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Oral Steroid Toxicity Relative to Alcohol

Davy25

Davy25

Active member
Hey guys,

Looking for a little bit of insight from experienced members who have a history of bloodwork to back up their statements.

I know, not another dam “Alcohol” thread.

But im looking moreso to understand truly how hepatoxic orals are compared to booze. We know booze is bad and causes corriosis/ fatty liver, but im curious how would elevated liver enzymes compare on a month long bender of drinking a pint every day compare to a month long cycle of an oral steroid.

For the sake of conversation lets use winstrol and ignore the hdl/ ldl levels and only focus on the liver.

Does anyone have any bloodwork that would show how destructive alcohol is vs how destructive orals are? Thank you!
 
I believe I've read or heard so don't quote me, that oral steroids are about as toxic as having a few beers every day so nothing crazy. Obviously there's a big actually a huge jump from something like cynostane to something like cheque drops, halotestin and even something as common as superdrol.

How many people taking steroids and not abusing alcohol or drugs have you heard needed a liver transplant? The truth is that an healthy liver would need a long time abuse of oral steroids to ever experience long term irreparable damage. Cholesterol and blood pressure is way more dangerous and it's actually smarter to do 5 very strong and harsh cycles that are short and effective than 5 long cycles with cholesterol being bad for months at a time.

The longer you keep cholesterol at a bad level the more dangerous it is.
 
Guys on here that are familar with me know that I run alot of orals on cycles. Andarol, Dbol, oral tren, winny, and a few others. I get blood work done monthly..I have a cool doc and great insurance. My liver enzymes are never more than slightly elevated. I just had them done while taking oral tren...supposedly super harsh...and my enezymes were only like 10 points higher than baseline. I have also ran Anadrol for months at a time and have been fine.
 
swimfan65 said:
Guys on here that are familar with me know that I run alot of orals on cycles. Andarol, Dbol, oral tren, winny, and a few others. I get blood work done monthly..I have a cool doc and great insurance. My liver enzymes are never more than slightly elevated. I just had them done while taking oral tren...supposedly super harsh...and my enezymes were only like 10 points higher than baseline. I have also ran Anadrol for months at a time and have been fine.
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Yeah I mean we know already that paracetamol is far more dangerous than aas yet we take it sometimes for weeks due to Illness. A great example would be this.

On the box of the medication it says max 6 pills a day, obviously 7 isn't the deadly dosage because it would be way too risky for a company to say 6 since anyone can forget. The reason they do it is because it's not helping anymore at a higher dosage and/or it starts tearing on you (also they don't want you to sue them). You might be able to take 10 or 12 but then you're basically dead and nobody can save you.

Now the aas recommendation varies but say superdrol is recommended between 10-30mg which obviously isn't max dosage but say 60 is. Nobody ever does 60 but I'm sure it's possible, I know 50 is. The recommendation is always with orals aas 4 to 5 weeks which comes from the prohormone companies that are selling it legally and they obviously don't want to be responsible for your death. The truth here is that doctors prescribe anadrol at up to 150mg for months when the average steroid user takes 50mg.

The biggest difference between aas and medicin? Take double the dosage of aas one time and nothing happens, take double the medicin and you're dead.
 
Chados said:
Yeah I mean we know already that paracetamol is far more dangerous than aas yet we take it sometimes for weeks due to Illness. A great example would be this.

On the box of the medication it says max 6 pills a day, obviously 7 isn't the deadly dosage because it would be way too risky for a company to say 6 since anyone can forget. The reason they do it is because it's not helping anymore at a higher dosage and/or it starts tearing on you (also they don't want you to sue them). You might be able to take 10 or 12 but then you're basically dead and nobody can save you.

Now the aas recommendation varies but say superdrol is recommended between 10-30mg which obviously isn't max dosage but say 60 is. Nobody ever does 60 but I'm sure it's possible, I know 50 is. The recommendation is always with orals aas 4 to 5 weeks which comes from the prohormone companies that are selling it legally and they obviously don't want to be responsible for your death. The truth here is that doctors prescribe anadrol at up to 150mg for months when the average steroid user takes 50mg.

The biggest difference between aas and medicin? Take double the dosage of aas one time and nothing happens, take double the medicin and you're dead.
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150mgs of anadrol would be horrible..to me at least. 100mgs kicks me butt. My oral doses are always fairly mild.
 
swimfan65 said:
150mgs of anadrol would be horrible..to me at least. 100mgs kicks me butt. My oral doses are always fairly mild.
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Yeah it's definitely strong. It's for medication though and I don't see any average person needing that much to build muscle. You can feel 100mg of adrol for sure, you're pumped as hell, strong and often a bit bloated. The pump I get in my biceps using adrol is making it almost impossible to work out for a longer time
 
Chados said:
Yeah it's definitely strong. It's for medication though and I don't see any average person needing that much to build muscle. You can feel 100mg of adrol for sure, you're pumped as hell, strong and often a bit bloated. The pump I get in my biceps using adrol is making it almost impossible to work out for a longer time
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Anadrol bloats me pretty bad...I put on a massive amount of weight with it. 50 lbs in a few months is pretty easy. When I come of it...I usually retain like 10 or 15...the rest is just water. I love the strength increase but become fairly uncomfortable at 350 to 365. I feel good at 320..where Im at now. Looking to cut about 20 pounds of body fat by summer...so I may steer clear of anadrol for awhile. Thinking of winny and halo with my test. 50, 20, ed respectively.
 
How do you feel about 10 mgs of Superdrol for 3 weeks? Plus don't see how having liver enzymes elevated is as bad as alcohol which actually scars your liver. Seems as long as cycles are run properly with on cycle support and proper PCT, risks of roids doing liver damage less than a daily functioning alcoholic.
 
Borashi said:
How do you feel about 10 mgs of Superdrol for 3 weeks? Plus don't see how having liver enzymes elevated is as bad as alcohol which actually scars your liver. Seems as long as cycles are run properly with on cycle support and proper PCT, risks of roids doing liver damage less than a daily functioning alcoholic.
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I think its fine. Btw...i have never run any kind of liver support with orals...I think its BS.
 
Anadrol is prescribed at moderate doses for over a year straight. Your liver can take a beating, a 6-12 week oral cycle is not going to hurt your liver to any significant degree onless its super toxic like halotestin, superdrol, M1T..... IMO.
 
swimfan65 said:
Guys on here that are familar with me know that I run alot of orals on cycles. Andarol, Dbol, oral tren, winny, and a few others. I get blood work done monthly..I have a cool doc and great insurance. My liver enzymes are never more than slightly elevated. I just had them done while taking oral tren...supposedly super harsh...and my enezymes were only like 10 points higher than baseline. I have also ran Anadrol for months at a time and have been fine.
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Hah! Member who used to be here, bighulksmash, was like this too.
 
Alcohol is more toxic, any amount of alcohol causes permanent damage to the liver on a microscopic level in addition to the stress of metabolizing it. When that scar tissue builds, you have cirrhosis.

When you take a methyl steroid, the liver has to work harder to metabolize it, this causes a mild inflammation over time which progresses into a severe inflammation and possible shutdown, damage, etc.

Plus alcohol kills brain cells more or less on contact. Only 19-nor steroids have neurotoxic effect, notably tren and durabolin (nandrolone).
 
swimfan65 said:
I think its fine. Btw...i have never run any kind of liver support with orals...I think its BS.
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Might not be bs in the case of NAC and tudca themselves. It seems they have an ability to return the liver metabolism to a normal rate thusly turning off the inflammation response and negating the effect of taking Methyls or even huge doses of acetaminophen and ibuprofen for extended periods. Apparently clinically shown to reverse cirrhosis.

However the dosage is actually way off, we don't take nearly enough, and tudca itself can inflame the liver after a time. So really NAC is it. But clinically it seems we should be taking a few grams of NAC every few hours at least to truly offset the effect. Not worth it to me.

I tried some liver products, didn't care for it. Never needed them before.
 
Old Witch said:
Alcohol is more toxic, any amount of alcohol causes permanent damage to the liver on a microscopic level in addition to the stress of metabolizing it. When that scar tissue builds, you have cirrhosis.

When you take a methyl steroid, the liver has to work harder to metabolize it, this causes a mild inflammation over time which progresses into a severe inflammation and possible shutdown, damage, etc.

Plus alcohol kills brain cells more or less on contact. Only 19-nor steroids have neurotoxic effect, notably tren and durabolin (nandrolone).
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Hence...I seldom drink. Plus I cant train the next day...just dont see the point in it
 
My fitness and overall health has improved greatly since quitting alcohol a couple years ago. Alcohol really has no benefits when it comes to fitness and athletic performance. Here is an article laying out most of the deficits to fitness and health caused by alcohol. Not judging, just sharing what I’ve learned over the years by experience. That said, drinking alcohol has trade-offs. It’s an effective social lubricant. But it certainly won’t improve your athletic performance.

Enjoy!
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Humble said:
My fitness and overall health has improved greatly since quitting alcohol a couple years ago. Alcohol really has no benefits when it comes to fitness and athletic performance. Here is an article laying out most of the deficits to fitness and health caused by alcohol. Not judging, just sharing what I’ve learned over the years by experience. That said, drinking alcohol has trade-offs. It’s an effective social lubricant. But it certainly won’t improve your athletic performance.

Enjoy!
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Very true...also, it makes fat ugly chicks more attractive at 2am
 
Aas clog up the liver so the toxic bile can't escape. This shows up as elevated liver enzymes on labs. The longer this continues the more chance of damage. This is where choleostatic compounds lice UDCA or nac come into play. They help in excreting the bile.
 
swimfan65 said:
I think its fine. Btw...i have never run any kind of liver support with orals...I think its BS.
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I think its gotta be another one of these genetic things. I can tell you I've had bloodwork showing elevated liver enzymes and after 6 weeks or so of support supps everything calms down. I guess the only way to know would be to NOT use them and see of the same occurs. NAC and TUDCA seem to have some good data behind them.
 
Must be a genetic thing. I also used to drink like a fish in my early 30s and late 20s...you know, out every night, banging anything that moved, doing lines off the back of the toliet in the john...and while I dont do that crap anymore...I think my liver became a warrior in the process...
Lol.
 
F8ck man. We want more of that!!! I've always had this dream of being an 80s style pornstar. lol Ya know. Like when you enter the gas station and the cutest girl is standing behind the counter with the puppy dog eyes.
 
Borashi said:
F8ck man. We want more of that!!! I've always had this dream of being an 80s style pornstar. lol Ya know. Like when you enter the gas station and the cutest girl is standing behind the counter with the puppy dog eyes.
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I got a lot of that on trest and epistane. Felt like I was on every chicks radar. Trest is awesome for getting the attention of the ladies, hard to explain. Had the best craziest sex too on that shyte
 
RickyBlobby said:
I got a lot of that on trest and epistane. Felt like I was on every chicks radar. Trest is awesome for getting the attention of the ladies, hard to explain. Had the best craziest sex too on that shyte
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Lmao.... brings out the nastiest in all of us - trest is best
 
Jinsun said:
So you use protection when on it? Cuz tehnically you are castrated in that time on cycle lol
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Theoretically....I've said this before on the board but roughly 7ish weeks on trest and 12 on test....got the old wifers pregnant. Must have lucked into some high quality hcg cuz I sure as hell didnt see that happening....all but guaranteed the old lady too....shes been pissed off at me for about 8 months now
 
Sh1t bro...my younger years were wild as hell. Fighting, f3cking, getting wasted, etc etc etc. Looking back on it, id have to say, if the person I am today met the kid that I was, Id beat the sh1t out of myself. I was such an a55hole.
 
swimfan65 said:
Sh1t bro...my younger years were wild as hell. Fighting, f3cking, getting wasted, etc etc etc. Looking back on it, id have to say, if the person I am today met the kid that I was, Id beat the sh1t out of myself. I was such an a55hole.
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I think alot of us are that way. Im only 29 id sure as sh1t teach my 21 year old self a lesson. What a retard
 
It is mainly about the blood work, hydration, and sparing your self liver damage. I cycled a lot the of the heavier orals (DMZ, M1T, Sdrol, etc) past few years and without NAC, TUDCA... My liver ALT/AST levels would shoot up (ALT in the 200-400 range), with suport they would be elevated (say AST only 60-70) but eventually go to normal, say 20-30 AST after long PCT.

Now those are stress markers, got to ask for the GGT on the test to see cumulative liver damage... And taking long breaks from harsher oral prohormones (a lie, they ARE designer oral steroid with clever marketing) is needed. Run Test E/C as base most of the time, get TRT if you can afford a doc.

Truth is regular blood work, doctor supervision, and Testosterone base makes this whole orals mess easier if your doc is cool. And if one can't afford that and support ancillaries, well... Then it's too risky, wait til you have $ unfortunately.

I'd be dead had I run these at 18 instead of 36, lol, or just have trashed my organs.

Frankly aside from learning how to lift right, eat and cook great, and basic supplements...

One really could use a medical degree in endocrinology, with a base of chemical engineering or biochemistry and anatomy.

Otherwise, its a bunch of bro's giving each other license to do risky biz.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW said:
It is mainly about the blood work, hydration, and sparing your self liver damage. I cycled a lot the of the heavier orals (DMZ, M1T, Sdrol, etc) past few years and without NAC, TUDCA... My liver ALT/AST levels would shoot up (ALT in the 200-400 range), with suport they would be elevated (say AST only 60-70) but eventually go to normal, say 20-30 AST after long PCT.

Now those are stress markers, got to ask for the GGT on the test to see cumulative liver damage... And taking long breaks from harsher oral prohormones (a lie, they ARE designer oral steroid with clever marketing) is needed. Run Test E/C as base most of the time, get TRT if you can afford a doc.

Truth is regular blood work, doctor supervision, and Testosterone base makes this whole orals mess easier if your doc is cool. And if one can't afford that and support ancillaries, well... Then it's too risky, wait til you have $ unfortunately.

I'd be dead had I run these at 18 instead of 36, lol, or just have trashed my organs.

Frankly aside from learning how to lift right, eat and cook great, and basic supplements...

One really could use a medical degree in endocrinology, with a base of chemical engineering or biochemistry and anatomy.

Otherwise, its a bunch of bro's giving each other license to do risky biz.
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Yeah...Im super lucky. My doc was in the game himself and used to compete up until 99...even got his IFBB pro card. Im totally honest with him and he runs my bloods monthly. He keeps my stuff in check and doesnt hesitate to write a script or tell me what to buy etc. Ive been seeing him every month for 10 years. He was concerned when I got up to 365 4 months ago. Hes happy with where i am now..wants me to get to 290...but he knows im getting there. Hes satisfied with my bloods...and if im off with something he tells me how to correct it.
 
swimfan65 said:
Yeah...Im super lucky. My doc was in the game himself and used to compete up until 99...even got his IFBB pro card. Im totally honest with him and he runs my bloods monthly. He keeps my stuff in check and doesnt hesitate to write a script or tell me what to buy etc. Ive been seeing him every month for 10 years. He was concerned when I got up to 365 4 months ago. Hes happy with where i am now..wants me to get to 290...but he knows im getting there. Hes satisfied with my bloods...and if im off with something he tells me how to correct it.
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++ 3
 
swimfan65 said:
Yeah...Im super lucky. My doc was in the game himself and used to compete up until 99...even got his IFBB pro card. Im totally honest with him and he runs my bloods monthly. He keeps my stuff in check and doesnt hesitate to write a script or tell me what to buy etc. Ive been seeing him every month for 10 years. He was concerned when I got up to 365 4 months ago. Hes happy with where i am now..wants me to get to 290...but he knows im getting there. Hes satisfied with my bloods...and if im off with something he tells me how to correct it.
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Oh man! I thought my doc was cool, but not that cool. He runs bloods for me, but is always kind of pointing the naughty finger at me...

You're lucky!
 
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