There 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.What’s your guys thoughts on the two for especially for a guy that doesn’t like needles, are orals at a good mg equal to juice affects or just a waste?
Well they are completely different bro.
for a start not all injectables are available orally Vica Versa (although I can probably think of more orals that have an injectable version) and the MOA/bioavailability varies hugely.
take Test as the mainstay, things like 4-ad or 4-andro convert to test via a one or two step process, they also have to pass through the liver. The result is a massive difference in mg for mg effectiveness (eg 4-andro is normally run at 350 a day so 2,400 a week, ime I got less from that than I do off 300 inj test a week).
so imo one can’t compare the two like that. You can use an oral to try and replace what an injectable will do but it’s not the same.
the other main difference is health, injectable is far better for you (primarily as the liver doesn’t have to process it). You can pin test healthily for years (cruising and blasting) compared to trying to run most orals for just a few months. The milder ones aren’t as bad for you but obviously have less effect.
that’s not to say orals don’t have a place. In terms of the effects when we look outside of test some are very similar, winny or SD for example, the injectable form typically just has less negative sides. Again though you can use less mg injectable due to the bioavailability increase.
my first few cycles were oral and TD as I had a big needle phobia, realised that I wasn’t gonna stop doing gear (love it too much) so getting over a fear of needles was the best option. Pinning test is the best imo by far.
So how’d you go about getting over the deal of injecting bro, I mean if it’s definitely safer (doing it properly) and you get less sides wheres the safest areas to inject cause I know going the wrong place can turn pretty ugly, and is it ran the same, with on cycle support the same I would run normally with orals? On top that what’ would be a good beginner bulking inject to kinda feel out these affects slowly with do in that route another time around cause just like orals everyone reacts differently to the affects and side affectsWell they are completely different bro.
for a start not all injectables are available orally Vica Versa (although I can probably think of more orals that have an injectable version) and the MOA/bioavailability varies hugely.
take Test as the mainstay, things like 4-ad or 4-andro convert to test via a one or two step process, they also have to pass through the liver. The result is a massive difference in mg for mg effectiveness (eg 4-andro is normally run at 350 a day so 2,400 a week, ime I got less from that than I do off 300 inj test a week).
so imo one can’t compare the two like that. You can use an oral to try and replace what an injectable will do but it’s not the same.
the other main difference is health, injectable is far better for you (primarily as the liver doesn’t have to process it). You can pin test healthily for years (cruising and blasting) compared to trying to run most orals for just a few months. The milder ones aren’t as bad for you but obviously have less effect.
that’s not to say orals don’t have a place. In terms of the effects when we look outside of test some are very similar, winny or SD for example, the injectable form typically just has less negative sides. Again though you can use less mg injectable due to the bioavailability increase.
my first few cycles were oral and TD as I had a big needle phobia, realised that I wasn’t gonna stop doing gear (love it too much) so getting over a fear of needles was the best option. Pinning test is the best imo by far.
would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of dealThere 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.
There 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.
[/would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of deal
If your gear is legit and sterile then there are less risks with most injectables. Orals are more dangers almost always. There is pretty much nothing that can go wrong with a glute or delt injection. As long as you keep everything clean. Millions of people take injections every day.So how’d you go about getting over the deal of injecting bro, I mean if it’s definitely safer (doing it properly) and you get less sides wheres the safest areas to inject cause I know going the wrong place can turn pretty ugly, and is it ran the same, with on cycle support the same I would run normally with orals? On top that what’ would be a good beginner bulking inject to kinda feel out these affects slowly with do in that route another time around cause just like orals everyone reacts differently to the affects and side affects
would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of deal
This! That’s why the oral only cycle because of needle fear becomes very dangerous. You never stop at one cycle. And then you never manage to do "only two cycle a year like you said you would". Oral is a great tool for a couple cycle to get a great boost but imo it’s something to use only so often and ideally eventually to drop them altogether and focus on injectables. As I stay that I’m currently on anadrol of course but still orals are harsh as hell and imo the most dangerous part of this game.There 2 different animals. For the most part, injectable steroids are safer and have less long term side effects. They also produce more real muscle tissue "because" you can use them for longer. Many oral steroids can put 10+ lbs on you in 3-4 weeks but it's mostly cosmetic and goes away shortly after you discontinue it. To build a decent amount of muscle with orals you need to run them a little longer, and the problem your going to run into is that being on orals for 8-12 weeks at a time for 2-3 cycles a year is going to negatively impact your health reasonably fast. And if you think your only going to run 1 cycle a year think again. Most guys I know that had a successful first cycle end up staying on much longer then the planned and don't spend enough time off or cruising.
So how’d you go about getting over the deal of injecting bro, I mean if it’s definitely safer (doing it properly) and you get less sides wheres the safest areas to inject cause I know going the wrong place can turn pretty ugly, and is it ran the same, with on cycle support the same I would run normally with orals? On top that what’ would be a good beginner bulking inject to kinda feel out these affects slowly with do in that route another time around cause just like orals everyone reacts differently to the affects and side affects
would you say you’re taking a less risk though taking a oral then injecting juice? In the view that like you get your order of a oral that youre going to run and after a single use or a few days you can feel the affects of the oral but if you don’t you can know it was bogus and stop taking whatever the hell you got, but for juice once’s it’s in your system it’s in type of deal
Test makes you feel great, for me I feel like I’m 18 again (I’m 38). I want to **** all night and could do so (if the missus was up for it). I feel confident and assured about myself all the time. I recover better and can train harder.
I believe he is talking about 500 mg of test, not trt.You feel that good? Not an expert on trt but shouldn't you just feel normal? What are your levels?
Yeah but a point a lot of people tend to forget is natty people (not on trt) have levels that degrade year after year. So just at 29 years old or something you’re 90% of the time not going to be in the 700-900 range and it’s just going to get worse and worse after year. While on trt your levels will stay in the top range (where most men were not even as young adults) so generally speaking he’s right that you probably feel better / more energized on trt as an older adult than you would with your own levels.You feel that good? Not an expert on trt but shouldn't you just feel normal? What are your levels?
Yeah but a point a lot of people tend to forget is natty people (not on trt) have levels that degrade year after year. So just at 29 years old or something you’re 90% of the time not going to be in the 700-900 range and it’s just going to get worse and worse after year. While on trt your levels will stay in the top range (where most men were not even as young adults) so generally speaking he’s right that you probably feel better / more energized on trt as an older adult than you would with your own levels.
I didn’t read exactly what he was describing. I thought he simply meant feeling overal better and more energized and generally awesome on trt. And if your levels are 850-900ish late 20s then you are probably in a very small group of lucky folks and indeed you wouldn’t notice a difference because you’re already feeling optimal. That’s awesome for you.Hm, okey ... But for instance, mine TT is right at the upper range. To feel as he described, I would have to be at least on 250 (which gets me at 3x upper range; 36h after pin). I know this all very very subjective though, describing feels. But being on TRT you shouldn't feel like you are on a small cycle? Maybe he is just coming from bottom line natty levels and that's why his experience is such ...
You feel that good? Not an expert on trt but shouldn't you just feel normal? What are your levels?
Levels are 300-400s in my early 20s lolI didn’t read exactly what he was describing. I thought he simply meant feeling overal better and more energized and generally awesome on trt. And if your levels are 850-900ish late 20s then you are probably in a very small group of lucky folks and indeed you wouldn’t notice a difference because you’re already feeling optimal. That’s awesome for you.
This is becoming more and more common, I was in the 6-700 range I think last time I checked at age 34. in my late 20's I was 8-900 range. I have nephew's and younger cousin's that are 16-23 years old and they all look skinny fat, little to no facial hair. Me and most of my friends started growing beards and mustaches in our early teens. We were in much better shape visually too. What causes this shift in hormones these days?Levels are 300-400s in my early 20s lol
I didn’t read exactly what he was describing. I thought he simply meant feeling overal better and more energized and generally awesome on trt. And if your levels are 850-900ish late 20s then you are probably in a very small group of lucky folks and indeed you wouldn’t notice a difference because you’re already feeling optimal. That’s awesome for you.
yep was referring to a cycle dose (me personally 300mg has me 10x range and feeling like this but I use a UGL that claim they overdose so could be higher).
Nmol/l is usually 9-30ish rangeTnx : )
I'm actually mid 30's though. My lab uses a different scale for TT. It's in ug/L, scale 1.4 - 9.1 ug/L, if anybody knows anything about this please share. Anyway, I'm usually around 8.5 - 9. No idea how this translates to your measuring metods.
This is becoming more and more common, I was in the 6-700 range I think last time I checked at age 34. in my late 20's I was 8-900 range. I have nephew's and younger cousin's that are 16-23 years old and they all look skinny fat, little to no facial hair. Me and most of my friends started growing beards and mustaches in our early teens. We were in much better shape visually too. What causes this shift in hormones these days?
Those were levels before i touched gear.I think @CroLifter messed up with gear or something? But I do agree that manliness is in decline nowadays hehe What can you expect, if all that kids do is play starcraft on their computers all day. Also, epigenetics play a big part here. And this is the parents fault.
10x range??yep was referring to a cycle dose (me personally 300mg has me 10x range and feeling like this but I use a UGL that claim they overdose so could be higher).
that said even 125 a week has me feeling better than I did naturally. Trt should make you feel ‘normal’ but define normal.....that’s gonna likely be different for someone who’s natural test has declined from high range to low/mid range compared to them taking a trt dose that puts them high range again.....
10x range??
Those were levels before i touched gear.
tbh it was one of the reasons why i said fuk it and went on cycle. (not just low test but lack of bodyhair, childish face,level of muscularity that in my opinion didnt reflect my training and diet)
If my levels were 700+ i would be much more wary of going on cycle...would be worried about losing good thing i got going,
I was @ 500 ng/dl while i was taking clomid though...but those levels go down after serm clears the body.
10x range??
tbh it was one of the reasons why i said fuk it and went on cycle. (not just low test but lack of bodyhair, childish face,level of muscularity that in my opinion didnt reflect my training and diet)
Man have you got multiple bloods? It must be a mistake wtf! I have never seen this.. my mind is blown away.yep, honestly surprised me. Free was even higher....
Man have you got multiple bloods? It must be a mistake wtf! I have never seen this.. my mind is blown away.
If it’s the case **** I guess just 150mg would be insanely anabolic for you! I guess it’s possible honestly... why not! I’m def curious about your next bloods though if you don’t mind!i honestly question it myself, it was medichecks who are legit AF and the blood draw was done by a doctor so it’s hard to see how there was an error but obviously hard to be sure. That was off a test dose of 350 as well.....
im cruising for a few months now but I’ll be using the same labs test when I blast again later in the year and will get them down again then.....will let you know if it changes dramatically.
If it’s the case **** I guess just 150mg would be insanely anabolic for you! I guess it’s possible honestly... why not! I’m def curious about your next bloods though if you don’t mind!
Oh i didnt have trouble gaining mass. You should have seen me in 2015 haha i was 250 with moonface (naturally). Cut down to 225 - 230ish (again natural, had i had balls to use some test on that cut i would have looked insane as i lost some muscle)..and in my opinion that was best physique i ever had at 18 years old. (Can you believe i dont have any readily available pics in digital format of myself...i was never into taking photos of myself...only got a few from when i cycled too).My avatar pic is after 3 years of training natty. 77kg at 185 cm. I'd say at about 10% bf. I had real trouble gaining weight, but it was my training and food that wasn't on point.
Since free T is what matters, ... can you have high free T with TT being mid range? If so, you can just look after your shbg levels and have normal free T numbers with mid tier TT levels.
had i had balls to use some test on that cut i would have looked insane as i lost some muscle
And this right here is starting to make more and more sense to me. Using aas once a year only for cutting. Either this or blasting and cruising I guess. Cycling is just starting to feel like a roller coaster to insanity city : )
This is how i resonate. I might use for like 6-8 weeks once per year... before some kind of event, say holiday etcAnd this right here is starting to make more and more sense to me. Using aas once a year only for cutting. Either this or blasting and cruising I guess. Cycling is just starting to feel like a roller coaster to insanity city : )
This is how i resonate. I might use for like 6-8 weeks once per year... before some kind of event, say holiday etc
After all, what am i supposed to do with this test e, tren a and proviron i got laying around (i aint giving it away so dont even start )
I think your entirely right - there comes a stage where using for cutting makes sense but for growth is a sticking plaster. You feel great on and **** off because you want to be as strong as you were on.
Maybe, maybe it can be done with peptides in the "off cycle" time. But even that, who wants to be sleepy all the time.