powerFULL bloodwork coming soon....

Max32 said:
well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it! And 1 week on powerfull pulling someone out of post cycle rebound....not likely; it would however have been plenty long enough to cause shutdown, which it did not.
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Chill the hell out. I don't know why you are taking this so damn personal and getting all combative when somebody has something to say about what you posted.

We're saying that the tests are skewed, and that is fact, not opinion. If the tests aren't completely accurate, then you're damn sure the members are gonna say something...do you think we're just gonna turn our heads and take your word for it? I don';t think so bud...even if ATD is methylated, we don't have conclusive evidence if it will or will not skew results...why is that so hard to understand?? You're taking this too personal, and dissing members here like they have no biz questioning the almighty max when they're trying to decide to purchase a product or not. Chill out.
 
Mr.50 said:
No Max you misunderstand. I am sorry I sounded like I was complaining. All of us, myself included, greatly appreciate your efforts in this blood work and all the other positive feedback you have given us. I was just trying to say that this was the first important step because it is the first feedback we have at all on what is really going on in our bodies with Powerfull. As with any other scientific experiment repeated examination is required to isolate all variables. Again I apologise for sounding ungreatful.

Mr.50
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No, I overeacted and thank you for understanding how everyone was breathing down my neck to get these #s, and then once there here, it's like, sorry not good enough...ya know
 
lifted said:
Chill the hell out. I don't know why you are taking this so damn personal and getting all combative when somebody has something to say about what you posted.

We're saying that the tests are skewed, and that is fact, not opinion. If the tests aren't completely accurate, then you're damn sure the members are gonna say something...do you think we're just gonna turn our heads and take your word for it? I don';t think so bud...even if ATD is methylated, we don't have conclusive evidence if it will or will not skew results...why is that so hard to understand?? You're taking this too personal, and dissing members here like they have no biz questioning the almighty max when they're trying to decide to purchase a product or not. Chill out.
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Yes, I said from day one there would be slight issues with the #s had they turned out for the negative, but I have to disagree with you in the sense that these do infact reflect positively on a few different products, albeit, they are skewed. I do not gain anything by anyone buying hotter, powerfull, activaTE, etc....I just got tired of everyone constantly looking over my shoulder to see when I would be getting the #s back, when many could have gone out and one it themselves. I took 50's post wrong, and if you happen to look up one, you will see that. "The almighty max," please, get real bro. And I never "dissed" anyone, just felt if people thought there were so many inherent issues, then they could simply leave work an hour early, and stop by their general pract to take some bloodwork, instead of nagging me and then complaining after results came in, simple as that. I have always liked reading 50's reviews, posts, etc..., so please do not tell me I am "dissing" him
 
Mr.50 said:
All in all no hard feelings so lets just move on :o


Mr.50
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Sounds good to me bro. Hey, also interested in seeing how the transition from GH to pGH goes from the other thread (although the results are skewed,,,jk :lol: )
 
Max32 said:
Here are the #s pre cycle and post PH cycle, then hotter, retain and activate PCT, and powerFULL after:
-----------
pre: (June 05)
total test: 471 (241-827)
Free test: 9.6 (9.3-26.5)
---------------------------------------------------
post (late sept 05, immediately after hotter at 3 1/2 weeks and a week into powerFULL)
Obviously, they used a different test for these #s, but it looks as though the hotter did what it was designed to do and the powerFULL did not appear to be suppressive (cheers from everyone!!!) My free (active) test more than doubled (activaTE no doubt a positive culprit here as well), estradiol was well under control and total test looks to be on the road to recovery.....

Total test: 257 (250-1100)
Free Test: 2.06 (1.1-2.8)
Free test(2): 53 (35-155)
DHEA sulfate: 156 (110-510)
FSH: 2.6 (1.6-8.0)
LH: 3.4 (1.5-9.3)
estradiol: 27 (13-54)
​
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I think one important thing to note is that even if the total test is skewed somehow by lingering ATD metabolite, LH and FSH are still elevated (albeit low normal)...if shutdown occurred, they would be closer to 0 unless powerfull caused some sort of slow shutdown and they are on the decline.

Thanks for the blood draw, at least we know now that powerfull doesnt cause shutdown at least immediately.
 
bigpetefox said:
As I've mentioned afew times thus far, PowerFULL is a saponin-based product that will not cause shutdown.. If saponins shut you down, people are wasting time using tribulus during PCT, especially a high-saponin product..
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I want to elaborate on this a bit. I found this study Invalid Link Removed showing that the reason protodioscin (the active in tribulus) works is because it converts to DHEA.

My question is whether DHEA supplementation has caused suppression...I dont think it has, as people use it for PCT, but wouldnt longterm administration of DHEA cause some suppression?
 
Max32 said:
well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it!
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There's more to come. I'm having blood drawing in the next 24 hours and should have results in the next 48. It will be exactally two weeks on Powerfull and more than six weeks off from any AI, SERM's, etc. Tests will be for liver, kidney, lipids and total test. LH, FSH and Free Test will not be included.
 
bow said:
There's more to come. I'm having blood drawing in the next 24 hours and should have results in the next 48. It will be exactally two weeks on Powerfull and more than six weeks off from any AI, SERM's, etc. Tests will be for liver, kidney, lipids and total test. LH, FSH and Free Test will not be included.
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sounds good man. I wanted to run liver tests, but my lipids have been next to perfect as of late (last test, total chol of 109 and triglycerides @ 16 !!)
 
Max32 said:
Yes, I said from day one there would be slight issues with the #s had they turned out for the negative, but I have to disagree with you in the sense that these do infact reflect positively on a few different products, albeit, they are skewed. I do not gain anything by anyone buying hotter, powerfull, activaTE, etc....I just got tired of everyone constantly looking over my shoulder to see when I would be getting the #s back, when many could have gone out and one it themselves. I took 50's post wrong, and if you happen to look up one, you will see that. "The almighty max," please, get real bro. And I never "dissed" anyone, just felt if people thought there were so many inherent issues, then they could simply leave work an hour early, and stop by their general pract to take some bloodwork, instead of nagging me and then complaining after results came in, simple as that. I have always liked reading 50's reviews, posts, etc..., so please do not tell me I am "dissing" him
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I never said you gained anything by running the tests. I said you need to chill out when guys are asking or rather pointing out flaws in the testing procedures and you say things like "well ****, then soemone else get off their ass and do it!"....That isn't flying off the handle? You gimme a break...

Fair enough, you apologized, discussion is over.
 
Enigma76 said:
I want to elaborate on this a bit. I found this study Invalid Link Removed showing that the reason protodioscin (the active in tribulus) works is because it converts to DHEA.

My question is whether DHEA supplementation has caused suppression...I dont think it has, as people use it for PCT, but wouldnt longterm administration of DHEA cause some suppression?
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sounds like we should just take DHEA then. or is there something i'm missing?
 
wastedwhiteboy2 said:
sounds like we should just take DHEA then. or is there something i'm missing?
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Some have reported nice gains of mega dosing DHEA at around 2 grams per day.
 
If you run a search, you'll find some good threads discussing the use of DHEA during PCT, standalone, etc. Some very useful information there. I did use DHEA for PCT before and it was definately a very good recovery transition. There is actually a study posted in one of the threads that states no suppression was noted after 1600mg or so was dosed for a given time span...however, I have also seen some otther studies that said it did effect HPTA, so I would still play it safe and cycle it if not over the age of 40...
 
Enigma76 said:
I want to elaborate on this a bit. I found this study Invalid Link Removed showing that the reason protodioscin (the active in tribulus) works is because it converts to DHEA.

My question is whether DHEA supplementation has caused suppression...I dont think it has, as people use it for PCT, but wouldnt longterm administration of DHEA cause some suppression?
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DHEA doesn't cause shutdown, if so it would be dumb to cry wolf at a methylated ATD yet dose DHEA 200mg ED to recover.. ;)

Guys, thank Max for even letting us know how his bloodwork has gone.. I get mine done quite often, yet I'm stingy as far as posting my totals, bit too much info for me.. :)
 
x_muscle said:
I would be intrested to see blood work on some one mega dosing DHEA.......
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I cant show you that, however I can show you two studies I dug up showing there is no suppression caused by DHEA (up to 200mg daily for 6 months in healthy young men in one study).

Invalid Link Removed
Invalid Link Removed

Clearly however the effects that powerFULL is having cant be from DHEA, or else we would've heard about it before. It must be from the muira puama extract. I'm still very interested to know exactly what effects on the body this is having and why.
 
Good point here. Could be decline on the shutdown but unlikely.



Enigma76 said:
I think one important thing to note is that even if the total test is skewed somehow by lingering ATD metabolite, LH and FSH are still elevated (albeit low normal)...if shutdown occurred, they would be closer to 0 unless powerfull caused some sort of slow shutdown and they are on the decline.

Thanks for the blood draw, at least we know now that powerfull doesnt cause shutdown at least immediately.
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wastedwhiteboy2 said:
bow can you post what other supplements you are taking if any.
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Cissus RX, CEE, Rhdiola, NAC, Milk Thistle, ALCAR, K-RALA, Amp (3 times per week), Green Tea, and Fish Oil. That about covers it ;)
 
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