Phlojel feedback?
- Thread starter jxhopper
- Start date
tregar
Member
Using phlogel w/test base at a concentration of 100mg/ml, I will attempt to run a testosterone saliva test using one of the on-line kits you can order. I believe you can get two kits for an ok price.
By applying 1ml of the gel (100mg/ml) at around 9pm, then testing the blood levels at around 6 am the next morning, hopefully we will get a very high ng/dl reading. Send the saliva testosterone kit in to the on-line lab to have it tested, get results back in about a week or so, then post the results.
Then run a second trial again with the plogel at a concentration of 100mg/ml, will apply 2ml of the gel (this will be 200mg applied), check the levels the next morning about 8 hours later to see what the ng/dl reading is.
What I need to know is the approximate amount that's getting thru.
If its 40% getting thru, then applying 2ml a day (200mg x .40 ) = 80mg x 7 days = 560mg a week. (2ml is applied in 1 day in two 1 ml doses, each about 12 hours apart)
If its more like 20% getting thru, than applying 4ml a day (400mg x .20) = 80mg x 7 days = 560mg a week. (4ml is applied in 1 day in two 2ml doses, each about 12 hours apart)
On page 56 of the new book "anabolic steroids, ultimate research guide, vol1" by Anthony Roberts & Brian Clapp, he has a chart compaing the ng/dL readings reached with androgel (only about 10% makes it thru with this primitive formula) with
the readings that are reached with a 100mg shot of injectable testosterone.
The primitive androgel formula (100mg of test in primitive alcohol gel form would yield about 10mg of test that gets thru to the body)
reached a peak of between 600 and 700 ng/DL 7 hours later.....while the intramuscular injection of 100mg testosterone reached a peak of 1300ng/DL 1 day later, falling to about 600ng/DL about 10 days later. By 14 days later, the levels had returned back to a normal 400ng/DL, which is what the tester's level was to start with. This is a good comparison of a 10% thru transdermal to an IM injection.
The androgel level started to decline quite a bit at the 12 hour level and beyond, hince the need to apply a second dose to the skin at the 12 hour point to return the level back to high. By 24 hours later, the androgel was obviously no longer working, as the levels returned back to a normal 400ng/DL, which is what the levels were to start with (before the androgel was applied).
Hopefully, what I would like to find is that a 100mg/ml (1ml of the phlogel/test base) applied to the skin results in about a 1300ng/DL reading on the salavia test 8 hours later....this would mean that 1ml applied twice a day would result in what level of ng/DL reading?
Will it be 800ng/DL? or will it be 1000ng/DL, or will it be closer to even 1300ng/DL (like the 100mg testosterone injection given IM)
? Only a blood test or salavia test will tell us.
This is important because if we are only getting 20% thru with the phlogel, would need to use about 4 ml a day (2ml x twice a day = 400mg x .20 = 80mg getting thru in a day = 560mg of test a week).....
or is it that we are getting more like 40% thru? where we would only have to use 2ml a day (1ml x twice a day = 200mg x .40 = 80mg getting thru in a day = 560mg of test a week)...
Won't be able to do these salavia test for a few months as $ is tight. Maybe someone else could have a blood or salavia test done 8 hours after applying 1ml of the plogel at a concentration of 100mg/ml to see what there ng/DL levels are?
I do know that one day many years ago after i had applied a basic primitive solution of only Ergopharm spray (alcohol and isopropyl combination formulal with 4AD) and sprayed about 15 pumps over a large portion of my body, and had my levels tested, (all of this even after taking a bath the night before) my levels checked out to be 1280 ng/DL ! the next day, when the results of the blood test came back from the lab. (this cost $200 by the way, as the insurance wouldn't cover a test to check testosterone levels) I still have the lab results.
The Doc couldn't believe the high level, and thought I was on something for sure. My normal test levels are only about 550 ng/DL (late 30's)
Broc Landers reported in the beginning of this post that he got bloating from the phlogel combo whereas with the t-gel he didn't get the same effect. I will run some test, but it won't be for about 2 months. I don't have the resources to do a side by side comparison of t-gel to phlogel, but maybe one day in the future I will do this also. This would of course double the cost of testing.
For now (in a month or two) it's testing with the phlogel at a 100mg/ml concentration with 1mg applied, test the ng/dl level 8 hours later, and then the next week, test the phlogel at a 100mg/ml concentration with 2mg applied at once, testing the ng/dl level 8 hours later.
This should give us at least a start so we can compare how the ng/dl reading will fare as compared to a 100mg of test injection.
Ideally, we would like it to reach around 1300ng/dl 8 hours after phlogel application (this is equivalent to the highest level (peak) that the 100mg IM injection ever reached) to achieve the exact same effect as an IM injection of 100mg testosterone. So, do we use 1ml or 2ml of the gel twice a day (once at 6am, and again at 6pm) That is the question, and also, what is the ng/DL reading??? I want to know, and want to find out, to eliminate most of the guesswork.
I'll also attempt to post the chart graphs showing an androgel transdermal (10% gets thru of the 100mg applied) to a IM injection of 100mg testosterone at a later date in this thread.
I may not post much, but I have been reading this forum since the early days, and have learned quite a bit from you all, (my favorite of all the bodybuilding forums by the way) the least I can hope to do is return the favor, and run a batch of tests.
By applying 1ml of the gel (100mg/ml) at around 9pm, then testing the blood levels at around 6 am the next morning, hopefully we will get a very high ng/dl reading. Send the saliva testosterone kit in to the on-line lab to have it tested, get results back in about a week or so, then post the results.
Then run a second trial again with the plogel at a concentration of 100mg/ml, will apply 2ml of the gel (this will be 200mg applied), check the levels the next morning about 8 hours later to see what the ng/dl reading is.
What I need to know is the approximate amount that's getting thru.
If its 40% getting thru, then applying 2ml a day (200mg x .40 ) = 80mg x 7 days = 560mg a week. (2ml is applied in 1 day in two 1 ml doses, each about 12 hours apart)
If its more like 20% getting thru, than applying 4ml a day (400mg x .20) = 80mg x 7 days = 560mg a week. (4ml is applied in 1 day in two 2ml doses, each about 12 hours apart)
On page 56 of the new book "anabolic steroids, ultimate research guide, vol1" by Anthony Roberts & Brian Clapp, he has a chart compaing the ng/dL readings reached with androgel (only about 10% makes it thru with this primitive formula) with
the readings that are reached with a 100mg shot of injectable testosterone.
The primitive androgel formula (100mg of test in primitive alcohol gel form would yield about 10mg of test that gets thru to the body)
reached a peak of between 600 and 700 ng/DL 7 hours later.....while the intramuscular injection of 100mg testosterone reached a peak of 1300ng/DL 1 day later, falling to about 600ng/DL about 10 days later. By 14 days later, the levels had returned back to a normal 400ng/DL, which is what the tester's level was to start with. This is a good comparison of a 10% thru transdermal to an IM injection.
The androgel level started to decline quite a bit at the 12 hour level and beyond, hince the need to apply a second dose to the skin at the 12 hour point to return the level back to high. By 24 hours later, the androgel was obviously no longer working, as the levels returned back to a normal 400ng/DL, which is what the levels were to start with (before the androgel was applied).
Hopefully, what I would like to find is that a 100mg/ml (1ml of the phlogel/test base) applied to the skin results in about a 1300ng/DL reading on the salavia test 8 hours later....this would mean that 1ml applied twice a day would result in what level of ng/DL reading?
Will it be 800ng/DL? or will it be 1000ng/DL, or will it be closer to even 1300ng/DL (like the 100mg testosterone injection given IM)
? Only a blood test or salavia test will tell us.
This is important because if we are only getting 20% thru with the phlogel, would need to use about 4 ml a day (2ml x twice a day = 400mg x .20 = 80mg getting thru in a day = 560mg of test a week).....
or is it that we are getting more like 40% thru? where we would only have to use 2ml a day (1ml x twice a day = 200mg x .40 = 80mg getting thru in a day = 560mg of test a week)...
Won't be able to do these salavia test for a few months as $ is tight. Maybe someone else could have a blood or salavia test done 8 hours after applying 1ml of the plogel at a concentration of 100mg/ml to see what there ng/DL levels are?
I do know that one day many years ago after i had applied a basic primitive solution of only Ergopharm spray (alcohol and isopropyl combination formulal with 4AD) and sprayed about 15 pumps over a large portion of my body, and had my levels tested, (all of this even after taking a bath the night before) my levels checked out to be 1280 ng/DL ! the next day, when the results of the blood test came back from the lab. (this cost $200 by the way, as the insurance wouldn't cover a test to check testosterone levels) I still have the lab results.
The Doc couldn't believe the high level, and thought I was on something for sure. My normal test levels are only about 550 ng/DL (late 30's)
Broc Landers reported in the beginning of this post that he got bloating from the phlogel combo whereas with the t-gel he didn't get the same effect. I will run some test, but it won't be for about 2 months. I don't have the resources to do a side by side comparison of t-gel to phlogel, but maybe one day in the future I will do this also. This would of course double the cost of testing.
For now (in a month or two) it's testing with the phlogel at a 100mg/ml concentration with 1mg applied, test the ng/dl level 8 hours later, and then the next week, test the phlogel at a 100mg/ml concentration with 2mg applied at once, testing the ng/dl level 8 hours later.
This should give us at least a start so we can compare how the ng/dl reading will fare as compared to a 100mg of test injection.
Ideally, we would like it to reach around 1300ng/dl 8 hours after phlogel application (this is equivalent to the highest level (peak) that the 100mg IM injection ever reached) to achieve the exact same effect as an IM injection of 100mg testosterone. So, do we use 1ml or 2ml of the gel twice a day (once at 6am, and again at 6pm) That is the question, and also, what is the ng/DL reading??? I want to know, and want to find out, to eliminate most of the guesswork.
I'll also attempt to post the chart graphs showing an androgel transdermal (10% gets thru of the 100mg applied) to a IM injection of 100mg testosterone at a later date in this thread.
I may not post much, but I have been reading this forum since the early days, and have learned quite a bit from you all, (my favorite of all the bodybuilding forums by the way) the least I can hope to do is return the favor, and run a batch of tests.
tregar
Member
thanks jcam22.
yes, I will do that as well, I will have my base test levels checked a day or two before beginning the gel test. With my doc, i just tell him I want to have it done, then I show up at the lab anytime I want first thing in the am. The gel test days can be done by other labs if I so prefer, by using the on-line scheduling of tests at a lab nearby that they send me to.
**Does anyone know how reliable the saliva test are as compared to the blood tests? Has anyone here ever had an at home saliva testosterone test done where you then send it in to the on-line lab?
*2 of the on-line Saliva testosterone test kits are about $65.00.
*1 of the on-line scheduled blood testosterone tests (to be performed at a local lab near you with many nationwide locations) are about $70.00
*A testosterone level blood test at your local lab scheduled thru your own doctor can easily costs you about $200.00
I found this on a website:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Value Of Saliva Testing
How accurate is saliva testing compared to blood and urine testing?
Saliva testing has been used in scientific testing for decades and has been shown to be highly accurate. The World Health Organization has used this method of hormone testing in worldwide comparisons of breast cancer among women living in industrialized vs. non-industrialized countries. Many studies in the scientific literature have shown a strong correlation between the levels of steroid hormones in the blood stream and the bio-available (free) levels of steroid hormones in saliva
Saliva testing is the most reliable way to measure free, bio-available hormone activity those hormones actually doing their job at the cell level. Most blood tests do not measure bio-available hormone levels. In addition, saliva hormone testing more accurately reflects tissue uptake and response of hormones delivered (topically) through the skin, in creams, gels, or patches. Blood and urine assays significantly underestimate hormones delivered topically, often resulting in overdosing. When a person does the testing, we ask him/her to fill out a listing of symptoms according to severity; we also ask for information about menstrual history.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
**Does anyone know if saliva testing will give a ng/dL result? Or does it just check for "free levels" ?
Is there a formula for calculating blood testosterone ng/dl readings from the free levels in the saliva ?
To be on the safe side, i may just want to stick to having blood tests done instead of the saliva test. I am leaning more towards having blood tests done, instead of the salvia test for each of the trials.
I have been lifting naturally for quite some time now.
From Gym Rat to Lab Rat.
P.S. by the way, if you google "testosterone blood tests" you will see that there are a few places that will schedule a lab you live by to perform blood tests for you for about $80.00 or so.
Give me about two months and I'll report back, of course keeping my eye on this and other threads the whole while.
I will schedule the blood tests to take place inbetween 6 and 8 hours after the phlogel is applied, (by applying at midnight, or 1 am, i will be ready for testing at 8am, you know I'll be the first one in the lab..!)
This period (6 to 8 hours later is when the gel should be peaking at its highest levels according to the androgel charts anyways).
***Applying 1.5 ML of the gel twice a day:
***A test I would very much like to perform is to see what the ng/DL levels rise to 6 to 8 hours later after 1.5ml of the 100mg/ml test base in phlogel concentration applied. If 40% gets thru, this means that (150mg (1.5ml of the gel) applied twice a day = 300mg a day x .40 = 120mg in a day x 7 = 840mg...if we assume that 30% gets thru, this means that (150mg applied twice a day = 300mg a day x .30 = 90mg a day x 7 = 630mg a week...this level of 90mg in a day getting thru would be pretty close to a 100mg testosterone injection. I am very curious to see if 150mg of phlogel w test base results in a 1300ng/dl reading or higher after about 6 to 8 hours.
P.S. jcam22, I liked the advice you posted about using igf by loading the slin syringe with around 40mcg or whatever the concentration of igf first, then loading the b-12 in after it (and moving the syringe back and forth to mix) to avoid getting any water in the igf container, thereby ruining it. (This is of course useful if you don't want to add 2ml of AA to the 1ml/igf to bring it up to 3ml concentration)
AA is getting a little harder to find, and it looks like bacteriostatic water or b-12 is a good option if you prefer to backload, etc.)
yes, I will do that as well, I will have my base test levels checked a day or two before beginning the gel test. With my doc, i just tell him I want to have it done, then I show up at the lab anytime I want first thing in the am. The gel test days can be done by other labs if I so prefer, by using the on-line scheduling of tests at a lab nearby that they send me to.
**Does anyone know how reliable the saliva test are as compared to the blood tests? Has anyone here ever had an at home saliva testosterone test done where you then send it in to the on-line lab?
*2 of the on-line Saliva testosterone test kits are about $65.00.
*1 of the on-line scheduled blood testosterone tests (to be performed at a local lab near you with many nationwide locations) are about $70.00
*A testosterone level blood test at your local lab scheduled thru your own doctor can easily costs you about $200.00
I found this on a website:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Value Of Saliva Testing
How accurate is saliva testing compared to blood and urine testing?
Saliva testing has been used in scientific testing for decades and has been shown to be highly accurate. The World Health Organization has used this method of hormone testing in worldwide comparisons of breast cancer among women living in industrialized vs. non-industrialized countries. Many studies in the scientific literature have shown a strong correlation between the levels of steroid hormones in the blood stream and the bio-available (free) levels of steroid hormones in saliva
Saliva testing is the most reliable way to measure free, bio-available hormone activity those hormones actually doing their job at the cell level. Most blood tests do not measure bio-available hormone levels. In addition, saliva hormone testing more accurately reflects tissue uptake and response of hormones delivered (topically) through the skin, in creams, gels, or patches. Blood and urine assays significantly underestimate hormones delivered topically, often resulting in overdosing. When a person does the testing, we ask him/her to fill out a listing of symptoms according to severity; we also ask for information about menstrual history.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
**Does anyone know if saliva testing will give a ng/dL result? Or does it just check for "free levels" ?
Is there a formula for calculating blood testosterone ng/dl readings from the free levels in the saliva ?
To be on the safe side, i may just want to stick to having blood tests done instead of the saliva test. I am leaning more towards having blood tests done, instead of the salvia test for each of the trials.
I have been lifting naturally for quite some time now.
From Gym Rat to Lab Rat.
P.S. by the way, if you google "testosterone blood tests" you will see that there are a few places that will schedule a lab you live by to perform blood tests for you for about $80.00 or so.
Give me about two months and I'll report back, of course keeping my eye on this and other threads the whole while.
I will schedule the blood tests to take place inbetween 6 and 8 hours after the phlogel is applied, (by applying at midnight, or 1 am, i will be ready for testing at 8am, you know I'll be the first one in the lab..!)
This period (6 to 8 hours later is when the gel should be peaking at its highest levels according to the androgel charts anyways).
***Applying 1.5 ML of the gel twice a day:
***A test I would very much like to perform is to see what the ng/DL levels rise to 6 to 8 hours later after 1.5ml of the 100mg/ml test base in phlogel concentration applied. If 40% gets thru, this means that (150mg (1.5ml of the gel) applied twice a day = 300mg a day x .40 = 120mg in a day x 7 = 840mg...if we assume that 30% gets thru, this means that (150mg applied twice a day = 300mg a day x .30 = 90mg a day x 7 = 630mg a week...this level of 90mg in a day getting thru would be pretty close to a 100mg testosterone injection. I am very curious to see if 150mg of phlogel w test base results in a 1300ng/dl reading or higher after about 6 to 8 hours.
P.S. jcam22, I liked the advice you posted about using igf by loading the slin syringe with around 40mcg or whatever the concentration of igf first, then loading the b-12 in after it (and moving the syringe back and forth to mix) to avoid getting any water in the igf container, thereby ruining it. (This is of course useful if you don't want to add 2ml of AA to the 1ml/igf to bring it up to 3ml concentration)
AA is getting a little harder to find, and it looks like bacteriostatic water or b-12 is a good option if you prefer to backload, etc.)
tregar
Member
Just a little info on the normal ranges of testosterone from lab sheets:
****Expected values for Testosterone ****
male..............ng/dL 241-827 (adult 15 years and over)
female............ng/dL 14-76 (adult 15 years and over)
Had a baseline testosterone blood check this morning at the lab scheduled by my doc, so I will know what my normal level is when I get the results back in about a week, then I can continue with the rest of the hypothetical experiments. They are also checking my "biological free levels"--the useful level that is not bound to protein as well as the ng/dL reading. Ouch, The Doctor's visit alone was near $75.00 because corporation's insurance has a large deductible this year. Much much more work for 1 person to do..sometimes the job of 2 to 3 people, less benefits, more crap to deal with..Corporate America is definately feeling the pinch due to global competition. I've never seen it so bad, and it hits home in the wallet thats for sure.
****Expected values for Testosterone ****
male..............ng/dL 241-827 (adult 15 years and over)
female............ng/dL 14-76 (adult 15 years and over)
Had a baseline testosterone blood check this morning at the lab scheduled by my doc, so I will know what my normal level is when I get the results back in about a week, then I can continue with the rest of the hypothetical experiments. They are also checking my "biological free levels"--the useful level that is not bound to protein as well as the ng/dL reading. Ouch, The Doctor's visit alone was near $75.00 because corporation's insurance has a large deductible this year. Much much more work for 1 person to do..sometimes the job of 2 to 3 people, less benefits, more crap to deal with..Corporate America is definately feeling the pinch due to global competition. I've never seen it so bad, and it hits home in the wallet thats for sure.
superstar
New member
how to approach a compounding pharmacist?
I hope someone can answer some questions for me. I have been using transdermals for years. I am now allergic to the 4Derm spray I have been using. I have 4AD powder that I would like to have mixed with phlojel. Could I go to a compounding pharmacist and pay to have a transdermal prepared for me?
Should I buy the phlojel and bring it to the pharmacist or let him buy it?
Should I remove the label from the 4AD and just tell the pharmacist it's bodybuilding powder? Thanks, Guys.
I hope someone can answer some questions for me. I have been using transdermals for years. I am now allergic to the 4Derm spray I have been using. I have 4AD powder that I would like to have mixed with phlojel. Could I go to a compounding pharmacist and pay to have a transdermal prepared for me?
Should I buy the phlojel and bring it to the pharmacist or let him buy it?
Should I remove the label from the 4AD and just tell the pharmacist it's bodybuilding powder? Thanks, Guys.
velikimajmun
Board Sponsor
Re: how to approach a compounding pharmacist?
I doubt you'd get one to go for it. Go to triceptors site, i believe its posted earlier in this thread and he has a how to recipe on there. It's pretty simple.
superstar said:
I doubt you'd get one to go for it. Go to triceptors site, i believe its posted earlier in this thread and he has a how to recipe on there. It's pretty simple.
superstar
New member
any home brewers live near Nyack, NY?
Thank you, Velik. I have read Triceptor's instructions. But I couldn't make a t-gel transdermal successfully so I won't be able to make the phlojel td myself. I also have formestane powder. I would love it if Triceptor or some other home brewer lived near me and could brew the phlojel/formestane up for me - for a fee. Do any board members live near Rockland County, New York? I just called a pharmacy about this but they said they only compound things with a doctor's prescription. They don't offer to compound supplements.
Thank you, Velik. I have read Triceptor's instructions. But I couldn't make a t-gel transdermal successfully so I won't be able to make the phlojel td myself. I also have formestane powder. I would love it if Triceptor or some other home brewer lived near me and could brew the phlojel/formestane up for me - for a fee. Do any board members live near Rockland County, New York? I just called a pharmacy about this but they said they only compound things with a doctor's prescription. They don't offer to compound supplements.
tregar
Member
Just got the results of my testosterone level lab back, and it's not good.
I'm age 36 and here are the results:
testosterone total = 309 ng/dL (reference range is 250 - 1100)
and % free testosterone is 47.5 pg/mL (reference range is 35.0 - 155.0)
My blood was drawn at 9:30 in the morning.
I'm going back this week to have another test done because I can't believe it's so low.
Anyways, looks like I'm a good candidate for testosterone replacement therapy soon. I will try and get in with an endo specialist if my doc can recommend me.
I will go ahead and do the 2nd half of the experiments here soon...with the test/phlogel combo at 150mg applied, then check to see where my test level is at 8 hours later, will be a few weeks, then I'll report back.
I will also apply 100mg, then check to see where the levels are at 8 hours also.
150mg applied twice a day at 30% getting thru = 90mg test in a day = (630mg in a week)
100mg applied twice a day at 30% getting thru = 60mg test in a day = (420mg in a week)
Of course, I have no idea what % is getting thru right now with the people who are using the phlogel/tne combo...whether its 60%, or 50%, or 30%, but hopefully the lab results in a few weeks from now when I run the tests will help us determine a little better where they may lie. I have no doubt that phlogel is very effective though.
I was working out on a 3 day per week, chest/tri one day, back/bi another day, and legs on a seperate day...but have been reading Beyond Brawn, Brawn series of books, etc. and will now
switch to a 2 day per week divided workout...with squats, bench, inclines, calf on one day, and then on the other day will work out hamstrings, back, shoulder press, and biceps. My workouts only average 45 to 60 minutes max.
Please note that I have never used test or roids in my life, with the exception of a few months run of 4AD about 6 years ago or so, so my low test appears to be a result of biology, stress (work 12 hour shifts), etc. I eat 6 times a day, use met-rx, whey, olive oil, eat low gycemic carbs, about 3500 cals a day. I have tried tne before transdermally before for a day or two, and do know what it feels like, etc.
According to a chart on the web, my levels at 300 ng/DL are equivalent to the average levels seen in a 12 year old or a 75 year old! They should be between 650 ng/DL and 800 ng/DL.
I'm age 36 and here are the results:
testosterone total = 309 ng/dL (reference range is 250 - 1100)
and % free testosterone is 47.5 pg/mL (reference range is 35.0 - 155.0)
My blood was drawn at 9:30 in the morning.
I'm going back this week to have another test done because I can't believe it's so low.
Anyways, looks like I'm a good candidate for testosterone replacement therapy soon. I will try and get in with an endo specialist if my doc can recommend me.
I will go ahead and do the 2nd half of the experiments here soon...with the test/phlogel combo at 150mg applied, then check to see where my test level is at 8 hours later, will be a few weeks, then I'll report back.
I will also apply 100mg, then check to see where the levels are at 8 hours also.
150mg applied twice a day at 30% getting thru = 90mg test in a day = (630mg in a week)
100mg applied twice a day at 30% getting thru = 60mg test in a day = (420mg in a week)
Of course, I have no idea what % is getting thru right now with the people who are using the phlogel/tne combo...whether its 60%, or 50%, or 30%, but hopefully the lab results in a few weeks from now when I run the tests will help us determine a little better where they may lie. I have no doubt that phlogel is very effective though.
I was working out on a 3 day per week, chest/tri one day, back/bi another day, and legs on a seperate day...but have been reading Beyond Brawn, Brawn series of books, etc. and will now
switch to a 2 day per week divided workout...with squats, bench, inclines, calf on one day, and then on the other day will work out hamstrings, back, shoulder press, and biceps. My workouts only average 45 to 60 minutes max.
Please note that I have never used test or roids in my life, with the exception of a few months run of 4AD about 6 years ago or so, so my low test appears to be a result of biology, stress (work 12 hour shifts), etc. I eat 6 times a day, use met-rx, whey, olive oil, eat low gycemic carbs, about 3500 cals a day. I have tried tne before transdermally before for a day or two, and do know what it feels like, etc.
According to a chart on the web, my levels at 300 ng/DL are equivalent to the average levels seen in a 12 year old or a 75 year old! They should be between 650 ng/DL and 800 ng/DL.
