Primo cycle prep

[Uncle_E]

I’m trying to move up from sarms and orals and preparing to run my first ‘real’ cycle of two injectables. I chose primo hoping for the slow and steady lean tissue gains. I’ve always been on the smaller and leaner side, so I’m not looking to get huge, just gain some functional strength and look/feel good. I’m 40 years old, 5’8”, 165-170lbs currently with visible abs, I guess somewhere around 12-15% body fat. At the end of my test/t-bol cycle last year I broke 180 lbs for the first time in my life. I’m thinking that I will quickly go back up to the 180’s on this cycle and hope to maintain a lean 175 lb frame post cycle.

I have my training plan set with a 12 week power building plan, then switching back to 5/3/1 to try and push new PR’s towards the end of the cycle. Diet and food selection is pretty well set, I’m aiming for 4K calories per day as that worked well in the past.

Bloods were recently completed with a few minor concerns. I crushed my e2, lipids were border line, and H&H was a point over the range. I am already addressing everything on the list. I dropped my AI that crushed my e2 and started running dermacrine and HCG to get the e back up. I started citrus bergamont and ramping back up on olive oil consumption to help lipids. I’ll also plan to actually start doing consistent cardio as well. And finally, I went in and donated blood to address H&H. Any comments or suggestions on this?

I’m currently on 200mg/week TRT. The cycle plan is to run 400mg/week test cyp and 200mg/week primo for up to 20 weeks. I have plenty of test on hand, and 4 vials of primo 100mg/ML that I expect I should get roughly 20 weeks from that dose. I realize a lot of people will say this is a low dose for primo, I figured I would start low and potentially acquire more and increase the dose if it is well tolerated. I also have enough Var and tbol that I could add one in at the end of the cycle as well.

I am planning to inject twice a week Sunday and Thursday, 200mg test and 100mg primo both mixed in the same syringe to hopefully help mitigate PIP. Any comments or suggestions on this?

I’m going to continue the dermacrine for the first few weeks of the cycle until the bottle is empty. I will probably use HCG for the first and last few weeks - I like to take breaks to maintain effectiveness with this. I have telismarten on hand too in case BP spikes. Anything else I should consider before starting?

 

[Mikereyn513]

I like the thought of throwing in the anavar towards the end of this cycle I know your lipids aren't the best but if you're able to get them somewhat in range then go for it

 

[SSJ4GOD]

what ai did you use to crush your e2?

 

[Uncle_E]

what ai did you use to crush your e2?

Arimidex. I was experimenting with my TRT dose of 200mg/week and cut it down to 100mg/week to see how it felt. I kept taking 0.5mg arimidex once or twice a week when I didn’t need to. I learned a tough lesson on the confusing high/low e2 symptoms. I thought I was high and kept taking the AI when I was actually low.

Someone said it best on here a few weeks ago: high e = obsessed with your wife, low e = angry at your wife. All the other symptoms of both high and low are basically the same except for this.

I’m not going to take an AI probably until after the cycle given primos effects on e2.

 

[SSJ4GOD]

Yeah I’m going to experiment with taking apex transdermal 6-oxo instead of adex. Should be less side effects and easy every day dosing

 

[Hyde]

200 primo is not too little. It’s going to help manage estrogen from that 400mg test once it’s built up and more anabolism overall. Going with 300/300 would be too low on E for me.

Gonna be a nice smooth cycle likely. You definitely will want to add the Var for the last 6-8 weeks (idk how much you have).

 

[gphagan1]

I’m trying to move up from sarms and orals and preparing to run my first ‘real’ cycle of two injectables. I chose primo hoping for the slow and steady lean tissue gains. I’ve always been on the smaller and leaner side, so I’m not looking to get huge, just gain some functional strength and look/feel good. I’m 40 years old, 5’8”, 165-170lbs currently with visible abs, I guess somewhere around 12-15% body fat. At the end of my test/t-bol cycle last year I broke 180 lbs for the first time in my life. I’m thinking that I will quickly go back up to the 180’s on this cycle and hope to maintain a lean 175 lb frame post cycle.

I have my training plan set with a 12 week power building plan, then switching back to 5/3/1 to try and push new PR’s towards the end of the cycle. Diet and food selection is pretty well set, I’m aiming for 4K calories per day as that worked well in the past.

Bloods were recently completed with a few minor concerns. I crushed my e2, lipids were border line, and H&H was a point over the range. I am already addressing everything on the list. I dropped my AI that crushed my e2 and started running dermacrine and HCG to get the e back up. I started citrus bergamont and ramping back up on olive oil consumption to help lipids. I’ll also plan to actually start doing consistent cardio as well. And finally, I went in and donated blood to address H&H. Any comments or suggestions on this?

I’m currently on 200mg/week TRT. The cycle plan is to run 400mg/week test cyp and 200mg/week primo for up to 20 weeks. I have plenty of test on hand, and 4 vials of primo 100mg/ML that I expect I should get roughly 20 weeks from that dose. I realize a lot of people will say this is a low dose for primo, I figured I would start low and potentially acquire more and increase the dose if it is well tolerated. I also have enough Var and tbol that I could add one in at the end of the cycle as well.

I am planning to inject twice a week Sunday and Thursday, 200mg test and 100mg primo both mixed in the same syringe to hopefully help mitigate PIP. Any comments or suggestions on this?

I’m going to continue the dermacrine for the first few weeks of the cycle until the bottle is empty. I will probably use HCG for the first and last few weeks - I like to take breaks to maintain effectiveness with this. I have telismarten on hand too in case BP spikes. Anything else I should consider before starting?

Looks like you did your research man, that’s always good to see. Like was already said, should be a smooth cycle and I’m another that says to add the Var in towards the end. You should see some slow steady gains, probably not huge, but when you add the Var. you’ll get that extra kick to keep the gains going. You may see you will want to increase the Primo eventually, I like 400 Test and 400 Primo, but it’s perfectly fine starting at 200, and these slow steady gains cycles I have found are the ones you seem to keep the quality muscle from the most. Even if it’s 5 pounds over 20 weeks, that’s a success especially if your body fat stays the same or you even lean out a little.
Hopefully you’ll log it man, I would follow.

 

[Smont]

I just wanted to throw this in here, you said last cycle you broke 180 for the first time, that's a good problem, not a gear problem. You gotta eat to grow. I'm eating 3800-4200 a day right now, mostly because I've been overeating (I'm supposed to cut lol) but that's about maintenance calories for me at 205-210 with my activity level.

If you wanna get big you gotta eat big. That doesn't mean over do it. But if you weigh 175 lb, regardless of what you're taking that means you're eating like 175 lb person if you want to get up to 185 or 195 then you need to start eating like 185 or 195 lb person.


Ok il shut up with that now.

First time on primo and seccond cycle?

300 test/300primo would be my starting doses, and I would increase over time probably working up to 500/500 or something like that.

No1 is growing very much on 200 primo. If I had to choose between 400/200 test and primo or 500 test, I'd probably just run 500 test, get the same gains and save a lot of money

 

[Hyde]

I just wanted to throw this in here, you said last cycle you broke 180 for the first time, that's a good problem, not a gear problem. You gotta eat to grow. I'm eating 3800-4200 a day right now, mostly because I've been overeating (I'm supposed to cut lol) but that's about maintenance calories for me at 205-210 with my activity level.

If you wanna get big you gotta eat big. That doesn't mean over do it. But if you weigh 175 lb, regardless of what you're taking that means you're eating like 175 lb person if you want to get up to 185 or 195 then you need to start eating like 185 or 195 lb person.


Ok il shut up with that now.

First time on primo and seccond cycle?

300 test/300primo would be my starting doses, and I would increase over time probably working up to 500/500 or something like that.

No1 is growing very much on 200 primo. If I had to choose between 400/200 test and primo or 500 test, I'd probably just run 500 test, get the same gains and save a lot of money

For a different perspective, I definitely grow better on 400/200 than just 500 test. Straight test is just a shitty high side run for me, and it’s 20% more total mg. 500/100 would produce better gains than 500 solo; there’s not a threshold of mg to suddenly make gear work. Total mg matters.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but your logic doesn’t stack up. If there’s sufficient estrogen present, mg become mg more or less when looking at net protein synthesis.

Also, 300/300 would be too dry for me, so I don’t see how 400/200 would be inferior for someone like myself.

If you are just talking about money, that’s a different conversation, but he already bought the primo.

 

[gphagan1]

For a different perspective, I definitely grow better on 400/200 than just 500 test. Straight test is just a shitty high side run for me, and it’s 20% more total mg. 500/100 would produce better gains than 500 solo; there’s not a threshold of mg to suddenly make gear work. Total mg matters.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but your logic doesn’t stack up. If there’s sufficient estrogen present, mg become mg more or less when looking at net protein synthesis.

Also, 300/300 would be too dry for me, so I don’t see how 400/200 would be inferior for someone like myself.

If you are just talking about money, that’s a different conversation, but he already bought the primo.

That’s what I thought he was saying, to save money, but you’re right the OP did say he already had the Primo and could get more, so money didn’t seem to be an issue for him.
I’ve always liked 400/400 with Test/Primo or Test/Mast, those have always been such good smooth cycles, but I also take a lot of supplements to help these old joints, so if I didn’t take those the 400/400 may would be to dry for me. Ha, I also, sometimes, like to add a little Trest and that helps lubricate these old joints. Lol ….But not suggesting the OP add Trest, unless he just wanted to.

 

[Smont]

For a different perspective, I definitely grow better on 400/200 than just 500 test. Straight test is just a shitty high side run for me, and it’s 20% more total mg. 500/100 would produce better gains than 500 solo; there’s not a threshold of mg to suddenly make gear work. Total mg matters.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but your logic doesn’t stack up. If there’s sufficient estrogen present, mg become mg more or less when looking at net protein synthesis.

Also, 300/300 would be too dry for me, so I don’t see how 400/200 would be inferior for someone like myself.

If you are just talking about money, that’s a different conversation, but he already bought the primo.

Idk man, total mg dosent always mean more gains. 300 tren is gonna be stronger then 300 test, 300 test is going to be stronger then 300 mast or primo. 20mg of SD or trest per day would be 140 per week and be way stronger then 140 mg of anything listed above. Total mg dosent mean that much when comparing different compounds. Now if we're comparing apples to apples, 2 compounds similar in strength then total mg might make more sense, or if your on say 2 compounds and you raise your total mg of those 2.

For most ppl, adding small doses of mast or eq like 100-200mg is going to do more for estrogen and dht then it actually is for muscle growth. While steroids work at any dose, there is definitely a certain amount needed to produce a noticable result.

With all that said, I was more getting to the point that using 200mg of primo a week is kinda a waste of money, the dose is very low and for primo being so expensive, I wouldn't want to waste 4 bottles of it Running 200mg a week for 20 weeks. Now if you started at 400-200 and slowly working up over the course of 20 weeks, yes I would do something like that. But if I was gonna spend 20 weeks on only 200 I would save my money and just run test, or replace primo with mast or even eq something that's gonna be half the price with similar results.

 

[Uncle_E]

I appreciate all the feedback and debate so far, this is good stuff. I do already have the primo on hand, I’ve been slowly stocking up over the last few month. I have three different brands and 4 vials total. I’m not opposed to spending a little more if it goes well. I’m also concerned about sides like PIP and hair loss, so I’m thinking that I’ll try all three brands early in the cycle and asses the PIP of each one. If the cycle is going well a few weeks in and I’m tolerating the 200/week, then I’d consider buying more of my favorite of the three and upping the dose.

 

[Uncle_E]

I just wanted to throw this in here, you said last cycle you broke 180 for the first time, that's a good problem, not a gear problem. You gotta eat to grow. I'm eating 3800-4200 a day right now, mostly because I've been overeating (I'm supposed to cut lol) but that's about maintenance calories for me at 205-210 with my activity level.

If you wanna get big you gotta eat big. That doesn't mean over do it. But if you weigh 175 lb, regardless of what you're taking that means you're eating like 175 lb person if you want to get up to 185 or 195 then you need to start eating like 185 or 195 lb person.


Ok il shut up with that now.

First time on primo and seccond cycle?

300 test/300primo would be my starting doses, and I would increase over time probably working up to 500/500 or something like that.

No1 is growing very much on 200 primo. If I had to choose between 400/200 test and primo or 500 test, I'd probably just run 500 test, get the same gains and save a lot of money

Yes, I agree with this completely on the caloric intake needed to grow. I think this could tie into some points for your back to basics thread as well: how big can you really expect to get?

I’m small with a small frame, I’d look insane at a lean 190lb+. When I graduated high school I was 135lbs, trying to bulk up to 140lbs. I know that I could have wrestled at 125lbs back then.

I’m not super short at 5’8” and some change, but the bone structure of my hands, wrists and rib cage is just smaller than most of my friends and teammates over the years. I’ve known guys that are 5’4” at best, but weigh over 200lbs and don’t look obese because they have a broader structure of shoulders/ribs and huge hands. I really think that’s a genetic factor, there is a limit to how much meat you can pack on to your specific bones. I’m not trying to say that I am or could be near my limit, the point is getting from the 130’s to the 180’s while staying relatively lean took a lot of eating and training.

That being said, I do want to dial in my diet for this cycle better than I have before. Increase the calories and try to make better choices than simply rely on IIFYM.

 

[Smont]

Yes, I agree with this completely on the caloric intake needed to grow. I think this could tie into some points for your back to basics thread as well: how big can you really expect to get?

I’m small with a small frame, I’d look insane at a lean 190lb+. When I graduated high school I was 135lbs, trying to bulk up to 140lbs. I know that I could have wrestled at 125lbs back then.

I’m not super short at 5’8” and some change, but the bone structure of my hands, wrists and rib cage is just smaller than most of my friends and teammates over the years. I’ve known guys that are 5’4” at best, but weigh over 200lbs and don’t look obese because they have a broader structure of shoulders/ribs and huge hands. I really think that’s a genetic factor, there is a limit to how much meat you can pack on to your specific bones. I’m not trying to say that I am or could be near my limit, the point is getting from the 130’s to the 180’s while staying relatively lean took a lot of eating and training.

That being said, I do want to dial in my diet for this cycle better than I have before. Increase the calories and try to make better choices than simply rely on IIFYM.

I know this sounds very broad or maybe even cliche, but the guy Paul from anabolic bodybuilding always says this and I agree with it completely, getting big is a matter of who can eat the most chicken and rice. Sounds simple but it's really not cuz it's hard to just eat like a dog over and over and over again

 

[Hyde]

Idk man, total mg dosent always mean more gains. 300 tren is gonna be stronger then 300 test, 300 test is going to be stronger then 300 mast or primo. 20mg of SD or trest per day would be 140 per week and be way stronger then 140 mg of anything listed above. Total mg dosent mean that much when comparing different compounds. Now if we're comparing apples to apples, 2 compounds similar in strength then total mg might make more sense, or if your on say 2 compounds and you raise your total mg of those 2.

For most ppl, adding small doses of mast or eq like 100-200mg is going to do more for estrogen and dht then it actually is for muscle growth. While steroids work at any dose, there is definitely a certain amount needed to produce a noticable result.

With all that said, I was more getting to the point that using 200mg of primo a week is kinda a waste of money, the dose is very low and for primo being so expensive, I wouldn't want to waste 4 bottles of it Running 200mg a week for 20 weeks. Now if you started at 400-200 and slowly working up over the course of 20 weeks, yes I would do something like that. But if I was gonna spend 20 weeks on only 200 I would save my money and just run test, or replace primo with mast or even eq something that's gonna be half the price with similar results.

No no no. Don’t twist it ; you know we’re talking about the basic family of safer injectables traditional injectables: test, mast, primo, eq, nandrolone. These have been shown to be more or less apples to apples in studies on their effects on protein synthesis. You choose the ones that work best based on things like sex hormone needs, estrogen requirements, personal side effect profiles (and cost & availability of course). 500mg of testosterone and 500mg of primobolan will allow similar net muscle growth (assuming you could have similar estrogen levels, both because estrogen is anabolic in tissue and to allow GH conversion to IGF1).

Obviously when primo prevents conversion of testosterone to estrogen, that matters, but it comes back to how much estrogen you need/can tolerate. If you need an AI for the test, you’re preventing the same conversion, and if you run Ralox you’ll get the higher estrogen but still take a hit to IGF1 conversion. So it’s always striking a balance.

Orals, Tren, Trest, offer no comparison - that is apples to oranges.

I really think people confuse the volumization on a cycle, especially 19-Nors, with gains. When it’s all over, that’s when you see what you kept. So they really make more sense for their acute benefits (like using nandrolone to train harder with happier joints on blast, some Tren for glucocorticoid inhibition in a diet or the look on stage it gives or acute strength, etc).

 

[BBiceps]

I like Primo a lot and think it’s a great drug and I’m all for doing the lowest dose possibly but I think you’re wasting it to just use 200mg, I could understand it if you’re cruising but if you want to get the most out of the drug I recommend to use a little more, even 300 is a better option but at 400 is where it starts to shine.

 

[Danksta710]

I agree with others. I ran a test/primo cycle starting at 200mg primo; once I ramped up to 400-600 was when it got good. You will likely get cosmetic effects at 200mg but I doubt any/much muscle gain. Just from personal exp.

 

[Smont]

No no no. Don’t twist it ; you know we’re talking about the basic family of safer injectables traditional injectables: test, mast, primo, eq, nandrolone. These have been shown to be more or less apples to apples in studies on their effects on protein synthesis. You choose the ones that work best based on things like sex hormone needs, estrogen requirements, personal side effect profiles (and cost & availability of course). 500mg of testosterone and 500mg of primobolan will allow similar net muscle growth (assuming you could have similar estrogen levels, both because estrogen is anabolic in tissue and to allow GH conversion to IGF1).

Obviously when primo prevents conversion of testosterone to estrogen, that matters, but it comes back to how much estrogen you need/can tolerate. If you need an AI for the test, you’re preventing the same conversion, and if you run Ralox you’ll get the higher estrogen but still take a hit to IGF1 conversion. So it’s always striking a balance.

Orals, Tren, Trest, offer no comparison - that is apples to oranges.

I really think people confuse the volumization on a cycle, especially 19-Nors, with gains. When it’s all over, that’s when you see what you kept. So they really make more sense for their acute benefits (like using nandrolone to train harder with happier joints on blast, some Tren for glucocorticoid inhibition in a diet or the look on stage it gives or acute strength, etc).

I've twisted nothig dude, The effects on protein synthesis are not the be all and all and we know that things like masteron and primo do not build muscle mg vs mg with things like deca or whatever else you choose. they're definitely not all apples to apples. I just cannot agree on that. If they were all apples to apples we could just use test and Mast for every cycle.

Someone using 1000 total mg of test/mast/tbol is not going to grow the same amount as they would on say test/npp/anadrol. If they were all apples to apples then they would produce damn near identical results.

I don't really have any debate in me on this because my opinion on this subject is concrete.

If you want to break it down to the simplest form I can think of, take 500 mg of masteron solo and tell me that you grow as much as you would on 500 mg of trend Solo or 500 mg of testosterone Solo or 500 mg of deca solo.

Take side effects and all of that out the window and let's go down to the simplest form of how much muscle you can build on 500 mg of one of these compounds.

If they were all apples to apples they would all produce similar amounts of muscle growth but we know that no one is growing any significant amount of muscle on a 500 mg masteron only cycle

 

[Hyde]

I've twisted nothig dude, The effects on protein synthesis are not the be all and all and we know that things like masteron and primo do not build muscle mg vs mg with things like deca or whatever else you choose. they're definitely not all apples to apples. I just cannot agree on that. If they were all apples to apples we could just use test and Mast for every cycle.

Someone using 1000 total mg of test/mast/tbol is not going to grow the same amount as they would on say test/npp/anadrol. If they were all apples to apples then they would produce damn near identical results.

I don't really have any debate in me on this because my opinion on this subject is concrete.

If you want to break it down to the simplest form I can think of, take 500 mg of masteron solo and tell me that you grow as much as you would on 500 mg of trend Solo or 500 mg of testosterone Solo or 500 mg of deca solo.

Take side effects and all of that out the window and let's go down to the simplest form of how much muscle you can build on 500 mg of one of these compounds.

If they were all apples to apples they would all produce similar amounts of muscle growth but we know that no one is growing any significant amount of muscle on a 500 mg masteron only cycle

I do disagree, but I very much appreciate your response.

They indeed wouldn’t all be the same at 500 solo of each, because each drug does other things/specific attributes. Tren preventing catabolism, Deca causing PR interactions, Test large amounts of ER activation. My only point is if you start needing an AI on X dose of test, then running a hybrid of test/primo at the same threshold where you can get away with no AI is similar.

The most test you can run, the best, because IMHO estrogen should be as high as tolerable for growth.

Edit: I am not trying to argue and I don’t want to derail this or need to follow up if you have more to add, but I wanted to better explain my opinions.

 

[Smont]

I do disagree, but I very much appreciate your response.

They indeed wouldn’t all be the same at 500 solo of each, because each drug does other things/specific attributes. Tren preventing catabolism, Deca causing PR interactions, Test large amounts of ER activation. My only point is if you start needing an AI on X dose of test, then running a hybrid of test/primo at the same threshold where you can get away with no AI is similar.

The most test you can run, the best, because IMHO estrogen should be as high as tolerable for growth.

Edit: I am not trying to argue and I don’t want to derail this or need to follow up if you have more to add, but I wanted to better explain my opinions.

I don't ever take your argument as a actual argument. Im always interested in your opinion and sometimes we just gotta agree to disagree. You arguments are usually benificial to me

 

[gphagan1]

I thought that was a good, healthy, respectful debate. The way a discussion should be, and excellent facts presented on both sides, as well as personal experiences. And is such a good example of personal experience can change opinions from person to person.
Great points on total milligrams always having an increased affect as milligrams are increased, but also a great point on different compounds have different strengths and weaknesses making it hard to compare them without understanding the benefits of each as well as the weakness. But it serves as an example that even among very experienced vets, because of personal experiences usually, opinions can vary.
I don’t think it derailed the thread at all, because it helps others to see it is important to understand what each compound could do for each individual. At the end of the day it just goes to show that as complex as all this is to understand and then break it down to explain to others, that each individual has to learn their own bodies to make better decisions on what may or may not work for them.

 

[Smont]

I thought that was a good, healthy, respectful debate. The way a discussion should be, and excellent facts presented on both sides, as well as personal experiences. And is such a good example of personal experience can change opinions from person to person.
Great points on total milligrams always having an increased affect as milligrams are increased, but also a great point on different compounds have different strengths and weaknesses making it hard to compare them without understanding the benefits of each as well as the weakness. But it serves as an example that even among very experienced vets, because of personal experiences usually, opinions can vary.
I don’t think it derailed the thread at all, because it helps others to see it is important to understand what each compound could do for each individual. At the end of the day it just goes to show that as complex as all this is to understand and then break it down to explain to others, that each individual has to learn their own bodies to make better decisions on what may or may not work for them.

This is pretty much our normal bumping heads on a topic, but in my opinion there's nothing wrong with it. In today's world, and we see it all the time on the board, when someone dissagrees it turns into some blowout war or someone has a temper tantrum and it's rediculous. None of us know everything, and the majority of this stuff really doesn't even have a definitive answer. The way we learn about stuff is sharing thoughts, experience and studies ect. If we just agree with everything each other says all the time then we're just gonna turn into talking parrots, mimicking what we heard with no rhyme or reason. When there's a discussion like this, normally someone is going to learn something new or at least open there mind to a new idea.

It's all part of the learning process, when someone gets proven wrong they usually get mad or defensive.

When I get proven wrong I'm excited because it means I just learned something new and more knowledge is more power

 

[Mikereyn513]

This is pretty much our normal bumping heads on a topic, but in my opinion there's nothing wrong with it. In today's world, and we see it all the time on the board, when someone dissagrees it turns into some blowout war or someone has a temper tantrum and it's rediculous. None of us know everything, and the majority of this stuff really doesn't even have a definitive answer. The way we learn about stuff is sharing thoughts, experience and studies ect. If we just agree with everything each other says all the time then we're just gonna turn into talking parrots, mimicking what we heard with no rhyme or reason. When there's a discussion like this, normally someone is going to learn something new or at least open there mind to a new idea.

It's all part of the learning process, when someone gets proven wrong they usually get mad or defensive.

When I get proven wrong I'm excited because it means I just learned something new and more knowledge is more power

I feel the exact same way when I get proven wrong or am convinced of something different I get excited because I've become smarter and better because of it. This is hiw growth happens its how the world evolves if people acted back in the day like they do now this country wouldn't even exist because we'd still think the world is flat and should be controlled by kings

 

[Uncle_E]

As the OP, I do t feel that this thread has been detailed at all. This is actually some of the best debate and info I’ve seen on here in a while. If only the people who ran our country could debate, disagree and move forward like this.

I took the first blast this morning, 200T & 100P, here we go!

 

[gphagan1]

As the OP, I do t feel that this thread has been detailed at all. This is actually some of the best debate and info I’ve seen on here in a while. If only the people who ran our country could debate, disagree and move forward like this.

I took the first blast this morning, 200T & 100P, here we go!

Keep us updated on how everything is going.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Right on bro..let the fun begin...to the moon alice!!! I think @Hyde will get that reference it's from some TV show in the 60s lol

 

[Hyde]

As the OP, I do t feel that this thread has been detailed at all. This is actually some of the best debate and info I’ve seen on here in a while. If only the people who ran our country could debate, disagree and move forward like this.

I took the first blast this morning, 200T & 100P, here we go!

Right on bro..let the fun begin...to the moon alice!!! I think @Hyde will get that reference it's from some TV show in the 60s lol

Classic Honeymooners bro; that show made threatening domestic abuse funny AF

 

[Uncle_E]

I’m too busy and inconsistent to do a proper log, so I’m just going to roll this thread into a half-assed log.

I took the first injection about 72 hours ago, and have completed 2 workouts since. The PIP was a 2 out of 10, and I was able to hit squats the next morning. My BP the night of the first injection was 122/79, by far the best number I’ve seen in a long time. My hair didn’t fall out nor did my liver fall off, so I’d say I’m off to a good start, lol.

I have a annual physical and blood work scheduled about 28 weeks out, this should give me enough time to get a 20+/- week run in then 6-8 weeks off before bloods.

I’m still considering increasing the primo dose as I go forward, we’ll see in a few weeks.

I see what Hyde was trying to say about the larger dose potentially being a waste. I thought of a good metaphor at a car show this weekend. A guy had a Dodge Hellcat that comes stock with 700+ hp, enough power to beat nearly anything in a drag race. He spent a lot of money and had it modified to make 1,000+ hp. It’s really cool and he has the bragging rights, but all that added power doesn’t come without side effects - he is much more likely to break something, and there is not a street legal tire that can handle that power off the line. He spent all that money to increase the power, but he can’t get any traction with it, so it is not really any faster than the stock form. I’m sure there is a sweet spot where he could add power and make it faster, but too much and it would be wasted, it’s all about finding the right balance. I’m going to try that approach with the primo.

 

[BBiceps]

I’m too busy and inconsistent to do a proper log, so I’m just going to roll this thread into a half-assed log.

I took the first injection about 72 hours ago, and have completed 2 workouts since. The PIP was a 2 out of 10, and I was able to hit squats the next morning. My BP the night of the first injection was 122/79, by far the best number I’ve seen in a long time. My hair didn’t fall out nor did my liver fall off, so I’d say I’m off to a good start, lol.

I have a annual physical and blood work scheduled about 28 weeks out, this should give me enough time to get a 20+/- week run in then 6-8 weeks off before bloods.

I’m still considering increasing the primo dose as I go forward, we’ll see in a few weeks.

I see what Hyde was trying to say about the larger dose potentially being a waste. I thought of a good metaphor at a car show this weekend. A guy had a Dodge Hellcat that comes stock with 700+ hp, enough power to beat nearly anything in a drag race. He spent a lot of money and had it modified to make 1,000+ hp. It’s really cool and he has the bragging rights, but all that added power doesn’t come without side effects - he is much more likely to break something, and there is not a street legal tire that can handle that power off the line. He spent all that money to increase the power, but he can’t get any traction with it, so it is not really any faster than the stock form. I’m sure there is a sweet spot where he could add power and make it faster, but too much and it would be wasted, it’s all about finding the right balance. I’m going to try that approach with the primo.

I understand what you’re trying to say (or think you’re saying) but that’s the complete opposite of what Primo does, Primo is really a drug that will get better with dosage and still fairly side effects free. Most other drugs I agree (somewhat) with your statement.

 

[gphagan1]

I understand what you’re trying to say (or think you’re saying) but that’s the complete opposite of what Primo does, Primo is really a drug that will get better with dosage and still fairly side effects free. Most other drugs I agree (somewhat) with your statement.

Yep, that’s been my experience as well…. that’s why I really do love Primo. It’s nice clean gains, and just seems to get better as you go along.

 

[Hyde]

What I was trying to say is that more testosterone is probably optimal (cheap, available, “healthy” enough) to the point you don’t need an AI or don’t get bad sides, but beyond there if you are getting sides or need to add an AI (which can have their own sides or health impact) the argument to add some primo or Masteron or eq instead starts to open up.

 

[Uncle_E]

What I was trying to say is that more testosterone is probably optimal (cheap, available, “healthy” enough) to the point you don’t need an AI or don’t get bad sides, but beyond there if you are getting sides or need to add an AI (which can have their own sides or health impact) the argument to add some primo or Masteron or eq instead starts to open up.

I see said the blind man. I was seeing it as a more basic point of diminishing returns.

 

[Hyde]

I see said the blind man. I was seeing it as a more basic point of diminishing returns.

A lot of it comes down to personal response to the drugs, and preferences (including for side effects you do get from test vs other things).

 

[Uncle_E]

This is the beginning of week 2 for me at 400 T / 200 Primo, and things are off to a good start. I was a little sick last week, but I do t think it had anything to do with the gear. Im feeling great overall though. I’m trying to run a long cycle, so I’m in no rush to start pushing PR’s right away. I think I want a good 4-6 weeks of good workouts where I focus on the quality of each rep before I start trying to push PR’s.

Im also looking for an upcoming Black Friday sale to pick up more primo to increase the dose. I’m m feeling fine so far, and I realized that I’m a low responder to test, so probably the same case with primo. After week 3, I think I’ll up it to 500 T / 300 P and go from there.

 

[Hyde]

This is the beginning of week 2 for me at 400 T / 200 Primo, and things are off to a good start. I was a little sick last week, but I do t think it had anything to do with the gear. Im feeling great overall though. I’m trying to run a long cycle, so I’m in no rush to start pushing PR’s right away. I think I want a good 4-6 weeks of good workouts where I focus on the quality of each rep before I start trying to push PR’s.

Im also looking for an upcoming Black Friday sale to pick up more primo to increase the dose. I’m m feeling fine so far, and I realized that I’m a low responder to test, so probably the same case with primo. After week 3, I think I’ll up it to 500 T / 300 P and go from there.

It’s going to take 4-5 weeks of injecting enanthate esters for peak plasma concentration to be reached - the dose is continually climbing until then.

Do NOT up the injection dose in week 3. It’s still going up. Give it a damn minute.

 

[Uncle_E]

It’s going to take 4-5 weeks of injecting enanthate esters for peak plasma concentration to be reached - the dose is continually climbing until then.

Do NOT up the injection dose in week 3. It’s still going up. Give it a damn minute.

exactly why I post on here.

 

[Mikereyn513]

Agree with @Hyde as usual when it comes to enth esters wait atleast 4 weeks till you decide. Most guys that I've met that actually know something won't up it until week 6. I had a coach once I begged to move up and he made me wait a whole 6 weeks and at the end of week 4 I knew why

 

[Hyde]

Agree with @Hyde as usual when it comes to enth esters wait atleast 4 weeks till you decide. Most guys that I've met that actually know something won't up it until week 6. I had a coach once I begged to move up and he made me wait a whole 6 weeks and at the end of week 4 I knew why

That 4-6 week zone is usually where you’re really seeing the changes showing well.

 

[BBiceps]

Agree, I would wait 4-6 weeks before I increase dose and I would increase Primo before I increase Test.

 

[Uncle_E]

Solid advice guys. It just goes to show that as much as you think you can learn through research, nothing beats real world experience.

I was feeling great in the gym and after yesterday, woke up feeling pretty good too then a massive headache came on. BP spiked to 150/90’s after showering this morning. I took cold medicine and brink-aid last night to help with breathing and congestion, but I don’t think that’s causing the spike. I have some user error issues with the cuff so I will test again later, but the headache is convincing me that it is elevated BP. I have telismarten on hand, and input on how/when to add this in?

 

[Hyde]

Solid advice guys. It just goes to show that as much as you think you can learn through research, nothing beats real world experience.

I was feeling great in the gym and after yesterday, woke up feeling pretty good too then a massive headache came on. BP spiked to 150/90’s after showering this morning. I took cold medicine and brink-aid last night to help with breathing and congestion, but I don’t think that’s causing the spike. I have some user error issues with the cuff so I will test again later, but the headache is convincing me that it is elevated BP. I have telismarten on hand, and input on how/when to add this in?

Every night or every morning consistently, with or without food is irrelevant but avoid it with high fiber meals like all supplements & meds.

40-80mg is probably what you will need if your BP is elevated. If you aren’t totally certain what your BP is, absolutely start with 40mg for a week or so. You should really do that anyway to make sure how you react. The main potential side effect from Telmisartan would be excessively high potassium levels, which would only be shown on bloodwork, so pull bloods in a month.

I’m not a doctor; this is just how I use it based on what I’ve read and found to be helpful.

 

[Uncle_E]

Every night or every morning consistently, with or without food is irrelevant but avoid it with high fiber meals like all supplements & meds.

40-80mg is probably what you will need if your BP is elevated. If you aren’t totally certain what your BP is, absolutely start with 40mg for a week or so. You should really do that anyway to make sure how you react. The main potential side effect from Telmisartan would be excessively high potassium levels, which would only be shown on bloodwork, so pull bloods in a month.

I’m not a doctor; this is just how I use it based on what I’ve read and found to be helpful.

I tested BP again at night and was 135/85, I can live with that on cycle. I tested again this morning and was 140/90, too high. I’m wondering if some of this is timing, right after a hot shower and cortisol is spiking as I’m waking up and planning out all of the days tasks.

I realized that I have a full bottle of SNS Blood Pressure Support and plenty of tadalafil on hand, so I think I’m going to try this combo for a week or two and see if there is any improvement before I jump on the telmisartan.

 

[Hyde]

Morning is when you want to take your reading, so if it’s 140/90 you want to intervene.

Definitely start the BP Support XT. Tadalafil isn’t that useful for bp but it could be worth a few points.

Stay hydrated and incorporate routine cardio whenever you can as well.

 

[gphagan1]

Morning is when you want to take your reading, so if it’s 140/90 you want to intervene.

Definitely start the BP Support XT. Tadalafil isn’t that useful for bp but it could be worth a few points.

Stay hydrated and incorporate routine cardio whenever you can as well.

I’ve used the SNS BP support on cycle before, and it is a good product. And Telmisartan is my go to drug for BP as well, but I do think a lot of people underestimate how much the addition of some good cardio and healthy eating helps blood pressure.

 

[Uncle_E]

Morning is when you want to take your reading, so if it’s 140/90 you want to intervene.

Definitely start the BP Support XT. Tadalafil isn’t that useful for bp but it could be worth a few points.

Stay hydrated and incorporate routine cardio whenever you can as well.

This is week 3 of the cycle for me and it is going well, except BP is not going down. I’m pretty red in the face, and I have headaches where my brain connects to my spine that won’t go away.

I guess this should be expected, I’ve been borderline for a while now and just seemed to get it under control before starting the cycle, so I shouldn’t be surprised. I had to basically eliminate all caffeine to get it down, now I’m adding in gear.

My father and his brother have never run gear and are fairy active with cardio, but they both have BP issues and needed to start meds right at 40, my age.

I’ve been running dermacrine for the past 4 weeks to get help recover my crashed estrogen, with 400mg T per week and HCG with no AI. I don’t feel overly emotional, but I do believe that my e is back up and I might be over doing it with androgens, so I’m dropping the dermacrine for now.

I’m going to start the telmisartan at 40mg/day but cutting the tabs in half for a week and see how I feel.

I’m also going to actually start a cardio routine. I’ve been a lean hard gainer my whole life, I also have asthma, flat feet and a messed up back, so I HATE cardio. But as I’ve learned in the past, if there is an exercise that I hate, it’s because I don’t do it enough and need to really lean into it.

 

[BBiceps]

I started my Primo yesterday, yay

 

[Mikereyn513]

I started my Primo yesterday, yay

Lucky...I'm jealous

 

[BBiceps]

Lucky...I'm jealous

Thanks, I’m pretty excited, l added some oral Primo to the oil this time, going to be interesting to see if it hits faster or what the difference is.

 

[Jstrong20]

Take your blood pressure before you get out of bed. As soon as your moving around it will go up and influenced by a lot of things.

 

[Hyde]

Take your blood pressure before you get out of bed. As soon as your moving around it will go up and influenced by a lot of things.

Yeah, but if he’s having headaches and consistently getting high readings, and red face, and his bloodwork supports top end phlebotic values, and he has been trying to crank estrogen up hard, and he was borderline before…it’s pretty likely it’s truly elevated.