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post workout carbs- crucial yes or no

post workout carbs- crucial yes or no

  • Just Protein, no carbs, no fat

    Votes: 9 6.9%

  • Protein and fat

    Votes: 10 7.7%

  • protein and carbs(slow digesting)

    Votes: 19 14.6%

  • protein and carbs(fast digesting)

    Votes: 92 70.8%
  • Total voters
    130
Jag said:
I find stuff like this very interesting...but confusing!! I wish i had the time to sit down and decipher it.

If someone could break it down into a few paragraphs in laymans terms would be great.

Jag
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Basically, they're saying that a calorie is not a calorie and that "metabolic advantage" is true and that low carb diets work because "somehow" you can over eat your calories and still lose weight because of a magic "metabolic advantage" prevents calories from being calories as we know them...so a person eating a high carb diet would not have this metabolic advantage and would gain, while the low carber....has it.

Garry Tabues wrote a book called "Goo calories, Bad calories" he says that muscle mass has no significant effect on basal metabolic rate, his book is really examinations of studies and studies, very well written, he doesn't really "tell you" what's right, he just shows you that research shows that low fat is bad for you and insulin (anything other than low carb) is the cause of obesity and helps store fat in studies of equal caloric control meals for people but were done with low carb, high fat, high protein and that HDL/LDL levels improve dramatically on low carb, etc....

Something....like that......

I either eat pro/fat or nothing PWO.
 
jakellpet said:
what about the liver of small children?:hammer:
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:smite:

I eat that fresh with some chianti every night and morning with a glass of fresh blood, it really helps with my energy levels and skin texture.

I believe in taking care of myself and a balanced diet with children's liver and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning if my face is a little puffy I'll put on an ice pack while I grab a child from the pen and slaughter it then clean it. I have 1000 in the pen now. After I remove the ice pack I pour the blood into a big cup and drink it while I listen to some relaxing jazz. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub made with kid's fresh heart. Then I apply the blood facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes, I also rub juice of child's eye on it while I prepare the rest of my routine I always eat the eyeballs for the vitamin A content because it's great for my skin and overall well being.


:smite:
 
please dont vote

Omen said:
:smite:

I eat that fresh with some chianti every night and morning with a glass of fresh blood, it really helps with my energy levels and skin texture.

I believe in taking care of myself and a balanced diet with children's liver and a rigorous exercise routine. In the morning if my face is a little puffy I'll put on an ice pack while I grab a child from the pen and slaughter it then clean it. I have 1000 in the pen now. After I remove the ice pack I pour the blood into a big cup and drink it while I listen to some relaxing jazz. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub made with kid's fresh heart. Then I apply the blood facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes, I also rub juice of child's eye on it while I prepare the rest of my routine I always eat the eyeballs for the vitamin A content because it's great for my skin and overall well being.


:smite:
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I just throw down some EAA's with added Leucine PWO.

Then at home comes oatmeal, a range of fruit, and some skim yoghurt.
 
smeton_yea said:
only in the presence of carbs. leucine alone doesn't so take 10 carbs with leucine
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I didn't know that about Leucine. So would that mean BCAAs as well maybe with a banana.

Any studies or info on that would be great.

Jag
 
There is such a huge debate on this, that I feel it ends up coming down to "what is going to aid you in your efforts, depending on HOW you workout and to what intensity."

Personally, I feel great when I sip on simple carbs during my workout (ie: Gatorade powder) to keep me going. Then I do not feel the need to spike it after a workout as much and just focus on complex carbohydrates. The fat argument for increasing test and slowing digestion is also good.

Fact of the matter is...the big THREE are Protein, Carbs, Fat. So...maybe it would make sense incorporating all of these into the regimen. Obviously keep the fats healthy (pb, flax, fish oil). Balance out the carbs between simple/complex, and take in a solid dose of protein.

The only thing I am seeing here that I completely disagree with is the use of fruits POST workout. Fructose is not stored in the muscle, and is not really going to benefit you post workout aside from the fact that you will get a decent amount of energy from it. Focus on other simple carbs. Fruits before a workout are nice, but I focus on other sources.

Hope this helps some?
 
Hank Vangut said:
1. fat slows digestion and leads to a more efficient and steady amino absorbtion rate.
whey + carbs will quickly increases anabolism, but these effects are very short lived and shown to be wasteful. although amino acid concentration do increase quickly with whey + carbs, oxidation rates also increased, creating a steady state catabolism in which there is no change in overall protein balance.

2. fats are needed to produce testesterone and other hormones required for muscle building. post-workout, the body is scrambling to keep testosterone levels from dropping too low due to the rise in cortisol levels (the two hormones exist in a see-saw fashion; as one rises the other drops, and vice-a-versa).

3. fat helps maintain consistent and steady insulin levels. increased/spiked insulin output blunts growth hormone release that should naturally be occurring post workout.

4. a recent study compared the effect of whole milk, and a higher dose of fat-free milk (to match the calories of the whole milk) taken 60 minutes post-resistance exercise. whole milk was superior for increasing net protein balance despite the fact that the calorie matched dose of fat free milk contained more protein (14.5g protein, versus 8.0g in the whole milk -an 81% advantage).

the ideal pwo meal in my opinion is a mixture of casein + whey + fat.
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I'm not sure about the relationship between insulin and GH....other than that when the two are exogenously shot, they are synergistic and are both closely tied with endogenous IGF .
But i do know that slin blunts cortisol, and that is one of the reasons it helps in PCT.

So just on that fact, IMO, i'm for taking glucose or maltodextrin after lifting. But make no mistake i'm not advocating a fat free diet :)
 
2scoops isolate
2C fat free milk
2 TBSP Natty pb

this is what i have been doing as of late. Love it

Khadafi said:
I'm not sure about the relationship between insulin and GH....other than that when the two are exogenously shot, they are synergistic and are both closely tied with endogenous IGF .
But i do know that slin blunts cortisol, and that is one of the reasons it helps in PCT.

So just on that fact, IMO, i'm for taking glucose or maltodextrin after lifting. But make no mistake i'm not advocating a fat free diet :)
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Carbs are def essential post workout you gotta replenish glycogen and create an insulin spike to kickstart the recovery process
 
Anyone done the whole glutamine, glycine whey thing that poliquin supports. I've been doing just bcaa's and whey post-workout for 1.5 weeks now and i notice i'm getting leaner in carb sensitive area's (triceps, obliques) i'm going to keep going with this.
 
What is your drink look like? How many BCAA's? how much whey?

Right now, ive been doing the following protocol and have noticed quite a difference instead of doing the protein + carbs

2scoops whey
2C fat free milk
2spoonfuls of natty PB
CHAPS said:
Anyone done the whole glutamine, glycine whey thing that poliquin supports. I've been doing just bcaa's and whey post-workout for 1.5 weeks now and i notice i'm getting leaner in carb sensitive area's (triceps, obliques) i'm going to keep going with this.
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not necessariy. Try eating correctly thoughout the day, week, and you will not have to "load" your body full of carbs PWO. ...thats my opinion though.

Rah22491 said:
Carbs are def essential post workout you gotta replenish glycogen and create an insulin spike to kickstart the recovery process
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Carbs and proteins work better than protein alone..post w/o. High Glycemic carbs are very important post workout. Fruits / Fruit juice can be a good option and then there are wight gainers containing maltodextrin etc.. but not definitely ice creams and cookies.
 
msucurt said:
not necessariy. Try eating correctly thoughout the day, week, and you will not have to "load" your body full of carbs PWO. ...thats my opinion though.
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I agree with you here. I eat a solid meal 1.5-2hrs after workout. Pre-workout is WMS and Whey, and xtend during workout.
 
i no longer eat carbs and im getting bigger and leaner. i replace my carb intake with good fats. of course you can't eat zero carbs. my trace carbs from peanut butter, nuts, skim milk, and green veggies. post workout i eat 4 tbsp peanut butter (by naturally more. best peanut butter with almost a 1:1 ratio of fat to protein)
 
The concept of spiking insulin is just a BS way of trying to reinvent the wheel and come up with something sensational and new.

Insulin is a hormone that activates anabolism and is triggered by energy intake. Think of it as a catalyst. The thing to focus on is a steady, but proportional to expenditure, supply of food energy throughout the day. The necessary insulin levels will follow automatically.

That article is just relating thermodynamics to human biology. For those that opted out of physics 12: energy is the capacity to do work and it is conserved. That means that in order to increase the temperature of one litre of water by one degree celsius you need one kilocalorie of energy. However because no real system is 100% efficient you will need more than one kilocalorie of input energy.

Another example is the internal combustion engine. Only about 30% of the energy in the gasoline is converted to energy that moves the car. The rest escapes as heat.

The same applies for food. Different macros have different efficiencies as well as absoroption rates. So a 2500 kcal diet that is 40%P/40%C/20%F will have somewhat of a different effect as one that is 40%P/20%C/40%F.

In summary if these differences are not accounted for then we cannot assume that one calorie of food energy will have the same effect as another. However if you stick to one macro ratio and food choices and just move the quantities (total calories) up or down while maintaining near constant activity levels then you can easily manage your bodyweight.
 
I want to be a biggot here.

I believe the post workout carb complex should consist 50% of fast action carbs (dextrose) and 50% slow (malotodextrin) , as well as a respectable amount of protein. Carbs create insulin spikes, and help the soreness tremendously.
 
Theres a study floating around about how PWO is almost better to wait 45 minutes before ingesting anything but eating a large PreWO meal and PreWO shake. Ill see if I can find it.
 
Schecterx said:
I want to be a biggot here.

I believe the post workout carb complex should consist 50% of fast action carbs (dextrose) and 50% slow (malotodextrin) , as well as a respectable amount of protein. Carbs create insulin spikes, and help the soreness tremendously.
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Maltodextrin = slow carb?
 
I've been doing medium to low glycemic carbs post-workout for a couple months now and i find this approach is much better for me and my body type, i tend to be annoyingly carb sensitive. I'm currently using mini-wheats post-workout. Waxy maize only seems to be an option when i'm using it with P-slin, otherwise it softens me up. And i'm getting bigger, stronger and leaner, so don't think that high gi carbs post-workout are crucial.

Something to also think about is your body's hormonal response to training, when your squating, deadlifting, doing hit cardio etc your getting a huge boost in gh levels which your blunting by spiking insulin post-workout, no spike and you should have a bigger gh boost. I can actually see a difference in my sleep.
 
So what about, 44g of Whey, 8oz of skim, and 1tbsp of natty pb? Would seem to do the trick if you are eating upwards of 100g of carbs pre WO like myself.
 
No, they are not crucial if you have a good pre-workout meal.
Yes, they are beneficial, but I believe you can still gain just fine without it.. depends on your goals, body, and how you want to achieve your goals.
 
chaps, u are very similar to me......lately, i have been doing the following, which is tried and true

1C FF milk
2scoops whey
2scoops oats (use protein scoop)

I dont get crazy with the carbs, but just enough to get the job done. Work fine for me.

CHAPS said:
I've been doing medium to low glycemic carbs post-workout for a couple months now and i find this approach is much better for me and my body type, i tend to be annoyingly carb sensitive. I'm currently using mini-wheats post-workout. Waxy maize only seems to be an option when i'm using it with P-slin, otherwise it softens me up. And i'm getting bigger, stronger and leaner, so don't think that high gi carbs post-workout are crucial.

Something to also think about is your body's hormonal response to training, when your squating, deadlifting, doing hit cardio etc your getting a huge boost in gh levels which your blunting by spiking insulin post-workout, no spike and you should have a bigger gh boost. I can actually see a difference in my sleep.
Click to expand...
 
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