Oral Base Testosterone

[timmylong2725]

According to an (older) study performed in Eugonadal men (581 mean total testosterone), administering 100 mg of micronized testosterone as free crystals orally resulted in a significant rise in serum total testosterone levels measured some hours after administration.

Specifically, the peak change in ng/dL was about 320 ng/dL measured 1-2 hours post administration. The peak change in ng/dL was not effected much by administering the oral T with a high fat breakfast, although when the high fat breakfast was given as opposed to giving the oral testosterone in a fasted state , the mean change in serum total testosterone curve was elevated for longer.

One begins to wonder why not take advantage of this fact, especially given the availability of micronized testosterone and the fact that it is quite cheap (a gram costs about 1 dollar).

So, what I was thinking is that you could use perhaps two daily doses of, say, 300 mg in the morning, and 200 mg at lunch/pre-workout, while using something like Aromasin at 12.5 mg EOD (or even less) to control E2.

That would cost about a dollar per day.

If you do the math, this should be very cost effective and performance enhancing as well.

I welcome thoughts or criticisms (Study linked below)

 

[Renew1]

According to an (older) study performed in Eugonadal men (581 mean total testosterone), administering 100 mg of micronized testosterone as free crystals orally resulted in a significant rise in serum total testosterone levels measured some hours after administration.

Specifically, the peak change in ng/dL was about 320 ng/dL measured 1-2 hours post administration. The peak change in ng/dL was not effected much by administering the oral T with a high fat breakfast, although when the high fat breakfast was given as opposed to giving the oral testosterone in a fasted state , the mean change in serum total testosterone curve was elevated for longer.

One begins to wonder why not take advantage of this fact, especially given the availability of micronized testosterone and the fact that it is quite cheap (a gram costs about 1 dollar).

So, what I was thinking is that you could use perhaps two daily doses of, say, 300 mg in the morning, and 200 mg at lunch/pre-workout, while using something like Aromasin at 12.5 mg EOD (or even less) to control E2.

That would cost about a dollar per day.

If you do the math, this should be very cost effective and performance enhancing as well.

I welcome thoughts or criticisms (Study linked below)

There are multiple questions and considerations, regarding this.
The first one being..... If you were to buy Testosterone powder, would you assume it to be micronized?

 

[timmylong2725]

There are multiple questions and considerations, regarding this.
The first one being..... If you were to buy Testosterone powder, would you assume it to be micronized?

I wouldn't unless it specifically said it was. A very popular raw source explicitly sells micronized base testosterone.

 

[Renew1]

I wouldn't unless it specifically said it was. A very popular raw source explicitly sells micronized base testosterone.

Good.
Not everyone has common sense.

I know Many in "the bodybuilding community", and Many on this board, alone.
It hasn't become a common mainstream option, to do what you're suggesting, for a reason.... Or reasons.

If you don't find the answers as to why not, I'd say your next step might be to try it yourself, and see if you find out the reason(s) ..... Or possibly (but less likely) .... Find out that you found a good option that thousands of others never thought of, for some reason.

If you're looking for reasons this wouldn't be a great option.... Others will chime in soon.

If you're not looking for those reasons.... Don't wait for their responses. ... Just go ahead and try it.

 

[Smont]

According to an (older) study performed in Eugonadal men (581 mean total testosterone), administering 100 mg of micronized testosterone as free crystals orally resulted in a significant rise in serum total testosterone levels measured some hours after administration.

Specifically, the peak change in ng/dL was about 320 ng/dL measured 1-2 hours post administration. The peak change in ng/dL was not effected much by administering the oral T with a high fat breakfast, although when the high fat breakfast was given as opposed to giving the oral testosterone in a fasted state , the mean change in serum total testosterone curve was elevated for longer.

One begins to wonder why not take advantage of this fact, especially given the availability of micronized testosterone and the fact that it is quite cheap (a gram costs about 1 dollar).

So, what I was thinking is that you could use perhaps two daily doses of, say, 300 mg in the morning, and 200 mg at lunch/pre-workout, while using something like Aromasin at 12.5 mg EOD (or even less) to control E2.

That would cost about a dollar per day.

If you do the math, this should be very cost effective and performance enhancing as well.

I welcome thoughts or criticisms (Study linked below)

I really can't waste 500 words explaining the details, because this horse has been beaten to death for the last 20 years. Studies are fantastic but what happens in real life matters a lot more than what happens in the controlled study. Especially study done by somebody invested in selling a product. Oral testosterone is the absolute least effective administration route because oral everything is pretty much the least effective administration route. Nobody takes advantage of it because there are no advantages

 

[Smont]

If oral testosterone or oral hgh for that matter worked The way that they're supposed to, I would never inject myself again. Why the hell would I want to have to take a bunch of shots if I didn't have to

Oral is a waste of time. If my total t is 500 I'm not taking some oral testosterone to shut myself down and replace it with a new number of 7 or 800. That's just foolish

 

[timmylong2725]

If oral testosterone or oral hgh for that matter worked The way that they're supposed to, I would never inject myself again. Why the hell would I want to have to take a bunch of shots if I didn't have to

Oral is a waste of time. If my total t is 500 I'm not taking some oral testosterone to shut myself down and replace it with a new number of 7 or 800. That's just foolish

I completely understand that, and with respect to GH, we do know that it cannot be absorbed orally.

With the oral testosterone, though, we do know that at higher doses (say 200-400 mg per dose), it should raise blood levels significantly, about 640-1280 ng/dl at the peak and it would stay elevated for about 8 hours if we extrapolate from the study.

If you control estrogen by using aromasin, then why would your endogenous production stop? We do know that for example when oxandrolone is given at 20-40 mg per day for men over 8 weeks, endogenous production is NOT tanked. It decreases slightly, but its still there.

There is also some evidence from some clinics offering oral testosterone products that oral T + an AI strongly favors DHT conversion. DHT itself is known not to shut down the HPTA.

If you time the doses right, you may even be able to have a few (maybe 6-8) hours at night where there is no increase in blood test from exogenous sources, potentially allowing your HPTA to sense a lack of androgens (even though estrogens are way more important for shutdown), but that is complete speculation.

I'm NOT saying this will work. I'm just saying that it seems like it's worth a shot and it should be very cheap, which is one of the reasons why it is interesting.

I feel as if everyone "knows" this won't work despite no one actually trying it.

 

[Renew1]

I completely understand that, and with respect to GH, we do know that it cannot be absorbed orally.

With the oral testosterone, though, we do know that at higher doses (say 200-400 mg per dose), it should raise blood levels significantly, about 640-1280 ng/dl at the peak and it would stay elevated for about 8 hours if we extrapolate from the study.

If you control estrogen by using aromasin, then why would your endogenous production stop? We do know that for example when oxandrolone is given at 20-40 mg per day for men over 8 weeks, endogenous production is NOT tanked. It decreases slightly, but its still there.

There is also some evidence from some clinics offering oral testosterone products that oral T + an AI strongly favors DHT conversion. DHT itself is known not to shut down the HPTA.

If you time the doses right, you may even be able to have a few (maybe 6-8) hours at night where there is no increase in blood test from exogenous sources, potentially allowing your HPTA to sense a lack of androgens (even though estrogens are way more important for shutdown), but that is complete speculation.

I'm NOT saying this will work. I'm just saying that it seems like it's worth a shot and it should be very cheap, which is one of the reasons why it is interesting.

I feel as if everyone "knows" this won't work despite no one actually trying it.

Brother..... As respectfully as possible, while still being truthful....

We see "new" guys like you, several times a week (it seems, at least). You think that you've studied a Lot, but don't understand a lot of the basics.

Right Now ... You're communicating with guys who Have actually studied a Lot. ... No, more than that.

This statement right here, also shows that you not only believe that you know a Lot.... But that you also know what we've done, and haven't done:

"I feel as if everyone "knows" this won't work despite no one actually trying it."

You're "talking" to guys right now, who Each have decades of research And real life experience with Anabolics.

You (almost certainly, like all the others that you resemble) will eventually get fed up with us "not listening to", or "not understanding" you. .... Then you'll start calling us names.
Then you'll go away, pouting .... Not realizing that what you just walked away from was a wealth of knowledge that you could have gleaned from, instead of argued against.

No Ill will, brother.
Just being honest.

 

[timmylong2725]

Brother..... As respectfully as possible, while still being truthful....

We see "new" guys like you, several times a week (it seems, at least). You think that you've studied a Lot, but don't understand a lot of the basics.

Right Now ... You're communicating with guys who Have actually studied a Lot. ... No, more than that.

This statement right here, also shows that you not only believe that you know a Lot.... But that you also know what we've done, and haven't done:

"I feel as if everyone "knows" this won't work despite no one actually trying it."

You're "talking" to guys right now, who Each have decades of research And real life experience with Anabolics.

You (almost certainly, like all the others that you resemble) will eventually get fed up with us "not listening to", or "not understanding" you. .... Then you'll start calling us names.
Then you'll go away, pouting .... Not realizing that what you just walked away from was a wealth of knowledge that you could have gleaned from, instead of argued against.

No Ill will, brother.
Just being honest.

I'm willing to learn from people with experience, and of course I recognize that it is stupid to try to re-attempt what has already been attempted, if that attempt and many others liked it failed for a categorical reason.

Do you know of people who experimented with oral micronized testosterone in a manner consistent with the one I described? or close to it?

If you're not aware of anyone who has tried it, then please enlighten me with the reason why it is doomed to fail.

 

[Anabolic66]

Just pin it and be done w/ it...

 

[Smont]

I completely understand that, and with respect to GH, we do know that it cannot be absorbed orally.

With the oral testosterone, though, we do know that at higher doses (say 200-400 mg per dose), it should raise blood levels significantly, about 640-1280 ng/dl at the peak and it would stay elevated for about 8 hours if we extrapolate from the study.

If you control estrogen by using aromasin, then why would your endogenous production stop? We do know that for example when oxandrolone is given at 20-40 mg per day for men over 8 weeks, endogenous production is NOT tanked. It decreases slightly, but its still there.

There is also some evidence from some clinics offering oral testosterone products that oral T + an AI strongly favors DHT conversion. DHT itself is known not to shut down the HPTA.

If you time the doses right, you may even be able to have a few (maybe 6-8) hours at night where there is no increase in blood test from exogenous sources, potentially allowing your HPTA to sense a lack of androgens (even though estrogens are way more important for shutdown), but that is complete speculation.

I'm NOT saying this will work. I'm just saying that it seems like it's worth a shot and it should be very cheap, which is one of the reasons why it is interesting.

I feel as if everyone "knows" this won't work despite no one actually trying it.

You're going to be the 7 millionth person to try it That's why nobody wants to try it anymore because it's already been done 7 million times,

You don't have to come on a forum looking for people's approval to go try something You can just go do it and find out for yourself, But you're not going to change anybody's mind because this conversation has been had, tried, tested and failed over and over again. The medical community does not even use micronized testosterone as a form of hormone replacement therapy because on its own it doesn't work good enough. So instead they use it as a add on or part of a bigger treatment, So they can make money.

MONEY!

Instead of coming here and wasting all of our time why don't you just go run the experiment take before and after blood work and then take before and after pictures and come back here and tell us we're all wrong.

Just go do it. At the end of the day you will never know how anything works until you do it to yourself because what I do and what the guy around the corner does may and probably will not have the same effects on you anyways.

There were people who need 300 mg of testosterone injected weekly to maintain a 700

There's other people who can take 70 milligrams a week and maintain a 700.


So guess what you got to do if you want to know how it's going to apply to you.......


Just go do it

 

[Smont]

I'm not trying to be a dick at all we're all just sick and tired of people coming here asking the same s*** over and over again and then they come back at us the same way you are saying well how does anyone know if they haven't tried.... What the hell makes you think no one's tried? There's like 11-12 million people In the world on testosterone therapy, You don't think through those 11 million people we've tried oral testosterone a few times?

Do you know who oral testosterone works very good on? Female's, because so much less of the drug makes it into their bloodstream so it's a lot less risky.

 

[Dblock]

Because it’s the same handful of jerkoffs under different names who get us talking about garbage like oral testosterone, tribulus etc….like you said we are beating a dead horse

 

[timmylong2725]

I'm not trying to be a dick at all we're all just sick and tired of people coming here asking the same s*** over and over again and then they come back at us the same way you are saying well how does anyone know if they haven't tried.... What the hell makes you think no one's tried? There's like 11-12 million people In the world on testosterone therapy, You don't think through those 11 million people we've tried oral testosterone a few times?

Do you know who oral testosterone works very good on? Female's, because so much less of the drug makes it into their bloodstream so it's a lot less risky.

I do not think many if any have tried probably because of the huge amount of dogmatism. I have not found any threads or any other empirical evidence of people trying it and coming back saying that it didn't work.

There are clinics right now using oral T with or without an AI and people seem to be getting good results. That together with the low cost makes it seem interesting together with the scientific evidence.

I do get where you're coming from, though.

I'll try it and report back.

 

[Smont]

I do not think many if any have tried probably because of the huge amount of dogmatism. I have not found any threads or any other empirical evidence of people trying it and coming back saying that it didn't work.

There are clinics right now using oral T with or without an AI and people seem to be getting good results. That together with the low cost makes it seem interesting together with the scientific evidence.

I do get where you're coming from, though.

I'll try it and report back.

well I'm pretty sure I read a case study last year with 300 men on oral testosterone.

I've read one's specific to testosterone U and Micronized testosterone showing there both are far less effective then injections and the creams too. Even though studies showed an increase in bioavailability to like 81 or 83% or something like that, But it just didn't pan out in real world,you know with the real people that they gave it to.

And just for the hell of it I did a quick search for case studies and the first thing that pops up says that there are over 21 studies with 3,183 patients involved.

So I'm pretty sure some people have tried it.

Can I ask if you have already purchased it and again, why don't you just try it and go get your blood work done and a few months down the road take yourself some progress pictures to see if there's been any changes. Keep a log note your mood your energy levels and stuff like that. Why keep asking the question, If everybody here said yes we think it's going to work amazing would you go do it?

If so then why not just go do it anyways and find out?

I run little experiments on here all the time at least back in the day I used to a lot more, The best way to know if something works is to try it for yourself start a log keep notes take before and after pictures. In a situation like this you want to get blood work done So you can actually see what's going on with your hormones.

Sometimes I think guys come here asking all these questions and they're never even going to actually try in the first place like the whole conversations just a waste of time I feel like if someone already plans on doing this they're going to do it regardless.

Also usually when someone comes here asking these questions they'll just ask it over and over and over again until somebody agrees with them and they ignore the 78 people who said it won't work and they jerk off the one guy who said it worked for him even though the one guy who said it worked for him refuses to post any pictures doesn't have any blood work and is literally nothing more than I said it worked.

Brotha, start taking oral testosterone and keep notes. Problem solved

 

[Rad83]

As cool as it’d be if it actually worked, I’m glad it doesn’t! Don’t need every unhinged, unstable etc. dude that wants to go from ‘zero to hero’ abusing that so easily. Have enough already with the barrier being pinning…

 

[timmylong2725]

As cool as it’d be if it actually worked, I’m glad it doesn’t! Don’t need every unhinged, unstable etc. dude that wants to go from ‘zero to hero’ abusing that so easily. Have enough already with the barrier being pinning…

This is what I look like naturally. I guess this is what a "zero" looks like.

God forbid that someone try something slightly new!

 

[Smont]

This is what I look like naturally. I guess this is what a "zero" looks like.

God forbid that someone try something slightly new!

You look great bro, go run a real cycle. Youve earned it. Don't waste your time with the oral testosterone.

You're being ridiculously overly sensitive tho, because that comment he made wasn't even aimed at you, he just made a general statement.

No need for temper tantrums

 

[Smont]

I don't understand why you're saying God forbid someone try something slightly new, we urge you to try it.

 

[Rad83]

You look great bro, go run a real cycle. Youve earned it. Don't waste your time with the oral testosterone.

You're being ridiculously overly sensitive tho, because that comment he made wasn't even aimed at you, he just made a general statement.

No need for temper tantrums

Exactly, thanks bro….Wasn’t directing the comment at the dude…

 

[Rockslide]

As far as I know the only decent evidence on oral testosterone comes from oral testosterone undeconate (several name brand products out there)

I believe the studies showed they alleviate some symptoms of true low testosterone but they aren’t really able to keep blood levels up and stable above 500-700 , 24 hrs a day. Spikes up after you take in then down again in a few hours.

I would think that if there was a magic pancea for oral T, pharma industry would jump on it and not turn down a big chunk of the market that isn’t/or doesn’t like to pin or slather cream on

To be honest I question how much better oral testosterone works compared to 4 dhea or especially 4-diol. A lot of pro hormones are stronger than the target compound when taken orally because the final end target hormone isn’t well absorbed but sometimes the prohormone is better absorbed

 

[Renew1]

I would think that if there was a magic pancea for oral T, pharma industry would jump on it ....

Contrary to what some people seem to think (who haven't even been around us long enough to know us) .... If it were a Real thing .... The guys on here would've found it a Long Time Ago.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

they don't even try to dress oral T up with stuff like liposomes. Topical test is far more powerful and likewise injections even more so.

Its great if you want to do oral stuff to dip your toes, but just like everyone else has alluded to, it will leave you wanting. and eventually you will probably want more from your expenditures on PEDs.

 

[Smokey8766]

Please just use a injectable, and micro dose it with insulin syringes. Most clinics recommend this. I haven't read this whole thread just giving advise. You should get your testosterone prescribed and ask for it not 8n mct oil. I get mine in sesame

 

[Nac]

OP, how often are you going to dose this? I wonder what the halflife of it might be....

 

[BBiceps]

We do know that for example when oxandrolone is given at 20-40 mg per day for men over 8 weeks, endogenous production is NOT tanked. It decreases slightly, but its still there.

Who’s “we”? and how do “we” know that?

Because I know that my Test level was at 7 on 50mg Anavar in the 7th week. Cholesterol/liver/kidney values was also out of range. Anavar is said to be mild but it’s really not that mild as ppl say. I doubt that 10mg less ed would have impacted me any less.

@Smont Already told you, in the nicest way, that you have a lot to learn and it’s nothing wrong with it, we all been young and naive at one point.