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Pain in shoulders !

Normski

Normski

New member
:think:Not sure if I am over doing things a little here but, I have been back training for about 2 months now, anyway what I am finding is my shoulders seem to be or have got quite weak. Hard to explain, it’s not as if I don’t have the strength to say bench press, 120lb or so for 3 or sets, 10 or 12 reps. Which not a fantastic weight anyway! What I am finding, is after about 2 sets, it’s as though my shoulders start to be very painful, not muscles it’s feels like the joints or bones, it’s almost like they collapse, like they can’t take the weight, no strength. And when I get home, if I were to sit down, and even use an arm to support my weight while I turn around, it’s painful! Any ideas, what going on here please. After say 2 days it's gone, but when I get back in the gym, very shortly it starts all over again.
 
do you train/do activation work for your rotator cuff and and upper back muscles around the scap?
 
front delt impingement, over emphasis of the front delt and chest pulls the ball and socket joint to the front of the body. Heres a simple test if you stand completely relaxed with your arms hanging at your side where do your hands lay.

In front of your body is major shoulder disproportionate development, leading to impingement.
slightly in front of your body is very common due to more emphasis on the front delt during shoulder training and chest over back workouts.
At your side is ideal with equal muscle allocation, strength and even back and chest development.

Weak rotator cuff's will allow this imbalance to cause bone rub, shooting pain and aches esp when lifting overhead and during presses and curls.

When training shoulders its imperative to keep your elbows above your wrists at all times when emphasising the side and rear delts. If the arm is able to rotate with the elbows low and the hands high you will simply be training front delts the entire shoulder workout. dont focus on lifting so high on side raises rather keeping the elbow higher than the wrist and with a slight but constant elbow bend.
 
Had surgery on R. shoulder over a year ago (had an impingement that they shaved a 1/2" of bone away to clear) I have pain anytime I start up again. As stated above it has been emphasized over and over to me to warm/activate the interior muscle before I start any pressing movements and I can't do overhead movements at all. I just take my big green stretch bands in with me and do a short activation series before I bench. Rcently my chiropractor (who also lifts) suggested only doing DB vs BB and to add just a small incline (no more than 10 - 15 degrees or so). That also changes the stress on the joint without compromising the prone angles.
 
The hang test

somewhatgifted said:
front delt impingement, over emphasis of the front delt and chest pulls the ball and socket joint to the front of the body. Heres a simple test if you stand completely relaxed with your arms hanging at your side where do your hands lay.

In front of your body is major shoulder disproportionate development, leading to impingement.
slightly in front of your body is very common due to more emphasis on the front delt during shoulder training and chest over back workouts.
At your side is ideal with equal muscle allocation, strength and even back and chest development.

Weak rotator cuff's will allow this imbalance to cause bone rub, shooting pain and aches esp when lifting overhead and during presses and curls.

When training shoulders its imperative to keep your elbows above your wrists at all times when emphasising the side and rear delts. If the arm is able to rotate with the elbows low and the hands high you will simply be training front delts the entire shoulder workout. dont focus on lifting so high on side raises rather keeping the elbow higher than the wrist and with a slight but constant elbow bend.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. I have attempted your hang my arms idea, relaxed when stood up, it seems my hands end up a little in front, not at the side, which also appears to be the most confortable in the relaxed position ! Ummmm

"Weak rotator cuff's will allow this imbalance to cause bone rub, shooting pain and aches esp when lifting overhead and during presses and curls."
:think:
What does this mean?????? how do I get it right. Thinking about it. when doing flyers or bench press, I often feel as though, my chest is doing almost nothing, whilest my shoulders feel like they are doing about 85 to 90% of the grunt! Very intersting!
 
Normski said:
Thanks for the info. I have attempted your hang my arms idea, relaxed when stood up, it seems my hands end up a little in front, not at the side, which also appears to be the most confortable in the relaxed position ! Ummmm

"Weak rotator cuff's will allow this imbalance to cause bone rub, shooting pain and aches esp when lifting overhead and during presses and curls."
:think:
What does this mean?????? how do I get it right. Thinking about it. when doing flyers or bench press, I often feel as though, my chest is doing almost nothing, whilest my shoulders feel like they are doing about 85 to 90% of the grunt! Very intersting!
Click to expand...


If you want to make your chest carry the load and take the shoulders out of it then you need to flex your upper back and lats to prevent shoulder rotation. by "sticking your chest out" and keeping it there it will stretch the chest and load it to work.
When pressing dont over extend, when your benching the top should be when your arms are straight and shoulders are still back, dont finish the lift by extending your shoulders upward and pushing it a few inches higher. This will load the shoulder on an other wise solid lift, if you have a narrow chest caivity bringing the bar down to your chest may cause the shoulder to rotate forward. Doing these two things will put the emphasis on your shoulder, and once initiated can be difficult to remedy as the shoulder stays stronger, gets used more and perpetuates the ongoing problem. When you train back focus more on a full contraction and holding the contractions at their peak. A solid contraction will bring your shoulder blades together and if you had boobies youd be sticking them out as far as you could. Then during chest lifts you will do the same within comfortable means and keep it locked to elimnate shoulder movement and rotation.
 
if* you have the typical i bench a lot issue and shoulder impingement than stength rotator cuff, lower trap work, and possible some soft tissue work on the pec minor. Dig into your pec minor with your thumb and see if you have a good trigger point in there...if so, get a tennis ball and lay on the ground and dig into there and release it. A cheap massage if you will. Worked great for me when I had weak inhibited lower traps with over active pec minor and a weak rotator. Also, my serratus anterior was pretty bad so doing some scap push ups in your warm up could go a very long way.
 
rotator cuff could be an issue but people tend to jump the gun and always blame the rotator (not saying you are wrong somewhatgifted just stating an alternate explanation i have seen so many times) but a lot of time its weak inhibited upper back muscles that can be the culprit. Or hell it could be both...shoulders are ****ed up. Once you get them healthy though its amazing. Took me a while though but once i got it i was good to go and my strength went...up.
 
Just from my personal experience here is some things that could help:

1. When setting up to bench sit down. In the seated position flare your lats/flex. Push the chest out, and shoulders back lats locked so to speak. Now basically fall straight back onto the lying position (dont hit your head on the bar please) while keeping all this form. Unrack and lift. Concentrate on keeping that position tight. Somewhatgifted alluded to something similar above:

you need to flex your upper back and lats to prevent shoulder rotation. by "sticking your chest out" and keeping it there it will stretch the chest and load it to work.
Click to expand...

2. Do rear delt work. I'm willing to bet you neglect it on a hunch.

Those are a couple of things I've noticed positive results from.
 
Moving on

Hi to all again!

thanks for the help on this one to everyone! Some good bits of info there I feel. I think I have got into some bad habits, it’s over 20 years since my last weight training period, so I am now a lot older, and it also seems I have forgotten shed loads too! I used to have great lattés ( if that’s spelt right). It gets a bit embarrassing, when my training partner is months away from 70 years old and he out lifts me every time on flyers and bench press, 30Kg each hand flyers, how good is that for a bloody 70 year old ( good luck to the guy)! And he’s only 82 kgs ( makes me sick):toilet: But, I am not a small guy, 227lbs 5ft.11inch high, 48 inch chest 17inch arms but still 41inch waist (ok I am working on it) opps!!! But I am 52 years old. Still, got the waist down 1.5 inches in 2 months, so moving in the right direction. I think as you have all mentioned, I need to tidy my routine/ method up a bit! I will rest my shoulders for a couple of days, and then when I get back into the gym, I will think a little more about how I am doing these exercises! :think:
 
Royd The Noyd said:
Just from my personal experience here is some things that could help:

1. When setting up to bench sit down. In the seated position flare your lats/flex. Push the chest out, and shoulders back lats locked so to speak. Now basically fall straight back onto the lying position (dont hit your head on the bar please) while keeping all this form. Unrack and lift. Concentrate on keeping that position tight. Somewhatgifted alluded to something similar above:



2. Do rear delt work. I'm willing to bet you neglect it on a hunch.

Those are a couple of things I've noticed positive results from.
Click to expand...

Rear delts are important you are right, but I am willing to bet this much more of a lower trap issue. Without proper training this will surely get neglected, while rear delt will at least be hit slightly when doing most rowing motions. But without full retraction lower traps dont get hit. I have seen this a ton with athletes, espeically overhead throwing athletes.
 
Good info, Thanks for the search button. I also have been experiencing shoulder pain in one shoulder my left, Seems or feels like it is inflamed. Hurts when i lift but has not taken to much strength away.
 
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