larkham
New member
Hey mate, I have pretty much have exactly the same PCT as you and was just about to run the same cycle. Looking forward to some replies.
Maybe you should keep drinking and send your hdrol my way!
Ostarine Questions
- Thread starter papapudgy
- Start date
Hey mate, I have pretty much have exactly the same PCT as you and was just about to run the same cycle. Looking forward to some replies.
Maybe you should keep drinking and send your hdrol my way!
AustBenny
Active member
I DON'T know, which is why I'm asking the question I guess. Just most of the info indicates it's a non liver toxic compound.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
At these bodybuilder doses, I've seen at least one person noting that their liver values went up a bit. Not as bad as taking methyls but their values did go up a bit. So there does appear to be some slight toxicity at these bodybuilding doses and cycle lengths.
It doesn't appear to do much if anything to my BP though.
Amberlaura
New member
yes indeed, that is why i kept a close eye on it. so far this has been the most replied to forum thread I could find anywhere. Was espcially having an interest at Fit1962's posts.
i gained a bunch of mass myself last three year, got rid of 32kg of unwanted bodyweight/ fat. and saw my fat fercentage drop from 29% to roughly 13% - 14%.
Achieved nice definition in quads, shoulders, chest but so far the one annoying me in that layer of fat around the underside of my belly. That is why i was looking into ostarine. trying to find out if i should go for that to cut the fat off while retaining or gaining some mass.
i gained a bunch of mass myself last three year, got rid of 32kg of unwanted bodyweight/ fat. and saw my fat fercentage drop from 29% to roughly 13% - 14%.
Achieved nice definition in quads, shoulders, chest but so far the one annoying me in that layer of fat around the underside of my belly. That is why i was looking into ostarine. trying to find out if i should go for that to cut the fat off while retaining or gaining some mass.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I have no concrete info, as I'm only about a week into a 12mg ED run. But as a precaution I bought Now Foods (now that I know they were part of the ban, I won't any more) Clinical Prostate Care, Liver Detox & Regeneration, and some TUDCA (Aegis). I also stopped an ECA stack pre-weight training (but still use it, and 25mg Yohimbine HCL, alternating days, for morning cardio), but I still use a PreWO (PreJym or Assault) - I "feel" fine. I had nothing with Hawthorn in it, so I have a bottle coming. I go way overboard on safety - I'm old (48) and paranoid, LOL.
Bottom line though, after reading this thread, is I'm dumping Ostarine and going 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA. Like someone said: Ostarine - None of the benefits, all of the consequences. Made sense to me.
Bottom line though, after reading this thread, is I'm dumping Ostarine and going 1-DHEA and 4-DHEA. Like someone said: Ostarine - None of the benefits, all of the consequences. Made sense to me.
Fit1962
Member
'
I had absolutely no problem with ostarine at 15mg Ed. I didn't gain as much as I had hoped, but that could have been because I kept my calories in check. However if I truly gained 1-1.5 lbs of muscle, for me at 52, and with no problems, ostarine seems just fine. I did have my blood drawn yesterday, so I will report back ASAP with testosterone effects. This could be my determining factor.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Yeah buddy. Good going man.
Fit1962
Member
Wow! Well blood results are in! On 15mg ED of ostarine, for 8 weeks, my testosterone dropped from 575 to 268! Estradiol 12.2 range 7.6- 42.6, fsh 7.3 range 1.5-12.4, LH 5.5 range 1.7-8.6. I started 40mg clomid ED yesterday (just because my liquid is 40mg/ml.) I sure hope it's not under dosed as I would like my test up quick! Doubt I'll run ostarine again with these results.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
IronMag Research or Hardcore Pep? Both are good to go. 40 mg of clomid ED is an ok dose as well. Don't forget to shake the heck out of the bottle before you pull liquid into the syringe. The clomid tends to crash (meaning uneven distribution, settle to the bottom of the bottle, etc.).
You're not too badly suppressed though considering how long you have been using it.
Fit1962
Member
Purchase peptides?
This is my plan 40/40/40/40 last 2 weeks 20 EOD. 6 weeks total?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
You'll probably recover in less than 4 weeks, but what you plan is a solid dosing protocol if you don't have bloods. The stuff suppresses but it doesn't seem SUPER suppressive ASFAIK.
As for your clomid, it's probably good to go, it's such an easily accessible substance that is relatively cheap, I don't foresee that many places selling bunk clomid right now.
alland
Member
you basically have 3 options in this game....non hormonal route, SARMS (some shutdown, non methylated, higher doses possible blood lipid affects, modest gains, grey area legally end user likely nothing happens) and PH/AAS (shutdown, most orals are liver toxic, definite cholesterol issues, legal issues, injections risk infections, stigma of needles, etc)
its up to the end user to decide what is worth it. I honestly dont give a F?*k what others do to their body. If someone asks advice i will surely lend an opinion. As long as SARMs stay in this quiasi legal state im game...maybe some 4-andro. If legality wasnt an issue. I would just go with straight testosterone as far as safety, side affects, and overall lbm growth.
its up to the end user to decide what is worth it. I honestly dont give a F?*k what others do to their body. If someone asks advice i will surely lend an opinion. As long as SARMs stay in this quiasi legal state im game...maybe some 4-andro. If legality wasnt an issue. I would just go with straight testosterone as far as safety, side affects, and overall lbm growth.
Fit1962
Member
If I decide to have blood taken in another month, and test is up, should I still low dose clomid to come off? I would like to know how clomid affects mine too.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Nope, if your levels are pretty much back to what you started with, your PCT is essentially over and you're back online. You could try low EOD dosing of clomid as a test boost of sorts but whatever boost it gives it's not going to be anywhere near supraphysiological thus it's not really going to equate to additional gains. You will likely have super sperm though because clomid could make you very fertile.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Thanks for the blood work. I think I'm stopping today and just waiting til the PH's get here next week.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Tbh, 268, apart from unforeseen issues, one could probably bounce back from that pretty easily without PCT... or need some help with PCT. That's always the stickler isn't it? The unkown factor 
Fit1962
Member
Lol being 52 yrs old, fertility is not something I covet! However, ostarine sure never effected my morning wood. I had libido and very hard wood, all the way through.
Next question, would it be worth it to consider ostarine at 25mg Ed? I'm assuming it wouldn't shut me down any worse? Maybe more gains? Or, do something like you 1-dhea, or maybe the sarm LGD? Thoughts?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
It may or may not suppress you more. It may or may not provide more gains (though honestly, really have not seen much feedback from people making good gains bulking off it, seems to do well for trying to preserve what you already have though). My libido though, went down the toilet from around the 4th week of running ostarine
Never tried LGD.
1-DHEA for damn sure was helluva lot more effective than the 24 mg of ostarine I was using ED. I only used 300 mg of 1-DHEA and 200 mg of 4-DHEA (as a test and estro base) and that was a nice little mild 6 week run for me. Probably get away with lower dosages of these compounds if you were to use those liquid version or the versions complexed with cyclo dextrin and what not (still will have to at least double the recommended dosing though).
Just FYI, I used IML’s 1-Andro RX and 4-Andro RX. Each bottle of 1-Andro RX @ 300 mg a day would last 10 days. So that’s how you can figure out how many bottles of that you would need if you buy that particular product.
sanmarino
Member
You are taking an anabolic compound and you think, there were no effects on the sex hormones or on the axis?
Your result are not dramatic at all, I honestly want to say, there are good in comparison to other blood works I have seen. It shows one more time: it's all about the dosage. Over 20mg/ed the side effects are extremly increasing, but 15mg/ed shows a optimal ratio.
40mg/ed is strong, but if you think you need it... At the end of all my SARM cycles I only used DAA and a Testbooster for four weeks and the axis (and the sex hormones) were normal again. Don't have panic, Fit1962. The values will recover fast. WIth 40mg/ed Clomid for sure.
The_Old_Guy: you are dropping SARM and want to use PH? Not very clever. You are over 48 years old (if I'm right?). The PHs will affect your prostata enormously. And there are much more side effects. Prohormones are in fact nothing other than real AAS.
If you want to play a guinea pig for research chemicals, the "safest" way at the moment (with the acutal knowledge) is Ostarine (and also not LGD, because it has also an androgenic effect, like S4).
And IF you are 48 years (or older), I wouldn't use more than Ostarine and MK-677. That would be the maximum I would use, if I were you.
Two Osta cycles per year should be okay (of course, we don't know it for sure, but I'm speaking of experience). Then you are on the safer way to give your body the cance for a real washout of this research compound.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
I dunno about 1-dhea really having too much of an impact on the prostate at moderate dosages. 1-dhea and 4-dhea are also not designers, they are real actual prohormones.
Faktalay
New member
Did you get your cholesterol and liver enzymes checked?
Fit1962
Member
No I just ordered the female hormone panel
Amberlaura
New member
Can't do the ph here nor the normal ones due to legal issues and the fact that i do not want to put a needle into myself (i know, i'm a *****) SARMS seemed the best way out as they are in the legal grey zone
Faktalay
New member
I will get a full blood work next week, and post the result. I ran 20mg osta ed for 8 weeks, followed by nolvadex ( 4 weeks) 20 mg. it will be interesting since your one before serm and my one will after it.
anabolix
Member
This is whats great about osta..you will recover quick! Notice how high your lh and fsh are for your test level? If you had used aas, your lh and fsh would have been crushed post cycle.
Fit1962
Member
I'm ignorant about them. How does having them normal help?
kissdadookie
Well-known member
It means your balls are still responsive thus easier to recover.
Fit1962
Member
Lol then that's a GOOD thing!
kissdadookie
Well-known member
Yup.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
kissdadookie
Well-known member
I don't know how much I would listen to a person calling 1-dhea and 4-dhea designer steroids... Just saying.
Let's put it this way, let's say you get respectable conversion of the 1-dhea to 1-test, 1-test iirc has the same effect to prostate as test. Let's not forget that 1-dhea isn't going to give you that high of an amount of 1-test at modest doses anyway. 4-dhea on the other hand converts to test and estrogen.
So let's see, that versus an experimental drug which people are taking in multiple times the amount of the max studied dose (ostarine)... Hmmmmmmmm. I wonder which is more questionable.
AustBenny
Active member
Thanks for sharing this info, Fit. The more knowledge the better.
Kissdadookie, given these results and some suppression, is it sensible to run a test booster during cycle? I have seen this suggested in other reading on ostarine but of course you can't believe everything you read on the interwebz.
I'm no expert but my wouldn't that further boost of test during cycle result in more estrogen and more chance of estrogen related sides, then requiring an AI?
Or just suck it up during cycle and have a good PCT?
Can I also ask generally, in the short term before you "bounce back", what does low test values mean for daily life? I'm not looking to have kids in the next two months but I assume we're talking no sex drive, no boners? Will it affect intensity in the gym?
Fit1962
Member
Even at 52, I have had no problem at all with libido or morning wood! Possible some lethargy.
AustBenny
Active member
Hahaha, sounds good although I'm sure my gf wouldn't mind a slight drop in my libido lol - I just don't want her to think I'm cheating because I don't want to bang her anymore!
Given the amount of time I've spent researching and reading over what I thought was a "harmless" supplement when I ordered it, I might do my best to do a proper log while I have some spare cash - meaning bloods before, mid cycle and after and also a DEXA scan before and after and log my workouts so there can be at least a bit of a picture about this stuff.
Given the amount of time I've spent researching and reading over what I thought was a "harmless" supplement when I ordered it, I might do my best to do a proper log while I have some spare cash - meaning bloods before, mid cycle and after and also a DEXA scan before and after and log my workouts so there can be at least a bit of a picture about this stuff.
Fit1962
Member
Excellent idea! Good luck
booneman77
Legend
I think you'd have a ton of followers if you logged this. I'd be in for sure.
AustBenny
Active member
I'm trying to track down somewhere to do some bloods now and see how costly it is. I was probably going to get the DEXA scans anyway as I always do when I start a bulk or cut.
Would be good to get something worthwhile out of it info wise. I've just spent I think maybe four times the cost of the actual supplement on support products and PCT, that's not counting the stuff I expect to use that I already had in my cupboard so at the minimum it'd be nice to know whether all that stuff is even necessary.
Would be good to get something worthwhile out of it info wise. I've just spent I think maybe four times the cost of the actual supplement on support products and PCT, that's not counting the stuff I expect to use that I already had in my cupboard so at the minimum it'd be nice to know whether all that stuff is even necessary.
booneman77
Legend
private md labs. There's a sticky thread about them here. It's like $50
AustBenny
Active member
Yah, I seen that but I'm in Australia - I've found a pathology lab that'll do them, will call them Monday to find out the cost - I just want to make sure they will give me what I need, those LH and FH values or whatever they are as well as total test. I might also ask about liver values while I'm at it.
Anyways, see how we go.
Grayson
Well-known member
Anything to report so far?
ddfox
Board Sponsor
Energy levels throughout the day seem higher. Vascularity is getting more pronounced even at rest. Maybe a slight mood increase too, but that may be from being excited & some good workouts to start my run.
larkham
New member
Mate you can get it done for free in Aus. God bless Medicare!
Go to a GP that bulk bills, state you're concerned about your test levels, liver etc.
Depending on the GP they should have a pathology inhouse or he will refer you.
blacklac
Well-known member
Like that Viron, HPTA and Formeron stack. May not even need the Form, tbh. Some healthy estrogen would be good in PCT.
kissdadookie
Well-known member
A test booster is not really going to do much anyway, so why bother?
Also, for fit1962, he likely didn't have any notable negative impact that could acutet be felt with the levels it dipped down to.
As for libido issues, individual dependent. Some might get a tanked libido some might not some might feel a boost in libido.
Also, with the levels fit1962 had, I would imagine that he would recover even without pct, though the clomid will boost him back up much quicker, no need for a crazy PCT either. Probably 4 weeks is sufficient with recovery probably happening even before the 4 weeks is up (gonads seems to be still very responsive).
ddfox
Board Sponsor
Maybe just .5 pump Morning & .5 pump Evening to start?
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
Yeah, I don't know (being new to this area of fitness) if mindandmusle.net is G2G or not, but there was article by an MD about DHEA based PH's and the Prostate. It seems, according to that article, that Estrogen is the Dr. Evil of BPH, and not DHT. The 1-DHEA doesn't convert to DHT, correct? So the 4-DHEA would be the only one that does. I plan on taking an AI on cycle (I have them all, including RC...have to figure out which is best, I'll check your notes). I'll also keep an eye on urination properties, LOL. Dribble, Start-Stop, Many late night trips... are the things to look out for, correct? Last night I stopped all liquid intake around 6PM, bed at 11, and only got up once at 4AM. I'm also currently on ECA, and I read that E HCL can affect BPH too, so I'm stopping that as a test as well. Today is Day 7 of 12mg Ostarine, I'm stopping now. The 1/4 DHEA should be here Monday.
I'm 7 days into this Prostate Care Product:
Vitamin D-3 (as Cholecalciferol) 400 IU 100%
Zinc (from Zinc Glycinate)
(Amino Acid Chelate) (TRAACS®) (Albion®) 15 mg 100%
Selenium (from Selenium Amino Acid Complex)
(TRAACS®) (Albion®) 70 mcg 100%
Saw Palmetto Extract (Berry) (Serenoa repens)
(min. 85% Fatty Acids) 320 mg †
Phytosterols (Plant Sterols) (with Beta-Sitosterol) 850 mg †
Stinging Nettle Root Extract (Urtica dioica) 240 mg †
Quercetin (from Quercetin Dihydrate) 250 mg †
Turmeric Root Extract (Curcuma longa) 100 mg †
Pumpkin Seed Oil 1.0 g (1,000 mg) †
Lycopene (LYC-O-MATO® Natural Tomato Extract) 10 mg †
Green Tea Extract (Camellia sinensis) (Leaf) 100 mg †
Pomegranate Extract (Punica granatum) (Fruit) 100 mg †
Natural Trans-Resveratrol
[from Japanese Knotweed Extract (Polygonum cuspidatum) (Root)] 10 mg †
LinumLife® Complex (Flax Seed Lignan Extract)
(Linum usitatissimum) (Seed Coat) 25 mg †
...and will take it continuously.
The_Old_Guy
Well-known member
I too had both Lateral and Medial Epicomdylitus (1 type per arm) and it feels better a week in on Ostarine. Now, I have been doing TheraBar (Green rubber bar that you twist for eccentric loading) therapy, so who knows if it was just that. It improved a little bit since Nov 13, but it feels A LOT better since Ostarine. Anecdotal, maybe placebo, but I'm not complaining!