PH Suggestion?

Nousername

New member
Hi, all.

Male. Late 20s. Ectomorph who is now 145 lbs. (started at 130 this time around, and 120 before that). New lifter - working with a trainer and in gym 5 days a week (for about 5 months now) on a pretty grueling workout plan - started with GVT and now switched over to something else. Been running MK 677 (from Iron Mag Research) for almost a month now - been making gains from it - was up 9 lbs. but just lost about 2 from water weight. Minimal lethargy, insane appetite when I'm on it (consuming about 3000 - 3500 calories a day - a lot for me). Increased energy and strength at gym. Using taurine for back pumps (they were insane at one pt). Good amount of bloating. And then of course have my creatine. And just finished up my casein.

I'm looking to put on mass (not necessarily strength) fast - in about 10 months (professional actor here trying to change the roles I go out for). I was looking into SARMS but it's hard to find legit info out their, product-wise. I've heard from some that the SARMS are the next big thing and that LGD 4033 (even though it causes suppression) coupled with 4-Andro and S4 is a great stack for gains. But, I don't think enough is known about them and it's hard to see any examples of these gains. Was looking into DMZ (since it is just an andro blend that is non-methylated) but heard it's not as strong as the old (banned) ph's were). And I don't want to do AAS.

Any suggestions on a good ph or stack for putting on solid gains pretty dam fast with limited side effects and that won't be killer on my body (especially since I'm pretty dam new).

Thanks.
 
Hey bro, first up are you sure you want to start using anything suppressive?

For at least your first 12 months training you’ll add size and gain strength simply following any semi decent lifting program.

After that the rate of progression slows year on year so 3-5 years in you’ll get more relative benefit from a ph than if you take it now (I.e you can probably gain the same you will from a ph right now anyway).

If you absolutely want to go down a ph or sarm route i personally went ph (been around longer and more tried and tested). I researched it and found a 1/4/epi andro stack run at 330/330/700-1000 mg pd was a solid starter stack (I’m aiming to gain and keep 10lbs of lean mass from an 8 week cycle)

I’m actually running my first cycle at the moment (it’s logged in the cycle logs section) if you want more info.

You must get a proper serm if your going suppressive mate, clomid or nolva generally recommended. Don’t start anything without that.....

Good luck whatever you decide
 
If you’re gonna take something I’d start with the only product available that is a testosterone precursor.

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Stick with just that and avoid anything exotic like a 17-aa aka methylated prohormone. Most people will respond well to testosterone and a 4-AD product will actually be a better delivery method than the pharmaceutical alternative (andriol, which is useless unless dosing 30 caps a day or so!).
 
P-mag is what you are looking for.
70-105mg/ed for 5 weeks.
P-mag (Promagnon) give's you great size gains with low sides.
It's methylated yes, but I've run it a couple of times and I've seen blood work and it's mild to your body compared to many other PH's.
 
Are you kidding me? You’re 145lbs and you’ve been lifting for 5 MONTHS; throw away your dreams of taking anabolics and go eat some food dude. Taking anabolics isn’t going to help you perfect your training and diet, that will take time and experience. Seriously go buy some food and quit looking for shortcuts.
 
And yet again, another thread not suggesting test, at least as his base, wow!! Got to get these guys smarter folks. Yeah he doesn’t want AAS but it’s the only way. If someone wants to correct me fire away :)
 
LGTWHIT said:
And yet again, another thread not suggesting test, at least as his base, wow!! Got to get these guys smarter folks. Yeah he doesn’t want AAS but it’s the only way. If someone wants to correct me fire away :)
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He needs food, not steroids.
 
And I disagree that you need to get to your max natty potential, that’s just insane. If your take steroids, take them, if not don’t take them, that’s it!!
 
Nope, not at all, explain logically why he shouldnt?? He’s not a kid, he wants something not harsh on the organs etc.. the best answer is test no matter how long he’s been in the game. If he plays his cards right with diet and exercise goals will be met quicker than if he didn’t indulge. It’s obviously up to him but this whole you need to plateau before going to the “dark side” is utter BS! Like I said, you take them or you don’t, there is nothing in between and it sounds as if he will be there anyway asking about stacks etc... We all got our opinions, but it’s up to him based off research what’s best for him
 
LGTWHIT said:
Nope, not at all, explain logically why he shouldnt?? He’s not a kid, he wants something not harsh on the organs etc.. the best answer is test no matter how long he’s been in the game. If he plays his cards right with diet and exercise goals will be met quicker than if he didn’t indulge. It’s obviously up to him but this whole you need to plateau before going to the “dark side” is utter BS! Like I said, you take them or you don’t, there is nothing in between and it sounds as if he will be there anyway asking about stacks etc... We all got our opinions, but it’s up to him based off research what’s best for him
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He needs to get more experience with his training and diet first; if he just jumps on right now, he’ll most likely just rely on steroids to do the work and not properly train/diet. Literally anybody on this forum would agree with me on that.
 
I do agree with you but we need to teach these folks that all these new so called PH’s on the market are not what they used to be if that’s what he is looking for “new age legal PH’s”. As you know AG, it’s all very much sub par. Epi Andro is ok at higher doses but realistically in the end if he’s choosing anabolics, Test will be the safest on the organs etc..
 
LGTWHIT said:
I do agree with you but we need to teach these folks that all these new so called PH’s on the market are not what they used to be if that’s what he is looking for “new age legal PH’s”. As you know AG, it’s all very much sub par. Epi Andro is ok at higher doses but realistically in the end if he’s choosing anabolics, Test will be the safest on the organs etc..
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I know test is the way to go; I’m just saying that Op is better off staying natural for now. He’s got plenty of time ahead to experiment with anabolics, but he should focus on perfecting his training and diet in the meantime.
 
LGTWHIT said:
Nope, not at all, explain logically why he shouldnt?? He’s not a kid, he wants something not harsh on the organs etc.. the best answer is test no matter how long he’s been in the game. If he plays his cards right with diet and exercise goals will be met quicker than if he didn’t indulge. It’s obviously up to him but this whole you need to plateau before going to the “dark side” is utter BS! Like I said, you take them or you don’t, there is nothing in between and it sounds as if he will be there anyway asking about stacks etc... We all got our opinions, but it’s up to him based off research what’s best for him
Click to expand...

At this stage of his training just eating right right and training hard (op says he has a trainer so I’m assuming he has a reasonable program) will give him the same results as any ph?

Why go suppressive when you can stack plates without?

Not saying he has to reach a natty plateau but imo he’s a million miles away from that.

Surely getting the first couple of years of easy gains is by far the best approach at this point......
 
Thanks guys. Not looking to cause debate here... but appreciate it.

I'm not looking to use gear, even though IK some of the ph's (even the legal ones) are more harsh with the sides and don't yield close to the same gains. I'm still open minded and not set on any one thing. I've heard the arguments... just hop on test (not going to). Just eat and that I have years of potential gains being a new lifter. I'm trying to figure out how to maximize gains in this 10 month period due to my work and potential work as an actor... I'm not sure staying natty at this pt. will help change up the roles I go out for in such a short period, but again, I'm not set on anything. Doing tons of research and learning from these forums too.

As for diet and training... those are completely in order.

Thanks guys. Appreciate the help.
 
As for my training plan... it's solid. And I am putting in the work 5x a week. Nutrition plan is solid too. And I am not looking to cut out putting in the hard work.
 
If the mk is working you may be better off sticking with that and a surplus in calories for awhile. Lot's of people run mk-677 for long periods of time. If you hit a platuea down the road then consider adding or switching to something new
 
No problem man. It's your best bet if you really want to avoid aas because if you start with sarms and andros then you will most likely start aas shortly after. That's just been my experience.
 
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