Planning BIG cycle. Lots of questions. Please help.

LiftAllDay

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This is my first post ever. I've been reading this forum for the past year. So much great advice. For the cycle I've been thinking of running I felt it was time to serve it up to the pros. My goals are to put on good, quality, lean mass. Eventually I would like to compete in bodybuilding. Please any thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated. Even if it's just to say I'm crazy. Thanks in advance.
Cycle: overall length 16 weeks
Weeks 1-2: Sustanon *want to kick start cycle (250mg/week) Test E (250mg/week).
Weeks 15-16: Test Prop (week 15 500mgs/week) (week 16 300mgs/week) *so I can start PCT sooner.
Weeks 2-14: Test E (500mg/week)
Weeks 1-4: M-Sten (20mgs/2 caps/ED)
Weeks 1-4: Tren (20/20/40/40mgs)
Weeks 8-16: Epistane Andro (4caps/ED)
Weeks 8-16: Epi-Tren (4caps/ED) *thought about maybe OSTA RX instead (thoughts?)
Support supps:
Advanced Cycle Support: 1 week prior and throughout cycle and PCT (4caps/ED)
Formeron 1 bump/ED
Arimidex: .5mg/EOD (if needed)(should I take anyway?)
Fish Oil: 5g/ED
Hawthorne Berry: if additional is needed
COQ10: 100mgs/ED
Glutamine: 10g/ED
Taurine: 6g/ED
CLA: 2 caps/ED
PCT: 5 weeks in length, 3 days after last Test Prop injection
Clomid: 150/100/75/50/50 or Torefimine 100/80/60/40/40 (thoughts on which one?)
Formeron: 1 bump EOD or should I go ED (thoughts?) (Do I even still need?)
Thought on running Arimidex through PCT at .25 EOD?
Will continue to run all support supps through PCT.
I know I still have a lot of questions but I've been researching for so long and I think too many opinions have confused me a little. This cycle will be my third. So any thoughts, advice would be greatly appreciated. And I apologize for any taboo offensives in advance.
Thanks again.
 
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Skooter

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Doesn't look bad..

I don't like the idea of 12 weeks on Orals out of a 16 week cycle, but it can be done.. I wouldn't rely on that Cycle Support though if it's the one I'm thinking of.. I use Cel Cycle Assist dosed at 8-12 caps a day based on my cycle..
MW1 has some Cycle Assist for the low if you need more or a better option..
Otherwise maybe grab Tudca or just keep H2O intake high..

I also don't know anything about the Epi/Andro products or Andro as far as dosing so I can't comment on that setup, but I've ran Andro & Epi and there mild enough, so that's up to you..
 
Skooter

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I'd use the Adex an save the Formeron for another time as well..

Clomid will work just fine, I'd adjust those doses though, there a little high.. Maybe start at 100 and go down.. I like the 5 week PCT length, I do 5-6 myself..

An bump that Tren way up, double the dosage..

I probably missed some things others will grab, that's a big post...
 
Dma378

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I'm sure he meant Epi-Andro, which is epiandrosterone, not anything to do with Epistane. Just making sure he knows what the compounds are he's talking about.
 
Skooter

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I'm gunna look it up in a few, I've never read into it.. I'm sure your right tho..

Depending on that Tren dosage to Id grab some Inhibit-P or L-Dopa & P5P etc
 
Tabascoonall

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I'm sure he meant Epi-Andro, which is epiandrosterone, not anything to do with Epistane. Just making sure he knows what the compounds are he's talking about.
I think he did mean that. Epi-andro is great to run during a cut. Converts to DHT Im pretty sure
 

LiftAllDay

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Thanks guys for all the feedback. Skooter I looked up Tudca and that is an awesome product. Would you recommend taking that in addition to a cycle support? Have you had any experience with N2Guard? Just curious why would you go with Cel Cycle assist over the iron mag labs advanced cycle support?
The Epistane Andro product by iron mag labs was the one I was referring to. Not sure if that makes a difference in the discussion?
Ok I will adjust my Clomid dosage. Also I forgot to ask. Is there a need to run Tamoxifen in the background of my PCT at say .5mg EOD?
 

LiftAllDay

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I will bump up Tren dose. Should I start at 80 or go 60/80/80/60?
Skooter great product recommends. I've never heard of those I will pick up some L-Dopa and p5p for sure.
Thanks again
 
Tabascoonall

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Thanks guys for all the feedback. Skooter I looked up Tudca and that is an awesome product. Would you recommend taking that in addition to a cycle support? Have you had any experience with N2Guard? Just curious why would you go with Cel Cycle assist over the iron mag labs advanced cycle support? The Epistane Andro product by iron mag labs was the one I was referring to. Not sure if that makes a difference in the discussion? Ok I will adjust my Clomid dosage. Also I forgot to ask. Is there a need to run Tamoxifen in the background of my PCT at say .5mg EOD?
I know amr1care pro by Olympus labs had tudca in it. (98% sure I spelled the product wrong) but that's what I ran during my cycle as cycle support. Worth taking a look at. Or you can get cycle support and just buy tudca separate.
 
Dma378

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Thanks guys for all the feedback. Skooter I looked up Tudca and that is an awesome product. Would you recommend taking that in addition to a cycle support? Have you had any experience with N2Guard? Just curious why would you go with Cel Cycle assist over the iron mag labs advanced cycle support?
The Epistane Andro product by iron mag labs was the one I was referring to. Not sure if that makes a difference in the discussion?
Ok I will adjust my Clomid dosage. Also I forgot to ask. Is there a need to run Tamoxifen in the background of my PCT at say .5mg EOD?
I want you to know that Epi-Andro is not Epistane Andro. The product you are speaking of is Epiandrosterone. Please know what you are taking. Not trying to be a dick. You're not the first person I've seen that assumed the "epi" in the name meant Epistane. It does not.
Now that doesn't mean it doesn't have a place in your cycle, but just know it's not an Epistane product.
 

LiftAllDay

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Of course. And I totally appreciate it. The product label does say Epistane Andro. The ingredients are 3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol-17-one at 50mg and 6,7-dihydroxybergamottin at 15mg and pepper extract 5mg. Is this a different product?
 
Tabascoonall

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Of course. And I totally appreciate it. The product label does say Epistane Andro. The ingredients are 3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol-17-one at 50mg and 6,7-dihydroxybergamottin at 15mg and pepper extract 5mg. Is this a different product?
Is it by ironmaglabs? i have 4 bottles in my house right now and they all say "epi-Andro" on the front
 
Skooter

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Thanks guys for all the feedback. Skooter I looked up Tudca and that is an awesome product. Would you recommend taking that in addition to a cycle support? Have you had any experience with N2Guard? Just curious why would you go with Cel Cycle assist over the iron mag labs advanced cycle support? The Epistane Andro product by iron mag labs was the one I was referring to. Not sure if that makes a difference in the discussion? Ok I will adjust my Clomid dosage. Also I forgot to ask. Is there a need to run Tamoxifen in the background of my PCT at say .5mg EOD?
CEL Cycle Assist has been proven to work time & time again.. You can get it for under $25 for 240 caps an it's a quality product.. I'm not a fan of IML period personally and from what I've gathered N2Guard is overpriced and overrated..
( only from what I've read )
Tudca is a legit product and you can use it with your cycle support..

Clomid alone should be fine for pct, however I do use 2 serms myself sometimes based on the cycle or how I feel in pct.. I get serms from a source for a few bucks, so I don't mind..

I will bump up Tren dose. Should I start at 80 or go 60/80/80/60? Skooter great product recommends. I've never heard of those I will pick up some L-Dopa and p5p for sure. Thanks
again
I'd start the Tren at 80 and go up from there..
Tren can raise prolactin levels and give you a leak so you'll want to keep that in check and the items I stated can help in that aspect..
 

LiftAllDay

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Skooter awesome! Thanks again.
Yes it is by Iron Mag Labs and it says "Epistane Andro" on the label.
Is that a different product than what you're thinking? Should I sub it out for something else?
 
Skooter

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Skooter awesome! Thanks again. Yes it is by Iron Mag Labs and it says "Epistane Andro" on the label. Is that a different product than what you're thinking? Should I sub it out for something else?
No clue on the product, the other guys seem to know what it is so I'm sure they'll help you out..

No problem brotha..
 
Tabascoonall

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ok this is what mine says on the back of the bottle which is labeled "Epi-Andro rx' soooo if yours DOES match up I'm at a loss at why yours front label is different
Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 4.26.24 PM.png

Screen Shot 2015-02-20 at 4.28.56 PM.png
 

LiftAllDay

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Mine almost matches up perfectly. Except for the first compound is missing the 17. Mine is 3b-hydroxy-androstane-3b-ol, 17-one. The label says "Epistane Andro" not sure if that's significant. I wonder if is the same. I'm kinda soured on taking this compound now.
Do you guys think this cycle is a little "kitchen sink"? Am I throwing too much in the pot? Am I askig too much?
 
vujade

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ironmaglabs_epistane_andro.jpg


I've seen IML bottles use Epistane Andro... very misleading..
 
Tabascoonall

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<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=114925"/> I've seen IML bottles use Epistane Andro... very misleading..
I saw the same thing on google images. It is mind boggling. My only guess would be that they had epistane in it before and they reformulated it. But that's just a guess, I would contact IML I know they have a rep on This forum I have talked to him before, I'll message him and ask.
 
vujade

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when i first seen it, it confused the heck out of me.. coouldnt understand why they were calling Epi Andro Epistane Andro :pat:
 
Skooter

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That's the bottle I've always seen and I honestly thought it was Epistane & Andro for real..
That's ****ed up, another reason for not liking IML..
 

LiftAllDay

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Would Proviron be worth running or would that be too much?
 
jmyers

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From my research, both "so called" products have the same ingredients. The only difference is the misleading label of epistane-andro
 

LiftAllDay

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Yes very misleading. Epistane no where to be found. Although it's not all for not. I have been on the prohormone database for the past two days getting some education.
Thanks again for all the advice and insight fellas. Can't wait to start in May. I'll post bloods and transformation log. Thanks again
 

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