Orals VS Injectable

[Ck18dog]

What’s your guys thoughts on the two for especially for a guy that doesn’t like needles, are orals at a good mg equal to juice affects or just a waste?

 

[Whisky]

Well they are completely different bro.

for a start not all injectables are available orally Vica Versa (although I can probably think of more orals that have an injectable version) and the MOA/bioavailability varies hugely.

take Test as the mainstay, things like 4-ad or 4-andro convert to test via a one or two step process, they also have to pass through the liver. The result is a massive difference in mg for mg effectiveness (eg 4-andro is normally run at 350 a day so 2,400 a week, ime I got less from that than I do off 300 inj test a week).

so imo one can’t compare the two like that. You can use an oral to try and replace what an injectable will do but it’s not the same.

the other main difference is health, injectable is far better for you (primarily as the liver doesn’t have to process it). You can pin test healthily for years (cruising and blasting) compared to trying to run most orals for just a few months. The milder ones aren’t as bad for you but obviously have less effect.

that’s not to say orals don’t have a place. In terms of the effects when we look outside of test some are very similar, winny or SD for example, the injectable form typically just has less negative sides. Again though you can use less mg injectable due to the bioavailability increase.

my first few cycles were oral and TD as I had a big needle phobia, realised that I wasn’t gonna stop doing gear (love it too much) so getting over a fear of needles was the best option. Pinning test is the best imo by far.

 

[Smont]

What’s your guys thoughts on the two for especially for a guy that doesn’t like needles, are orals at a good mg equal to juice affects or just a waste?

There 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.

 

[Smont]

By the way, very rarely is a shot painful. It's a pinch. Stubbing your toe hurts 100 times worse then a shot in your glute, delt shots get sore at first but after a few weeks if pinning them it don't happen any more.

 

[Ck18dog]

Well they are completely different bro.

for a start not all injectables are available orally Vica Versa (although I can probably think of more orals that have an injectable version) and the MOA/bioavailability varies hugely.

take Test as the mainstay, things like 4-ad or 4-andro convert to test via a one or two step process, they also have to pass through the liver. The result is a massive difference in mg for mg effectiveness (eg 4-andro is normally run at 350 a day so 2,400 a week, ime I got less from that than I do off 300 inj test a week).

so imo one can’t compare the two like that. You can use an oral to try and replace what an injectable will do but it’s not the same.

the other main difference is health, injectable is far better for you (primarily as the liver doesn’t have to process it). You can pin test healthily for years (cruising and blasting) compared to trying to run most orals for just a few months. The milder ones aren’t as bad for you but obviously have less effect.

that’s not to say orals don’t have a place. In terms of the effects when we look outside of test some are very similar, winny or SD for example, the injectable form typically just has less negative sides. Again though you can use less mg injectable due to the bioavailability increase.

my first few cycles were oral and TD as I had a big needle phobia, realised that I wasn’t gonna stop doing gear (love it too much) so getting over a fear of needles was the best option. Pinning test is the best imo by far.

Well they are completely different bro.

for a start not all injectables are available orally Vica Versa (although I can probably think of more orals that have an injectable version) and the MOA/bioavailability varies hugely.

take Test as the mainstay, things like 4-ad or 4-andro convert to test via a one or two step process, they also have to pass through the liver. The result is a massive difference in mg for mg effectiveness (eg 4-andro is normally run at 350 a day so 2,400 a week, ime I got less from that than I do off 300 inj test a week).

so imo one can’t compare the two like that. You can use an oral to try and replace what an injectable will do but it’s not the same.

the other main difference is health, injectable is far better for you (primarily as the liver doesn’t have to process it). You can pin test healthily for years (cruising and blasting) compared to trying to run most orals for just a few months. The milder ones aren’t as bad for you but obviously have less effect.

that’s not to say orals don’t have a place. In terms of the effects when we look outside of test some are very similar, winny or SD for example, the injectable form typically just has less negative sides. Again though you can use less mg injectable due to the bioavailability increase.

my first few cycles were oral and TD as I had a big needle phobia, realised that I wasn’t gonna stop doing gear (love it too much) so getting over a fear of needles was the best option. Pinning test is the best imo by far.

So how’d you go about getting over the deal of injecting bro, I mean if it’s definitely safer (doing it properly) and you get less sides wheres the safest areas to inject cause I know going the wrong place can turn pretty ugly, and is it ran the same, with on cycle support the same I would run normally with orals? On top that what’ would be a good beginner bulking inject to kinda feel out these affects slowly with do in that route another time around cause just like orals everyone reacts differently to the affects and side affects

There 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.

would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of deal

There 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.
[/would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of deal

 

[Smont]

So how’d you go about getting over the deal of injecting bro, I mean if it’s definitely safer (doing it properly) and you get less sides wheres the safest areas to inject cause I know going the wrong place can turn pretty ugly, and is it ran the same, with on cycle support the same I would run normally with orals? On top that what’ would be a good beginner bulking inject to kinda feel out these affects slowly with do in that route another time around cause just like orals everyone reacts differently to the affects and side affects

would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of deal

If your gear is legit and sterile then there are less risks with most injectables. Orals are more dangers almost always. There is pretty much nothing that can go wrong with a glute or delt injection. As long as you keep everything clean. Millions of people take injections every day.

 

[Smont]

You sound like your looking for someone to tell you orals are safer. No one with half a brain and any real world experience is going to say that. Can you take oral only cycles, can they be effective and relatively safe. Sure, your an adult, you can do whatever you want. And you can probably run something for 6-8 weeks twice a year without much risks. But, results will typically not be as good or as safe as say something like 500mg of testosterone for 12-16 weeks.

 

[Smont]

Orals are typically stronger then injectables, if they were safer and could be used all the time then why the heck would anyone want to stick themselves 2-3 times a week?

 

[Mathb33]

There 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.

This! That’s why the oral only cycle because of needle fear becomes very dangerous. You never stop at one cycle. And then you never manage to do "only two cycle a year like you said you would". Oral is a great tool for a couple cycle to get a great boost but imo it’s something to use only so often and ideally eventually to drop them altogether and focus on injectables. As I stay that I’m currently on anadrol of course but still orals are harsh as hell and imo the most dangerous part of this game.

 

[Whisky]

So how’d you go about getting over the deal of injecting bro, I mean if it’s definitely safer (doing it properly) and you get less sides wheres the safest areas to inject cause I know going the wrong place can turn pretty ugly, and is it ran the same, with on cycle support the same I would run normally with orals? On top that what’ would be a good beginner bulking inject to kinda feel out these affects slowly with do in that route another time around cause just like orals everyone reacts differently to the affects and side affects

would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of deal

yeah @Smont has said what I would bro. You make sure you follow a sterile injection protocol (alcohol wipe on the vial before use, change pin from drawing to injecting etc) then it’s extremely low risk. Really hard to go wrong with delts or glutes as well. Loads of medical resources online showing injection sites.

don’t get me wrong I was shaking like a shitting dog the first time but as soon as you get that first one done it gets easy real quick.

500mg test a week for 12 weeks (could go as low as 350 if you like) would be the classic starter cycle. Get bloods done beforehand so you have a baseline and then ideally mid cycle so you can see how you are responding.

supports are similar, liver support less important (although never a bad idea generally) but the ai on hand is always needed (would need for most orals as well).

orals are stronger but you don’t keep the gains afterwards, most of them make you feel like lethargic and they hammer your organs (liver in particular). Test makes you feel great, for me I feel like I’m 18 again (I’m 38). I want to **** all night and could do so (if the missus was up for it). I feel confident and assured about myself all the time. I recover better and can train harder.

 

[Jinsun]

Test makes you feel great, for me I feel like I’m 18 again (I’m 38). I want to **** all night and could do so (if the missus was up for it). I feel confident and assured about myself all the time. I recover better and can train harder.

You feel that good? Not an expert on trt but shouldn't you just feel normal? What are your levels?

 

[Rebuild]

You feel that good? Not an expert on trt but shouldn't you just feel normal? What are your levels?

I believe he is talking about 500 mg of test, not trt.

 

[CroLifter]

I am the kind of person who used to run to the other side of the street as a kid when i knew i had to get vaccinated. I was always terrified of needles.

But it is what it is. I wouldnt do an oral only cycle, and i believe anyone who experienced how shitty it feels to have 0 to no test in his system during pct also wouldnt.

However, a nice, brisk and simple test cycle, with some anavar as either a finisher or both starter/finisher sure as hell does sound tempting - and is likely what I will run when/if i get a chance to cycle again.

 

[Mathb33]

You feel that good? Not an expert on trt but shouldn't you just feel normal? What are your levels?

Yeah but a point a lot of people tend to forget is natty people (not on trt) have levels that degrade year after year. So just at 29 years old or something you’re 90% of the time not going to be in the 700-900 range and it’s just going to get worse and worse after year. While on trt your levels will stay in the top range (where most men were not even as young adults) so generally speaking he’s right that you probably feel better / more energized on trt as an older adult than you would with your own levels.

 

[Jinsun]

Yeah but a point a lot of people tend to forget is natty people (not on trt) have levels that degrade year after year. So just at 29 years old or something you’re 90% of the time not going to be in the 700-900 range and it’s just going to get worse and worse after year. While on trt your levels will stay in the top range (where most men were not even as young adults) so generally speaking he’s right that you probably feel better / more energized on trt as an older adult than you would with your own levels.

Hm, okey ... But for instance, mine TT is right at the upper range. To feel as he described, I would have to be at least on 250 (which gets me at 3x upper range; 36h after pin). I know this all very very subjective though, describing feels. But being on TRT you shouldn't feel like you are on a small cycle? Maybe he is just coming from bottom line natty levels and that's why his experience is such ...

 

[Mathb33]

Hm, okey ... But for instance, mine TT is right at the upper range. To feel as he described, I would have to be at least on 250 (which gets me at 3x upper range; 36h after pin). I know this all very very subjective though, describing feels. But being on TRT you shouldn't feel like you are on a small cycle? Maybe he is just coming from bottom line natty levels and that's why his experience is such ...

I didn’t read exactly what he was describing. I thought he simply meant feeling overal better and more energized and generally awesome on trt. And if your levels are 850-900ish late 20s then you are probably in a very small group of lucky folks and indeed you wouldn’t notice a difference because you’re already feeling optimal. That’s awesome for you.

 

[Hyde]

What if I told you you could experience way better gains, that kept better, for less money, while getting to stay on longer, feeling better, and be much less likely to have a stroke in your 40s and 50s?

Suck it up buttercup. Take the shot.

 

[Whisky]

You feel that good? Not an expert on trt but shouldn't you just feel normal? What are your levels?

yep was referring to a cycle dose (me personally 300mg has me 10x range and feeling like this but I use a UGL that claim they overdose so could be higher).

that said even 125 a week has me feeling better than I did naturally. Trt should make you feel ‘normal’ but define normal.....that’s gonna likely be different for someone who’s natural test has declined from high range to low/mid range compared to them taking a trt dose that puts them high range again.....

 

[CroLifter]

I didn’t read exactly what he was describing. I thought he simply meant feeling overal better and more energized and generally awesome on trt. And if your levels are 850-900ish late 20s then you are probably in a very small group of lucky folks and indeed you wouldn’t notice a difference because you’re already feeling optimal. That’s awesome for you.

Levels are 300-400s in my early 20s lol

 

[Smont]

Levels are 300-400s in my early 20s lol

This is becoming more and more common, I was in the 6-700 range I think last time I checked at age 34. in my late 20's I was 8-900 range. I have nephew's and younger cousin's that are 16-23 years old and they all look skinny fat, little to no facial hair. Me and most of my friends started growing beards and mustaches in our early teens. We were in much better shape visually too. What causes this shift in hormones these days?

 

[Jinsun]

I didn’t read exactly what he was describing. I thought he simply meant feeling overal better and more energized and generally awesome on trt. And if your levels are 850-900ish late 20s then you are probably in a very small group of lucky folks and indeed you wouldn’t notice a difference because you’re already feeling optimal. That’s awesome for you.

Tnx : )

I'm actually mid 30's though. My lab uses a different scale for TT. It's in ug/L, scale 1.4 - 9.1 ug/L, if anybody knows anything about this please share. Anyway, I'm usually around 8.5 - 9. No idea how this translates to your measuring metods.

 

[Jinsun]

yep was referring to a cycle dose (me personally 300mg has me 10x range and feeling like this but I use a UGL that claim they overdose so could be higher).

Ok, that makes sense then. Why did I think you were talking about trt then, ... sorry, my bad.

 

[Smont]

Tnx : )

I'm actually mid 30's though. My lab uses a different scale for TT. It's in ug/L, scale 1.4 - 9.1 ug/L, if anybody knows anything about this please share. Anyway, I'm usually around 8.5 - 9. No idea how this translates to your measuring metods.

Nmol/l is usually 9-30ish range
Ug/dl can range from 250-1200 give or take.
Never heard ug/l. What country are you in

 

[Jinsun]

This is becoming more and more common, I was in the 6-700 range I think last time I checked at age 34. in my late 20's I was 8-900 range. I have nephew's and younger cousin's that are 16-23 years old and they all look skinny fat, little to no facial hair. Me and most of my friends started growing beards and mustaches in our early teens. We were in much better shape visually too. What causes this shift in hormones these days?

I think @CroLifter messed up with gear or something? But I do agree that manliness is in decline nowadays hehe What can you expect, if all that kids do is play starcraft on their computers all day. Also, epigenetics play a big part here. And this is the parents fault.

 

[CroLifter]

I think @CroLifter messed up with gear or something? But I do agree that manliness is in decline nowadays hehe What can you expect, if all that kids do is play starcraft on their computers all day. Also, epigenetics play a big part here. And this is the parents fault.

Those were levels before i touched gear.

tbh it was one of the reasons why i said fuk it and went on cycle. (not just low test but lack of bodyhair, childish face,level of muscularity that in my opinion didnt reflect my training and diet)

If my levels were 700+ i would be much more wary of going on cycle...would be worried about losing good thing i got going,

I was @ 500 ng/dl while i was taking clomid though...but those levels go down after serm clears the body.

 

[Mathb33]

yep was referring to a cycle dose (me personally 300mg has me 10x range and feeling like this but I use a UGL that claim they overdose so could be higher).

that said even 125 a week has me feeling better than I did naturally. Trt should make you feel ‘normal’ but define normal.....that’s gonna likely be different for someone who’s natural test has declined from high range to low/mid range compared to them taking a trt dose that puts them high range again.....

10x range??

 

[Jinsun]

10x range??

That stood out a bit to me to yeah : D Maybe free T?

 

[Jinsun]

Those were levels before i touched gear.

tbh it was one of the reasons why i said fuk it and went on cycle. (not just low test but lack of bodyhair, childish face,level of muscularity that in my opinion didnt reflect my training and diet)

If my levels were 700+ i would be much more wary of going on cycle...would be worried about losing good thing i got going,

I was @ 500 ng/dl while i was taking clomid though...but those levels go down after serm clears the body.

Yeah, I see. Till now, I guess I've been lucky. My TT levels due to cycling haven't dropped at all. Before I did my first cycle they were at 8.1. After my last cycle they were 8.7 I think. That's a couple of months after PCT, so those are steady levels ... I always used hcg though, and that must have helped. And only once a 19nor, and even that for a very short period of 3 weeks.

 

[Jinsun]

How does trt work in your country? It sucks in mine and since we basically have very similar health care systems, I presume it sucks just the same? Did they put you on 1x every two weeks test e injection? : D Or are you self administering trt?

 

[Whisky]

10x range??

yep, honestly surprised me. Free was even higher....

 

[Jinsun]

tbh it was one of the reasons why i said fuk it and went on cycle. (not just low test but lack of bodyhair, childish face,level of muscularity that in my opinion didnt reflect my training and diet)

My avatar pic is after 3 years of training natty. 77kg at 185 cm. I'd say at about 10% bf. I had real trouble gaining weight, but it was my training and food that wasn't on point.

Since free T is what matters, ... can you have high free T with TT being mid range? If so, you can just look after your shbg levels and have normal free T numbers with mid tier TT levels.

 

[Mathb33]

yep, honestly surprised me. Free was even higher....

Man have you got multiple bloods? It must be a mistake wtf! I have never seen this.. my mind is blown away.

 

[Whisky]

Man have you got multiple bloods? It must be a mistake wtf! I have never seen this.. my mind is blown away.

i honestly question it myself, it was medichecks who are legit AF and the blood draw was done by a doctor so it’s hard to see how there was an error but obviously hard to be sure. That was off a test dose of 350 as well.....

im cruising for a few months now but I’ll be using the same labs test when I blast again later in the year and will get them down again then.....will let you know if it changes dramatically.

 

[Mathb33]

i honestly question it myself, it was medichecks who are legit AF and the blood draw was done by a doctor so it’s hard to see how there was an error but obviously hard to be sure. That was off a test dose of 350 as well.....

im cruising for a few months now but I’ll be using the same labs test when I blast again later in the year and will get them down again then.....will let you know if it changes dramatically.

If it’s the case **** I guess just 150mg would be insanely anabolic for you! I guess it’s possible honestly... why not! I’m def curious about your next bloods though if you don’t mind!

 

[Whisky]

If it’s the case **** I guess just 150mg would be insanely anabolic for you! I guess it’s possible honestly... why not! I’m def curious about your next bloods though if you don’t mind!

yeah will post them up. Will get them in about a month to check where this 125mg cruise dose has me. Based on previous in theory it’ll still be high but we’ll see

 

[CroLifter]

My avatar pic is after 3 years of training natty. 77kg at 185 cm. I'd say at about 10% bf. I had real trouble gaining weight, but it was my training and food that wasn't on point.

Since free T is what matters, ... can you have high free T with TT being mid range? If so, you can just look after your shbg levels and have normal free T numbers with mid tier TT levels.

Oh i didnt have trouble gaining mass. You should have seen me in 2015 haha i was 250 with moonface (naturally). Cut down to 225 - 230ish (again natural, had i had balls to use some test on that cut i would have looked insane as i lost some muscle)..and in my opinion that was best physique i ever had at 18 years old. (Can you believe i dont have any readily available pics in digital format of myself...i was never into taking photos of myself...only got a few from when i cycled too).

I was never able to get to the same level of development again later for some odd reason (naturally).

 

[Jinsun]

had i had balls to use some test on that cut i would have looked insane as i lost some muscle

And this right here is starting to make more and more sense to me. Using aas once a year only for cutting. Either this or blasting and cruising I guess. Cycling is just starting to feel like a roller coaster to insanity city : )

 

[Whisky]

And this right here is starting to make more and more sense to me. Using aas once a year only for cutting. Either this or blasting and cruising I guess. Cycling is just starting to feel like a roller coaster to insanity city : )

haha, exactly why I started b and c this year......first few cycles i was keeping most, then not so much

 

[CroLifter]

And this right here is starting to make more and more sense to me. Using aas once a year only for cutting. Either this or blasting and cruising I guess. Cycling is just starting to feel like a roller coaster to insanity city : )

This is how i resonate. I might use for like 6-8 weeks once per year... before some kind of event, say holiday etc

After all, what am i supposed to do with this test e, tren a and proviron i got laying around (i aint giving it away so dont even start )

 

[Whisky]

This is how i resonate. I might use for like 6-8 weeks once per year... before some kind of event, say holiday etc

After all, what am i supposed to do with this test e, tren a and proviron i got laying around (i aint giving it away so dont even start )

I think your entirely right - there comes a stage where using for cutting makes sense but for growth is a sticking plaster. You feel great on and **** off because you want to be as strong as you were on.

I guess it depends on your mental capacity to handle that as well. People prepping for a show or comp I get it as they have a goal and want to peak (And presumably expect that goes away after).

I just enjoy it too much.

 

[CroLifter]

Well, some of us are going to cycle few times a year, some of us are going to do a short cycle once a year or even once every two years, some are going to b & c,

Imho it doesnt matter as we all have different goals, different tolerance levels and different risk taking appetites.

The only thing that matters in the end is that we do our best to stay on top of our health.

 

[Jinsun]

I think your entirely right - there comes a stage where using for cutting makes sense but for growth is a sticking plaster. You feel great on and **** off because you want to be as strong as you were on.

Exactly. You wont really keep that muscle mass unless you are cruising on a high "trt" dose, or are cycling all the time. Maybe, maybe it can be done with peptides in the "off cycle" time. But even that, who wants to be sleepy all the time.

Anyway, the problem is; you wanna feel normal for the majority of the year, otherwise you loose the sens of what is normal in the first place. This I mostly mean in the mental sense. Doing two 8 - 12 weeks cycles a year you start feeling like normal is when you are on cycle and the off cycle time is just a shitty feeling phase you have to go through in order so you can cycle and then feel normal ... if that makes sense ...

 

[CroLifter]

Maybe, maybe it can be done with peptides in the "off cycle" time. But even that, who wants to be sleepy all the time.

hahaha so true. I love mk677 but absolutely hate that aspect of it.