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plain old 1-T might have been rotting your liver all along

phaeton66

phaeton66

Member
I found this via t-nation:

Invalid Link Removed

I haven't read the full article yet (I don't feel like shelling out the $30 for it, or walking to the local Uni to see if they subscribe to Toxicology Letters), but it looks like 1-T is pretty hard on the liver, even without the methylation.

I remember reading some dude on the 1fast400 forums complaining about a wonky liver and lipids after a heavy cycle of 1-T (or 1-AD, I can't remember that clearly): people were telling him he was some kind of unique freak of nature. Maybe he was just the only one paying attention.

I never touched the stuff myself, but did a bit of 4-AD. It would be interesting to see what a heavy transdermal cycle of that does to the liver + lipids. Especially since I have a bunch lying around. In principle, 4-AD should be decent on the liver and lipids, like the testosterone it is a precursor to, but in practise ... who knows?
 
If you went overboard and did more than 500mg ED oral, I'm sure there would be some bad results.

Following proper dosing and taking appropriate PCT (including liver pct), every post with BW I've seen has been good.

Take cycle support :D
 
phaeton66 said:
I found this via t-nation:

Invalid Link Removed

I haven't read the full article yet (I don't feel like shelling out the $30 for it, or walking to the local Uni to see if they subscribe to Toxicology Letters), but it looks like 1-T is pretty hard on the liver, even without the methylation.

I remember reading some dude on the 1fast400 forums complaining about a wonky liver and lipids after a heavy cycle of 1-T (or 1-AD, I can't remember that clearly): people were telling him he was some kind of unique freak of nature. Maybe he was just the only one paying attention.

I never touched the stuff myself, but did a bit of 4-AD. It would be interesting to see what a heavy transdermal cycle of that does to the liver + lipids. Especially since I have a bunch lying around. In principle, 4-AD should be decent on the liver and lipids, like the testosterone it is a precursor to, but in practise ... who knows?
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all I saw was a mention of increased liver wieght. that means nothing really except it increased the wieght of the liver. There are several things that can do that, cholesterol increase being one of them. and that was/is a known side of almost any steriod. to be honest that sounds like nothing more then a rehash of steriod alarmest bull**** to me
 
Even if that were even partially true why would you run it oral? Transdermal is the way to go with 1T. Lower dose needed and you avoid first pass. IMO
 
yeah this is great.

"It has to be assumed that consumption of this substance is associated with adverse side effects typical for this class of compounds. Therefore, a strict control of its ban is essential."1

How does this crap get past editors? Are we substituting scientists for politicians now? Essential for what?

So, I do an experiment, discover the binding affinity and affects on liver and conclude that we need to control it. hahaha

1 Friedel, A. et al.. 17beta-Hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one (1-testosterone) is a potent androgen with anabolic properties.Toxicol Lett. 2006 Aug 20;165(2):149-55. Epub 2006 Apr 18
 
Anything with that high of an androgenic value is going to cause a bit of choleostasis. Not a huge issue unless you dose extremely high or stay on forever.
 
I read that article and it did nothing for me. Posting that 1-test is a great and serious steriod is like reporting water is wet. But lets make it a newsflash, huh??
 
bioman said:
Anything with that high of an androgenic value is going to cause a bit of choleostasis. Not a huge issue unless you dose extremely high or stay on forever.
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I'm no expert, but this is supposedly not true of plain old T, which was why T-p was used as a comparison to 1-T in this study.

I did find the 1fast400 post I was thinking of:
Invalid Link Removed
Didn't find anyone else posting 1-AD or 1-T bloodwork.

I'm only noticing as people seemed to suck down 1-AD/1-T/4-AD/4-AD-EH back in the day without doing any bloodwork, wheras now a days (post M-1-T/SD) people seem to be worrying more about lipids and liver.

It's entirely possible people could be assuming their stash of 1-AD/1-T/4-AD is a lot safer than ... well, something else, and they might be wrong. I know I always assumed the only sides I'd get from my old 4-AD stache is extreme horn-dogginess, and eventual shut down.

As far as the political motivation of the authors, yes, no doubt, "steroids is bad" was a big part of their motivations, however, that doesn't mean they are not right. It's data at least. Data is good.

-phaeton66
 
DATA is good, however, in this case the data is not great. I read the entire article and I must say that the data portion was rather skimpy and relatively uninteresting. I doubt that without their ridiculous conclusion and their aforenoted affiliation that this studied would be published.
It's worth noting that this was published in Toxicology Letters and, although I am not familiar with the journal and it was indeed a full study ONLINE, it was likely simply published as a sort of 'advancement in brief' which would explain the relatively non-extensive data and report in general.
cc


phaeton66 said:
I'm no expert, but this is supposedly not true of plain old T, which was why T-p was used as a comparison to 1-T in this study.

I did find the 1fast400 post I was thinking of:
Invalid Link Removed
Didn't find anyone else posting 1-AD or 1-T bloodwork.

I'm only noticing as people seemed to suck down 1-AD/1-T/4-AD/4-AD-EH back in the day without doing any bloodwork, wheras now a days (post M-1-T/SD) people seem to be worrying more about lipids and liver.

It's entirely possible people could be assuming their stash of 1-AD/1-T/4-AD is a lot safer than ... well, something else, and they might be wrong. I know I always assumed the only sides I'd get from my old 4-AD stache is extreme horn-dogginess, and eventual shut down.

As far as the political motivation of the authors, yes, no doubt, "steroids is bad" was a big part of their motivations, however, that doesn't mean they are not right. It's data at least. Data is good.

-phaeton66
Click to expand...
 
phaeton66 said:
I'm no expert, but this is supposedly not true of plain old T, which was why T-p was used as a comparison to 1-T in this study.

I did find the 1fast400 post I was thinking of:
Invalid Link Removed
Didn't find anyone else posting 1-AD or 1-T bloodwork.

I'm only noticing as people seemed to suck down 1-AD/1-T/4-AD/4-AD-EH back in the day without doing any bloodwork, wheras now a days (post M-1-T/SD) people seem to be worrying more about lipids and liver.

It's entirely possible people could be assuming their stash of 1-AD/1-T/4-AD is a lot safer than ... well, something else, and they might be wrong. I know I always assumed the only sides I'd get from my old 4-AD stache is extreme horn-dogginess, and eventual shut down.

As far as the political motivation of the authors, yes, no doubt, "steroids is bad" was a big part of their motivations, however, that doesn't mean they are not right. It's data at least. Data is good.

-phaeton66
Click to expand...
That is the whole point it does happen with most steroids. I couldn't remember how to spell the term at the time but Bioman didn't have that problem, choleostasis can be caused by anything that whacks your lipids. Liver stones alone could account for the "significant" weight increases of the liver. This is so much BS that I really am not sure were to start. Of all the things they could have picked this was it? Not M1T or superdrol?

This reminds me of Carl sagan's book were he talks about the early speculation on the surface of Venus. "what can we see through the telescope? Nothing, Venus is covered in clouds. Clouds are made of water, there are lots of clouds on Venus, there must be lots of water on Venus" When they found out about the CO2 the figured that meant that the oceans were made out of seltzer. :rolleyes:
 
Long cycles of test and deca can stress the liver in this same manner. Taking Tylenol for extended periods for arthritis..same thing.

It's fairly mild stress and I highly doubt you'll see someone go into to choleostatic liver shock or jaundice out from it.

Worry about your heart going hypertrophic..that's were the real dangers are.
 
bioman said:
Long cycles of test and deca can stress the liver in this same manner. Taking Tylenol for extended periods for arthritis..same thing.

It's fairly mild stress and I highly doubt you'll see someone go into to choleostatic liver shock or jaundice out from it.

Worry about your heart going hypertrophic..that's were the real dangers are.
Click to expand...

My biggest concern with size is the extra work/ damageI'm doing to my heart and lipid profiles.
 
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