Ostarine Questions

[snagencyV2.0]

It's like I'm 18 again, even though I'm only 24

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[Grayson]

I felt terrible lethargy while on osta but alphadex and maca pro helped that. I believe it's just the excess working out but who knows
Edit: highly recommend alphadex for an otc ai. Also maca pro is probably my favorite BPS supp as of right now. It's like I'm 18 again, even though I'm only 24

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[Jackedjack]

Lol I repped both of you

 

[jarod86]

I think one cap viron with topical form would be tits on an Osta cycle

I was actually planning this. With Form EOD.

Viron in pct also with form ED and perhaps Nolva 3 weeks.

 

[nEuT]

Just started a 5-6 week run at 25 mg end, running alpha max alongside and then torem/data/el1minate through pct.. Pretty excited

 

[haiz69]

Just started a 5-6 week run at 25 mg end, running alpha max alongside and then torem/data/el1minate through pct.. Pretty excited

Sounds like that should be a nice run. You could even extend it if you felt like it, especially with a strong PCT, which it appears you have.

 

[Contaygious]

Question if you are only supposed to run an ai like transform for 8 weeks then how do you run it on osta cycle and in pct too? Same with viron.

 

[Grayson]

Question if you are only supposed to run an ai like transform for 8 weeks then how do you run it on osta cycle and in pct too? Same with viron.

No one said to run an AI. Some prefer it, some don't. Personally, I don't.

If running it, start viron and Forma week 4 and continue for 8. This will last you the 4 weeks of pct.

 

[kissdadookie]

Question if you are only supposed to run an ai like transform for 8 weeks then how do you run it on osta cycle and in pct too? Same with viron.

Don't run an AI with your ostarine cycle, but keep a reliable AI around. Just in case you encounter estrogen issues (overly objectively bloated, gyno).

 

[ericool007]

On osta, I'm only tired the day after deadlifts.

It could just be your system trying to accept it/reject it. Then again, it's not that toxic, but it is a foreign substance.

Go one more week, and if you're still feeling crappy, junk it. It's not worth doing a cycle of you're always tired.




I did that with 11kt and just ended up hating it.

never ran 11kt, but i know 11 oxo basically same thing right? did make me feel very irritable and gave me zero results. I really wanted to like ostarine but as i said before it made me feel sick.

 

[Tagger]

never ran 11kt, but i know 11 oxo basically same thing right? did make me feel very irritable and gave me zero results. I really wanted to like ostarine but as i said before it made me feel sick.

Osta made you feel sick?

 

[Grayson]

never ran 11kt, but i know 11 oxo basically same thing right? did make me feel very irritable and gave me zero results. I really wanted to like ostarine but as i said before it made me feel sick.

Yup, just supposedly more potent.

Love AL and IL, but I didn't dig it.

 

[ericool007]

Osta made you feel sick?

yea i talked about it earlier in this thread. gave me an all day nausea indigestion feeling even when i wasnt eating anything.
maybe it was a stomach bug but it started after every morning dose and ceased when i quit taking it. I might try it again one day just to be sure since i have put my bottle away and started the new cutler King v2 instead.

 

[Contaygious]

No one said to run an AI. Some prefer it, some don't. Personally, I don't.

If running it, start viron and Forma week 4 and continue for 8. This will last you the 4 weeks of pct.

Thx I have seen a lot of people recommend transform so now I see how to run it.

25-30 without it should be fine though right?
Real pct ofcourse.

 

[Grayson]

Thx I have seen a lot of people recommend transform so now I see how to run it.

25-30 without it should be fine though right?
Real pct ofcourse.

Yup yup.

I'm on week two of 30mg and loving it.

Serm of your choice plus ai plus anti cortisol.

Form or exemestane should work. Exemestane is more potent obv and it might be overkill, but I'd rather be up and running then wait with a natty pct.

 

[Tagger]

I felt terrible lethargy while on osta but alphadex and maca pro helped that. I believe it's just the excess working out but who knows
Edit: highly recommend alphadex for an otc ai. Also maca pro is probably my favorite BPS supp as of right now. It's like I'm 18 again, even though I'm only 24

Maca is that good huh? Gotta try that ****.

and for AI I just run TransFORM.

 

[Jackedjack]

Maca is that good huh? Gotta try that ****. and for AI I just run TransFORM.

I'm usually a form guy but myokem products were just too tempting. And maca is great, I bought like five bottles when the intro sale was happening for like 14 each

 

[blacklac]

Hows the glycogen retention on Osta? Do you deflate much afterwards? I feel like I might be a little fuller than I would normally be, although my diet and activity factor has changed. Hard to gauge.

 

[kissdadookie]

Hows the glycogen retention on Osta? Do you deflate much afterwards? I feel like I might be a little fuller than I would normally be, although my diet and activity factor has changed. Hard to gauge.

When excess androgens are no longer there, you won't have all day fullness anymore obviously. Doesn't necessarily mean that you will lose actual muscle tissue though.

 

[Tagger]

I'm usually a form guy but myokem products were just too tempting. And maca is great, I bought like five bottles when the intro sale was happening for like 14 each

Damn, wish I could just try a sample haha.

 

[blacklac]

When excess androgens are no longer there, you won't have all day fullness anymore obviously. Doesn't necessarily mean that you will lose actual muscle tissue though.

Yeah. I guess I wasn't exactly sure the slight increase in fullness was from the Osta or increased calories.



Right around the time I started Osta, I got a 2nd job that has me on my feet all shift. So my energy expenditure went way up. I'm eating what I used to bulk on, now, and I'm slowly cutting.

If I'm going to deflate a little, I need to step it up these last 2 weeks...

 

[kissdadookie]

Yeah. I guess I wasn't exactly sure the slight increase in fullness was from the Osta or increased calories.



Right around the time I started Osta, I got a 2nd job that has me on my feet all shift. So my energy expenditure went way up. I'm eating what I used to bulk on, now, and I'm slowly cutting.

If I'm going to deflate a little, I need to step it up these last 2 weeks...

It's a combination of both. Nitrogen and glycogen retention is going to be pretty notably increased when you run the ostarine (mainly in muscle). So caloric needs will be altered somewhat as well as capacity for foods, particularly protein and carbs, will be increased. There may be some increase in estrogen as well since aromatase will likely be upregulated thus whatever test you have floating around (assuming that the ostarine has suppressed you somewhat) will have a higher chance of getting converted the estrogen. This is not necessarily a bad thing since estrogen is actually keep to keeping muscles fuller (thus why compounds that aromatize tends to put weight on the person much quicker than compounds which do not aromatize).

 

[Grayson]

It's a combination of both. Nitrogen and glycogen retention is going to be pretty notably increased when you run the ostarine (mainly in muscle). So caloric needs will be altered somewhat as well as capacity for foods, particularly protein and carbs, will be increased. There may be some increase in estrogen as well since aromatase will likely be upregulated thus whatever test you have floating around (assuming that the ostarine has suppressed you somewhat) will have a higher chance of getting converted the estrogen. This is not necessarily a bad thing since estrogen is actually keep to keeping muscles fuller (thus why compounds that aromatize tends to put weight on the person much quicker than compounds which do not aromatize).

Agreed.

Ostarine really shines on a high carb/protein and low fat.

It took a while to play with my diet on it and see how my body reacts, but if I keep fat intake to 15%, I don't get puffy off carbs.

I think it also modulates insulin response somehow. I'll have to look up the MOA, but I'd be curious to see what the androgen receptor has to do with insulin.

 

[McCrew530]

So are we all in agreeance that a longer cycle 6-10 weeks of Osta above 20mg Ed needs to have a proper Sermed PCT and a short/ low dosed cycle can be an OTC PCT?

 

[Fit1962]

So when you come off ostarine, you lose the fullness of glycogen? But do you still look larger than you did before you started assuming no fat gain?

 

[booneman77]

So when you come off ostarine, you lose the fullness of glycogen? But do you still look larger than you did before you started assuming no fat gain?

You'll only look larger if you actually gained muscle ha. So essentially, yes, you should be bigger assuming you ate and trained properly. You will lose some fullness due to glycogen retention going back to a more normal level.

 

[booneman77]

So are we all in agreeance that a longer cycle 6-10 weeks of Osta above 20mg Ed needs to have a proper Sermed PCT and a short/ low dosed cycle can be an OTC PCT?

That's pretty much how I've seen it. Obviously there are cases of people getting away with OTC pct with higher/longer cycles as well as those who see shutdown from low/short but generically speaking it looks to be as you stated.

<20mg / 0-8 weeks = OTC pct
>20mg / 8+ weeks = serm

 

[McCrew530]

That's pretty much how I've seen it. Obviously there are cases of people getting away with OTC pct with higher/longer cycles as well as those who see shutdown from low/short but generically speaking it looks to be as you stated.

<20mg / 0-8 weeks = OTC pct
>20mg / 8+ weeks = serm

Well I have 8 weeks saved up at 20mg ed so I guess Ill give that theory a run but I have Torem on hand with some DAA just in case.

 

[Grayson]

That's pretty much how I've seen it. Obviously there are cases of people getting away with OTC pct with higher/longer cycles as well as those who see shutdown from low/short but generically speaking it looks to be as you stated.

<20mg / 0-8 weeks = OTC pct
>20mg / 8+ weeks = serm

I'm sorry, but I think we should do away with the notion of pct and "feel."

An optimal situation would be to get work done mid cycle to see how suppressed you are.

I've seen blood work at 20mg of Celtic's Ostabol and it cut total test by 70% and raised SHBG as well as e2 (which we know about). And this was only after a week.

It's up to the user how quickly they want to bounce back. Personally, I'd rather run it high and have a proper pct in place. It doesn't have to be too crazy/expensive but a SERM is definitely needed if running 20 or over.

For therapeutic purposes of 5-15, I'd say otc pct or even no pct should be fine.

 

[booneman77]

Well I have 8 weeks saved up at 20mg ed so I guess Ill give that theory a run but I have Torem on hand with some DAA just in case.

Same here. I was planning something like alphamax/reduce xt, and maybe some other goodies. Maybe throw some form in there too.

 

[booneman77]

I'm sorry, but I think we should do away with the notion of pct and "feel." An optimal situation would be to get work done mid cycle to see how suppressed you are. I've seen blood work at 20mg of Celtic's Ostabol and it cut total test by 70% and raised SHBG as well as e2 (which we know about). And this was only after a week. It's up to the user how quickly they want to bounce back. Personally, I'd rather run it high and have a proper pct in place. It doesn't have to be too crazy/expensive but a SERM is definitely needed if running 20 or over. For therapeutic purposes of 5-15, I'd say otc pct or even no pct should be fine.

I totally agree that bloods are the only true tell. The fact is tho that most people won't do them and the ones who do would usually use something stronger then osta. It's simply a matter of doing what you think is right (whether it really is or not ha)

 

[McCrew530]

Same here. I was planning something like alphamax/reduce xt, and maybe some other goodies. Maybe throw some form in there too.

Ive got tons of formabolic on hand I have got a few boosters to run on cycle, and was thinking about doing a three week Torem pct with DAA and/ or LGI rehab.

 

[haiz69]

I'm sorry, but I think we should do away with the notion of pct and "feel."

An optimal situation would be to get work done mid cycle to see how suppressed you are.

I've seen blood work at 20mg of Celtic's Ostabol and it cut total test by 70% and raised SHBG as well as e2 (which we know about). And this was only after a week.

It's up to the user how quickly they want to bounce back. Personally, I'd rather run it high and have a proper pct in place. It doesn't have to be too crazy/expensive but a SERM is definitely needed if running 20 or over.

For therapeutic purposes of 5-15, I'd say otc pct or even no pct should be fine.

This is my absolutely suggestion for running Ostarine. Even the lower dosages in the studies reduced testosterone significantly, which is much less than anyone takes it for our purposes.

All of the theories about SARM's and lack of suppression made the rounds before we had a lot of data. People (many of them, myself included), believed that they would be all benefit and no negatives. Now, we DO have the data to make more informed suggestions regarding its use, but you can tell that many people are fighting tooth and nail to say that it doesn't suppress them.

I would tell (and have) any of my clients asking about using ostarine to have a SERM on hand and plan to use it. You cannot just go by "feel". The only way I would be okay telling someone to not use a SERM is if they agreed to have pre/post bloodwork done. Barring that, dose it effectively and use a SERM. Or don't both taking the damn thing. If you have the means and gusto to use a SARM, then do it right.

 

[jarod86]

Serm all the way.

 

[Tagger]

This is my absolutely suggestion for running Ostarine. Even the lower dosages in the studies reduced testosterone significantly, which is much less than anyone takes it for our purposes.

All of the theories about SARM's and lack of suppression made the rounds before we had a lot of data. People (many of them, myself included), believed that they would be all benefit and no negatives. Now, we DO have the data to make more informed suggestions regarding its use, but you can tell that many people are fighting tooth and nail to say that it doesn't suppress them.

I would tell (and have) any of my clients asking about using ostarine to have a SERM on hand and plan to use it. You cannot just go by "feel". The only way I would be okay telling someone to not use a SERM is if they agreed to have pre/post bloodwork done. Barring that, dose it effectively and use a SERM. Or don't both taking the damn thing. If you have the means and gusto to use a SARM, then do it right.

Wait, wut, you have clients?!

 

[kissdadookie]

This is my absolutely suggestion for running Ostarine. Even the lower dosages in the studies reduced testosterone significantly, which is much less than anyone takes it for our purposes.

All of the theories about SARM's and lack of suppression made the rounds before we had a lot of data. People (many of them, myself included), believed that they would be all benefit and no negatives. Now, we DO have the data to make more informed suggestions regarding its use, but you can tell that many people are fighting tooth and nail to say that it doesn't suppress them.

I would tell (and have) any of my clients asking about using ostarine to have a SERM on hand and plan to use it. You cannot just go by "feel". The only way I would be okay telling someone to not use a SERM is if they agreed to have pre/post bloodwork done. Barring that, dose it effectively and use a SERM. Or don't both taking the damn thing. If you have the means and gusto to use a SARM, then do it right.

I've been saying this for a long while. LoL.

It acts like a steroid would act except it's technically not a steroid. Treat it as you would with any effective androgen/steroid use.

AI on hand that isn't OTC stuff, just in case you come across estrogen issues. Tamox and clomid on hand as well (it's wiser to use a mix of tamox and clomid just in case you don't respond to one, you cover your basis, there are clomid non-responders etc.).

 

[haiz69]

Wait, wut, you have clients?!

That I do. I train at a gym around campus.

I've been saying this for a long while. LoL.

It acts like a steroid would act except it's technically not a steroid. Treat it as you would with any effective androgen/steroid use.

AI on hand that isn't OTC stuff, just in case you come across estrogen issues. Tamox and clomid on hand as well (it's wiser to use a mix of tamox and clomid just in case you don't respond to one, you cover your basis, there are clomid non-responders etc.).

How do you feel about toremifene?

 

[kissdadookie]

That I do. I train at a gym around campus.



How do you feel about toremifene?

Possibly lower sides but all in all, interchangeable with tamox. I would still throw in low dose clomid as well to either. Don't stack tamox and tor though, they are similar to each other.

 

[haiz69]

Possibly lower sides but all in all, interchangeable with tamox. I would still throw in low dose clomid as well to either. Don't stack tamox and tor though, they are similar to each other.

Yeah. Would never consider stacking them. Have seen a lot of people prefer toremifene to tamox. Just curious.

 

[Grayson]

Yeah. Would never consider stacking them. Have seen a lot of people prefer toremifene to tamox. Just curious.

First time using a serm so I went with
Torem. I've heard it eliminates the need for clomid as well.

I have formestane on deck for this cycle, but I might purchase Aromasin for pct.

 

[kissdadookie]

First time using a serm so I went with
Torem. I've heard it eliminates the need for clomid as well.

I have formestane on deck for this cycle, but I might purchase Aromasin for pct.

Does not actually. It works similarly to tamox, but less possible sides. Clomid works on the hypothalamus iirc. Nothing much works better than clomid IMO. The toremifene or tamox however is good to also use with the clomid just in case you don't respond to the clomid, also has some possible gyno reducing effects due to how it works.

Clomid mood swings, I think that's mostly from those dosing 100 mgs ED. Better to combine a low dose of clomid with your tamox or toremifene.

 

[Grayson]

Does not actually. It works similarly to tamox, but less possible sides. Clomid works on the hypothalamus iirc. Nothing much works better than clomid IMO. The toremifene or tamox however is good to also use with the clomid just in case you don't respond to the clomid, also has some possible gyno reducing effects due to how it works.

Clomid mood swings, I think that's mostly from those dosing 100 mgs ED. Better to combine a low dose of clomid with your tamox or toremifene.

Yup in laymen's terms it's a 2nd gen tamox.

It might be overkill and I've read reports on other forums that clomid isn't really needed, but for insurance reasons it can't hurt.

I'm still on the fence if I should go to 8, or quit at 6. I've read that 8 is safe at 25mg, but I've only seen 30mg at 6.

 

[Grayson]

Btw, this solidifies my observation on insulin resistance and glucose tolerance:

GTx Announces Ostarine Improved Insulin Resistance among Elderly Patients in a Recently Completed Phase II Clinical Trial

MEMPHIS, Tenn.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Apr 17, 2007 - GTx, Inc. (NASDAQ: GTXI) announced today that data from a recently conducted Phase II Ostarine(TM) clinical trial of 60 elderly men and 60 postmenopausal women revealed that insulin and glucose levels were reduced and insulin resistance was improved among subjects receiving the 3 mg dose of Ostarine compared to baseline. These observations were even more pronounced among a subset of prediabetic subjects.
Data from the Phase II clinical trial of Ostarine are being highlighted at the GTx Analyst Day meeting being held today from 11 a.m. to 2 p.m. at the Loews Regency Hotel in New York City. During the meeting, GTx also will provide information about its clinical development plans and commercialization strategy for Ostarine, the company's first-in-class selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM).

In the three month Phase II clinical trial in which patients with diabetes or obesity (BMI greater than 30) were excluded, subjects treated with Ostarine 3 mg (n=23) had on average an 11% decline in fasting blood glucose (p less than 0.001), a 17.6% reduction in insulin levels (p=0.043), and a 26.8% reduction in insulin resistance (HOMA-IR) (p=0.037), when compared to their baseline measurements. Improvements in insulin resistance were more apparent among a small subset of prediabetic (fasting blood glucose of 100 - 125 mg/dL) patients (n=5) treated with Ostarine 3 mg in whom the mean fasting blood glucose declined by 17.4%, insulin levels reduced by 29.4%, and insulin resistance decreased by 41.3%.

Improvements in insulin resistance among subjects receiving the 3 mg dose provide additional supporting evidence of the anabolic activity of Ostarine. The resulting changes in body composition (increased muscle and decreased fat) with Ostarine treatment appear to have a beneficial impact on insulin resistance. These data compare favorably with results of clinical trials using FDA approved diabetic drugs in a prediabetic population. For example, in a one year study (the DREAM study), prediabetic patients taking rosiglitazone 8 mg evidenced a decline in fasting blood glucose of 9% from their baseline measurements (Lancet, 2006). Similarly, in prediabetic patients taking glipizide 2.5 mg for 6 months, the mean fasting blood glucose decreased by 4 percent, insulin declined by 17%, and insulin resistance reduced by 35% (Erikson JG et al, 2006). In prediabetic patients taking metformin 1.7 g for 16 weeks, fasting blood glucose declined by 6%, insulin decreased by 29%, and the calculated insulin resistance decreased by approximately 39% (Bulcao C et al, 2007).

"The data from our Phase II clinical trial provide more evidence that Ostarine is having the desired anabolic effect," said Ronald A. Morton, Jr, MD, Chief Medical Officer of GTx. "By increasing muscle and decreasing fat, Ostarine appears to improve levels of glucose and insulin and to reduce insulin resistance. These data suggest Ostarine may have a beneficial impact on prediabetic conditions and potentially diabetes, which, if validated in later studies, could provide the basis for our seeking expanded indications for Ostarine."

"It would be clinically meaningful and exciting if Ostarine is shown to have an effect of similar magnitude in chronic kidney disease patients where diabetes and prediabetes are highly prevalent," said T. Alp Ikizler, MD, Associate Professor of Medicine at Vanderbilt University School of Medicine.

GTx is planning to initiate a Phase IIb clinical trial evaluating Ostarine for the treatment of chronic kidney disease muscle wasting by the end of the year 2007. Diabetes is a highly prevalent comorbidity among patients with chronic kidney disease. Nearly one half of treated Stage 3 and 4 chronic kidney disease patients are diabetic, and the majority of remaining patients are prediabetic. Testing Ostarine in this population will allow GTx to gather additional information about the effect of Ostarine on glucose, insulin and insulin resistance in diabetics or people at risk for diabetes.

About GTx

GTx, headquartered in Memphis, Tenn., is a biopharmaceutical company dedicated to the discovery, development, and commercialization of small molecules that selectively target hormone pathways to treat cancer, osteoporosis and bone loss, muscle wasting and other serious medical conditions. GTx is developing ACAPODENE(R) (toremifene citrate), a selective estrogen receptor modulator, or SERM, in two separate clinical programs in men: first, a pivotal Phase III clinical trial for the treatment of serious side effects of androgen deprivation therapy for advanced prostate cancer, and second, a pivotal Phase III clinical trial for the prevention of prostate cancer in high risk men with high grade prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia, or PIN. GTx has licensed to Ipsen Limited exclusive rights in Europe to develop and commercialize ACAPODENE(R). GTx also is developing Ostarine(TM), a first-in-class selective androgen receptor modulator, or SARM. GTx plans to initiate a Phase IIb Ostarine(TM) clinical trial for cancer cachexia by the summer of 2007. GTx plans to initiate a Phase IIb Ostarine(TM) clinical trial for the treatment of chronic kidney disease and end stage renal disease muscle wasting by the end of 2007. GTx believes that Ostarine(TM) also has the potential to treat a variety of other indications associated with muscle wasting and bone loss, including sarcopenia and osteoporosis.

Forward-Looking Information is Subject to Risk and Uncertainty

This press release contains forward-looking statements based upon GTx's current expectations. Forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties. GTx's actual results and the timing of events could differ materially from those anticipated in such forward-looking statements as a result of these risks and uncertainties, which include, without limitation, the risks that (i) GTx will not be able to commercialize its product candidates if clinical trials do not demonstrate safety and efficacy in humans; (ii) GTx may not able to obtain required regulatory approvals to commercialize its product candidates; (iii) GTx's clinical trials may not be initiated and/or completed on schedule, or at all, or may otherwise be suspended or terminated; and (iv) GTx could utilize its available cash resources sooner than it currently expects and may be unable to raise capital when needed, which would force GTx to delay, reduce or eliminate its product development programs or commercialization efforts. You should not place undue reliance on these forward-looking statements, which apply only as of the date of this press release. GTx's annual report on form 10-K filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC") on March 9, 2007, contains under the heading "Risk Factors," a more comprehensive description of these and other risks to which GTx is subject. GTx expressly disclaims any obligation or undertaking to release publicly any updates or revisions to any forward-looking statements contained herein to reflect any change in its expectations with regard thereto or any change in events, conditions or circumstances on which any such statements are based.

Contact

GTx, Inc.
McDavid Stilwell, 901-523-9700
Director, Corporate Communications & Financial Analysis

Posted: April 2007

Source: Invalid Link Removed

 

[jarod86]

There's quite a few people here who know their stuff and I can't find the answer to my question so here goes;

Have we seen any benefit in running a test booster e.g Viron during the 6 week Ost cycle in an effort to 'minimize shut down' in the pct that follows. 'Trying to keep ur natural test stimulated during cycle.'

That's my Broscience question.

My pct will be;
Alphamax 8weeks
Tamox 3weeks
Daa 6weeks

Thanks guys.

 

[Grayson]

There's quite a few people here who know their stuff and I can't find the answer to my question so here goes;

Have we seen any benefit in running a test booster e.g Viron during the 6 week Ost cycle in an effort to 'minimize shut down' in the pct that follows. 'Trying to keep ur natural test stimulated during cycle.'

That's my Broscience question.

My pct will be;
Alphamax 8weeks
Tamox 3weeks
Daa 6weeks

Thanks guys.

The EL from Viron might help with freeing up bound test, but it's not needed. For this purpose you can also try formestane if you have it, but again not needed.

If you feel that you're getting shut down or if you see your nuts shrinking, you can supplement with Bulbine (i've seen this anecdotal report on EF) or fadogia (iforce tropinol xp or omega t-force). Fadogia is like a natural hcg, so it should keep your boys plump. Other than that just enjoy the cycle and don't forget to eat massive amount of protein and good carbs.

I might utilize the extra bottle I have of tropinol xp starting either this week or next week, but it's all dependent on how I feel. The only extra "test boost" that I've been using on this cycle is dopadex pre-bed with zma. And ZMA is simply there because it puts me into a deeper sleep.

 

[jarod86]

The EL from Viron might help with freeing up bound test, but it's not needed. For this purpose you can also try formestane if you have it, but again not needed. If you feel that you're getting shut down or if you see your nuts shrinking, you can supplement with Bulbine (i've seen this anecdotal report on EF) or fadogia (iforce tropinol xp or omega t-force). Fadogia is like a natural hcg, so it should keep your boys plump. Other than that just enjoy the cycle and don't forget to eat massive amount of protein and good carbs. I might utilize the extra bottle I have of tropinol xp starting either this week or next week, but it's all dependent on how I feel. The only extra "test boost" that I've been using on this cycle is dopadex pre-bed with zma. And ZMA is simply there because it puts me into a deeper sleep.

Well written man.

I too have Tropinol xp on hand so I'll use this instread of viron on cycle from say the 2nd or 3rd week.

This will be my second cycle, though all at 25mg for the 6 weeks. I plan to do another cycle of this 7 or so weeks after I finish this one.

My last 6 week cycle had me pretty lethargic, and erections weren't in abundance- hence the test booster question.

 

[TN Lift]

Does ostarine cause elevated blood pressure? I tried to do a little research and saw conflicting answers. Anyone experienced issues with blood pressure while on ostarine?

 

[Tagger]

Does ostarine cause elevated blood pressure? I tried to do a little research and saw conflicting answers. Anyone experienced issues with blood pressure while on ostarine?

I have not.

 

[blacklac]

Does ostarine cause elevated blood pressure? I tried to do a little research and saw conflicting answers. Anyone experienced issues with blood pressure while on ostarine?

There are also some who believe that some older Ostarine products were in fact PH's. But I doubt they are basing that off proof.

 

[Grayson]

There are also some who believe that some older Ostarine products were in fact PH's. But I doubt they are basing that off proof.

That was when S4 first hit. I don't think it was ostarine.