Orals vs Injections (Educated Newb)

Theycallme$nake

New member
Whats up boys. I’m new to the forum and have been lifting seriously since I was 17. I am now 24. I hate to say it but I prob already have reached my genetic potential. Currently 5’11” at 205 pounds and the gains are almost non existent at this point. If i increase my calories to force growth I do get stronger but the fat accumulation just isnt worth it to me. Ive extensively been doing research on AAS. Im doing starting a 6 week cycle tmrw with androvar @ 300mg/ dmz@20mg/ 1andro@ 400mg. Excited for the gains! Anyways, my question is for my next cycle should I just do injections of test e @ 350 mg a week 50-75 mg of anavar for liver health. Seems like orals are difficult to manage and the damage to the liver might not be worth it. I’m going for a hard and dry look with a decent anount of mass. Trying to take care of the kidneys and liver as much as possible while adding 15-25 pounds Thanks boys and I look forward to learning from all of you
 
Theycallme$nake said:
Whats up boys. I’m new to the forum and have been lifting seriously since I was 17. I am now 24. I hate to say it but I prob already have reached my genetic potential. Currently 5’11” at 205 pounds and the gains are almost non existent at this point. If i increase my calories to force growth I do get stronger but the fat accumulation just isnt worth it to me. Ive extensively been doing research on AAS. Im doing starting a 6 week cycle tmrw with androvar @ 300mg/ dmz@20mg/ 1andro@ 400mg. Excited for the gains! Anyways, my question is for my next cycle should I just do injections of test e @ 350 mg a week 50-75 mg of anavar for liver health. Seems like orals are difficult to manage and the damage to the liver might not be worth it. I’m going for a hard and dry look with a decent anount of mass. Trying to take care of the kidneys and liver as much as possible while adding 15-25 pounds Thanks boys and I look forward to learning from all of you
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Welcome to the Board!


The obvious answer is:
You have zero personal experience as far as cycles, and what they might (specifically) do to Your body.

But that is right on the cusp of changing. In a matter of weeks, your personal experience in these areas will go up 100%.
I would definitely wait until you've completed your personal research (your cycle), before planning your next one.
 
Because it's your first cycle, id pick 1 thing to run with the androvar, preferably the dmz, 1 andro is hit or miss (usually miss) for results but still makes a lot of ppl feel like crap and loose sexdrive.

Androvar 300 dmz start at 20 and increase as needed.

When it comes time to run your second, if you had good results with dmz you will already know what to expect so you could just run 300-500mg test with dmz.

Or just run test solo.

Can you use anavar with the test? Ya of course. It's going to be your decision. If your first cycle goes well you will probably end up on your second cycle long before you planned lol. I think it's pretty much safe to say that happens with most people
 
Oh, and liver toxicity with orals is real, but it's greatly over-exaggerated most of the time, even if you go out of range will be back in normal shortly after as long as you don't have any pre-existing medical conditions with your liver
 
Renew1 said:
Welcome to the Board!


The obvious answer is:
You have zero personal experience as far as cycles, and what they might (specifically) do to Your body.

But that is right on the cusp of changing. In a matter of weeks, your personal experience in these areas will go up 100%.
I would definitely wait until you've completed your personal research (your cycle), before planning your next one.
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Thanks for the advice brother
 
Smont said:
Because it's your first cycle, id pick 1 thing to run with the androvar, preferably the dmz, 1 andro is hit or miss (usually miss) for results but still makes a lot of ppl feel like crap and loose sexdrive.

Androvar 300 dmz start at 20 and increase as needed.

When it comes time to run your second, if you had good results with dmz you will already know what to expect so you could just run 300-500mg test with dmz.

Or just run test solo.

Can you use anavar with the test? Ya of course. It's going to be your decision. If your first cycle goes well you will probably end up on your second cycle long before you planned lol. I think it's pretty much safe to say that happens with most people
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I actually forgot to mention I have dermacrine as a test base to avoid the sex drive issue. Damn I read some threads about 1 andro and it “supposedly” is more androgenic than test but I was obvs a littlle skepticall of that but decided to try it. As for the DMZ I’ll def try 30 after the first couple weeks. How long “should” I wait after my 6 week cycle before my next one?

thanks for the advice man
 
Theycallme$nake said:
I actually forgot to mention I have dermacrine as a test base to avoid the sex drive issue. Damn I read some threads about 1 andro and it “supposedly” is more androgenic than test but I was obvs a littlle skepticall of that but decided to try it. As for the DMZ I’ll def try 30 after the first couple weeks. How long “should” I wait after my 6 week cycle before my next one?

thanks for the advice man
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Some guys can't keep there sexdrive with a trt dose of test on 1 andro, don't know why but the gains vs sides don't weigh out on it, it's not nearly as good at building muscle as it's made out to be


As far as time in between cycles, the only way to know for certain is blood work. but when you guys aren't doing blood work the length of your cycle plus the length of your PCT usually determines about how long is a safe bet to take off. So 6 week cycle, 4 week pct, 10 weeks off. That's really what you want to do to play it safe. 6-8 weeks off might be ok, but without blood work you don't know. After a cycle you want to let your health markers go back to normal, but just because they got back to normal doesn't mean it's okay to start another one you want to actually spend some time with good health markers.

this may not be the greatest example but say you were sick for four or five weeks a few days later after that for 5 weeks you get healthy and you're feeling good well you probably want to stay feeling good for a while and not just get sick again right away. Not that you're going to feel sick from a cycle I'm just kind of using that as a explanation
 
Smont said:
Some guys can't keep there sexdrive with a trt dose of test on 1 andro, don't know why but the gains vs sides don't weigh out on it, it's not nearly as good at building muscle as it's made out to be


As far as time in between cycles, the only way to know for certain is blood work. but when you guys aren't doing blood work the length of your cycle plus the length of your PCT usually determines about how long is a safe bet to take off. So 6 week cycle, 4 week pct, 10 weeks off. That's really what you want to do to play it safe. 6-8 weeks off might be ok, but without blood work you don't know. After a cycle you want to let your health markers go back to normal, but just because they got back to normal doesn't mean it's okay to start another one you want to actually spend some time with good health markers.

this may not be the greatest example but say you were sick for four or five weeks a few days later after that for 5 weeks you get healthy and you're feeling good well you probably want to stay feeling good for a while and not just get sick again right away. Not that you're going to feel sick from a cycle I'm just kind of using that as a explanation
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Oh man! I just got married so If thats the case then this might be a shorter than planned cycle. That sounds like a solid PCT plan man thank you. Would there be any decent replacements for 1 andro? If not Ill prob just start pinning test e
 
Theycallme$nake said:
Oh man! I just got married so If thats the case then this might be a shorter than planned cycle. That sounds like a solid PCT plan man thank you. Would there be any decent replacements for 1 andro? If not Ill prob just start pinning test e
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I don't see why you need to replace 1 andro, could just drop it completely, dmz at 40mg and dermacrine at 5 pumps a day would be a great little cycle on its own.
 
Theycallme$nake said:
Good looks man thanks
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If you plan on a otc pct product, don't do it, check out the board sponsers, you can grab a bttl of nolva or clomid for the same price as most of the over the counter crap. If you check pre, you can grab your dmz and serm in the same order. Have fun
 
Smont said:
If you plan on a otc pct product, don't do it, check out the board sponsers, you can grab a bttl of nolva or clomid for the same price as most of the over the counter crap. If you check pre, you can grab your dmz and serm in the same order. Have fun
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Can you hit me with a link to our sponsers? Cant find the list on the forums
 
Hey bro. Welcome, good to see you coming on with some info already researched.

first thing to say (and I wish I’d done it) is you need to get bloods done BEFORE you touch anything - this gives you a benchmark. It’s impossible to know if you’ve recovered your hormones to your natural levels when you don’t know what they were before you cycled. That way you can at least track changes and make sensible decisions down the line (for example if the impact on your natural test is significant you may wish to stop after one cycle and wait until you’ve had kids etc. I’d had kids and the snip before I started in my mid thirties so I didn’t have that concern and trt didn’t bother me, your young to be heading in that direction if you happen to not be able to recover that well each time).

as for the cycle plan, I personally agree with @Smont around the toxicity of orals, pretty overstated and easily manageable with sensible cycles and supports......but in terms of health, results and sides injectables are generally better all round. I would pin test e for 8 weeks then switch to prop for the last 4 (so total 12 weeks) with var in last 6 weeks as a finisher. That would be a good cycle and you’d likely make good gains. Everyone responds differently to test so it’s handy to know what it does to you personally.

as a general rule of thumb, the less drugs you can take to achieve the results you want, the better. If you can grow like made off 350mg test a week that’s ideal, some guys need orals, some get results from hgh where some dont etc.

in reality, you sound like a serious lifter so this won’t be your only cycle, you’ll love the results, you’ll hate losing the strength gains off cycle and you’ll get back on down the line. Start slow and use less compounds - add more as you go and you learn what you need. At 24 you have loads of time and cycles ahead of you.

It’s like dating. The first date you’ll probably be satisfied with a kiss, second date maybe you want to feed the horse a little, third date maybe you get a 5 knuckle shuffle while driving her home, 4th date maybe a tit wank etc.......if you kick her back doors in and spunk in her eye on the first date there’s no where to go from there really. You’ll struggle to increase the outcomes time on time if you see what I mean
 
Whisky said:
Hey bro. Welcome, good to see you coming on with some info already researched.

first thing to say (and I wish I’d done it) is you need to get bloods done BEFORE you touch anything - this gives you a benchmark. It’s impossible to know if you’ve recovered your hormones to your natural levels when you don’t know what they were before you cycled. That way you can at least track changes and make sensible decisions down the line (for example if the impact on your natural test is significant you may wish to stop after one cycle and wait until you’ve had kids etc. I’d had kids and the snip before I started in my mid thirties so I didn’t have that concern and trt didn’t bother me, your young to be heading in that direction if you happen to not be able to recover that well each time).

as for the cycle plan, I personally agree with @Smont around the toxicity of orals, pretty overstated and easily manageable with sensible cycles and supports......but in terms of health, results and sides injectables are generally better all round. I would pin test e for 8 weeks then switch to prop for the last 4 (so total 12 weeks) with var in last 6 weeks as a finisher. That would be a good cycle and you’d likely make good gains. Everyone responds differently to test so it’s handy to know what it does to you personally.

as a general rule of thumb, the less drugs you can take to achieve the results you want, the better. If you can grow like made off 350mg test a week that’s ideal, some guys need orals, some get results from hgh where some dont etc.

in reality, you sound like a serious lifter so this won’t be your only cycle, you’ll love the results, you’ll hate losing the strength gains off cycle and you’ll get back on down the line. Start slow and use less compounds - add more as you go and you learn what you need. At 24 you have loads of time and cycles ahead of you.

It’s like dating. The first date you’ll probably be satisfied with a kiss, second date maybe you want to feed the horse a little, third date maybe you get a 5 knuckle shuffle while driving her home, 4th date maybe a tit wank etc.......if you kick her back doors in and spunk in her eye on the first date there’s no where to go from there really. You’ll struggle to increase the outcomes time on time if you see what I mean
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That makes sense about the blood work. I have a plan on even checking my BP eod for safe measure. As far as children go, I’m confident I can rebound my test and other health markers after only a 6 week cycle but I hear you about being weary of making the next step to trt/pinning since the longer cycles cause longer shutdown. Good advice man. I’ll get that blood work done
 
@Theycallme$nake why not some test, test p for example, it will only help libido (you said you just got married), you can run it for 6 weeks (it is enough imho, i made 80% of gains on enanthate in the first 6 weeks) and then come off and pct ahould be a breeze and it wont have nearly the same negative effect on your bloodwork as orals.

100 mg eod, 350 mg a week. Perfect for a first cycle imho. If i was doing it again i would do test p for 6-8 weeks as my first instead of E for 11 (was going for 12 but 0 gains post week 8 so said fuk it).
 
CroLifter said:
@Theycallme$nake why not some test, test p for example, it will only help libido (you said you just got married), you can run it for 6 weeks (it is enough imho, i made 80% of gains on enanthate in the first 6 weeks) and then come off and pct ahould be a breeze and it wont have nearly the same negative effect on your bloodwork as orals.

100 mg eod, 350 mg a week. Perfect for a first cycle imho. If i was doing it again i would do test p for 6-8 weeks as my first instead of E for 11 (was going for 12 but 0 gains post week 8 so said fuk it).
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Yeah man if by body doesnt respond to the oral dmz and transdermal test base then my next cycle would probs be pretty damn close to what you just described. Is there a specific reason for test p instead of e?
 
Theycallme$nake said:
Yeah man if by body doesnt respond to the oral dmz and transdermal test base then my next cycle would probs be pretty damn close to what you just described. Is there a specific reason for test p instead of e?
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Test p is fast acting and 6 weeks of test p still makes sense while with E you wont make 100% of your gains in 6 weeks.

Dmz is stronger than test actually but test is much much healthier.
 
CroLifter said:
Test p is fast acting and 6 weeks of test p still makes sense while with E you wont make 100% of your gains in 6 weeks.

Dmz is stronger than test actually but test is much much healthier.
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that makes sense since you said to pin eod. Thanks for the advice man much appreciated
 
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