Osteopenia?

Kratom267

Kratom267

Active member
Anyone have osteoporosis issues before starting TRT regimen?

I'm 33yrs old...

About 7yrs ago (not sure what test was being done at the time), a doctor discovered that i have osteopenia...I was referred to an endo who ran a slew of tests but they found no actual cause. After I did some research, I saw that osteoporosis in men under 60 is extremely rare and the usual cause is low test...so i mentioned this to the endo at the time and they kept saying that my testosterone, while low, was still "in range" and not the cause...though again they found no cause for my osteo issue.
They put me on an injectable med (cant recall the name now), but after my insurance company dropped me, it was costing me over $1000 a month! Needless to say, i haven't been on it in a few years.
I haven't had any bone breaks, and physically feel fine (besides fatigue and no energy), but the osteo issue is always in the back of my mind.

I'm wondering if anyone on here that started TRT, had any osteo issues beforehand? And if so, did TRT help to strengthen bones?

I have an appointment with a new endo this week. As well as an appointment for a TRT clinic the day after...
Im guessing the endo wont prescribe me test, but hopefully she will look a bit deeper in to my osteo issue.
But the clinic on the other hand, just a guess...I'm sure they will prescribe me some test...

I know that there are very few (if any) actual doctors on this forum, but wanted to get some opinions on if going the TRT route sounds like a good option? Not only for my low test, but also for osteopenia...

(Labs drawn last week)
Free Test- 6.28 (with % free- 1.38)
Total Test- 455
Estro- 11.4

 
Are you taking an AI??? Depending on range, your E2 seems LOW...

DIET??? Do you drink COLA soda? ( it has lots of Phosphoric Acid)
Where is your D3 blood levels??? Ever research K2-M4 and K2-M7???

Do you eat dark leafy greens?
 
Mr.TT said:
Are you taking an AI??? Depending on range, your E2 seems LOW...

DIET??? Do you drink COLA soda? ( it has lots of Phosphoric Acid)
Where is your D3 blood levels??? Ever research K2-M4 and K2-M7???

Do you eat dark leafy greens?
Click to expand...

No AI, haven't used one in at least 5yrs. My diet is decent, high protein, lots of fruits and veggies.
At the time i was diagnosed with osteopenia, i wasn't drinking sodas.
Not sure about my D3 levels right now, but at the time i was seeing an endo about osteo my D3 levels weren't in the low range. Ive been taking 4000 D3 since then...
 
Probably the injectable was calcitonin? I have been long suffering from low test and osteopenia which led to osteoporosis.

I managed to reverse it with low dose of clomid for 6 months. Contrary to the belief of my ex-endo who said "its not suitable for your case". I went back 3months after clomid seizure and gave her the scanning results. She said something about not having ever seen a reversal case like mine, I said something about clomid and at that moment we both new we would never meet again
 
GreekTheBrick said:
Probably the injectable was calcitonin? I have been long suffering from low test and osteopenia which led to osteoporosis.

I managed to reverse it with low dose of clomid for 6 months. Contrary to the belief of my ex-endo who said "its not suitable for your case". I went back 3months after clomid seizure and gave her the scanning results. She said something about not having ever seen a reversal case like mine, I said something about clomid and at that moment we both new we would never meet again
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Clomid help your T levels or helped increase your bone density?
If you mean bone density, i dont see how that would be possible after only 3 months...even with actual testosterone.
 
Kratom267 said:
Clomid help your T levels or helped increase your bone density?
If you mean bone density, i dont see how that would be possible after only 3 months...even with actual testosterone.
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I dosed it for 6 months and stopped it 3 months before sanning and bloods as I wanted to be out of my system. my t levels went "up" to 370 as I am primary. Clomid is used for postmenopausal women to treat osteoporosis so I though I should try it with a low AI dose. It worked for me at that time-now I must find a new doctor to repeat scanning as there have been two years since then. Hopefully I have maintain my bone mass with lifting and diet
 
Just got back from a new endo appointment...got bloods drawn for a few things related to my osteo. She said "your test is kinda low, but its in range so I'm not concerned with that"...I asked her about my low estrogen levels and all she said was "your a man, so your estro should be low."

Got an appointment for a mens clinic tomorrow.
If they do think that TRT would be beneficial for me, think im going to do it. Regardless of my low test levels and estrogen level, i feel like crap ALL the time, mental fog and memory problems have gotten worse the past few years, zero energy and my libido is super low almost none existent.
I'm hoping that TRT will help with my bone density as well as mental/physical problems...After looking at some brochures in my new endo's office about medications for male osteoporosis, the side effects are insane! Vision problems, digestion problems that require hospitalization...and BONE FRACTURES in the hip, spine, and femur have been reported!!! No thanks.
 
What are the results of the bloods if I may ask? With such horrible side effects I would stay away too
 
GreekTheBrick said:
I Clomid is used for postmenopausal women to treat osteoporosis
Click to expand...

Really got any studies on this?

The only serm studies ive came across on strengthening bones is raloxifene increases bone mineral density. Ralox seems to take the cake as far as serms and making bones feel better. Ive never seen one on clomid or any other serms as far as I know raloxifene is the only proven one to do this. Ive even heard clomid and nolva take estrogen out of the bones making them a bit worse

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GreekTheBrick said:
What are the results of the bloods if I may ask? With such horrible side effects I would stay away too
Click to expand...

The endo drew more bloods, testing my adrenals and vitamin D, etc. And have a bone scan in a couple weeks...

I originally ordered the hormone panel for males, with CBC, Thyroid, Lipids, etc. All were within range. Only thing on the low side was my test and estro...

Free Test- 6.28 (with % free- 1.38)
Total Test- 455
Estro- 11.4
 
Just got back from the mens clinic appointment...Im officially on TRT!
The doc said that upping my T levels (as well as bringing my estrogen levels up a bit) will overall help with my osteopenia. And of course my libido and brain fog issues, and hopefully put a little weight on me.

He gave me a "booster shot" to start me on of 220mg Test C, and ill be picking up a 3 month supply of Test C on Tuesday...Is a "booster shot" of testosterone usual? He said it will quickly boost my levels up, then later after he gets a couple more of my lab results in he'll dial in the weekly dosage ill be taking at home, most likely 150mg weekly or 100mg 2x a week.

I have a bone density scan in a couple weeks, so it will be interesting to compare those results to another bone scan maybe in another 6 months to a year from now...

Pretty damn excited!
 
John Smeton said:
Really got any studies on this?

The only serm studies ive came across on strengthening bones is raloxifene increases bone mineral density. Ralox seems to take the cake as far as serms and making bones feel better. Ive never seen one on clomid or any other serms as far as I know raloxifene is the only proven one to do this. Ive even heard clomid and nolva take estrogen out of the bones making them a bit worse

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I haven't searched for studies, I just know here endos give clomid to women for this purpose and I followed their protocol. Ralox may be even better so I will try it if and when I am in the same situation again, thanks for the info. I thought excessive use of AIs will hurt the bones. There is a warning in every pharma leaflet as well
 
Kratom267 said:
Just got back from the mens clinic appointment...Im officially on TRT!
The doc said that upping my T levels (as well as bringing my estrogen levels up a bit) will overall help with my osteopenia. And of course my libido and brain fog issues, and hopefully put a little weight on me.

He gave me a "booster shot" to start me on of 220mg Test C, and ill be picking up a 3 month supply of Test C on Tuesday...Is a "booster shot" of testosterone usual? He said it will quickly boost my levels up, then later after he gets a couple more of my lab results in he'll dial in the weekly dosage ill be taking at home, most likely 150mg weekly or 100mg 2x a week.

I have a bone density scan in a couple weeks, so it will be interesting to compare those results to another bone scan maybe in another 6 months to a year from now...

Pretty damn excited!
Click to expand...

Excellent news man! I have heard again for booster shot but not very often. This may be an indicator that your doc wants you to feel better ASAP so he cares about how you feel and function. Otherwise with those numbers he wouldnt prescribe TRT. Follow your docs order to the T until you dial up everything-for at least 6 good months- and then you can play with doses or other stuff if you care
 
GreekTheBrick said:
Excellent news man! I have heard again for booster shot but not very often. This may be an indicator that your doc wants you to feel better ASAP so he cares about how you feel and function. Otherwise with those numbers he wouldnt prescribe TRT. Follow your docs order to the T until you dial up everything-for at least 6 good months- and then you can play with doses or other stuff if you care
Click to expand...

Yeah I plan on following the directed dosage! Sounds like my first lab check up will be in 6 weeks after i really start my injections...Hopefully i wont need to take anything for my estrogen later on...he said that since my natural estro level is fairly low (11) that I may not have to worry about taking anything.

Quick question, what kinds of supplements do you recommend while on TRT? I saw a post that taking Dermacrine is a good idea...something about how the DHEA and Pregnenlone "backfills in your hormones that may shut down due to TRT, and good for your heart and overall mood"...Or could i just take DHEA and Preg. orally to help save money?
I have a new bottle of Dermacrine, or should i wait to start stuff like that until i know how Testosterone alone effects me? Maybe start it after my 6 week labs?

But are there any staple supps that are good during TRT? Like zinc, fish oil, etc, etc?
Just want to stay as healthy as possible, and make the most outta TRT!
 
Also, while I dont care too much about testicular shrinkage while on TRT...Anyone take the herb Fadogia? I have a couple bottles of Omega "T Force" which is 375mg of Fadogia...Wonder if it would be a good idea to start that?

The doctor also mentioned that if i ever want to get my wife pregnant again (shes currently 12 weeks pregnant right now!!!), he could add in HCG or clomid...I had a bad reaction to clomid not too long ago, it made it hard to urinate and keep a good stream going...have no clue why though?? My PSA was tested during my resent labwork and it was 1.0 (range of 0 to 4.0) so he wasn't too concerned with my prostate.
So is it true that you can hop on HCG and your sperm count and sperm mobility will rise?
 
There is a lot of stuff that can increase bone density: HGH, Test, Folsamax, Vitiman D+K, weight training, lowering of gut serotonin
 
Kratom267 said:
Yeah I plan on following the directed dosage! Sounds like my first lab check up will be in 6 weeks after i really start my injections...Hopefully i wont need to take anything for my estrogen later on...he said that since my natural estro level is fairly low (11) that I may not have to worry about taking anything.

Quick question, what kinds of supplements do you recommend while on TRT? I saw a post that taking Dermacrine is a good idea...something about how the DHEA and Pregnenlone "backfills in your hormones that may shut down due to TRT, and good for your heart and overall mood"...Or could i just take DHEA and Preg. orally to help save money?
I have a new bottle of Dermacrine, or should i wait to start stuff like that until i know how Testosterone alone effects me? Maybe start it after my 6 week labs?

But are there any staple supps that are good during TRT? Like zinc, fish oil, etc, etc?
Just want to stay as healthy as possible, and make the most outta TRT!
Click to expand...

Dermacrine DHEA and Pregnolone are all hormonal so its too early to mess with them. Dermacrine most probably wont feel it being on TRT but DHEA and pregnolone may f you if you take them lightly. You should test with bloods if you are deficient in DHEA and pregnolone before you supplement with. As for supplements cant say a lot as Im not a supplement guy any more. Whey and some fish oil is the only I get
 
Kratom267 said:
Also, while I dont care too much about testicular shrinkage while on TRT...Anyone take the herb Fadogia? I have a couple bottles of Omega "T Force" which is 375mg of Fadogia...Wonder if it would be a good idea to start that?

The doctor also mentioned that if i ever want to get my wife pregnant again (shes currently 12 weeks pregnant right now!!!), he could add in HCG or clomid...I had a bad reaction to clomid not too long ago, it made it hard to urinate and keep a good stream going...have no clue why though?? My PSA was tested during my resent labwork and it was 1.0 (range of 0 to 4.0) so he wasn't too concerned with my prostate.
So is it true that you can hop on HCG and your sperm count and sperm mobility will rise?
Click to expand...

Thats true many being on TRT managed to increase sperm count and have children using HCG. Also clomid is an other option due to its ability to make you produce more test on your own. Many times they are used together but since you have that bad reaction your doc may prescibe torem besides HCG or what he thinks best, when the time comes
 
Im 38 years old. I had bone scan pre Trt= osteoporosis. Pre trt - vit d level In upper teens. Started trt + 5x5 training + d 10,000 iu per day . Bone scan 1 year later = ostepenia levels only. Had another scan 1 year later, bone numbers were stil Getting better . I was prescribed fosamax before trt, but the side effects looked too awful to knowingly continue to take that stuff . Trt definitely helped bone level numbers climb !!! Osteo may be genetic .
 
clayboy_123 said:
Im 38 years old. I had bone scan pre Trt= osteoporosis. Pre trt - vit d level In upper teens. Started trt + 5x5 training + d 10,000 iu per day . Bone scan 1 year later = ostepenia levels only. Had another scan 1 year later, bone numbers were stil Getting better . I was prescribed fosamax before trt, but the side effects looked too awful to knowingly continue to take that stuff . Trt definitely helped bone level numbers climb !!! Osteo may be genetic .
Click to expand...

Awesome to hear! I have a bone scan tomorrow so itll be interesting to compare it with scan a year from now.
 
Just got my bone scan results...osteoporosis level in my hip and osteopenia level in my spine...And comparing it to a bone scan done 10yrs ago, its gotten slightly worse. The doctor said, "Im hesitant to treat you with any meds, because we cant figure out whats causing it..." My vitamin D levels were fine though.
Meds like Forteo can actually cause BONE CANCER and spontaneous femur breaks!!!
I mentioned to her that my estrogen level and test levels are both low (which you can do a quick google of "low estrogen in men osteoporosis" and multiple studies comes right up), and she again said "well youre a man, your estrogen is supposed to be low, and you test levels are within range"...

Little does she know, im now on TRT. So it will be interesting to see what my bone scan is like a year from now.
 
Kratom267 said:
Just got my bone scan results...osteoporosis level in my hip and osteopenia level in my spine...And comparing it to a bone scan done 10yrs ago, its gotten slightly worse. The doctor said, "Im hesitant to treat you with any meds, because we cant figure out whats causing it..." My vitamin D levels were fine though.
Meds like Forteo can actually cause BONE CANCER and spontaneous femur breaks!!!
I mentioned to her that my estrogen level and test levels are both low (which you can do a quick google of "low estrogen in men osteoporosis" and multiple studies comes right up), and she again said "well youre a man, your estrogen is supposed to be low, and you test levels are within range"...

Little does she know, im now on TRT. So it will be interesting to see what my bone scan is like a year from now.
Click to expand...

I would also do a urine calcium test to exclude this possibility
 
GreekTheBrick said:
I would also do a urine calcium test to exclude this possibility
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I had one done 10yrs ago, had to pee in a gallon jug for 24hrs...fun fun! It came back fine...they also did countless blood tests, still couldn't figure it out. Apperantly im a mystery for Rheumatologist and endocrinologist.
Didnt have one done this time around though. She tested my vitamin D levels, my adrenals, and a few other things, all came back normal...though her idea of "normal" just means "in range"...the same way that she read my testosterone level and estrogen...though I tried to explain to her that while 350 for Test. might by fine and "normal" for one guy, with another dude at that level could be suffering physically and mentally. But of course she gave me a blank stare.

Cant wait for my bone scan next year...hopefully my bone density will be improving, so I can tell her that Ive been on TRT and have a laugh!

I've also recently been adding in Magnesium supplement, Calcium, and Vitamin D (even though my Vitamin D is "normal")...and using whole milk with my daily protein shake instead of water. Hopefully my bone density will slowly improve.
 
The sad thing is, while I dont claim to be a doctor of any kind, or have full knowledge on exactly how the human body works...It seems that after doing countless hours of online research, we are more 'up to date' than the doctors that require tons of money just to see!

My endo said "I'm reluctant to treat you, so I am going to call another doctor for a second opinion on what to do with you...But in the meantime, I'm going to send you to him"...I told her that she should just give him a call, and save me both time and money for another appointment! Again, the blank stare.

I also mentioned that she should do a quick google search for 'Estrogen and testosterone Osteoporosis in men'....but apperantly, shes too important for such things.

So damn frustrating. Its no wonder that so many men (and women) self medicate!
 
Kratom267 said:
The sad thing is, while I dont claim to be a doctor of any kind, or have full knowledge on exactly how the human body works...It seems that after doing countless hours of online research, we are more 'up to date' than the doctors that require tons of money just to see!

My endo said "I'm reluctant to treat you, so I am going to call another doctor for a second opinion on what to do with you...But in the meantime, I'm going to send you to him"...I told her that she should just give him a call, and save me both time and money for another appointment! Again, the blank stare.

I also mentioned that she should do a quick google search for 'Estrogen and testosterone Osteoporosis in men'....but apperantly, shes too important for such things.

So damn frustrating. Its no wonder that so many men (and women) self medicate!
Click to expand...

Yeah yeah, the sad truth about doctors.. I feel you my man. Been there in the past, be there in the present too. I once read a study explaining how milk and reach in calcium foods may extract calcium from bones and that it is better to get our calcium from veggies. I used to have a folder in my laptop with these things, if it has survived the formats through time I will post it. I think vit.E -among others- pushes calcium in to the bones. You may want to look it up
 
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