Phera-plex dangers

[russianstar]

I saw this posted on another site, and as i hadnt seen this same post here i thought it would be cool to share it with you all.


Characterisation of the pharmacological profile of desoxymethyltestosterone (Madol), a steroid misused for doping.Diel P, Friedel A, Geyer H, Kamber M, Laudenbach-Leschowsky U, Sch?nzer W, Thevis M, Vollmer G, Zierau O.
Center for Preventive Doping Research, Institute of Cardiovascular Research and Sports Medicine, Department of Molecular and Cellular Sports Medicine, German Sports University Cologne, 50927 Cologne, Germany. [email protected]

Desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT), also known as Madol, is a steroid recently identified to be misused as a doping agent. Since, the knowledge of functions of this substance is rather limited, it was our aim to characterise the pharmacological profile of DMT and to identify potential adverse side effects. DMT was synthesised, its purity was confirmed and its biological activity was tested. The potency of Madol (DMT) to transactivate androgen receptor (AR) dependent reporter gene expression was two times lower as compared to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Receptor binding tests demonstrate that DMT binds with high selectivity to the AR, binding to the progesterone receptor (PR) was low. In vivo experiments in orchiectomised rats demonstrated that treatment with DMT resulted only in a stimulation of the weight of the levator ani muscle; the prostate and seminal vesicle weights remained unaffected. Like testosterone, administration of DMT resulted in a stimulation of IGF-1 and myostatin mRNA expression in the gastrocnemius muscle. In the prostate proliferation was stimulated by TP (testosteronepropionate), but remained unaffected by DMT. Remarkably, treatment with DMT, in contrast to TP, resulted in a significant increase of the heart weight. In the liver, DMT slightly stimulates the expression of the tyrosine aminotransferase gene (TAT). Our results demonstrate that DMT is a potent AR agonist with an anabolic activity. Besides the levator ani weight, DMT also modulates the gene expression in the musculus gastrocnemius. The observed stimulation of TAT expression in the liver and the significant increase of the heart weight after DMT treatment can be taken as an indication for side effects. Summarizing these data it is obvious that DMT is a powerful anabolic steroid with selective androgen receptor modulators (SARM) like properties and some indications for toxic side effects. Therefore, there is a need for a strict control of a possible misuse.



my only comments goes to the fact that in the study they say that phera is less anabolic than test prop and I thought the opposite and the problem of the heart weight, maybe its better not to overdose it cause the heart enlargement was greater than with test prop.
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Hope this provides usefull information to somone, take care guys. Russian

 

[HardTrainer]

It has come up at least once before. Bit of discussion in this thread:

Invalid Link Removed

 

[Iron Lungz]

It's always good to bring discussions like this up, though. Not everyone will find the older threads on it, and some people that may be new to PH's may find this to be enlightening. I know I would not touch this stuff EVER again. It's just bad news, in my opinion.

 

[HardTrainer]

It's always good to bring discussions like this up, though. Not everyone will find the older threads on it, and some people that may be new to PH's may find this to be enlightening. I know I would not touch this stuff EVER again. It's just bad news, in my opinion.

All steroids can affect the size of the heart. The trouble is no one's ever done this kind of study on any of the other legal PH/DS. For all we know they could all be even worse than phera in this respect. There's just not enough information to be able to make that kind of decision IMHO.

Plus, the influence of steroids on heart size has been shown to be temporary (much like all the other health risks from roids). It's yet another good reason for steroid users to get their health checked regularly, but personally I don't see it as reason to think that phera will be any worse for my health than any of the other legal steroids.

 

[muller]

^^Yes, I definitely felt the stress on my heart at the end of my last cycle through the first couple weeks of PCT, and this wasnt phera, it was my buddy MethylSten
I made the mistake of not taking red yeast rice this cycle, however, so perhaps it made the difference, but like I said the stress was definitely there and my heart almost hurt by the end of the day for a while there. Getting bloods taken again pretty soon to checkout my cholesterol levels..

 

[nickrut]

^^Yes, I definitely felt the stress on my heart at the end of my last cycle through the first couple weeks of PCT, and this wasnt phera, it was my buddy MethylSten
I made the mistake of not taking red yeast rice this cycle, however, so perhaps it made the difference, but like I said the stress was definitely there and my heart almost hurt by the end of the day for a while there. Getting bloods taken again pretty soon to checkout my cholesterol levels..

Masstabs? lol

This is generally a temporary thing, so its not the end of the world. should you pay some attention to it? yeah..is it really a deal breaker for pplex? not in my opinion

 

[muller]

hell yeah mass tabs.. I dont care what ANYONE says they rock man, its not like the 3 methyl blends everyone seems to confuse em for. Not only do they pack on some sweet size, low sides, but I just feel amazing when taking them too. Mannnnn I wish they'd re-release em

 

[Iron Lungz]

All steroids can affect the size of the heart. The trouble is no one's ever done this kind of study on any of the other legal PH/DS. For all we know they could all be even worse than phera in this respect. There's just not enough information to be able to make that kind of decision IMHO.

Plus, the influence of steroids on heart size has been shown to be temporary (much like all the other health risks from roids). It's yet another good reason for steroid users to get their health checked regularly, but personally I don't see it as reason to think that phera will be any worse for my health than any of the other legal steroids.

Yes, but studies for both sides are lagging. Everything is a theory at this point. Given values of correlations are biased to support what ever side you're standing on. So as of now, it's a personal choice.

 

[Dragon13]

hell yeah mass tabs.. I dont care what ANYONE says they rock man, its not like the 3 methyl blends everyone seems to confuse em for. Not only do they pack on some sweet size, low sides, but I just feel amazing when taking them too. Mannnnn I wish they'd re-release em

Ummmm, how can you say they have low sides when your heart hurt?

 

[HardTrainer]

Yes, but studies for both sides are lagging. Everything is a theory at this point. Given values of correlations are biased to support what ever side you're standing on. So as of now, it's a personal choice.

Can't argue with that.

 

[muller]

Ummmm, how can you say they have low sides when your heart hurt?

lol, after i posted that I knew someone was gonna point that out.. I really dunno, as far as all other sides - they were absent. It wasnt until I was just going into PCT that I felt stressed up in the heart, and that subsided so all-in-all I'll still say low sides.. I really dunno how to describe the feeling I had, but it wasnt anything that made me think I'd need to see a doctor unless it never went away. Bahhh, I feel like I'm digging a hole, but trust me its not as bad as that sounded haha, pretty sure it was a blood pressure related side.

 

[hardknock]

lol, after i posted that I knew someone was gonna point that out.. I really dunno, as far as all other sides - they were absent. It wasnt until I was just going into PCT that I felt stressed up in the heart, and that subsided so all-in-all I'll still say low sides.. I really dunno how to describe the feeling I had, but it wasnt anything that made me think I'd need to see a doctor unless it never went away. Bahhh, I feel like I'm digging a hole, but trust me its not as bad as that sounded haha, pretty sure it was a blood pressure related side.

So you'd take a stressed up heart as low sides vs a stressed up liver? Can't say I can agree with you there my man. The liver has a better recoup ability than the heart, and they heart is easily damaged, even in minor accidents.

When I dosed phera, the original (05-06), I never really had these tired, heavy, stressed feelings that some are talking about now a days. All of these products are clones, today, and we have NO IDEA if any are what they were 3-5 yrs ago. I would not even touch a clone in today's market.

 

[muller]

So you'd take a stressed up heart as low sides vs a stressed up liver? Can't say I can agree with you there my man. The liver has a better recoup ability than the heart, and they heart is easily damaged, even in minor accidents.

When I dosed phera, the original (05-06), I never really had these tired, heavy, stressed feelings that some are talking about now a days. All of these products are clones, today, and we have NO IDEA if any are what they were 3-5 yrs ago. I would not even touch a clone in today's market.

you make a strong point.. I never really considered my recent happenings when talking about mass tabs sides if im gonna be totally honest.. Its a kinda bite tongue moment for me.. lol anywayyysss :dl:

 

[lciaccio]

i never noticed any sides with the original pplex, not even back pumps and i didnt use any taurine etc. the point about clones is a good one

 

[Dragon13]

lol, after i posted that I knew someone was gonna point that out.. I really dunno, as far as all other sides - they were absent. It wasnt until I was just going into PCT that I felt stressed up in the heart, and that subsided so all-in-all I'll still say low sides.. I really dunno how to describe the feeling I had, but it wasnt anything that made me think I'd need to see a doctor unless it never went away. Bahhh, I feel like I'm digging a hole, but trust me its not as bad as that sounded haha, pretty sure it was a blood pressure related side.

That is quite probable. But heart pain is serious business, guess the choice of word there was a little stronger than what you were actually feeling.

I'd **** myself if my heart started to hurt on-cycle.

 

[russianstar]

Its interesting hearing responses here, i hadnt seen it before at this site, but i knew it would be here somewhere, It does make you think twice though, even though the point was made that this is a one of a kind study on p-plex, and im sure other steroids have the same or similar effect, wether or not to use it again.
Are health dangers worth 10lbs of temporary muscle? I personaly dont think so, if you have good health, keep it, you dont get many second chances.

 

[Dragon13]

Its interesting hearing responses here, i hadnt seen it before at this site, but i knew it would be here somewhere, It does make you think twice though, even though the point was made that this is a one of a kind study on p-plex, and im sure other steroids have the same or similar effect, wether or not to use it again.
Are health dangers worth 10lbs of temporary muscle? I personaly dont think so, if you have good health, keep it, you dont get many second chances.

I agree, but as always, the key is moderation. The study cited was done on rats; I don't know how much DMT they were given, I can only find the abstract, but I'm guessing it was a ton relative to their size. Anyway, here's some more food for thought:

1) Invalid Link Removed

-Notice that the ventricle wall size shrunk dramatically very soon after AAS use stopped.

2) Quote from Bill Phillips in the "Anabolic Reference Guide", 6th Issue (whether or not you think Phillips is full of ****, we can assume he knows at least a little something):

"*Enlarged Heart~ On occasion , the long-term, heavy steroid user may develop cardia hypertrophy. This enlarged condition of the heart can be very dangerous. This effect is diagnosed by a chest x-ray or ultrasound. Enlargement of the heart is very rare, but has been associated with the long term use of high doses of AAS."

One more:

3) Invalid Link Removed

Quote: "In this issue of Heart, Urhausen and colleagues report the results of a cross sectional study of cardiac morphology in relation to AAS use.13 Male bodybuilders/powerlifters currently using AAS or ex-users who had abstained from AAS exposure for over 12 months (U and ExU, n = 17 and 15, respectively) were compared to 15 weightlifters who denied current or past use of AAS (WL). Left ventricular wall thickness and cavity dimensions were assessed using echocardiography, and muscle mass (LVMM) calculated using the Devereux equation. Absolute LVMM measures (mean (SD)) were significantly greater for U than ExU or WL (281 (54) g v 232 (42) g v 204 (44) g for U v ExU v WL, respectively), with differences between ExU and WL only reaching significance after adjustment for body surface area or fat-free mass. These results suggest that AAS use increases the LV hypertrophic response to exercise, an effect which might last for well over a year."

Note again, cessation of use lead to a return to the mean of ventricular mass; ex-users did not show significant signs of cardiac hypertrophy.

So yeah, there are cardiac risks with AAS use. But those risks are fairly minimal if you are smart about usage. The people who should be worried are the heavy, frequent users. I don't think a cycle or 2 of P-plex is going to blow your heart up like a balloon. But if you run it (and/or others) for long cycles, and run a bunch of them a year, year in and year out, you're asking for trouble.

 

[russianstar]

I agree, but as always, the key is moderation. The study cited was done on rats; I don't know how much DMT they were given, I can only find the abstract, but I'm guessing it was a ton relative to their size. Anyway, here's some more food for thought:

1) Invalid Link Removed

-Notice that the ventricle wall size shrunk dramatically very soon after AAS use stopped.

2) Quote from Bill Phillips in the "Anabolic Reference Guide", 6th Issue (whether or not you think Phillips is full of ****, we can assume he knows at least a little something):

"*Enlarged Heart~ On occasion , the long-term, heavy steroid user may develop cardia hypertrophy. This enlarged condition of the heart can be very dangerous. This effect is diagnosed by a chest x-ray or ultrasound. Enlargement of the heart is very rare, but has been associated with the long term use of high doses of AAS."

One more:

3) Invalid Link Removed

Quote: "In this issue of Heart, Urhausen and colleagues report the results of a cross sectional study of cardiac morphology in relation to AAS use.13 Male bodybuilders/powerlifters currently using AAS or ex-users who had abstained from AAS exposure for over 12 months (U and ExU, n = 17 and 15, respectively) were compared to 15 weightlifters who denied current or past use of AAS (WL). Left ventricular wall thickness and cavity dimensions were assessed using echocardiography, and muscle mass (LVMM) calculated using the Devereux equation. Absolute LVMM measures (mean (SD)) were significantly greater for U than ExU or WL (281 (54) g v 232 (42) g v 204 (44) g for U v ExU v WL, respectively), with differences between ExU and WL only reaching significance after adjustment for body surface area or fat-free mass. These results suggest that AAS use increases the LV hypertrophic response to exercise, an effect which might last for well over a year."

Note again, cessation of use lead to a return to the mean of ventricular mass; ex-users did not show significant signs of cardiac hypertrophy.

So yeah, there are cardiac risks with AAS use. But those risks are fairly minimal if you are smart about usage. The people who should be worried are the heavy, frequent users. I don't think a cycle or 2 of P-plex is going to blow your heart up like a balloon. But if you run it (and/or others) for long cycles, and run a bunch of them a year, year in and year out, you're asking for trouble.

Sweet post bro...

 

[Dragon13]

Sweet post bro...

Thanks man.