Opinions on running PH "Anavar" stacked with PH "Dianabol"

cw316

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First time post - - -

I've been reading and doing research.

Finally decided to ask a question:

What is your opinion on running the prohormone "Anavar" stacked with "Dianabol"? Is it worth it? How many weeks? Anyone did that before and what did you personally experience?

Thanks! Look forward to learning!
 
TheVenom

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If you're calling them prohormones, you must mean Hi-Tech's stuff. Real Dianabol and Anavar are steroids and much more potent than anything High-Tech has to offer. As long as you're aware of what you're getting and have reasonable expectations for the results of your efforts and the products, it may or may not be worth it. That's subjective.
 

cw316

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If you're calling them prohormones, you must mean Hi-Tech's stuff. Real Dianabol and Anavar are steroids and much more potent than anything High-Tech has to offer. As long as you're aware of what you're getting and have reasonable expectations for the results of your efforts and the products, it may or may not be worth it. That's subjective.
yes sir! I am aware, and you are correct, that’s the company.
 
New guy

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Both are proprietary blends with tons of ingredients and the "prohormones" pretty low on the list. There are legal compounds that will give better results and possibly for less. What are your goals and training level/experience?
 

cw316

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Both are proprietary blends with tons of ingredients and the "prohormones" pretty low on the list. There are legal compounds that will give better results and possibly for less. What are your goals and training level/experience?
Goals: hypertrophy and size right now
Experience: I work at a gym. Been training for a while.
 

ucimigrate

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To me, most supplements at Max Muscle or GNC are bogus. Those hucksters sold me high-tech stuff 20 years ago. Most of it is just junk. Quite simply, it does not work.

As a regular rule, no supplements would be allowed to be sold to the general public, if they were that effective. Once every few years, a supplement maker puts an active ingredient inside that is pharmaceutical strength. For example "Thyroslim" might contain real thyroxine that a company accidentally/deliberately got from their manufacturer in a place like China. But, the results would be dramatic, doctors would report complaints, etc. Then, it would be taken off the market. Look at famous, short-lived supplements such as Halodrol-50 (25 mg Oral Turinabol, 25 mg Madol per pill), etc. They worked, but so short lived.

Many forums will say this, but instead of wasting your money on supplements, you can get the real thing. I have lived abroad in many countries, most will see you Anavar. I know Turkey and Thailand it can be bought at any pharmacy, at the same price GNC, etc. would sell fake "Hi Tech" stuff. Same thing with Dianabol. Unlike Mexico, etc. it would not be counterfeit, etc.

The writer Tom Venuto had some articles about Supplement Myth's Versus Supplement facts. The only over-the-counter supplement worth it, in my opinion, is creatine monohydrate.

For convenience, whey protein or MRP's with Whey protein in them are good, too.
 

cw316

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To me, most supplements at Max Muscle or GNC are bogus. Those hucksters sold me high-tech stuff 20 years ago. Most of it is just junk. Quite simply, it does not work.

As a regular rule, no supplements would be allowed to be sold to the general public, if they were that effective. Once every few years, a supplement maker puts an active ingredient inside that is pharmaceutical strength. For example "Thyroslim" might contain real thyroxine that a company accidentally/deliberately got from their manufacturer in a place like China. But, the results would be dramatic, doctors would report complaints, etc. Then, it would be taken off the market. Look at famous, short-lived supplements such as Halodrol-50 (25 mg Oral Turinabol, 25 mg Madol per pill), etc. They worked, but so short lived.

Many forums will say this, but instead of wasting your money on supplements, you can get the real thing. I have lived abroad in many countries, most will see you Anavar. I know Turkey and Thailand it can be bought at any pharmacy, at the same price GNC, etc. would sell fake "Hi Tech" stuff. Same thing with Dianabol. Unlike Mexico, etc. it would not be counterfeit, etc.

The writer Tom Venuto had some articles about Supplement Myth's Versus Supplement facts. The only over-the-counter supplement worth it, in my opinion, is creatine monohydrate.

For convenience, whey protein or MRP's with Whey protein in them are good, too.
Thanks for your response!

Yeah, basically that is where I am at. Tired on spending all the money with minimal results, even with good training and diet. I’m 36 so fighting a downhill battle.

I decided to do some research then settled on PHs because that was my only option. I don’t know how to do anything else, ya know? It’s one of those cases.
 
New guy

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Thanks for your response!

Yeah, basically that is where I am at. Tired on spending all the money with minimal results, even with good training and diet. I’m 36 so fighting a downhill battle.

I decided to do some research then settled on PHs because that was my only option. I don’t know how to do anything else, ya know? It’s one of those cases.
Stick around a while, do some research and you’ll see some new options popping up, there’s plenty of legal things available. The people on here are helpful and will lead you in the right direction. A single bottle of DMZ will cost less and give 10 times the results of both of those compounds while still being Somewhat “Beginner friendly”. Hexadrone, epi andro, even the properly dosed 1/4 andro products are solid options. Ask plenty of questions and know what you’re doing before you do it and you’ll get the results you want :) good luck brother!
 

cw316

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Stick around a while, do some research and you’ll see some new options popping up, there’s plenty of legal things available. The people on here are helpful and will lead you in the right direction. A single bottle of DMZ will cost less and give 10 times the results of both of those compounds while still being Somewhat “Beginner friendly”. Hexadrone, epi andro, even the properly dosed 1/4 andro products are solid options. Ask plenty of questions and know what you’re doing before you do it and you’ll get the results you want :) good luck brother!
Thanks for the advice!

I’ll keep reading and learning. If you have any other suggestions for first cycles, and recommend a particular DMZ I’d love to hear.
 

cw316

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Stick around a while, do some research and you’ll see some new options popping up, there’s plenty of legal things available. The people on here are helpful and will lead you in the right direction. A single bottle of DMZ will cost less and give 10 times the results of both of those compounds while still being Somewhat “Beginner friendly”. Hexadrone, epi andro, even the properly dosed 1/4 andro products are solid options. Ask plenty of questions and know what you’re doing before you do it and you’ll get the results you want :) good luck brother!
What about BSL Helladrol?

Ingredients:

  • 4 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one
  • 3-hydroxy-17-oxo-5-androstane
  • 17beta-(1-ketoethyl)-Delta-1
  • 4-androstadiene
  • 1,4 androstene-3b-ol, 17-one
  • Androsta-3, 5-diene-7, 17-dione
 
Fly_boy

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Stick around a while, do some research and you’ll see some new options popping up, there’s plenty of legal things available. The people on here are helpful and will lead you in the right direction. A single bottle of DMZ will cost less and give 10 times the results of both of those compounds while still being Somewhat “Beginner friendly”. Hexadrone, epi andro, even the properly dosed 1/4 andro products are solid options. Ask plenty of questions and know what you’re doing before you do it and you’ll get the results you want :) good luck brother!
Good advice.
I try to stay away from anything with proprietary blends. Proper dosing is key to understanding what will work for you. And each compound can have different effects. You would think supplement companies would manufacture proper dosing but they are typically looking to maximize profits, not maximizing your gains.
I’m also 36 and took a 10 year break from PEDs after a couple Halodrol-50 cycles. I’m currently in the middle of a MK-2866 cycle. I’ve learned a lot from these guys on here.
 

ucimigrate

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1. No, no, no...I would stay away from supplement stores entirely. The Max Muscle by my house advertised "Low Price Guarantee" that was absolutely false; if you called them out on it, they would not price match. So much b.s., because supplements are classified as "foods" rather than medicines, hence not subject to scrutiny.

2. If you really are into supplements, look into the following forums:

a. Will Brink...Sports Supplement Review
b. "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" explains supplement companies, etc.
c. Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe, a way to build the most important component, strength with barbell training. Only after that is completed do the rest of these things matter.

3. As far as supplements, I have done hundreds of different ones over the years, and spent over 10,000 USD. Most people hanging out around gyms, etc. do. I am one of the smarter ones, and I still have been duped by so much b.s.

Most bodybuilders, sports enthusiasts, etc. start off and think everything that can help, even 1% can be worth it. Then, they often get discouraged when they see through everything, and think nothing is best.

Hopefully, people find a happy medium.

4. Here is what I can say actually works:

a. Getting a good gym CLOSE TO HOME. There are studies that show the difference between how close it is to your home will determine how often you use it. Better to pay more, for a gym right next door, than a great deal 30 minutes away.

b. Getting a certified personal trainer that can teach you proper form. I have even seen rich people or celebrities without a trainer, and get form wrong. I had one bad day of squats and deadlifts, was injured for two years, lost half my strength and gained fat, all from one bad day. Like good teachers, good trainers are worth their weight in gold.

c. Invest in cooking equipment: Blender, Rice Cooker, Gladware, big refrigerator, George Foreman Grill, Steamer, Boiled Egg Maker, etc.

If you cook food yourself, you will have better body composition naturally. Six meals of homecooked food can be 2000 healthy calories; those same foods such as sandwiches, baked potatoes and salads can have 3000 or 4000 calories, despite taste being the same.

In a retrospective analysis, the best investments ever made were for blenders, microwaves, high quality rice cookers, etc. I am in a temporary apartment for a month, and can feel the difference without a microwave, boiled egg maker, and blender.

5. Once you have nailed down everything else, you can start investing in supplements.

Here is what I can say actually works, is safe (when used in normal doses), and is cost-effective:

a. Whey protein isolate. It beats out concentrate. These days, in the US, online is the best way. Bulk Supplements [dot] com is the best one. All these other proprietary blends, Costco brand, etc. probably knocked down the quality and put fillers in. People saw it with drug markets like heroin and cocaine: purity is hard to find, as people put in fillers to increase quantity and make more money by volume.

b. MRPs: Myoplex is the best marketed, but not the best. All the MRP's I have ever seen are about 40 grams of whey protein + 20 - 30 grams of maltodextrin. Whether the bottle is pretty or not, they are the same. I would buy bargain bin, if I was back in the US. Brands do not mean much, even though EAS, Twinlab, Met-Rx, are popular.

c. Creatine Monohydrate: Will Brink's Creatine Graveyard is the most popular that explains no other creatine product has beat out monohydrate. Other of these innovations may actually be able to compete with monohydrate, but nothing beats entirely.

d. Any sort of stimulant: coffee, ECA stack, etc. all have the same function: increase ergogenic benefit, etc.

Most of these fat burners just use pixie dusting. That means they put the ingredients in parentheses (My Cool Herb, ______ Proprietary Ingredient ...., ...., Caffeine Anhydrous). NoExplode was proabbably the worst offended: 99% caffeine power and creatine monohydrate, probably 20x markup off real value.

e. If you want to get into supplements like andro, etc. DO NOT BUY FROM HEALTH FOOD STORES. Again, nothing they sell actually works as a medicine would. Even batch to batch can be some junk. If something went wrong, there is no way to figure out what you actually bought.

f. You can look on the other forums to see what types of hormonal stuff work. Or you can speak to real doctors. While "Low T" is a coined term and TRT is over-prescribed at least 10x more than people who are truly hypogonadal, surely many clinics will prescribe.

Basically, here are the different ways to increase performance:

- Testosterone replacement therapy: either testosterone cypionate or Androgel. This uses regular testosterone to boost testosterone.

- Alternative medicine people claim "bio-identical testosterone" but there is no real such thing. It is just Testopel. I have spoken to the best scientists in the world. Even if there existed a way to go into your testes, take your individual T, clone it, and put it back in your body, there still would be side effects. The idea that you can get a free ride by taking "bio-identical testosterone" to raise T "naturally" is b.s.

- Anabolic Steroids: testosterone was discovered about 100 years ago. When they first experimented with people, they found the anabolic parts increased strength and muscle mass, while the androgenic parts caused the hairiness, heart problems, etc. As a result, anabolic steroids were created, but each had other side effects not accounted for.

Real Anavar, Oxandrolone: great for muscle wasting. Was used for AIDS patients in the 1980's and 1990's, before HAART helped prevent HIV turning to AIDS, etc. Even 5 mg a day does well. Although side effects happen, not the dramatic changes in blood cholesterol than other orals.

Primobolan Depot - the safest injectable. Does cause some heart side effects, does not easily aromatize to estrogen, does exacerbate existing baldness, etc.

Oral Dianabol was the first, Arnold, etc. all took it in the 1970's: inexpensive, short-half life (fully metabolized within a day), gets in the system quickly, causes aggression and water retention, huge strength gains, etc.

Winstrol: good for sprinters, etc. terrible for heart problems.

Anadrol: probably the most powerful oral. Great for strength and mass gains, terrible for heart gains.

- Growth hormone: great to go in conjunction with testosterone. Again, look at bodybuilders and Growth Gut. When taken more than a few IU's a day, and without a doctor, will cause permanent damage. Look at people with Giganticism.

- SARMS: the newest and best category. SARMS like Ostarine are about 1/10th the potency of testosterone, but have few or maybe even none of the psychological side effects and heart effects. Jim Dalton of UMich is the researcher; he also owns shares in the company that makes Ostarine. Of course, he will crusade to have it being given to older people.

In the US, they are slowly getting banned. Here in China, a chemist can make anything on order, as it is not regulated.

6. Again, whether you are 16, 26 or 36 years old, nail down the basics:

Gym, lifestyle, good trainer, good diet, etc.

Then, work on regular things like protein powder, caffeine, etc. at a good price.

Those things alone may make better gains than 90% of people do.

Then, and only then, look into hormone replacement therapy, etc. You have two options:

a. Go to these "Diet Clinics" where a real MD would prescribe testosterone and growth hormone

b. Go abroad, to Thailand, Turkey, etc. where a doctor can monitor you, and you can buy real testosterone or anabolics from any pharmacy, and have a real doctor monitor you.

Again, when I lived in Turkey, primobolan depot was 4 USD per vial (which could last a week). Real Anavar was 100 USD for 10mg * 100, etc. Same prices in Thailand, etc.

If older Americans are retiring to Thailand, and surgeons can make a boy look like a girl (including with hormones), they can certainly monitor athletes wanting to do these things.

What you do not need is GNC or Max Muscle telling you about a great supplement, which is over priced, and not going to have much effect.
 
Renew1

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Good advice.
I try to stay away from anything with proprietary blends. Proper dosing is key to understanding what will work for you. And each compound can have different effects. You would think supplement companies would manufacture proper dosing but they are typically looking to maximize profits, not maximizing your gains.
I’m also 36 and took a 10 year break from PEDs after a couple Halodrol-50 cycles. I’m currently in the middle of a MK-2866 cycle. I’ve learned a lot from these guys on here.

Amen on the proprietary blends.
If you won't tell me how much of each compound is in your product, I won't buy it or use it.
 

cw316

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1. No, no, no...I would stay away from supplement stores entirely. The Max Muscle by my house advertised "Low Price Guarantee" that was absolutely false; if you called them out on it, they would not price match. So much b.s., because supplements are classified as "foods" rather than medicines, hence not subject to scrutiny.

2. If you really are into supplements, look into the following forums:

a. Will Brink...Sports Supplement Review
b. "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" explains supplement companies, etc.
c. Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe, a way to build the most important component, strength with barbell training. Only after that is completed do the rest of these things matter.

3. As far as supplements, I have done hundreds of different ones over the years, and spent over 10,000 USD. Most people hanging out around gyms, etc. do. I am one of the smarter ones, and I still have been duped by so much b.s.

Most bodybuilders, sports enthusiasts, etc. start off and think everything that can help, even 1% can be worth it. Then, they often get discouraged when they see through everything, and think nothing is best.

Hopefully, people find a happy medium.

4. Here is what I can say actually works:

a. Getting a good gym CLOSE TO HOME. There are studies that show the difference between how close it is to your home will determine how often you use it. Better to pay more, for a gym right next door, than a great deal 30 minutes away.

b. Getting a certified personal trainer that can teach you proper form. I have even seen rich people or celebrities without a trainer, and get form wrong. I had one bad day of squats and deadlifts, was injured for two years, lost half my strength and gained fat, all from one bad day. Like good teachers, good trainers are worth their weight in gold.

c. Invest in cooking equipment: Blender, Rice Cooker, Gladware, big refrigerator, George Foreman Grill, Steamer, Boiled Egg Maker, etc.

If you cook food yourself, you will have better body composition naturally. Six meals of homecooked food can be 2000 healthy calories; those same foods such as sandwiches, baked potatoes and salads can have 3000 or 4000 calories, despite taste being the same.

In a retrospective analysis, the best investments ever made were for blenders, microwaves, high quality rice cookers, etc. I am in a temporary apartment for a month, and can feel the difference without a microwave, boiled egg maker, and blender.

5. Once you have nailed down everything else, you can start investing in supplements.

Here is what I can say actually works, is safe (when used in normal doses), and is cost-effective:

a. Whey protein isolate. It beats out concentrate. These days, in the US, online is the best way. Bulk Supplements [dot] com is the best one. All these other proprietary blends, Costco brand, etc. probably knocked down the quality and put fillers in. People saw it with drug markets like heroin and cocaine: purity is hard to find, as people put in fillers to increase quantity and make more money by volume.

b. MRPs: Myoplex is the best marketed, but not the best. All the MRP's I have ever seen are about 40 grams of whey protein + 20 - 30 grams of maltodextrin. Whether the bottle is pretty or not, they are the same. I would buy bargain bin, if I was back in the US. Brands do not mean much, even though EAS, Twinlab, Met-Rx, are popular.

c. Creatine Monohydrate: Will Brink's Creatine Graveyard is the most popular that explains no other creatine product has beat out monohydrate. Other of these innovations may actually be able to compete with monohydrate, but nothing beats entirely.

d. Any sort of stimulant: coffee, ECA stack, etc. all have the same function: increase ergogenic benefit, etc.

Most of these fat burners just use pixie dusting. That means they put the ingredients in parentheses (My Cool Herb, ______ Proprietary Ingredient ...., ...., Caffeine Anhydrous). NoExplode was proabbably the worst offended: 99% caffeine power and creatine monohydrate, probably 20x markup off real value.

e. If you want to get into supplements like andro, etc. DO NOT BUY FROM HEALTH FOOD STORES. Again, nothing they sell actually works as a medicine would. Even batch to batch can be some junk. If something went wrong, there is no way to figure out what you actually bought.

f. You can look on the other forums to see what types of hormonal stuff work. Or you can speak to real doctors. While "Low T" is a coined term and TRT is over-prescribed at least 10x more than people who are truly hypogonadal, surely many clinics will prescribe.

Basically, here are the different ways to increase performance:

- Testosterone replacement therapy: either testosterone cypionate or Androgel. This uses regular testosterone to boost testosterone.

- Alternative medicine people claim "bio-identical testosterone" but there is no real such thing. It is just Testopel. I have spoken to the best scientists in the world. Even if there existed a way to go into your testes, take your individual T, clone it, and put it back in your body, there still would be side effects. The idea that you can get a free ride by taking "bio-identical testosterone" to raise T "naturally" is b.s.

- Anabolic Steroids: testosterone was discovered about 100 years ago. When they first experimented with people, they found the anabolic parts increased strength and muscle mass, while the androgenic parts caused the hairiness, heart problems, etc. As a result, anabolic steroids were created, but each had other side effects not accounted for.

Real Anavar, Oxandrolone: great for muscle wasting. Was used for AIDS patients in the 1980's and 1990's, before HAART helped prevent HIV turning to AIDS, etc. Even 5 mg a day does well. Although side effects happen, not the dramatic changes in blood cholesterol than other orals.

Primobolan Depot - the safest injectable. Does cause some heart side effects, does not easily aromatize to estrogen, does exacerbate existing baldness, etc.

Oral Dianabol was the first, Arnold, etc. all took it in the 1970's: inexpensive, short-half life (fully metabolized within a day), gets in the system quickly, causes aggression and water retention, huge strength gains, etc.

Winstrol: good for sprinters, etc. terrible for heart problems.

Anadrol: probably the most powerful oral. Great for strength and mass gains, terrible for heart gains.

- Growth hormone: great to go in conjunction with testosterone. Again, look at bodybuilders and Growth Gut. When taken more than a few IU's a day, and without a doctor, will cause permanent damage. Look at people with Giganticism.

- SARMS: the newest and best category. SARMS like Ostarine are about 1/10th the potency of testosterone, but have few or maybe even none of the psychological side effects and heart effects. Jim Dalton of UMich is the researcher; he also owns shares in the company that makes Ostarine. Of course, he will crusade to have it being given to older people.

In the US, they are slowly getting banned. Here in China, a chemist can make anything on order, as it is not regulated.

6. Again, whether you are 16, 26 or 36 years old, nail down the basics:

Gym, lifestyle, good trainer, good diet, etc.

Then, work on regular things like protein powder, caffeine, etc. at a good price.

Those things alone may make better gains than 90% of people do.

Then, and only then, look into hormone replacement therapy, etc. You have two options:

a. Go to these "Diet Clinics" where a real MD would prescribe testosterone and growth hormone

b. Go abroad, to Thailand, Turkey, etc. where a doctor can monitor you, and you can buy real testosterone or anabolics from any pharmacy, and have a real doctor monitor you.

Again, when I lived in Turkey, primobolan depot was 4 USD per vial (which could last a week). Real Anavar was 100 USD for 10mg * 100, etc. Same prices in Thailand, etc.

If older Americans are retiring to Thailand, and surgeons can make a boy look like a girl (including with hormones), they can certainly monitor athletes wanting to do these things.

What you do not need is GNC or Max Muscle telling you about a great supplement, which is over priced, and not going to have much effect.
I appreciate everything you said.

I work at a gym, am a trainer and have been at it for a while.

Like you said, I’m tired of spending hundreds of dollars on supplements that don’t work or work very minimally. So, I wanted to look into prohormones, but they can be costly as well, but may the return on investment is better than all the mass marketed supplements combined.

If I could find one or two prohormones that actually work and figure out a cycle plan that works then I’d be happy.
 

cw316

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1. No, no, no...I would stay away from supplement stores entirely. The Max Muscle by my house advertised "Low Price Guarantee" that was absolutely false; if you called them out on it, they would not price match. So much b.s., because supplements are classified as "foods" rather than medicines, hence not subject to scrutiny.

2. If you really are into supplements, look into the following forums:

a. Will Brink...Sports Supplement Review
b. "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" explains supplement companies, etc.
c. Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe, a way to build the most important component, strength with barbell training. Only after that is completed do the rest of these things matter.

3. As far as supplements, I have done hundreds of different ones over the years, and spent over 10,000 USD. Most people hanging out around gyms, etc. do. I am one of the smarter ones, and I still have been duped by so much b.s.

Most bodybuilders, sports enthusiasts, etc. start off and think everything that can help, even 1% can be worth it. Then, they often get discouraged when they see through everything, and think nothing is best.

Hopefully, people find a happy medium.

4. Here is what I can say actually works:

a. Getting a good gym CLOSE TO HOME. There are studies that show the difference between how close it is to your home will determine how often you use it. Better to pay more, for a gym right next door, than a great deal 30 minutes away.

b. Getting a certified personal trainer that can teach you proper form. I have even seen rich people or celebrities without a trainer, and get form wrong. I had one bad day of squats and deadlifts, was injured for two years, lost half my strength and gained fat, all from one bad day. Like good teachers, good trainers are worth their weight in gold.

c. Invest in cooking equipment: Blender, Rice Cooker, Gladware, big refrigerator, George Foreman Grill, Steamer, Boiled Egg Maker, etc.

If you cook food yourself, you will have better body composition naturally. Six meals of homecooked food can be 2000 healthy calories; those same foods such as sandwiches, baked potatoes and salads can have 3000 or 4000 calories, despite taste being the same.

In a retrospective analysis, the best investments ever made were for blenders, microwaves, high quality rice cookers, etc. I am in a temporary apartment for a month, and can feel the difference without a microwave, boiled egg maker, and blender.

5. Once you have nailed down everything else, you can start investing in supplements.

Here is what I can say actually works, is safe (when used in normal doses), and is cost-effective:

a. Whey protein isolate. It beats out concentrate. These days, in the US, online is the best way. Bulk Supplements [dot] com is the best one. All these other proprietary blends, Costco brand, etc. probably knocked down the quality and put fillers in. People saw it with drug markets like heroin and cocaine: purity is hard to find, as people put in fillers to increase quantity and make more money by volume.

b. MRPs: Myoplex is the best marketed, but not the best. All the MRP's I have ever seen are about 40 grams of whey protein + 20 - 30 grams of maltodextrin. Whether the bottle is pretty or not, they are the same. I would buy bargain bin, if I was back in the US. Brands do not mean much, even though EAS, Twinlab, Met-Rx, are popular.

c. Creatine Monohydrate: Will Brink's Creatine Graveyard is the most popular that explains no other creatine product has beat out monohydrate. Other of these innovations may actually be able to compete with monohydrate, but nothing beats entirely.

d. Any sort of stimulant: coffee, ECA stack, etc. all have the same function: increase ergogenic benefit, etc.

Most of these fat burners just use pixie dusting. That means they put the ingredients in parentheses (My Cool Herb, ______ Proprietary Ingredient ...., ...., Caffeine Anhydrous). NoExplode was proabbably the worst offended: 99% caffeine power and creatine monohydrate, probably 20x markup off real value.

e. If you want to get into supplements like andro, etc. DO NOT BUY FROM HEALTH FOOD STORES. Again, nothing they sell actually works as a medicine would. Even batch to batch can be some junk. If something went wrong, there is no way to figure out what you actually bought.

f. You can look on the other forums to see what types of hormonal stuff work. Or you can speak to real doctors. While "Low T" is a coined term and TRT is over-prescribed at least 10x more than people who are truly hypogonadal, surely many clinics will prescribe.

Basically, here are the different ways to increase performance:

- Testosterone replacement therapy: either testosterone cypionate or Androgel. This uses regular testosterone to boost testosterone.

- Alternative medicine people claim "bio-identical testosterone" but there is no real such thing. It is just Testopel. I have spoken to the best scientists in the world. Even if there existed a way to go into your testes, take your individual T, clone it, and put it back in your body, there still would be side effects. The idea that you can get a free ride by taking "bio-identical testosterone" to raise T "naturally" is b.s.

- Anabolic Steroids: testosterone was discovered about 100 years ago. When they first experimented with people, they found the anabolic parts increased strength and muscle mass, while the androgenic parts caused the hairiness, heart problems, etc. As a result, anabolic steroids were created, but each had other side effects not accounted for.

Real Anavar, Oxandrolone: great for muscle wasting. Was used for AIDS patients in the 1980's and 1990's, before HAART helped prevent HIV turning to AIDS, etc. Even 5 mg a day does well. Although side effects happen, not the dramatic changes in blood cholesterol than other orals.

Primobolan Depot - the safest injectable. Does cause some heart side effects, does not easily aromatize to estrogen, does exacerbate existing baldness, etc.

Oral Dianabol was the first, Arnold, etc. all took it in the 1970's: inexpensive, short-half life (fully metabolized within a day), gets in the system quickly, causes aggression and water retention, huge strength gains, etc.

Winstrol: good for sprinters, etc. terrible for heart problems.

Anadrol: probably the most powerful oral. Great for strength and mass gains, terrible for heart gains.

- Growth hormone: great to go in conjunction with testosterone. Again, look at bodybuilders and Growth Gut. When taken more than a few IU's a day, and without a doctor, will cause permanent damage. Look at people with Giganticism.

- SARMS: the newest and best category. SARMS like Ostarine are about 1/10th the potency of testosterone, but have few or maybe even none of the psychological side effects and heart effects. Jim Dalton of UMich is the researcher; he also owns shares in the company that makes Ostarine. Of course, he will crusade to have it being given to older people.

In the US, they are slowly getting banned. Here in China, a chemist can make anything on order, as it is not regulated.

6. Again, whether you are 16, 26 or 36 years old, nail down the basics:

Gym, lifestyle, good trainer, good diet, etc.

Then, work on regular things like protein powder, caffeine, etc. at a good price.

Those things alone may make better gains than 90% of people do.

Then, and only then, look into hormone replacement therapy, etc. You have two options:

a. Go to these "Diet Clinics" where a real MD would prescribe testosterone and growth hormone

b. Go abroad, to Thailand, Turkey, etc. where a doctor can monitor you, and you can buy real testosterone or anabolics from any pharmacy, and have a real doctor monitor you.

Again, when I lived in Turkey, primobolan depot was 4 USD per vial (which could last a week). Real Anavar was 100 USD for 10mg * 100, etc. Same prices in Thailand, etc.

If older Americans are retiring to Thailand, and surgeons can make a boy look like a girl (including with hormones), they can certainly monitor athletes wanting to do these things.

What you do not need is GNC or Max Muscle telling you about a great supplement, which is over priced, and not going to have much effect.
Also, are SARMS really much safer than PHs?
 
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Fly_boy

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Also, are SARMS really much safer than PHs?
Any exogenous androgens, including SARMs, will have risks and side effects. I would not say they are “safer” but there is some research and opinion that SARMs MAY have less side effects.
 
Whisky

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Also, are SARMS really much safer than PHs?
not been around long enough for us to really know imo.

they ‘may’ be but personally I prefer test (or other aas) that have been around years and where we know how to manage the sides do occur.

with sensible doses and proper supports imo you can mitigate most of the risk from aas. Now that’s not be saying it’s risk free, just that we can make it low risk. Plus you never see people dropping dead from anything other than massive steroid abuse for many many years (and even then normally other lifestyle factors contribute).

I agree with most of what’s already been said above btw, stay away from hi tech, them boys take the piss with the product names. The thing they call it is the only thing you know it isn’t 😂

if your happy to pin then test only at 350-500mg a week Is always a good idea to get a baseline on how you respond. Whether you need an ai and what dose etc

main piece of advice from me is get bloods drawn (full panel) before you take anything at all - that will tell you your baseline and you’ll be able to see if your recovering to the same levels or not. You only get one chance to do that
 

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If i was doing it again and if i was going for test only as my 1st (like id did, even thpugh now i think stacking the same mg's is superior both in terms of gains and sides) i would start with 350mg and increase to 500mg at week 5-6, that way i wouldnt stall like i did i suppose.

And i wouldnt go for more than 10 weeks. Basically no gains post week 8 for me, but ok, 10 weeks to be cure we milked everything.

I would personally stop after 8 weeks but others may gain for up to 10 weeks.
 
thebigt

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i would look at iconic formulations black series....there are logs and reviews on all of them here at this forum...

best of all they are all 100% LEGAL
 
StarScream66

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That Anavar and Dianabol from Hi-Tech are both fake. If you want to run legit from them, run their 1-AD or 1-testosterone product which is 1-DHEA. They also have a good product called 1,4-DHEA (Equipoise I think is the brand name), but it's hard to find and they can't seem to keep it in stock.
 

cw316

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That Anavar and Dianabol from Hi-Tech are both fake. If you want to run legit from them, run their 1-AD or 1-testosterone product which is 1-DHEA. They also have a good product called 1,4-DHEA (Equipoise I think is the brand name), but it's hard to find and they can't seem to keep it in stock.
Thanks you!
 

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I’ve personally never used a hi-tech Product and Probably never will. The whole thing labeling their products “Anavar” “deca” etc. etc. prop blends, underdosed, and sold at a premium is lame as hell IMO. There are many better options.
 
brofessorx

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I will tell you this, and it holds true for anything you take. Be it injectable, oral, pro hormones, sarms, designer steroids whatever the latest bro craze is.

More Gains, More Sides. Nothings is Free. You’re going to pay either with money, your body, or both if you’re a baller.
 

Srr1000

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I will tell you this, and it holds true for anything you take. Be it injectable, oral, pro hormones, sarms, designer steroids whatever the latest bro craze is.

More Gains, More Sides. Nothings is Free. You’re going to pay either with money, your body, or both if you’re a baller.
You know how the old saying goes. “What ever PED you’re running. Always make sure to wash it all down with a whole bottle of warm Robitussin”. Me? I like it pre workout while I warm up on the treadmill. 👌
 
StarScream66

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You know how the old saying goes. “What ever PED you’re running. Always make sure to wash it all down with a whole bottle of warm Robitussin”. Me? I like it pre workout while I warm up on the treadmill. 👌
That reminds me of this old clip from SNL

 

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