermal testosterone and couldn't get he's levels over 1500. He literally took his entire weeks dose daily for a month and couldn't get it past 1500 when his normal dose had him in the 600's, he was even using stuff that was supposed to increase the absorbing and applying multiple times a day, il shoot him a message and see what his actual dose was vs. The test numbers

Interesting. While TD test isn't really used for cycling that much, I wouldn't necessarily think one couldn't get his levels high above the baseline. I remember looking at some graphs from a Testogel study, and with a relatively small dosage, the participants had around 2500 ngdl levels, if I remember correctly. I imagine one would have to apply it on multiple body areas. But in any case, it's enough for a test base.

 

[Jinsun]

And where have you been hiding lol, I haven't seen you post in forever!

Idk, been mostly hanging on meso I guess, which is more of a source board and less noobs (with less I mean none) taking prohormones discussions, but I've also fallen into neurohacking circles. Focusing a lot more on improving cognition. Going through pct right now, but keeping 2iu's of gh, which is helping a lot.

 

[Smont]

Interesting. While TD test isn't really used for cycling that much, I wouldn't necessarily think one couldn't get his levels high above the baseline. I remember looking at some graphs from a Testogel study, and with a relatively small dosage, the participants had around 2500 ngdl levels, if I remember correctly. I imagine one would have to apply it on multiple body areas. But in any case, it's enough for a test base.

Ya, my view on testosterone gel from everything I've seen, it's a option for keeping testosterone levels high on cycle but it's not going to contribute a lot for building muscle. It's definitely a option in part of a stack, but I can't seeing anyone doing a test gel only cycle and making significant gains.

I really can only speculate and make statements based off what Ive seen/heard because I've never tried using test gel on myself.

 

[Femme26]

Ya, my view on testosterone gel from everything I've seen, it's a option for keeping testosterone levels high on cycle but it's not going to contribute a lot for building muscle. It's definitely a option in part of a stack, but I can't seeing anyone doing a test gel only cycle and making significant gains.

I really can only speculate and make statements based off what Ive seen/heard because I've never tried using test gel on myself.

Will testogel be enough if you’re a woman?
If a woman is 5’2 and 141lbs, how would you recommend using testogel 50mg?
Cut it in half or use a whole?
First cycle ever, haven’t started yet
Only been using gh like 2 yrs ago.

 

[Smont]

Will testogel be enough if you’re a woman?
If a woman is 5’2 and 141lbs, how would you recommend using testogel 50mg?
Cut it in half or use a whole?
First cycle ever, haven’t started yet
Only been using gh like 2 yrs ago.

If you take testogel in the amounts you listed your gonna transition yourself into a man. The standard replacement dose for females is 5-10mg a day.

That's not a recommendation, it's just what I know females are using.

Anytime a female uses male hormones your slowly tipping the scales to make yourself more manly/masculine

 

[Femme26]

If you take testogel in the amounts you listed your gonna transition yourself into a man. The standard replacement dose for females is 5-10mg a day.

That's not a recommendation, it's just what I know females are using.

Anytime a female uses male hormones your slowly tipping the scales to make yourself more manly/masculine

Thank you for the information and for sharing your knowledge, I appreciate it a lot!
I will give this a serious and careful thought. And I will do my homework before jumping into anything. It might not be worth it in the end.